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Author Topic:   Advice needed: Raycor Fuel Filter mounting

ratherwhalering posted 02-06-2004 10:39 AM ET (US)
I was hoping to get some feedback on the effect of mounting the Raycor Fuel filter in the console. Yes, in the console. Turns out that the holes for the mounting plate for the fuel filter fit perfectly in the studs from the hand rail mounts. In fact, the railmount's nylock nuts fit inside the mounting holes, if turned flush. I'll just need two longer machine screws, washers, and two more nylock nuts. I'm seriously considering putting it in the console because:
1. No holes
2. Protected from elements
3. Takes up dead space in console.
4. Easy viewing/access/space for draining bowl.
5. Protected when mounted between the fire extinguisher box and the front of the console.
5. Close proximity to the console's control cable hole and bilge tube access.
There are two concerns I have:
1. Will there be a problem with fuel delivery from the Pate c27 tank because the filter will be mounted at or above the top of the fuel pick up tube.
2. Will pounding cause problems with the water/fuel seperation.
Please weigh in if you have an opinion, especially regarding any problems with the fuel level and possible air locking. Thanks!
JBCornwell posted 02-06-2004 12:05 PM ET (US)
Ahoy, Rather.
My filter/seperator is mounted in the console as you contemplate. No problems.
Fuel line runs from tank to filter, to bulb (also in console) to engine. Works fine.
Good luck.
Red sky at night. . .
JB
cape_rover posted 02-06-2004 12:29 PM ET (US)
Boats with built in tanks use Racor filters above deck and don't have problems. The only other cons are that you may get gas inside your console when changing the filter. You could also get gas fumes trapped inside the console where electrical sparks are possible. Personally I don't think either are a concern. You are also lengthing the fuel line which could effect the motors draw on the fuel but this is also not likely a problem on smaller boats.
On the pro side, Racor filters are rather unsightly and you found a good place to hide it and you are putting it in a place where fishing line can not catch it.
I also plan to mount the Racor Filter inside the 170 console. Let me know how it works out.
ratherwhalering posted 02-06-2004 01:01 PM ET (US)
Thanks JB and caperover, that gives me enough confidence in the project to start this afternoon. I feel much better knowing others have done this, and it works! I'll follow up with pics when I get the new engine mounted.
-Rob-
lhg posted 02-06-2004 03:02 PM ET (US)
Are you hoping to get 75 virgins when you die? This sounds like suicide bomber training to me, in spite of the fact that others here have done it, and are still alive to tell about it.
Can this possibly be legal, and have other boat builders, including Boston Whaler done this? I have seen filters in compartments, but not where there are a myriad of electrical connections. Not long ago I was working on the gauge connections in my console, and touched a wrench across something live, and got a huge spark. It was so big I was afraid I damaged an engine electrical system.
It seems to me, at least with all of the electrical switches, connections and fuses I have in my console, that introducing the possibility of confined fuel vapor is downright not smart. But, what the heck, if you're going to do this, be sure you have a battery in there too! They're usually good for a few sparks once in a while.
Maybe it's just the insurance background in me that tells me I don't like this idea!
ratherwhalering posted 02-06-2004 03:17 PM ET (US)
There goes my confidence...
Morocco posted 02-06-2004 03:43 PM ET (US)
Well, my 25 Revenge has TWO fuel filters (one for each engine) mounted by the factory inside the starboard aft 'battery hatch.'
It is maybe 2 feet from the battery box, and closer to a small bus bar, and the starboard battery on/off/lock switch.
I think Larry's reservations are quite sound, and I agree with them, but so far it hasn't been a problem, thank god. I assume that Whaler thought so too when it installed them there, but even so I take great care to put up some sort of 'shield' (even if only a couple of dry towels)whenever I'm changine them or draining them, and I am alway alert for the smell of gas.
You'll be okay, I think.
Abaco posted 02-06-2004 03:53 PM ET (US)
I would tend to agree with LHG. If only because if you get water in your fuel and some engine problem you may forget to turn off all the electronic before you pull off the filter. Too much bad stuff can go wrong.
lhg posted 02-06-2004 06:31 PM ET (US)
Morroco - If you have a 25 Revenge, any year, the filters were not installed by the factory unless it began life as a Sea Drive. Some Dealership or owner did this, not BW, as filters were not a factory option. My boats both came with factory stickers saying "installation of a water separting fuel filter strongly recommended". (because of the internal tank)
On my 25 full transom, I installed my two filters in this fairly large, full boat width space, centered on the upper center of the transom, just under the covering deck. The batteries, in each corner and in Whaler boxes, are about 4' away, each direction. This space is well ventilated, with air flowing in through 4 rod holders on each side, and except for jump starting a battery, in which case the hatches would be opened, no other chance for electical sparks. No switches or other electrical connections are back there.
There is just something about the smaller, more enclosed size of a console that concerns me, and having this potential right in my face. Admittedly, filters have to be air-tight to function, but when being changed there is plenty of chance for spillage and vapors. I have never seen an Outrage with filters in the console. On a Montauk, where almost by definition, portable tanks don't pick up condensation, and hence don't require the water separating filters.

Morocco posted 02-09-2004 03:06 AM ET (US)
Larry,
You're probably right -- I would imagine that the hull would have been shipped bare to the dealer and rigged with the engines and the like locally, but I don't know this for sure. I do know that the power configuration is exactly as the boat came with, new. The guy I bought it from provided the original invoices from the first owner (I'm the third) and it was delivered with those engines on day one, so unless BW shipped it from MA to Southern CA with the Johnsons already on, it must have been done at the dealership.
Mark
triblet posted 02-09-2004 08:34 AM ET (US)
Doesn't an enclosed space with fuel require a blower?

Chuck
ratherwhalering posted 02-09-2004 01:26 PM ET (US)
Thanks for the replies. I think Larry has some excellent points regarding ventalation and proximity to electrical connections. I dry mounted the filter this weekend, and it is well out of the way, but then again it is 1.5' from the ignition and main buss bar. The louvers in the two doors provide some amount of ventalation, but I'm not sure this is enough. If I do mount the filter in this location, I will add additional ventalation to the fire extinguisher box since it is so close to the filter itself. In any case, I will have to be VERY careful when changing out the filter, regardless of location. Since my battery is located in the stern, remotely disconnecting the power supply should not be a problem.
logjamslam posted 02-09-2004 03:32 PM ET (US)
lhg's posts are entertaining and totaly true; I believe he has the right idea as far as setting up his boat.
Nobody plans on having a fire aboard but when it happens how the boat is set up will determine whether you succeed in extinguishing a fire or lose the boat. If you lose the boat, how you have the boat set up may determine whether you live or die.
Over the years I have had several fires aboard boats; the worst was a battery fire aboard a 25'whaler. A voltage regulater failed, overcharged a battery and the battery fried. If my boat had been set up like lhg's I would have put out the fire, disconnected the battery and run home. Instead I lost both batteries and both oil tanks. If the fuel filters had been in the same compartment I would have lost the boat for sure. As it was they were dangerously close and I could have easily lost the boat. The boat continued to run after the fire was out and I didn't shut everything down until I made a radio call for assistance.
Now lets say that I shot my load of fire extinguishers and with all my fire fighting efforts I failed to put out the fire... I still had a few options.
The boat continued to run until I turned it off so I could have made my distress call and headed for a nearby island
While having crew don survival suits and ready emergency gear. If the engine quit before I got to the island we could have stayed on the bow waiting for help to arrive until the fire was so bad that we had to go over the side.
Now lets say you some how get a fire going inside your console because of your racor or battery placement. Immediately you have a lot fewer options; you may no longer get to make your mayday call if your power lead burns. You may not get to stand there and drive the boat as long as it continues to run. How much of your emergency gear burned up before you could get to it? Since the fire is not contained in the stern you don't get to stand on the bow waiting for help for near as long before you go into the water.
Now let's forget about fires. A Racor filter is probably one of the most important things you can do to make sure that your outboard keeps running. I can't think of a time that I changed one without spilling at least some gas. I would be a lot less inclined to drain or change a filter when I should if mine were located in the console; my subconscious thought would be "if i'm not messing with it then it's not leaking in my console"
Greg
Swellmonster posted 02-14-2004 01:29 PM ET (US)
When my 20 Outrage was delivered new to me, it had a water separator back in the bilge, very accesable to the rear hatch opening. Problem was it was aluminum, and one day enough moisture caused a corrosion or oxidation problem, fuel leaked out and air leaked in causing loss of fuel to my motor, and probably leaked fuel in the bilge w/out me even knowing.
I switched over to stainless...
cape_rover posted 02-16-2004 05:42 PM ET (US)
Those same wires that are in the console are also under the engine cover on my 70hp. The heavy guage wire that goes to the starter is right above the fuel filter but I've never had a problem and I don't think it is a suicidal design flaw...
I would also opt for the stainless water seperator mount.

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Author	Topic: Advice needed: Raycor Fuel Filter mounting
ratherwhalering	posted 02-06-2004 10:39 AM ET (US) I was hoping to get some feedback on the effect of mounting the Raycor Fuel filter in the console. Yes, in the console. Turns out that the holes for the mounting plate for the fuel filter fit perfectly in the studs from the hand rail mounts. In fact, the railmount's nylock nuts fit inside the mounting holes, if turned flush. I'll just need two longer machine screws, washers, and two more nylock nuts. I'm seriously considering putting it in the console because: 1. No holes 2. Protected from elements 3. Takes up dead space in console. 4. Easy viewing/access/space for draining bowl. 5. Protected when mounted between the fire extinguisher box and the front of the console. 5. Close proximity to the console's control cable hole and bilge tube access. There are two concerns I have: 1. Will there be a problem with fuel delivery from the Pate c27 tank because the filter will be mounted at or above the top of the fuel pick up tube. 2. Will pounding cause problems with the water/fuel seperation. Please weigh in if you have an opinion, especially regarding any problems with the fuel level and possible air locking. Thanks!
JBCornwell	posted 02-06-2004 12:05 PM ET (US) Ahoy, Rather. My filter/seperator is mounted in the console as you contemplate. No problems. Fuel line runs from tank to filter, to bulb (also in console) to engine. Works fine. Good luck. Red sky at night. . . JB
cape_rover	posted 02-06-2004 12:29 PM ET (US) Boats with built in tanks use Racor filters above deck and don't have problems. The only other cons are that you may get gas inside your console when changing the filter. You could also get gas fumes trapped inside the console where electrical sparks are possible. Personally I don't think either are a concern. You are also lengthing the fuel line which could effect the motors draw on the fuel but this is also not likely a problem on smaller boats. On the pro side, Racor filters are rather unsightly and you found a good place to hide it and you are putting it in a place where fishing line can not catch it. I also plan to mount the Racor Filter inside the 170 console. Let me know how it works out.
ratherwhalering	posted 02-06-2004 01:01 PM ET (US) Thanks JB and caperover, that gives me enough confidence in the project to start this afternoon. I feel much better knowing others have done this, and it works! I'll follow up with pics when I get the new engine mounted. -Rob-
lhg	posted 02-06-2004 03:02 PM ET (US) Are you hoping to get 75 virgins when you die? This sounds like suicide bomber training to me, in spite of the fact that others here have done it, and are still alive to tell about it. Can this possibly be legal, and have other boat builders, including Boston Whaler done this? I have seen filters in compartments, but not where there are a myriad of electrical connections. Not long ago I was working on the gauge connections in my console, and touched a wrench across something live, and got a huge spark. It was so big I was afraid I damaged an engine electrical system. It seems to me, at least with all of the electrical switches, connections and fuses I have in my console, that introducing the possibility of confined fuel vapor is downright not smart. But, what the heck, if you're going to do this, be sure you have a battery in there too! They're usually good for a few sparks once in a while. Maybe it's just the insurance background in me that tells me I don't like this idea!
ratherwhalering	posted 02-06-2004 03:17 PM ET (US) There goes my confidence...
Morocco	posted 02-06-2004 03:43 PM ET (US) Well, my 25 Revenge has TWO fuel filters (one for each engine) mounted by the factory inside the starboard aft 'battery hatch.' It is maybe 2 feet from the battery box, and closer to a small bus bar, and the starboard battery on/off/lock switch. I think Larry's reservations are quite sound, and I agree with them, but so far it hasn't been a problem, thank god. I assume that Whaler thought so too when it installed them there, but even so I take great care to put up some sort of 'shield' (even if only a couple of dry towels)whenever I'm changine them or draining them, and I am alway alert for the smell of gas. You'll be okay, I think.
Abaco	posted 02-06-2004 03:53 PM ET (US) I would tend to agree with LHG. If only because if you get water in your fuel and some engine problem you may forget to turn off all the electronic before you pull off the filter. Too much bad stuff can go wrong.
lhg	posted 02-06-2004 06:31 PM ET (US) Morroco - If you have a 25 Revenge, any year, the filters were not installed by the factory unless it began life as a Sea Drive. Some Dealership or owner did this, not BW, as filters were not a factory option. My boats both came with factory stickers saying "installation of a water separting fuel filter strongly recommended". (because of the internal tank) On my 25 full transom, I installed my two filters in this fairly large, full boat width space, centered on the upper center of the transom, just under the covering deck. The batteries, in each corner and in Whaler boxes, are about 4' away, each direction. This space is well ventilated, with air flowing in through 4 rod holders on each side, and except for jump starting a battery, in which case the hatches would be opened, no other chance for electical sparks. No switches or other electrical connections are back there. There is just something about the smaller, more enclosed size of a console that concerns me, and having this potential right in my face. Admittedly, filters have to be air-tight to function, but when being changed there is plenty of chance for spillage and vapors. I have never seen an Outrage with filters in the console. On a Montauk, where almost by definition, portable tanks don't pick up condensation, and hence don't require the water separating filters.
Morocco	posted 02-09-2004 03:06 AM ET (US) Larry, You're probably right -- I would imagine that the hull would have been shipped bare to the dealer and rigged with the engines and the like locally, but I don't know this for sure. I do know that the power configuration is exactly as the boat came with, new. The guy I bought it from provided the original invoices from the first owner (I'm the third) and it was delivered with those engines on day one, so unless BW shipped it from MA to Southern CA with the Johnsons already on, it must have been done at the dealership. Mark
triblet	posted 02-09-2004 08:34 AM ET (US) Doesn't an enclosed space with fuel require a blower? Chuck
ratherwhalering	posted 02-09-2004 01:26 PM ET (US) Thanks for the replies. I think Larry has some excellent points regarding ventalation and proximity to electrical connections. I dry mounted the filter this weekend, and it is well out of the way, but then again it is 1.5' from the ignition and main buss bar. The louvers in the two doors provide some amount of ventalation, but I'm not sure this is enough. If I do mount the filter in this location, I will add additional ventalation to the fire extinguisher box since it is so close to the filter itself. In any case, I will have to be VERY careful when changing out the filter, regardless of location. Since my battery is located in the stern, remotely disconnecting the power supply should not be a problem.
logjamslam	posted 02-09-2004 03:32 PM ET (US) lhg's posts are entertaining and totaly true; I believe he has the right idea as far as setting up his boat. Nobody plans on having a fire aboard but when it happens how the boat is set up will determine whether you succeed in extinguishing a fire or lose the boat. If you lose the boat, how you have the boat set up may determine whether you live or die. Over the years I have had several fires aboard boats; the worst was a battery fire aboard a 25'whaler. A voltage regulater failed, overcharged a battery and the battery fried. If my boat had been set up like lhg's I would have put out the fire, disconnected the battery and run home. Instead I lost both batteries and both oil tanks. If the fuel filters had been in the same compartment I would have lost the boat for sure. As it was they were dangerously close and I could have easily lost the boat. The boat continued to run after the fire was out and I didn't shut everything down until I made a radio call for assistance. Now lets say that I shot my load of fire extinguishers and with all my fire fighting efforts I failed to put out the fire... I still had a few options. The boat continued to run until I turned it off so I could have made my distress call and headed for a nearby island While having crew don survival suits and ready emergency gear. If the engine quit before I got to the island we could have stayed on the bow waiting for help to arrive until the fire was so bad that we had to go over the side. Now lets say you some how get a fire going inside your console because of your racor or battery placement. Immediately you have a lot fewer options; you may no longer get to make your mayday call if your power lead burns. You may not get to stand there and drive the boat as long as it continues to run. How much of your emergency gear burned up before you could get to it? Since the fire is not contained in the stern you don't get to stand on the bow waiting for help for near as long before you go into the water. Now let's forget about fires. A Racor filter is probably one of the most important things you can do to make sure that your outboard keeps running. I can't think of a time that I changed one without spilling at least some gas. I would be a lot less inclined to drain or change a filter when I should if mine were located in the console; my subconscious thought would be "if i'm not messing with it then it's not leaking in my console" Greg
Swellmonster	posted 02-14-2004 01:29 PM ET (US) When my 20 Outrage was delivered new to me, it had a water separator back in the bilge, very accesable to the rear hatch opening. Problem was it was aluminum, and one day enough moisture caused a corrosion or oxidation problem, fuel leaked out and air leaked in causing loss of fuel to my motor, and probably leaked fuel in the bilge w/out me even knowing. I switched over to stainless...
cape_rover	posted 02-16-2004 05:42 PM ET (US) Those same wires that are in the console are also under the engine cover on my 70hp. The heavy guage wire that goes to the starter is right above the fuel filter but I've never had a problem and I don't think it is a suicidal design flaw... I would also opt for the stainless water seperator mount.