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Author Topic:   removing a galled engine bolt

RocketMan posted 03-09-2005 12:06 PM ET (US)
I've searched the forum and have yet to find an old thread (no pun intended)on this. Keywords are engine, bolt, seize, gall, remove.
What tricks are there for removing engine bolts that are starting to gall that will avoid overtorquing to the point twisting off the bolt head?
My technique of working the bolt back and forth patiently hasn't worked yet. I'm trying to torque up or remove a bolt that has galled about half-way in/out.
Oh, the pain of twisting that bolt head off.....
jeffs22outrage posted 03-09-2005 12:41 PM ET (US)
PB pentrating oil has been the key for my friends and I when trying to remove stuck bolts on turbo down pipes and other car bits. Spray it and let it sit for a 1/2hour or so repeat till it comes out. Or just coat it and let it sit over night.
Sorry that is all I got...
grandpas68 posted 03-09-2005 01:45 PM ET (US)
I second the PB Blaster.
jxs226 posted 03-09-2005 03:08 PM ET (US)
Heat! Of course, you have to be extremely careful when using a torch around anything flammable, explosive or heat sensitive (ie. electronics). Assuming you can do so safely, a propane torch used to heat and expand the metal surrounding the bolt ought to work. With a propane torch, it's almost impossible to melt aluminum. Apply PB Blaster penetrating oil after heating too as the heat will draw the oil in quickly. You need to get the metal surrounding the bolt VERY hot! Roughly speaking, heat for ~1+ minute before attempting to remove bolt.
grandpas68 posted 03-09-2005 04:17 PM ET (US)
JXS, thank you for that explanation. I wanted to mention heat but I am not familiar with the procedure enough to guide someone through it without the fear of causing them to blow themselves up.
jxs226 posted 03-09-2005 04:23 PM ET (US)
Sure thing, grandpas68. I too was very reluctant to use a torch to remove frozen bolts until shown how to go about it by an experienced person.
where2 posted 03-09-2005 10:32 PM ET (US)
I was completely amazed by the sight of a torch in use by my favorite mechanic. As I stood in wonder at how one removes the lower powerhead bolts from an older engine without snapping all of them off, he fired up his torch, held it on the block for 45-60 seconds, then took his electric impact wrench and backed the bolt out effortlessly.
This brought to mind the fact that some jobs are MUCH easier with the right tools. When I saw him do this, I had recently spent the better part of an afternoon drilling the block and installing a heli-coil...
Sal DiMercurio posted 03-09-2005 10:45 PM ET (US)
Regular medical peroxide works wonds on any exhaust bolts & coke a cola is known to free up gallded bolts also.
Coke will completely dissolve a 16 penny nail in a couple days if left in a cup covered with coke.
Ever wonder what it does to your guts?
Sal
rves posted 03-10-2005 02:31 PM ET (US)
In aluminum , heat the bolt if possible not the surrounding metal ! the heat will migrate to the surrounding metal and the two dissimilar metals will cool at a different rate cuasing the maximum clearance at one point! Apply even pressure while on the cool down and when utopia is reached (you will feel it) unscrew the bolt until the resistance increases , then repeat! Befcareful with the spray lube! I caught myself on fire a few weeks ago ( very painful) and the gleem in my wifes eyes when she pointed the fire extinguisher at me and pulled the trigger continues to haunt me ! good luck T
RocketMan posted 03-10-2005 05:35 PM ET (US)
Heat, Baby. That's the consensus. And don't send a boy.
Will give it a go next weekend, specifically the rves suggestion. Because this is an exhaust cover bolt, it will be much easier to heat the bolt threads through conduction down the bolt than it will using an approach from the surrounding block where the bolt is threaded. This is because there is an exhaust cover/spacer cover and the exhaust chamber itself providing distance and acting as shield/heat sink and insulator.
Vive la forum..... merci.
where2 posted 03-10-2005 09:54 PM ET (US)
I could give you the number of a good mechanic in Stuart. However, you seem to be on a mission with good advice thus far. Locate one of the few "true" mechanics left at PW and have them bring their torch over under your shade tree, unless you happen to have a neighbor with a torch. My neighbor with a torch (Ex-PW engineer) moved back to Virginia, so I'm torchless. (I guess I'll have to take a welding class so I can get certified to get my own gas).
lpaton posted 03-11-2005 07:16 AM ET (US)
I have used a product called Walter Cold Shock with success. I gently heat the whole area with a heat gun then spray the product on the bolt head or stud. Not too hot! That stuff is flammable and will catch fire (I know). Try without heating first after letting penetrating oil soak for a while or overnight.
http://www.jwalterinc.com/walter_us/servlet/Home
bear99 posted 03-11-2005 10:43 PM ET (US)
A buddy showed me this trick years ago. Not on an engine bolt but I am sure it would work with caution.
Stick the tip of of a welding rod to the bolt and hold it there until the bolt JUST starts to turn red.
Unscrew bolt.
Brad
where2 posted 03-12-2005 10:29 PM ET (US)
lpaton said: "That stuff is flamable and will catch fire!" referring to "Cold Shock". Having never heard of this stuff, I went to their website (thanks for the link). Not being very specific about what was in this stuff, I found a link to the MSDS for it. 40-60% Butane! 10-20% Isobutane! 10-20% Propane! 5-10% Kerosine! (their spelling, not mine)
A chiller and lubricant in one handy can. Just don't smoke or use this stuff near any sourses of ignition!

RocketMan posted 03-19-2005 07:31 AM ET (US)
Surgery (bolt) is today. Will let you all know how it turns out. But first, a moment of silence, a short prayer . . . and a cup of coffee.
RocketMan posted 03-19-2005 09:21 AM ET (US)
Success! Bolt is out in one piece. The general method outlined by rves above was used without lube and worked as advertised.
Procedure used was to heat bolt head with propane torch until hot as it was going to get. Waited a few minutes for heat transfer to take place inside. Then, added a step by holding an ice cube on the bolt head to more rapidly cool the bolt to maximixe the temperature difference inside at the threads. Then applied torque using a torque wrench not to exceed 1.5 x normal bolt torque.
Bolt initially backed out about a turn before torque started to go above 1.5x limit. Heating-cooling process repeated twice for about another half turn and no more progress. Ran engine to heat engine block/heat sink and repeated process. Bolt started backing out again and when torque started to exceed 1.5x, changed to torque direction until bolt moved slightly then changed back to untorque direction. Patience. After about 1-2 turns had to reheat and cool. Another 2-3 turns accomplished then torque started to decrease while turnng bolt and the rest is history.
Am happily on way to get another bolt. Thanks, rves/forum.

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Author	Topic: removing a galled engine bolt
RocketMan	posted 03-09-2005 12:06 PM ET (US) I've searched the forum and have yet to find an old thread (no pun intended)on this. Keywords are engine, bolt, seize, gall, remove. What tricks are there for removing engine bolts that are starting to gall that will avoid overtorquing to the point twisting off the bolt head? My technique of working the bolt back and forth patiently hasn't worked yet. I'm trying to torque up or remove a bolt that has galled about half-way in/out. Oh, the pain of twisting that bolt head off.....
jeffs22outrage	posted 03-09-2005 12:41 PM ET (US) PB pentrating oil has been the key for my friends and I when trying to remove stuck bolts on turbo down pipes and other car bits. Spray it and let it sit for a 1/2hour or so repeat till it comes out. Or just coat it and let it sit over night. Sorry that is all I got...
grandpas68	posted 03-09-2005 01:45 PM ET (US) I second the PB Blaster.
jxs226	posted 03-09-2005 03:08 PM ET (US) Heat! Of course, you have to be extremely careful when using a torch around anything flammable, explosive or heat sensitive (ie. electronics). Assuming you can do so safely, a propane torch used to heat and expand the metal surrounding the bolt ought to work. With a propane torch, it's almost impossible to melt aluminum. Apply PB Blaster penetrating oil after heating too as the heat will draw the oil in quickly. You need to get the metal surrounding the bolt VERY hot! Roughly speaking, heat for ~1+ minute before attempting to remove bolt.
grandpas68	posted 03-09-2005 04:17 PM ET (US) JXS, thank you for that explanation. I wanted to mention heat but I am not familiar with the procedure enough to guide someone through it without the fear of causing them to blow themselves up.
jxs226	posted 03-09-2005 04:23 PM ET (US) Sure thing, grandpas68. I too was very reluctant to use a torch to remove frozen bolts until shown how to go about it by an experienced person.
where2	posted 03-09-2005 10:32 PM ET (US) I was completely amazed by the sight of a torch in use by my favorite mechanic. As I stood in wonder at how one removes the lower powerhead bolts from an older engine without snapping all of them off, he fired up his torch, held it on the block for 45-60 seconds, then took his electric impact wrench and backed the bolt out effortlessly. This brought to mind the fact that some jobs are MUCH easier with the right tools. When I saw him do this, I had recently spent the better part of an afternoon drilling the block and installing a heli-coil...
Sal DiMercurio	posted 03-09-2005 10:45 PM ET (US) Regular medical peroxide works wonds on any exhaust bolts & coke a cola is known to free up gallded bolts also. Coke will completely dissolve a 16 penny nail in a couple days if left in a cup covered with coke. Ever wonder what it does to your guts? Sal
rves	posted 03-10-2005 02:31 PM ET (US) In aluminum , heat the bolt if possible not the surrounding metal ! the heat will migrate to the surrounding metal and the two dissimilar metals will cool at a different rate cuasing the maximum clearance at one point! Apply even pressure while on the cool down and when utopia is reached (you will feel it) unscrew the bolt until the resistance increases , then repeat! Befcareful with the spray lube! I caught myself on fire a few weeks ago ( very painful) and the gleem in my wifes eyes when she pointed the fire extinguisher at me and pulled the trigger continues to haunt me ! good luck T
RocketMan	posted 03-10-2005 05:35 PM ET (US) Heat, Baby. That's the consensus. And don't send a boy. Will give it a go next weekend, specifically the rves suggestion. Because this is an exhaust cover bolt, it will be much easier to heat the bolt threads through conduction down the bolt than it will using an approach from the surrounding block where the bolt is threaded. This is because there is an exhaust cover/spacer cover and the exhaust chamber itself providing distance and acting as shield/heat sink and insulator. Vive la forum..... merci.
where2	posted 03-10-2005 09:54 PM ET (US) I could give you the number of a good mechanic in Stuart. However, you seem to be on a mission with good advice thus far. Locate one of the few "true" mechanics left at PW and have them bring their torch over under your shade tree, unless you happen to have a neighbor with a torch. My neighbor with a torch (Ex-PW engineer) moved back to Virginia, so I'm torchless. (I guess I'll have to take a welding class so I can get certified to get my own gas).
lpaton	posted 03-11-2005 07:16 AM ET (US) I have used a product called Walter Cold Shock with success. I gently heat the whole area with a heat gun then spray the product on the bolt head or stud. Not too hot! That stuff is flammable and will catch fire (I know). Try without heating first after letting penetrating oil soak for a while or overnight. http://www.jwalterinc.com/walter_us/servlet/Home
bear99	posted 03-11-2005 10:43 PM ET (US) A buddy showed me this trick years ago. Not on an engine bolt but I am sure it would work with caution. Stick the tip of of a welding rod to the bolt and hold it there until the bolt JUST starts to turn red. Unscrew bolt. Brad
where2	posted 03-12-2005 10:29 PM ET (US) lpaton said: "That stuff is flamable and will catch fire!" referring to "Cold Shock". Having never heard of this stuff, I went to their website (thanks for the link). Not being very specific about what was in this stuff, I found a link to the MSDS for it. 40-60% Butane! 10-20% Isobutane! 10-20% Propane! 5-10% Kerosine! (their spelling, not mine) A chiller and lubricant in one handy can. Just don't smoke or use this stuff near any sourses of ignition!
RocketMan	posted 03-19-2005 07:31 AM ET (US) Surgery (bolt) is today. Will let you all know how it turns out. But first, a moment of silence, a short prayer . . . and a cup of coffee.
RocketMan	posted 03-19-2005 09:21 AM ET (US) Success! Bolt is out in one piece. The general method outlined by rves above was used without lube and worked as advertised. Procedure used was to heat bolt head with propane torch until hot as it was going to get. Waited a few minutes for heat transfer to take place inside. Then, added a step by holding an ice cube on the bolt head to more rapidly cool the bolt to maximixe the temperature difference inside at the threads. Then applied torque using a torque wrench not to exceed 1.5 x normal bolt torque. Bolt initially backed out about a turn before torque started to go above 1.5x limit. Heating-cooling process repeated twice for about another half turn and no more progress. Ran engine to heat engine block/heat sink and repeated process. Bolt started backing out again and when torque started to exceed 1.5x, changed to torque direction until bolt moved slightly then changed back to untorque direction. Patience. After about 1-2 turns had to reheat and cool. Another 2-3 turns accomplished then torque started to decrease while turnng bolt and the rest is history. Am happily on way to get another bolt. Thanks, rves/forum.