posted 12-15-2003 08:38 AM ET (US)            

http://www.widell.com/drillsiz.html

posted 12-15-2003 08:47 AM ET (US)            

If you don't already have one, purchase a small drill index so you have some choices in hand, buy the tap and tap tool and do some experimenting on a scrap piece of the phenolic before you go live. I have typically drilled the pilot hole (smaller than for metal) and used self-tapping sheet metal screws (SS) for the work I have done with phenolic, but I don'r know why drilling and tapping wouldn't work.

posted 12-15-2003 09:51 AM ET (US)            

But I sent an email to Boston Whaler and this was response:

"This bracket could be installed on either side. Drill, tap and use machine
screws into the phenolic material."

posted 12-15-2003 12:43 PM ET (US)            

Here is what I sent Whaler:
"OK if starboard and I use a bracket like this?
[url]http://www.birdsallmarine.com/page29.html[url] "

And this is what they said in response:

"This bracket could be installed on either side. Drill, tap and use machine
screws into the phenolic material."

posted 12-15-2003 12:50 PM ET (US)            

www.birdsallmarine.com/page29.html

posted 12-15-2003 01:06 PM ET (US)            

The reason you want to use machine screws in this application is because the motor mount you propose using will put substantial stress on the fasteners holding the mounting plate. Although the catalog page you've linked to does not specify the fastener size, I suspect it will be a 1/4" - 20.

While a #14 sheet metal screw (the equivalent diameter size of 1/4-20 machine screw) might be sufficient, a 1/4-20 machine screw will definitely be stronger so long as its hole is tapped correctly.

Tapping is not difficult. Go to the hardware store and buy the appropriate size tap for a few dollars. I disagree with kingfish's assessment of Whale Board (not whaler board) as being *much* softer than any metal. In fact, Whale Board is only somewhat softer than aluminum which was (and is) also used as backing in Whaler hulls, though mostly in their commercial line of boats.

posted 12-15-2003 01:33 PM ET (US)            

Rainier Ritchlite, the manufacturer of Whaleboard, offers some tips on drilling and tapping the material. Milling, drilling and tapping are to be done dry. For more info see:

posted 12-15-2003 02:05 PM ET (US)            

In addition:

Drill the fore-outboard hole through the gunnel and put a nylock nut on it with a flat washer bent to fit the under-gunnel contour.

Use only 5/16" x 18 stainless steel machine screws for the rest.

Learned both lessons the hard way on a 2001 Montauk.

posted 12-15-2003 03:55 PM ET (US)            

My plan is to mount a stern mount electric trolling motor on the small piece of flat deck in the corner of the bow, using one of the brackets linked-to above. Using the mounting bracket, it will be easy for me to remove it with little or no damage to the boat, and the footprint will be small.

The tapping part sounds fun.

posted 12-15-2003 04:42 PM ET (US)            

King Starboard is a polymer plastic and not the same as Whaleboard (not Whalerboard, or Whaler Board, or Whale Board). Yes, it is harder and stronger. I'll send you a sample.

Whaleboard is a laminated paper product made with phenolic resin. It is actually hundreds of layers of recycled content paper product "cooked" under tremendous pressure in a huge press at the Rainier Ritchlite factory in Tacoma, WA. As near as I can tell it is pretty much the same as their Ritchlite countertop material that is now becoming all the rage.

nolester,

You will want to have the mounting plate in hand before you drill any holes. Once you have it, position the mounting plate exactly where you want it and use a Vix-Bit self centering drill bit to make the initial pilot holes though the fiberglass. This will keep the holes exactly in the center of the holes through the mounting plate and will all but eliminate any errors on your part from having the drill bit "walk" away from your mark.

Vix-Bits are available at most good hardware and home improvement stores. They are VERY useful, and I highly recommend them. There are other brands of self centering drill bits, but I have found the Vix-Bits to be the best. I believe even Amazon.com brokers them.

After drilling through the fiberglass you then use the appropriate size drill bit to create the hole through the Whaleboard that will be tapped. If you do use 1/4-20 flat head stainless steel machine screws you will want to use a #7 tap drill bit (or a 13/64" drill bit) for the pilot hole through the Whaleboard.

To digress a bit, there is often confusion about various popular composite materials used in boats today. Starboard and phenolic board are not the same. Whaler does not use Starboard inside their hulls and they use neither Whaleboard nor Starboard in their transoms.

posted 12-15-2003 05:39 PM ET (US)            

I am thinking I better order the motor too, to best judge where to put the bracket.

posted 12-15-2003 06:42 PM ET (US)            

No, I haven't used the mount on your link. I got my experience mounting Minn Kota quick disconnect base plates.

Looking at the mount you refer to, though, I see even greater leverage stresses on the mounting screws (bolts) than with the much larger Minn Kota plates.

posted 12-15-2003 11:22 PM ET (US)            

Phenolic resin boards are made by several manufacturers, usually graded in terms like G-10, G-9, G-8, etc. The various compositions have different properties of physical strength, dielectric coefficient, and other various attributes.

Reference:

posted 12-16-2003 12:27 AM ET (US)            

In fact, the design nolester was planning on using amplifies the load by a factor of 4 to 5 and places that load principally on the front two bolts. --- Jerry/Idaho

posted 12-16-2003 01:13 AM ET (US)            

Minn Kota motors are electric trolling motors. Did you think I was mounting a gas engine on the bow?

posted 12-16-2003 02:54 PM ET (US)            

"... Looking at the mount you refer to, though, I see even greater leverage stresses on the mounting screws (bolts) than with the much larger Minn Kota plates. ..."

is generically true and led me back to the stresses I envisioned in the design that nolester was considering.

And, as I mentioned, using an electric motor is beneficial -being lighter and eliminating the vibratory loading. --- Jerry/Idaho

posted 12-16-2003 04:07 PM ET (US)            

I assumed (with the usual risk) that "everyone knows" that my Minn Kotas are front mounted electric trolling motors that mount on about 10" X 12" quick disconnect base plates.

Stresses from running with the motor "up" and when the motor bumps a submerged object are nearly centered on the plate.

My concern with the mount that Nolester is considering is that the stresses will be on the end of an arm that reaches out from the relatively small base plate.

posted 12-17-2003 12:37 PM ET (US)            

I don't know to what loads the mounting systems were designed to - and therefore cannot say any one is adequate or inadequate.

posted 01-09-2004 08:47 AM ET (US)            

I guess if you just remove the motor everytime you move to a new spot it might work, but what a hassel. If you don't have a motor already, I would buy a bow mount trolling motor. The cost of this bracket and a transom mount motor would be more than a bow mount.

If you do decide to go this way (TM), one thing I was thinking, you could open up the holes on the base of that bracket so you could use larger screws.

posted 01-09-2004 02:01 PM ET (US)            

Still though, if you don't have the motor already, it would be more expensive that way. But, it might be more versatile since you could still use the motor on some other boat if you wanted to.