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Author Topic:   Yamaha 225 vs. Honda 225

Greencay posted 08-23-2003 01:32 PM ET (US)
Just discovered this website so am full of questions!
Planning to get new engines on my 1990 Outrage 25 this winter, replacing 1990 Evenrude 225's which are tired to say the least.
I want to go with four-stroke and currently am looking at the Yamaha or the Honda engines in that size.
Would appreciate any opinions regarding either of these, and perhaps some other manufacturer I'm not even thinking of. No rush, because this will be a mid-winter job.
Thanks in advance for your help.
David Jones
kglinz posted 08-23-2003 04:12 PM ET (US)
These charts are from tests by Trailer Boat Magazine http://members.fishingworks.com/kglinz/PhotoImages/ACF3A14.jpg http://members.fishingworks.com/kglinz/PhotoImages/Scan0001.jpg
DJS posted 08-24-2003 10:06 AM ET (US)
Greencay,
Go to:
http://www.honda-marine.com/obpwhy.htm# In the red highlighted catagories go to the "Honda 225HP" and click on "Delivers more torque at any RPM."
I found this infromation to be quite interesting.
David
kglinz posted 08-24-2003 11:21 AM ET (US)
I don't think there's much difference power wise. One thing to consider is mounting. If your current mounting is 26" centers you will need to redrill your transom to mount dual Yamahas. Yamaha needs 29.5" centers, minimum. Honda will mount on 26". While I'm a 4 Stroke supporter, you are looking at adding 250 Lbs or so over your current engines.
jws posted 08-24-2003 01:27 PM ET (US)
New boat down the canal had twin 225 Hondas. Beautiful center console rig. Recently the engines were switched to 225, 4 stroke Yamahas. When I passed by one day I slowed and asked why the change. The answer; the Hondas were "junk" said he couldn't shift them. No further explanation but something you might want to check out on some of the outboard discussion forums.
I run a 50 Honda and have had great luck with it other than it "making oil" once requiring changing the fuel pump. A good friend of mine bought a new 40 Hp Honda 4 years ago after my reaction. He just recently had a big chunk fall out of his lower untit gear case. Not as a result of collision. He also fresh water flushes his engine every single time immediately after use. Local Honda dealer told him entire unit with gears, H2o pump, etc. would cost about same as putting his stuff in new housing. Around $1100. He called Honda HDQs in Alpharetta, Georgia. They whacked $500 off the part price for him. Good luck with your choice.
Jamie 20 outrage posted 08-24-2003 02:57 PM ET (US)
Honda 225s had a shift problem, but they came out with a fix that works. Different cams in the shift linkage, these parts installed easily without removing much. I am a fan of Honda 225s. They are very reliable. What I don't like is the weight and the poor self diagnostic capabilities. I would like to think by winter, they will come up with better diagnostics. Back to the weight, this alone would make me consider another outboard, I would choose Evinrudes. Maybe even 175s, to save even more weight. But if not 225s. You need to get as much knowledge as possible, it isn't as easy to choose as it used to be.
Bigshot posted 08-25-2003 01:50 PM ET (US)
I know a guy with 2 identical professional fishing boats. He ran 225 Honda 4 strokes on one and 225 Yamaha 4 strokes on the other. He said as soon as his sponsorship from Honda is over he is going with Yamahas, much better.
Don't forget Suzuki just came out with V6 4 strokes as well.
Greencay posted 08-25-2003 06:32 PM ET (US)
kglinz:
now you've got me worried. I measured the center to center distance of my present Evinrude 225's and it came out to 28" exactly. I'm not excited about more holes in the "whaler drive". Does this knock out the Yamaha's?
Dave Jones
Bigshot posted 08-25-2003 10:51 PM ET (US)
Maybe not....my bud had twin 1997 Rude 225's and just put in 03 225 Hondas with no new holes.....28' Mako.
Neil posted 08-26-2003 12:36 AM ET (US)
Re-powered my 1990 27 ft. Whaler with twin Honda 225's last November. So far (140 hours), they have performed flawlessly. They get 40 to 50 pecent better fuel economy than the Yamaha 250 strokes that were replaced, and they push the boat just as fast (45 mph top end). With 50 less hp, I have no idea why the top speed is the same.
Jamie 20 outrage posted 08-26-2003 10:43 PM ET (US)
The reason might be alot of things. But keep in mind that the outboard manufacturers are allowed to be 10 percent off from their advertised horsepower rating. so two outboards rated at 200 hp, one could be 180, the other 220.
kglinz posted 08-27-2003 12:35 AM ET (US)
Greencay
I tried to use the 26" holes my optis were mounted on and it would not work with Yamaha/Mercs. I had to redrill. I'm at 30" now and couldn't run with one engine tilted and the other down. I don't think 28" will work with Yamaha.
andygere posted 08-27-2003 01:05 AM ET (US)
Honda 225 4-stroke: 610 lbs (EFI) power/weight (p/w)=0.369
Yamaha 225 4-stroke: 583 lbs p/w=0.386
Mercury 225 4-stroke: 583 lbs (EFI) p/w=0.386
Evinrude 225: 532 lbs (DI) p/w=0.423
Mercury 225 Optimax: 497 lbs (DI) p/w=0.453
Yamaha 200 HPDI: 475 lbs (DI) p/w=0.473
Mercury 225 2-stroke EFI: 479 lbs (EFI) p/w=0.470
Mercury 200 2-stroke: 414 lbs (carb) p/w=0.483
Johnson 175 2-stroke: 391 lbs (carb) p/w=0.446
Why would you want the Hondas? Why does anyone put these pigs on a classic Whaler? They would be absolutely last on my list, based on the data above. They are adapted automotive engines, and are just too heavy for the classic Outrages. The Mercury 225 EFI, the Yamaha 200 HPDI or even the Johnson 175 look like much better choices.
Neil posted 08-27-2003 01:49 AM ET (US)
Why does anyone put these pigs (Hondas) on a classic Whaler ? (I assume my 1990 27 walkaround qualifies as a "classic"):
1) Honda's reputation for reliability.
2) More torque than the Yamaha 4 strokes.
3) Improved fuel economy compared to my 250 two strokes that were replaced (i.e. increased range).
4) Engines fit without having to drill new holes in my Whaler drive.
5) 3 year factory warranty.
6) Quiet operation compared to the 2 strokes.
7) Don't have to add $20 a gallon oil.
Though the Hondas are a great match for my boat, (10 ft. beam and Whaler Drive help) the weight may be a problem for a 25 ft. Outrage.

andygere posted 08-27-2003 09:05 AM ET (US)
Neil, good point. The 27 is a substantial enough platform to carry just about anything. Take a look at Alkar's otherwise beautiful Outrage 22 WD with twin Honda 115's to get an idea of what I am talking about: http://members.aol.com/bburtensha/alkar/profileaft.jpg
By pig I was referring to the Honda's weight, and more specifically the power to weight ratio. I probably could have picked a better word.
Bigshot posted 08-27-2003 10:28 AM ET (US)
Andy I do agree with you on that photo. Those Honda 115 & 130's are 2 engines I would NEVER chose being they weigh 505lbs EACH.
andygere posted 08-27-2003 12:12 PM ET (US)
Bigs,
I'd expect to see similar trim on an Outrage 25 WD with 1220 lbs of Honda hanging off the back.
lhg posted 09-03-2003 08:15 PM ET (US)
I'm betting that Mercury's new 250 HP 4-stroke is going to weigh less than 500#. Can you wait a little longer?
Except for this new Mercury offering, which would exceed HP rating, I don't think any of the Japanese 225 4-strokes, mounted as twins, are appropriate weight for a 25 Outrage WD. All WD's incidentally, used 28" engine spacing.
A pair of 225 EFI/DFI's would probably be your best bet, and faster & more fuel efficient than your current carbed engines.

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Author	Topic: Yamaha 225 vs. Honda 225
Greencay	posted 08-23-2003 01:32 PM ET (US) Just discovered this website so am full of questions! Planning to get new engines on my 1990 Outrage 25 this winter, replacing 1990 Evenrude 225's which are tired to say the least. I want to go with four-stroke and currently am looking at the Yamaha or the Honda engines in that size. Would appreciate any opinions regarding either of these, and perhaps some other manufacturer I'm not even thinking of. No rush, because this will be a mid-winter job. Thanks in advance for your help. David Jones
kglinz	posted 08-23-2003 04:12 PM ET (US) These charts are from tests by Trailer Boat Magazine http://members.fishingworks.com/kglinz/PhotoImages/ACF3A14.jpg http://members.fishingworks.com/kglinz/PhotoImages/Scan0001.jpg
DJS	posted 08-24-2003 10:06 AM ET (US) Greencay, Go to: http://www.honda-marine.com/obpwhy.htm# In the red highlighted catagories go to the "Honda 225HP" and click on "Delivers more torque at any RPM." I found this infromation to be quite interesting. David
kglinz	posted 08-24-2003 11:21 AM ET (US) I don't think there's much difference power wise. One thing to consider is mounting. If your current mounting is 26" centers you will need to redrill your transom to mount dual Yamahas. Yamaha needs 29.5" centers, minimum. Honda will mount on 26". While I'm a 4 Stroke supporter, you are looking at adding 250 Lbs or so over your current engines.
jws	posted 08-24-2003 01:27 PM ET (US) New boat down the canal had twin 225 Hondas. Beautiful center console rig. Recently the engines were switched to 225, 4 stroke Yamahas. When I passed by one day I slowed and asked why the change. The answer; the Hondas were "junk" said he couldn't shift them. No further explanation but something you might want to check out on some of the outboard discussion forums. I run a 50 Honda and have had great luck with it other than it "making oil" once requiring changing the fuel pump. A good friend of mine bought a new 40 Hp Honda 4 years ago after my reaction. He just recently had a big chunk fall out of his lower untit gear case. Not as a result of collision. He also fresh water flushes his engine every single time immediately after use. Local Honda dealer told him entire unit with gears, H2o pump, etc. would cost about same as putting his stuff in new housing. Around $1100. He called Honda HDQs in Alpharetta, Georgia. They whacked $500 off the part price for him. Good luck with your choice.
Jamie 20 outrage	posted 08-24-2003 02:57 PM ET (US) Honda 225s had a shift problem, but they came out with a fix that works. Different cams in the shift linkage, these parts installed easily without removing much. I am a fan of Honda 225s. They are very reliable. What I don't like is the weight and the poor self diagnostic capabilities. I would like to think by winter, they will come up with better diagnostics. Back to the weight, this alone would make me consider another outboard, I would choose Evinrudes. Maybe even 175s, to save even more weight. But if not 225s. You need to get as much knowledge as possible, it isn't as easy to choose as it used to be.
Bigshot	posted 08-25-2003 01:50 PM ET (US) I know a guy with 2 identical professional fishing boats. He ran 225 Honda 4 strokes on one and 225 Yamaha 4 strokes on the other. He said as soon as his sponsorship from Honda is over he is going with Yamahas, much better. Don't forget Suzuki just came out with V6 4 strokes as well.
Greencay	posted 08-25-2003 06:32 PM ET (US) kglinz: now you've got me worried. I measured the center to center distance of my present Evinrude 225's and it came out to 28" exactly. I'm not excited about more holes in the "whaler drive". Does this knock out the Yamaha's? Dave Jones
Bigshot	posted 08-25-2003 10:51 PM ET (US) Maybe not....my bud had twin 1997 Rude 225's and just put in 03 225 Hondas with no new holes.....28' Mako.
Neil	posted 08-26-2003 12:36 AM ET (US) Re-powered my 1990 27 ft. Whaler with twin Honda 225's last November. So far (140 hours), they have performed flawlessly. They get 40 to 50 pecent better fuel economy than the Yamaha 250 strokes that were replaced, and they push the boat just as fast (45 mph top end). With 50 less hp, I have no idea why the top speed is the same.
Jamie 20 outrage	posted 08-26-2003 10:43 PM ET (US) The reason might be alot of things. But keep in mind that the outboard manufacturers are allowed to be 10 percent off from their advertised horsepower rating. so two outboards rated at 200 hp, one could be 180, the other 220.
kglinz	posted 08-27-2003 12:35 AM ET (US) Greencay I tried to use the 26" holes my optis were mounted on and it would not work with Yamaha/Mercs. I had to redrill. I'm at 30" now and couldn't run with one engine tilted and the other down. I don't think 28" will work with Yamaha.
andygere	posted 08-27-2003 01:05 AM ET (US) Honda 225 4-stroke: 610 lbs (EFI) power/weight (p/w)=0.369 Yamaha 225 4-stroke: 583 lbs p/w=0.386 Mercury 225 4-stroke: 583 lbs (EFI) p/w=0.386 Evinrude 225: 532 lbs (DI) p/w=0.423 Mercury 225 Optimax: 497 lbs (DI) p/w=0.453 Yamaha 200 HPDI: 475 lbs (DI) p/w=0.473 Mercury 225 2-stroke EFI: 479 lbs (EFI) p/w=0.470 Mercury 200 2-stroke: 414 lbs (carb) p/w=0.483 Johnson 175 2-stroke: 391 lbs (carb) p/w=0.446 Why would you want the Hondas? Why does anyone put these pigs on a classic Whaler? They would be absolutely last on my list, based on the data above. They are adapted automotive engines, and are just too heavy for the classic Outrages. The Mercury 225 EFI, the Yamaha 200 HPDI or even the Johnson 175 look like much better choices.
Neil	posted 08-27-2003 01:49 AM ET (US) Why does anyone put these pigs (Hondas) on a classic Whaler ? (I assume my 1990 27 walkaround qualifies as a "classic"): 1) Honda's reputation for reliability. 2) More torque than the Yamaha 4 strokes. 3) Improved fuel economy compared to my 250 two strokes that were replaced (i.e. increased range). 4) Engines fit without having to drill new holes in my Whaler drive. 5) 3 year factory warranty. 6) Quiet operation compared to the 2 strokes. 7) Don't have to add $20 a gallon oil. Though the Hondas are a great match for my boat, (10 ft. beam and Whaler Drive help) the weight may be a problem for a 25 ft. Outrage.
andygere	posted 08-27-2003 09:05 AM ET (US) Neil, good point. The 27 is a substantial enough platform to carry just about anything. Take a look at Alkar's otherwise beautiful Outrage 22 WD with twin Honda 115's to get an idea of what I am talking about: http://members.aol.com/bburtensha/alkar/profileaft.jpg By pig I was referring to the Honda's weight, and more specifically the power to weight ratio. I probably could have picked a better word.
Bigshot	posted 08-27-2003 10:28 AM ET (US) Andy I do agree with you on that photo. Those Honda 115 & 130's are 2 engines I would NEVER chose being they weigh 505lbs EACH.
andygere	posted 08-27-2003 12:12 PM ET (US) Bigs, I'd expect to see similar trim on an Outrage 25 WD with 1220 lbs of Honda hanging off the back.
lhg	posted 09-03-2003 08:15 PM ET (US) I'm betting that Mercury's new 250 HP 4-stroke is going to weigh less than 500#. Can you wait a little longer? Except for this new Mercury offering, which would exceed HP rating, I don't think any of the Japanese 225 4-strokes, mounted as twins, are appropriate weight for a 25 Outrage WD. All WD's incidentally, used 28" engine spacing. A pair of 225 EFI/DFI's would probably be your best bet, and faster & more fuel efficient than your current carbed engines.