Silicone sealant instead of liquid electrical tape?

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Author Topic:   Silicone sealant instead of liquid electrical tape?

ShrimpBurrito posted 07-17-2003 03:29 PM ET (US)
I'm installing a set of LED lights on my trailer (Chuck - I found some with a license plate light), and am sealing up my soldered connections. I thought using some silicone sealant might be easier to use, wth perhaps better performance, than using liquid electrical tape. The tape drips and typically requires multiple coats, with a fair amount of drying time in between coats.
Since LED's are such low current, I'm thinking it should be perfect.
What do you guys think? Thanks!
tomroe posted 07-17-2003 03:37 PM ET (US)
If you haven't done the job yet, then use heat shrink tubing. Buy the stuff with the sealant in it and shrink it with a heat gun (not a torch) and it will be sealed forever. It's neater than silicone and more abrasion resistant than liquid tape.
Samars posted 07-17-2003 04:04 PM ET (US)

I aggree...get some heat shrinking tube...does a good job. It comes in different lengths and thicknesses.
ShrimpBurrito posted 07-17-2003 04:09 PM ET (US)
Thanks for the responses, guys. Unfortunately, I've already soldered the connections, and don't have a heat gun (or shrink tubing for that matter). I could cut and resolder, and get a gun and tubing, but if silicone will work just as well, I'd prefer to do that.
triblet posted 07-17-2003 04:32 PM ET (US)
You (or your SO) probably do have a heat gun. It's called a
hair dryer. It's slower than a real heat gun but works.
The glue lined heat shrink works much better. You can get it
at West or whereever.
Who made the LED lights with license plate light?

Chuck
JDH posted 07-17-2003 04:45 PM ET (US)
Don't use silicone - too acidic.
When I use the heat shrink, I also add a layer of dielectric grease - don't use it with the adhesive stuff...
Jim
Capt_Tidy posted 07-17-2003 05:25 PM ET (US)
I have made that mistake and used a little quick set epoxy to isolate the joints - easy enough to mix in a plastic beer cup and use.
I have sucessfully changed all the light on my boat (sail and whaler) to leds... $ but worth it. All the light on my 36 footer now draws about 1 amp/hour when on.
Under the console of this 15 'm workign on, I added a couple of cheap LED from a trailer shop - it glows red but will work perfect to look around for my pocket chnage at night... low seats and 2 foot chop is better than most fair rides for loose change.
cheers
Ian
ShrimpBurrito posted 07-17-2003 05:45 PM ET (US)
Does the acid eat at the insulation? I assume it doesn't do anything to the solder.
ShrimpBurrito posted 07-17-2003 05:49 PM ET (US)
Chuck - The LED's are made by Seasense http://www.unifiedmarine.com/cgi-bin/start.cgi/web2001/seasense/catalog_index.html , and come in a kit of 2 tail lights for ~$50 at West Marine. There's a set of white LED's that shine down on the license plate, but I haven't turned them on yet. The amber clearance lights are ~$9/each. The lights have stainless steel posts, and according to a rep at the company, the wire included in the kit is tinned.
tomroe posted 07-17-2003 07:10 PM ET (US)
I would cut the solder joints, go to Radio Shack and get some uninsulated seamless butt connectors and heat shrink and do it over. I guarantee it will take less time than redoing it next year......OK, maybe that sounded a little too opinionated but I think you will be happier with the result in years to come.
HAPPYJIM posted 07-17-2003 07:27 PM ET (US)
I don't think you should use silicon sealer on any electrical connection.
I remember my instructor explaining while attending electrican school 30 some years ago.
If I can remember right, It has low di-electric strenth and it is corrosive to wiring or terminal strips.
What ever it was, don't use it.
The shrink wrap with the sealant is the way to go.
jimh posted 07-17-2003 09:59 PM ET (US)
Most of the silicon compounds seem to leech acetic acid. That is bad for things electrical.
Scotch 33+ Electrical tape works rather well for sealing up wire-to-wire connections.
peetmin posted 07-18-2003 12:03 AM ET (US)
I agree with tomroe, I think I woud call the first try practice. I've had great results useing an insulated butt splice sized correctly for the wire to be spliced. My only addition is to squeeze "deox" inside the butt splice before I crimping. Water is not able to get to the wire this way.
dboy posted 07-18-2003 05:57 AM ET (US)
I've used silicone before, no good as it is a conductor. Those connectors made by Ancor are the best. Crimp and heat and the goo comes out around your wires and sealed for good.
tomroe posted 07-18-2003 06:55 AM ET (US)
Silicone is too messy in my opinion for sealing wires as well as the acetic acid (never knew that).
My reason for using uninsulated crimp connectors is that you don't need the nylon (or vinyl) insulation if you are using heat shrink. Saves bulk and cost.
The Ancor (or T&B, AMP, etc.) connectors with the heat shrink already on and ready to go are great, but you are paying someone else to do half the job for you. Again, the bulk and cost issue.
The 'deox' or anti-oxidant is a good idea, there is a product that is a copper based anti-sieze that goes under various brand names that works well too.
Jimh - I agree that Scotch 33+ is good tape, but not in a marine environment. Prolonged exposure to water, oil and gas turns the adhesive into goo (for lack of a better word).
jameso posted 07-18-2003 09:00 AM ET (US)
RTV (Room Temperature Vulcanizing) silicones contain Acetic Acid, thats why they smell like vinegar. The Air Force spent several millions of dollars in the 70's replacing wiring and components that were potted with RTV. Some of the newer and non RTV silicones do not contain enough acid to harm the wiring. I would stick with the liquid tape or heat shrink.
Jim Armstrong
ShrimpBurrito posted 07-18-2003 09:42 AM ET (US)
Thanks for all the ideas, folks. I'm glad I asked because I was ready to slap the silicone on there. Learn something new every day. I just did a little checking online, and Loctite (at least) makes some silicone sealants that excrete alcohol, instead of acetic acid, which they say makes them ideal for an electrical environment.
peetmin posted 07-20-2003 09:40 AM ET (US)
Tomroe-The copper based product you make reference to goes by several differnt trade names. The one that I have used is called "Copper Shield".This, in my experience is usally specified by government agencies and is typically applied to the threads and coupleings on rigid threaded conduit.

The idea with the Copper shield was to protect the connection between the threaded end of the pipe and the coupleing from corrosion when the pipe is to be burried in the ground for years.
The Nation Electrical Code allows the conduit to be used as the equipment ground. Installers in a cost savings effort would not pull a ground wire with their branch circuits, useing the conduit as the ground.
Over the coarse of years the threaded area of the pipe became the "weak link" where the galvanizing failed first and rust began. Once the ground was broken due to the corrosion the system needed to be repaired or replaced. Copper shield added years of service to these types of systems.
I remember as an apprentice electrician being led to thousands of feet of pipe with a tooth brush in hand and a box of 4 or 5 one gallon cans of Copper Shield. I am glad I'm not an apprentice anymore.
I personally would avoid the bringing the Copper Shield on board when joining conductors and stick to the "Deox". The Deox is much easier to apply. Not to mention not near the mess associated with the CS.
In regard to the heat shrink vs insulated butt splice I understand the point you make in "paying someone else to do half the work" To me there is definitely some value in not having to pull out a heat gun and extension cord to connect two wires together.
My last observation is with Electricians as well as Whaler owners you can give five differnt people the same task and they will usally find five differnt ways to accomplish the same thing. Most of the time all five methods work fine...Regards, pb
tomroe posted 07-21-2003 10:18 AM ET (US)
peetmin - I think your last observation is very true, most of this is personal preference. I just know what has worked for me.
I would like to clarify a couple of points. When I spoke of paying someone to do half the work, I was refering to the butt connectors that already have heat shrink applied to the connector, they are convenient but expensive.
The 'deox' type anti-oxidant greases are made primarily for aluminum connections to prevent the formation of aluminum oxide. However, I agree that in the applcations we are talking about it works just as well as copper shield. Copper shield is messy and sticks like death to anything it touches, but it is a conductive anti-sieze and that's why I like it. It goes on every battery terminal I own.
Really not trying to nit pick here, just passing on information learned from keeping various cars, trucks, boats, trailers and construction equipment opersting.

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Author	Topic: Silicone sealant instead of liquid electrical tape?
ShrimpBurrito	posted 07-17-2003 03:29 PM ET (US) I'm installing a set of LED lights on my trailer (Chuck - I found some with a license plate light), and am sealing up my soldered connections. I thought using some silicone sealant might be easier to use, wth perhaps better performance, than using liquid electrical tape. The tape drips and typically requires multiple coats, with a fair amount of drying time in between coats. Since LED's are such low current, I'm thinking it should be perfect. What do you guys think? Thanks!
tomroe	posted 07-17-2003 03:37 PM ET (US) If you haven't done the job yet, then use heat shrink tubing. Buy the stuff with the sealant in it and shrink it with a heat gun (not a torch) and it will be sealed forever. It's neater than silicone and more abrasion resistant than liquid tape.
Samars	posted 07-17-2003 04:04 PM ET (US) I aggree...get some heat shrinking tube...does a good job. It comes in different lengths and thicknesses.
ShrimpBurrito	posted 07-17-2003 04:09 PM ET (US) Thanks for the responses, guys. Unfortunately, I've already soldered the connections, and don't have a heat gun (or shrink tubing for that matter). I could cut and resolder, and get a gun and tubing, but if silicone will work just as well, I'd prefer to do that.
triblet	posted 07-17-2003 04:32 PM ET (US) You (or your SO) probably do have a heat gun. It's called a hair dryer. It's slower than a real heat gun but works. The glue lined heat shrink works much better. You can get it at West or whereever. Who made the LED lights with license plate light? Chuck
JDH	posted 07-17-2003 04:45 PM ET (US) Don't use silicone - too acidic. When I use the heat shrink, I also add a layer of dielectric grease - don't use it with the adhesive stuff... Jim
Capt_Tidy	posted 07-17-2003 05:25 PM ET (US) I have made that mistake and used a little quick set epoxy to isolate the joints - easy enough to mix in a plastic beer cup and use. I have sucessfully changed all the light on my boat (sail and whaler) to leds... $ but worth it. All the light on my 36 footer now draws about 1 amp/hour when on. Under the console of this 15 'm workign on, I added a couple of cheap LED from a trailer shop - it glows red but will work perfect to look around for my pocket chnage at night... low seats and 2 foot chop is better than most fair rides for loose change. cheers Ian
ShrimpBurrito	posted 07-17-2003 05:45 PM ET (US) Does the acid eat at the insulation? I assume it doesn't do anything to the solder.
ShrimpBurrito	posted 07-17-2003 05:49 PM ET (US) Chuck - The LED's are made by Seasense http://www.unifiedmarine.com/cgi-bin/start.cgi/web2001/seasense/catalog_index.html , and come in a kit of 2 tail lights for ~$50 at West Marine. There's a set of white LED's that shine down on the license plate, but I haven't turned them on yet. The amber clearance lights are ~$9/each. The lights have stainless steel posts, and according to a rep at the company, the wire included in the kit is tinned.
tomroe	posted 07-17-2003 07:10 PM ET (US) I would cut the solder joints, go to Radio Shack and get some uninsulated seamless butt connectors and heat shrink and do it over. I guarantee it will take less time than redoing it next year......OK, maybe that sounded a little too opinionated but I think you will be happier with the result in years to come.
HAPPYJIM	posted 07-17-2003 07:27 PM ET (US) I don't think you should use silicon sealer on any electrical connection. I remember my instructor explaining while attending electrican school 30 some years ago. If I can remember right, It has low di-electric strenth and it is corrosive to wiring or terminal strips. What ever it was, don't use it. The shrink wrap with the sealant is the way to go.
jimh	posted 07-17-2003 09:59 PM ET (US) Most of the silicon compounds seem to leech acetic acid. That is bad for things electrical. Scotch 33+ Electrical tape works rather well for sealing up wire-to-wire connections.
peetmin	posted 07-18-2003 12:03 AM ET (US) I agree with tomroe, I think I woud call the first try practice. I've had great results useing an insulated butt splice sized correctly for the wire to be spliced. My only addition is to squeeze "deox" inside the butt splice before I crimping. Water is not able to get to the wire this way.
dboy	posted 07-18-2003 05:57 AM ET (US) I've used silicone before, no good as it is a conductor. Those connectors made by Ancor are the best. Crimp and heat and the goo comes out around your wires and sealed for good.
tomroe	posted 07-18-2003 06:55 AM ET (US) Silicone is too messy in my opinion for sealing wires as well as the acetic acid (never knew that). My reason for using uninsulated crimp connectors is that you don't need the nylon (or vinyl) insulation if you are using heat shrink. Saves bulk and cost. The Ancor (or T&B, AMP, etc.) connectors with the heat shrink already on and ready to go are great, but you are paying someone else to do half the job for you. Again, the bulk and cost issue. The 'deox' or anti-oxidant is a good idea, there is a product that is a copper based anti-sieze that goes under various brand names that works well too. Jimh - I agree that Scotch 33+ is good tape, but not in a marine environment. Prolonged exposure to water, oil and gas turns the adhesive into goo (for lack of a better word).
jameso	posted 07-18-2003 09:00 AM ET (US) RTV (Room Temperature Vulcanizing) silicones contain Acetic Acid, thats why they smell like vinegar. The Air Force spent several millions of dollars in the 70's replacing wiring and components that were potted with RTV. Some of the newer and non RTV silicones do not contain enough acid to harm the wiring. I would stick with the liquid tape or heat shrink. Jim Armstrong
ShrimpBurrito	posted 07-18-2003 09:42 AM ET (US) Thanks for all the ideas, folks. I'm glad I asked because I was ready to slap the silicone on there. Learn something new every day. I just did a little checking online, and Loctite (at least) makes some silicone sealants that excrete alcohol, instead of acetic acid, which they say makes them ideal for an electrical environment.
peetmin	posted 07-20-2003 09:40 AM ET (US) Tomroe-The copper based product you make reference to goes by several differnt trade names. The one that I have used is called "Copper Shield".This, in my experience is usally specified by government agencies and is typically applied to the threads and coupleings on rigid threaded conduit. The idea with the Copper shield was to protect the connection between the threaded end of the pipe and the coupleing from corrosion when the pipe is to be burried in the ground for years. The Nation Electrical Code allows the conduit to be used as the equipment ground. Installers in a cost savings effort would not pull a ground wire with their branch circuits, useing the conduit as the ground. Over the coarse of years the threaded area of the pipe became the "weak link" where the galvanizing failed first and rust began. Once the ground was broken due to the corrosion the system needed to be repaired or replaced. Copper shield added years of service to these types of systems. I remember as an apprentice electrician being led to thousands of feet of pipe with a tooth brush in hand and a box of 4 or 5 one gallon cans of Copper Shield. I am glad I'm not an apprentice anymore. I personally would avoid the bringing the Copper Shield on board when joining conductors and stick to the "Deox". The Deox is much easier to apply. Not to mention not near the mess associated with the CS. In regard to the heat shrink vs insulated butt splice I understand the point you make in "paying someone else to do half the work" To me there is definitely some value in not having to pull out a heat gun and extension cord to connect two wires together. My last observation is with Electricians as well as Whaler owners you can give five differnt people the same task and they will usally find five differnt ways to accomplish the same thing. Most of the time all five methods work fine...Regards, pb
tomroe	posted 07-21-2003 10:18 AM ET (US) peetmin - I think your last observation is very true, most of this is personal preference. I just know what has worked for me. I would like to clarify a couple of points. When I spoke of paying someone to do half the work, I was refering to the butt connectors that already have heat shrink applied to the connector, they are convenient but expensive. The 'deox' type anti-oxidant greases are made primarily for aluminum connections to prevent the formation of aluminum oxide. However, I agree that in the applcations we are talking about it works just as well as copper shield. Copper shield is messy and sticks like death to anything it touches, but it is a conductive anti-sieze and that's why I like it. It goes on every battery terminal I own. Really not trying to nit pick here, just passing on information learned from keeping various cars, trucks, boats, trailers and construction equipment opersting.