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Author Topic:   paint or gel coat?

tgrobson posted 08-05-2003 08:18 PM ET (US)
I recently purchased a 22' outrage, and would like to refinish the hull. After scanning several posts, it looks like painting the hull rather than gel coat might be the way to go.
I am definately on a tight budget, and would like to try to do the work myself, but don't have any real experience.
I would appreciate comments from ya'lls experience.
Am I crazy to be even contemplating this?????
P.S. This will be my third whaler, so I do have an appreciation of what I am working with!
timbaho posted 08-06-2003 11:13 AM ET (US)
tgrobson,
Having freshly refinished a 20' Guardian, let me make a few suggestions that will help you benefit from my mistakes. I also was on a tight budget and did all I could myself to help keep costs down. Do Not Cut Any Corners on your prep-work. The slightest imperfection that you may notice during prep will show up like a sore thumb after the finish coat. You cannot overprep your boat to receive the finish you choose. I used Awlgrip and I'm very happy with the results. I recommend that you let a local body shop with the proper equipment, environment, and hopefully knowledge to apply your finish coat. Once you've done the prep work and taped it up, the expensive and difficult part is done with and you damn sure don't want to have to do it all over again because of a screwed up finish coat! I recommend a final VERY THOROUGH sanding of 100% of the hull with a minimum of atleast 220 grit on an orbital sander. If you choose the Awlgrip marine finish, there is an application manual that you need to insist your applier reads. This stuff IS NOT your run-of-the-mill polyurethane. It's thicker and designed for marine use thu making it more difficult to apply than others. GOOD LUCK! Kevin
timbaho posted 08-06-2003 11:19 AM ET (US)
I just re-read my rambling but informative post and need to clarify some things. The final sanding I was referencing is, of couse, before the sraying begins. Any marine-grade body filler will work for your larger dings and scrapes but you will need some marine-grade filler with no fiber in it for your small blemishes. Kevin
alkar posted 08-06-2003 04:31 PM ET (US)
I second the above. Prep thoroughly, tape using the correct tape (3M tape used for this sort of application), and have the boat professionally painted with Awlgrip - not some brand X paint. I'd have it sprayed by an outfit that is used to working with Awlgrip.
tgrobson posted 08-07-2003 01:40 PM ET (US)
Thanks for the input! I'll benefit from your experience and probably have a professional do the spraying.
If you don't mind sharing, what was the cost incurred?
Thanks,
Tom
tgrobson
whalersailer posted 08-07-2003 01:57 PM ET (US)
I absolutely agree with the sentiment here about using Awlgrip. It is the most difficult paint to apply, but the results and longevity are the best! We applied it to my 40' sailboat (I did the prep, and my friend who shoots it for a living did the application), and the results are stunning!
I shopped the paint pretty hard, and the cheapest (and easiest) place to buy it is: pyacht.com. It is $44/qt for whites, and you can order it directly online. The next cheapest place I could find it was about $66/qt, and I had to deal with the special orders department to get the stuff.
Hope this helps!
-WS
SpeedBump posted 08-07-2003 02:53 PM ET (US)
I painted my classic 13 @ five years ago. As already mentioned prep is the key to a great finish. Sand, sand and sand again with finer grits of paper. Use a painting system with matched barrier coats, undercoaters, primers, and top coats. Lots of residue washdowns are a must. You'll spend more $ on sandpaper and surface washe than you can believe so buy in bulk. Use a spray application for the finest finish and if possible have it professionally applied.
It doesn't pay to chinch on the paint product. I used Interlux two-part poly urethane after pricing the awlgrip products.. While half the price you get what you pay for in paints and it was a mistake. The interlux product was good for the topsides but not the cockpit sole.. It was wearing through the nonskid surface after two seasons. should have spent the extra money for the Awlgrip.
I did all the work and sprayed the hull myself using an HVLP system. The finish looked beautiful the product was not as durable as I had hoped for.
Go w/ Awlgrip
DIVE 1 posted 08-07-2003 08:22 PM ET (US)
We had DIVE1 professionally sprayed in 1995 using PPG Concept paint. There was a lot of heavy damage and fiberglass repair work prior to painting. The hull was upside down on the trailer. This made it easier but we still had 1000 hours of work prior to painting. We had the painter preview our prep work on the hull several times prior to painting. Great prep work is the key to a great paint job. We spent approx. $320.00 for painting products, this does not include fiberglass work. Today, the hull still looks good and shines nicely. I would recommend Concept, Imron, or Awlgrip for hull paints.
Jim
tgrobson posted 08-08-2003 10:45 AM ET (US)
Thanks dive 1. I've seen the pictures of your finished product, and your boat is an inspiration. In particular, I think your use of the line x is really a great touch as well.
Thanks for the reply
DIVE 1 posted 08-08-2003 08:17 PM ET (US)
Tom,
The interior is actually gelcoat. All of the interior repairs were completed and then it was sanded with 80 grit sandpaper. After a thorough cleaning, 1 coat of gelcoat was sprayed inside with no wax additive. We then added wax to the gelcoat and turned down the air pressure to make the spray gun spit the gelcoat. The result was a complete non-skid interior. The nice part is that it is easy to touch up by blotting gelcoat with a paintbrush.
Jim
alkar posted 08-10-2003 01:58 AM ET (US)
I used the Line-X and I love it. It is showing no signs of wear.
I didn't know enough about gel coat to think about doing the sort of ingenius stuff Jim did. It might have saved me some money, although I feel good about the choice we made.
And yes, Jim's boat has been an inspiration - for many of us :-)

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Author	Topic: paint or gel coat?
tgrobson	posted 08-05-2003 08:18 PM ET (US) I recently purchased a 22' outrage, and would like to refinish the hull. After scanning several posts, it looks like painting the hull rather than gel coat might be the way to go. I am definately on a tight budget, and would like to try to do the work myself, but don't have any real experience. I would appreciate comments from ya'lls experience. Am I crazy to be even contemplating this????? P.S. This will be my third whaler, so I do have an appreciation of what I am working with!
timbaho	posted 08-06-2003 11:13 AM ET (US) tgrobson, Having freshly refinished a 20' Guardian, let me make a few suggestions that will help you benefit from my mistakes. I also was on a tight budget and did all I could myself to help keep costs down. Do Not Cut Any Corners on your prep-work. The slightest imperfection that you may notice during prep will show up like a sore thumb after the finish coat. You cannot overprep your boat to receive the finish you choose. I used Awlgrip and I'm very happy with the results. I recommend that you let a local body shop with the proper equipment, environment, and hopefully knowledge to apply your finish coat. Once you've done the prep work and taped it up, the expensive and difficult part is done with and you damn sure don't want to have to do it all over again because of a screwed up finish coat! I recommend a final VERY THOROUGH sanding of 100% of the hull with a minimum of atleast 220 grit on an orbital sander. If you choose the Awlgrip marine finish, there is an application manual that you need to insist your applier reads. This stuff IS NOT your run-of-the-mill polyurethane. It's thicker and designed for marine use thu making it more difficult to apply than others. GOOD LUCK! Kevin
timbaho	posted 08-06-2003 11:19 AM ET (US) I just re-read my rambling but informative post and need to clarify some things. The final sanding I was referencing is, of couse, before the sraying begins. Any marine-grade body filler will work for your larger dings and scrapes but you will need some marine-grade filler with no fiber in it for your small blemishes. Kevin
alkar	posted 08-06-2003 04:31 PM ET (US) I second the above. Prep thoroughly, tape using the correct tape (3M tape used for this sort of application), and have the boat professionally painted with Awlgrip - not some brand X paint. I'd have it sprayed by an outfit that is used to working with Awlgrip.
tgrobson	posted 08-07-2003 01:40 PM ET (US) Thanks for the input! I'll benefit from your experience and probably have a professional do the spraying. If you don't mind sharing, what was the cost incurred? Thanks, Tom tgrobson
whalersailer	posted 08-07-2003 01:57 PM ET (US) I absolutely agree with the sentiment here about using Awlgrip. It is the most difficult paint to apply, but the results and longevity are the best! We applied it to my 40' sailboat (I did the prep, and my friend who shoots it for a living did the application), and the results are stunning! I shopped the paint pretty hard, and the cheapest (and easiest) place to buy it is: pyacht.com. It is $44/qt for whites, and you can order it directly online. The next cheapest place I could find it was about $66/qt, and I had to deal with the special orders department to get the stuff. Hope this helps! -WS
SpeedBump	posted 08-07-2003 02:53 PM ET (US) I painted my classic 13 @ five years ago. As already mentioned prep is the key to a great finish. Sand, sand and sand again with finer grits of paper. Use a painting system with matched barrier coats, undercoaters, primers, and top coats. Lots of residue washdowns are a must. You'll spend more $ on sandpaper and surface washe than you can believe so buy in bulk. Use a spray application for the finest finish and if possible have it professionally applied. It doesn't pay to chinch on the paint product. I used Interlux two-part poly urethane after pricing the awlgrip products.. While half the price you get what you pay for in paints and it was a mistake. The interlux product was good for the topsides but not the cockpit sole.. It was wearing through the nonskid surface after two seasons. should have spent the extra money for the Awlgrip. I did all the work and sprayed the hull myself using an HVLP system. The finish looked beautiful the product was not as durable as I had hoped for. Go w/ Awlgrip
DIVE 1	posted 08-07-2003 08:22 PM ET (US) We had DIVE1 professionally sprayed in 1995 using PPG Concept paint. There was a lot of heavy damage and fiberglass repair work prior to painting. The hull was upside down on the trailer. This made it easier but we still had 1000 hours of work prior to painting. We had the painter preview our prep work on the hull several times prior to painting. Great prep work is the key to a great paint job. We spent approx. $320.00 for painting products, this does not include fiberglass work. Today, the hull still looks good and shines nicely. I would recommend Concept, Imron, or Awlgrip for hull paints. Jim
tgrobson	posted 08-08-2003 10:45 AM ET (US) Thanks dive 1. I've seen the pictures of your finished product, and your boat is an inspiration. In particular, I think your use of the line x is really a great touch as well. Thanks for the reply
DIVE 1	posted 08-08-2003 08:17 PM ET (US) Tom, The interior is actually gelcoat. All of the interior repairs were completed and then it was sanded with 80 grit sandpaper. After a thorough cleaning, 1 coat of gelcoat was sprayed inside with no wax additive. We then added wax to the gelcoat and turned down the air pressure to make the spray gun spit the gelcoat. The result was a complete non-skid interior. The nice part is that it is easy to touch up by blotting gelcoat with a paintbrush. Jim
alkar	posted 08-10-2003 01:58 AM ET (US) I used the Line-X and I love it. It is showing no signs of wear. I didn't know enough about gel coat to think about doing the sort of ingenius stuff Jim did. It might have saved me some money, although I feel good about the choice we made. And yes, Jim's boat has been an inspiration - for many of us :-)