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Author Topic:   Wood for Sakonnet bow platform rebuild

Gene in NC posted 08-17-2003 07:02 AM ET (US)
Whaler originally used white pine. I have clear fir. Ok to use to replace some of the slats?
Robob2003 posted 08-17-2003 11:37 AM ET (US)
The original platform was white pine?
Mine is all mahogany. I'm sure because I dismantled it and stored the pieces. Maybe mine was replaced somewhere along the way.
Bob on Tampa Bay
Gene in NC posted 08-17-2003 03:15 PM ET (US)
Teak sounds better but not original. Saw the white pine in Whaler literature somewhere and min is certainly original. '66 Sakonnet owned since 12/27/67.
Gene in NC posted 08-18-2003 03:34 PM ET (US)
Bump.
smirkless posted 08-19-2003 06:00 PM ET (US)
Fir is generally considered a poor choice for rot resistance in the building industry. Can't imagine it would be any better for boats.
Tom W Clark posted 08-19-2003 09:39 PM ET (US)
Ward,
I'm not sure where you're getting your information but Fir *IS* known in the building industry for its rot resistance. Maybe we are talking about different types of fir, there are many and perhaps in Florida they use something different than what we have up here. For me and the rest of the builders and boat people on the West Coast, fir means Douglas Fir (Pseudotsuga menziesii).
Douglas Fir is (mostly) what the western half of the United States and Canada was built with. Douglas Fir is known for its high rot resistance and strength. It was used extensively in the boat building industry for decades while the supply of tight grained old growth fir was still available at low cost. Of all the timber grown on the West Coast, only Western Red Cedar and Redwood has a higher resistance to rot.
Gene,
If what you have is "Doug Fir", it would be a fine substitute for the original pine, superior actually.
A note about the wood used on and in Whalers over the years: The original bow platform on Sakonnet (optional on the Eastport, Nauset) was built of pine and painted. But this does not necessary mean that all the platforms ever built were made of the same wood. No manufacturer that I know of would let production stop if they ran out of one material and an equivalent or superior material were available.
Whaler did in fact use different species of woods at different times, sometimes calling them all the same. The best example of this and the one which causes the most confusion if the type of "mahogany" used for the bright work on the early Whalers. In fact they used several types of wood they called "mahogany". To quote Dick Fisher from an early catalog:
"Where it best suits the purpose, wood is used, and it is handsome varnished mahogany, except for the casting platform on the Sakonnet which is painted pine. For the benefit of the Dept. of Commerce busybodies, mahogany means any wood we elect so to name. Don't worry about this, the wood is good; you might vote more thoughtfully however."
I just love that editorial jab at the Feds.
smirkless posted 08-21-2003 01:05 PM ET (US)
Tom, you are correct. I should have said that almost all exterior wood construction in Florida is a bad idea. The issue here is decay due to standing water on exposed wood; even if the paint is cracked or worn. With this condition, fir is not acceptable. Having done a serious business in historic preservation/renovation, I can tell you we have ripped out truckloads of fir siding, windows and trim.
With the Sakonnet platform, this may not be as much of an issue. With the proper finish and detailing to avoid standing water, fir and pine should be okay.
I'm about to build a platform for my Sakonnet but I'll probably use mahogany just for the look I'm trying to achieve, not necessarily for the above reason. Even mahogany rots is given the chance.
Chesapeake posted 08-22-2003 12:15 PM ET (US)
Gene: Were you planning on painting the assembly. If so, one option would be to use fir, coat with 3 or 4 coats of West Systems epoxy before priming and painting.
If you are painting (particularly with good marine paint, like Awl-grip, etc.), this works extremely well, regardless of whether the wood is fir or mahogany.

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Author	Topic: Wood for Sakonnet bow platform rebuild
Gene in NC	posted 08-17-2003 07:02 AM ET (US) Whaler originally used white pine. I have clear fir. Ok to use to replace some of the slats?
Robob2003	posted 08-17-2003 11:37 AM ET (US) The original platform was white pine? Mine is all mahogany. I'm sure because I dismantled it and stored the pieces. Maybe mine was replaced somewhere along the way. Bob on Tampa Bay
Gene in NC	posted 08-17-2003 03:15 PM ET (US) Teak sounds better but not original. Saw the white pine in Whaler literature somewhere and min is certainly original. '66 Sakonnet owned since 12/27/67.
Gene in NC	posted 08-18-2003 03:34 PM ET (US) Bump.
smirkless	posted 08-19-2003 06:00 PM ET (US) Fir is generally considered a poor choice for rot resistance in the building industry. Can't imagine it would be any better for boats.
Tom W Clark	posted 08-19-2003 09:39 PM ET (US) Ward, I'm not sure where you're getting your information but Fir IS known in the building industry for its rot resistance. Maybe we are talking about different types of fir, there are many and perhaps in Florida they use something different than what we have up here. For me and the rest of the builders and boat people on the West Coast, fir means Douglas Fir (Pseudotsuga menziesii). Douglas Fir is (mostly) what the western half of the United States and Canada was built with. Douglas Fir is known for its high rot resistance and strength. It was used extensively in the boat building industry for decades while the supply of tight grained old growth fir was still available at low cost. Of all the timber grown on the West Coast, only Western Red Cedar and Redwood has a higher resistance to rot. Gene, If what you have is "Doug Fir", it would be a fine substitute for the original pine, superior actually. A note about the wood used on and in Whalers over the years: The original bow platform on Sakonnet (optional on the Eastport, Nauset) was built of pine and painted. But this does not necessary mean that all the platforms ever built were made of the same wood. No manufacturer that I know of would let production stop if they ran out of one material and an equivalent or superior material were available. Whaler did in fact use different species of woods at different times, sometimes calling them all the same. The best example of this and the one which causes the most confusion if the type of "mahogany" used for the bright work on the early Whalers. In fact they used several types of wood they called "mahogany". To quote Dick Fisher from an early catalog: "Where it best suits the purpose, wood is used, and it is handsome varnished mahogany, except for the casting platform on the Sakonnet which is painted pine. For the benefit of the Dept. of Commerce busybodies, mahogany means any wood we elect so to name. Don't worry about this, the wood is good; you might vote more thoughtfully however." I just love that editorial jab at the Feds.
smirkless	posted 08-21-2003 01:05 PM ET (US) Tom, you are correct. I should have said that almost all exterior wood construction in Florida is a bad idea. The issue here is decay due to standing water on exposed wood; even if the paint is cracked or worn. With this condition, fir is not acceptable. Having done a serious business in historic preservation/renovation, I can tell you we have ripped out truckloads of fir siding, windows and trim. With the Sakonnet platform, this may not be as much of an issue. With the proper finish and detailing to avoid standing water, fir and pine should be okay. I'm about to build a platform for my Sakonnet but I'll probably use mahogany just for the look I'm trying to achieve, not necessarily for the above reason. Even mahogany rots is given the chance.
Chesapeake	posted 08-22-2003 12:15 PM ET (US) Gene: Were you planning on painting the assembly. If so, one option would be to use fir, coat with 3 or 4 coats of West Systems epoxy before priming and painting. If you are painting (particularly with good marine paint, like Awl-grip, etc.), this works extremely well, regardless of whether the wood is fir or mahogany.