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Author Topic:   Downriggers on a montauk

webfoot posted 02-28-2004 08:36 PM ET (US)
Thinking of mounting downriggers on my '81. Any ideas? rails seem to be the most logical place, are they sturdy enough? What type of design?
alvispollard posted 02-28-2004 08:54 PM ET (US)
Go with Scotty. Put one on rail and you are in business. Have used mine for past 6 years and no problems.
webfoot posted 02-28-2004 08:57 PM ET (US)
What type of mounting system did you use?
Thanks
Dick posted 02-29-2004 11:18 AM ET (US)
webfoot
You can see the Scotty set up on my Montauk at.
www.homepage.mac.com/whaler1/PhotoAlbum4.html
Happy to answer questions if you have any.
Dick
andygere posted 02-29-2004 06:28 PM ET (US)
I used Canons (electric mini-mag) mounted on Canon rail mount with swivel base. The aluminum mounts are very sturdy, and mount on the rail at the T in the center. I am using the same set up on my Outrage with great results. One very nice feature of Canons is that the ball goes down under power, not using the clutch, so there are never any birds nests with the wire from a too fast decent.
h3oboy posted 03-24-2006 12:57 AM ET (US)
Hey dick, Off the subject... how do you like your merc 50?
carl lazar posted 03-25-2006 07:51 AM ET (US)
i have two outriggers that i would like to mount on my montauk where did you get the mounting brackets
carl lazar
my e amil is clazar5952@aol.com if you can send me the specs
Roarque posted 03-25-2006 10:15 AM ET (US)
downriggers should be located as close to the stern quarters as practical. The downrigger needs a long arm - 24 inch is about right and you should buy a swivel base to make it easier to access the lead weight ( the cannon ball ).
If you're fishing in close quarters and need to make a quick course correction. you want to be certain that your downrigger cable doesn't get wrapped in the prop of your engine.
srec1 posted 03-25-2006 11:32 AM ET (US)
i have been using short arm big jon downriggers with a custom mount on the railing about 2.5 feet from the aft end of the rail on a 67 nauset for 30 yrs. I have never had a fouling issue with the cable either using the kicker or the main in thousands of hours of use. Those railings are plenty sturdy
Tom W Clark posted 03-25-2006 11:38 AM ET (US)
Scotty. These are THE best downriggers made.
If you use a rail mount, do not make the mistake of using super long booms. 24" is plenty for a Montauk.
I have a pair of Scotty manuals, model #1080 I'd like to sell if you are interested.
Link posted 03-26-2006 05:09 PM ET (US)
Tom
I have a 1984 Montauk with permanently mounted downrigger platforms welded on to the rail. My brother sold me the boat and said I should get the longest downrigger I can get, he said to spread the lines. (He was fishing in the Pacific) I know nothing about downrigger but what I'm reading. We are on inland lakes fishing for lake trout and walleye and would really don't want to spend extra for longer booms. I would love to check your outriggers but not for a year or so. I really need a trolling motor first but what are you asking for them anyway.
Larry
Roarque posted 03-27-2006 01:27 AM ET (US)
srec, I hear you but in the height of salmon season, the boats in the Alberni Inlet are about 50 feet apart as they troll. You feel like you're in a slo mo parade.
Last year, there I was with my Scottys on the rail mount on a Sport 15 and the guy trolling towards me cut right in front of me - I had maybe 3 seconds to avert a direct hit and cranked the helm hard to starboard. I avoided him and put the engine in neutral to inspect the damage. My starboard Scooty was fine but the port side downrigger cable had found its way between the prop and the engine's lower unit. Fortunately putting the engine into neutral had mitigated the disaster and I was able to "unwind" the downrigger cable fairly easily.
As he passed me, he sheepishly offered an apology - "I didn't see you", he almost whispered across the chasm between our hulls. He must have been in his eighties - I shrugged my shoulders and got to work, untangling the mess.
So that's why I say you should put the Scotty downriggers as close to the stern quarter as possible - that day, mine were about 42 inches away from the stern and clamped to the rail. Never done that again.
Tom W Clark posted 03-27-2006 01:50 AM ET (US)
Larry,
The reason you do not want long booms is that the rails on the Montauk are strong, but not that strong. A 48" boom will exert twice the torque on the rails as a 24" boom.
Some downriggers have booms that telescope to as much as 60" or more. Thats two and half times as much torque or, to look at it another way, at whatever maximum level of torque is safe for the Montauk's side rails, you would only be able to use half as much weight (only 40 percent as much weight with the 60") as with the shorter 24" booms.
Yes, separation is nice, but with the 24" booms there is plenty. If gaining another 48" of width is that important, you need a bigger boat.
Greg,
I do not recommend placing downriggers near the stern. Downriggers should be where you can get to them easily, not leaning back over something.
Perhaps there are different ways of using downriggers. Around here trolling for Salmon, we use 10 pounds lead balls that take the downrigger cable DOWN, not aft. Even when trolling very fast for Coho, my downrigger cables never stream more than 45 degrees from vertical. There is no way the cable will reach the prop unless the downrigger is close to the stern.
For the Outrage 18 this placement of the downriggers, shown in the following photo, I have found to be optimal:
http://home.comcast.net/~tomwclark/18outrage200dpi.jpeg
srec1 posted 03-27-2006 09:42 PM ET (US)
Tom I also have a 94 outrage that I have mounted big johns in the exact same position as you have. works great. 50 foot between boats is a luxury where I salmon fish during the height of the season in west grand traverse bay in michigan. I kid you not, 10 feet between trolling boats is not unusual at peak times. we are experts here in northern lower michigan at downrigger control and avoidance. Short leads are the rule, no more than 15 foot and 10 to 15 Lb cannon balls. Actually I prefer the pancake variety as it produces a little less resistance and cuts thru the water a little better.
Finally got a Whaler posted 03-29-2006 10:00 PM ET (US)

Greetings from Campbell River, our local fishing resorts use Whalers a ton all equipped with scotty riggers off the rail. Scotty makes a rail mount kit and swivel base that is great. Make sure to install the support plate that the kit is recessed for. 3/4" plywood or even better polly will inset into rail mount then it rests on guwhale to give that extra support. Any questions give a holler..
Cheers Gord.
cosmo posted 04-02-2006 07:12 PM ET (US)
I to have Scotty downriggers I use on a Montauk (believe they are the Strongarm model that telescope from 30-48", had for 19yrs)and the "swivel base". After using the rail adapter mount and seeing how much stress a 10 lb ball in a swell puts on the rail and mounting, I switched to spanning a 2x6 between the rails and securing the board to the rails using a "rod holder" rail mount adapter which clamps the board very securely to the railing. The downriggers can then be mounted anywhere you like on the board. I have a 10yr old son that goes out with me and I didn't like him being so close to the railing in sea's. Just move the board forward and aft until you find the sweet spot.

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Author	Topic: Downriggers on a montauk
webfoot	posted 02-28-2004 08:36 PM ET (US) Thinking of mounting downriggers on my '81. Any ideas? rails seem to be the most logical place, are they sturdy enough? What type of design?
alvispollard	posted 02-28-2004 08:54 PM ET (US) Go with Scotty. Put one on rail and you are in business. Have used mine for past 6 years and no problems.
webfoot	posted 02-28-2004 08:57 PM ET (US) What type of mounting system did you use? Thanks
Dick	posted 02-29-2004 11:18 AM ET (US) webfoot You can see the Scotty set up on my Montauk at. www.homepage.mac.com/whaler1/PhotoAlbum4.html Happy to answer questions if you have any. Dick
andygere	posted 02-29-2004 06:28 PM ET (US) I used Canons (electric mini-mag) mounted on Canon rail mount with swivel base. The aluminum mounts are very sturdy, and mount on the rail at the T in the center. I am using the same set up on my Outrage with great results. One very nice feature of Canons is that the ball goes down under power, not using the clutch, so there are never any birds nests with the wire from a too fast decent.
h3oboy	posted 03-24-2006 12:57 AM ET (US) Hey dick, Off the subject... how do you like your merc 50?
carl lazar	posted 03-25-2006 07:51 AM ET (US) i have two outriggers that i would like to mount on my montauk where did you get the mounting brackets carl lazar my e amil is clazar5952@aol.com if you can send me the specs
Roarque	posted 03-25-2006 10:15 AM ET (US) downriggers should be located as close to the stern quarters as practical. The downrigger needs a long arm - 24 inch is about right and you should buy a swivel base to make it easier to access the lead weight ( the cannon ball ). If you're fishing in close quarters and need to make a quick course correction. you want to be certain that your downrigger cable doesn't get wrapped in the prop of your engine.
srec1	posted 03-25-2006 11:32 AM ET (US) i have been using short arm big jon downriggers with a custom mount on the railing about 2.5 feet from the aft end of the rail on a 67 nauset for 30 yrs. I have never had a fouling issue with the cable either using the kicker or the main in thousands of hours of use. Those railings are plenty sturdy
Tom W Clark	posted 03-25-2006 11:38 AM ET (US) Scotty. These are THE best downriggers made. If you use a rail mount, do not make the mistake of using super long booms. 24" is plenty for a Montauk. I have a pair of Scotty manuals, model #1080 I'd like to sell if you are interested.
Link	posted 03-26-2006 05:09 PM ET (US) Tom I have a 1984 Montauk with permanently mounted downrigger platforms welded on to the rail. My brother sold me the boat and said I should get the longest downrigger I can get, he said to spread the lines. (He was fishing in the Pacific) I know nothing about downrigger but what I'm reading. We are on inland lakes fishing for lake trout and walleye and would really don't want to spend extra for longer booms. I would love to check your outriggers but not for a year or so. I really need a trolling motor first but what are you asking for them anyway. Larry
Roarque	posted 03-27-2006 01:27 AM ET (US) srec, I hear you but in the height of salmon season, the boats in the Alberni Inlet are about 50 feet apart as they troll. You feel like you're in a slo mo parade. Last year, there I was with my Scottys on the rail mount on a Sport 15 and the guy trolling towards me cut right in front of me - I had maybe 3 seconds to avert a direct hit and cranked the helm hard to starboard. I avoided him and put the engine in neutral to inspect the damage. My starboard Scooty was fine but the port side downrigger cable had found its way between the prop and the engine's lower unit. Fortunately putting the engine into neutral had mitigated the disaster and I was able to "unwind" the downrigger cable fairly easily. As he passed me, he sheepishly offered an apology - "I didn't see you", he almost whispered across the chasm between our hulls. He must have been in his eighties - I shrugged my shoulders and got to work, untangling the mess. So that's why I say you should put the Scotty downriggers as close to the stern quarter as possible - that day, mine were about 42 inches away from the stern and clamped to the rail. Never done that again.
Tom W Clark	posted 03-27-2006 01:50 AM ET (US) Larry, The reason you do not want long booms is that the rails on the Montauk are strong, but not that strong. A 48" boom will exert twice the torque on the rails as a 24" boom. Some downriggers have booms that telescope to as much as 60" or more. Thats two and half times as much torque or, to look at it another way, at whatever maximum level of torque is safe for the Montauk's side rails, you would only be able to use half as much weight (only 40 percent as much weight with the 60") as with the shorter 24" booms. Yes, separation is nice, but with the 24" booms there is plenty. If gaining another 48" of width is that important, you need a bigger boat. Greg, I do not recommend placing downriggers near the stern. Downriggers should be where you can get to them easily, not leaning back over something. Perhaps there are different ways of using downriggers. Around here trolling for Salmon, we use 10 pounds lead balls that take the downrigger cable DOWN, not aft. Even when trolling very fast for Coho, my downrigger cables never stream more than 45 degrees from vertical. There is no way the cable will reach the prop unless the downrigger is close to the stern. For the Outrage 18 this placement of the downriggers, shown in the following photo, I have found to be optimal: http://home.comcast.net/~tomwclark/18outrage200dpi.jpeg
srec1	posted 03-27-2006 09:42 PM ET (US) Tom I also have a 94 outrage that I have mounted big johns in the exact same position as you have. works great. 50 foot between boats is a luxury where I salmon fish during the height of the season in west grand traverse bay in michigan. I kid you not, 10 feet between trolling boats is not unusual at peak times. we are experts here in northern lower michigan at downrigger control and avoidance. Short leads are the rule, no more than 15 foot and 10 to 15 Lb cannon balls. Actually I prefer the pancake variety as it produces a little less resistance and cuts thru the water a little better.
Finally got a Whaler	posted 03-29-2006 10:00 PM ET (US) Greetings from Campbell River, our local fishing resorts use Whalers a ton all equipped with scotty riggers off the rail. Scotty makes a rail mount kit and swivel base that is great. Make sure to install the support plate that the kit is recessed for. 3/4" plywood or even better polly will inset into rail mount then it rests on guwhale to give that extra support. Any questions give a holler.. Cheers Gord.
cosmo	posted 04-02-2006 07:12 PM ET (US) I to have Scotty downriggers I use on a Montauk (believe they are the Strongarm model that telescope from 30-48", had for 19yrs)and the "swivel base". After using the rail adapter mount and seeing how much stress a 10 lb ball in a swell puts on the rail and mounting, I switched to spanning a 2x6 between the rails and securing the board to the rails using a "rod holder" rail mount adapter which clamps the board very securely to the railing. The downriggers can then be mounted anywhere you like on the board. I have a 10yr old son that goes out with me and I didn't like him being so close to the railing in sea's. Just move the board forward and aft until you find the sweet spot.