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Author Topic:   OUTRAGE 18: Fuel Tank Cover
mike pape posted 05-18-2005 06:41 PM ET (US)   Profile for mike pape   Send Email to mike pape  
News on restoring my 1986 OUTRAGE 18: about a month ago I ordered the fuel tank cover from Gus at Brunswick. Today Whaler called. They had to call Gus to order it because Brunswick do not take orders from the general public. Whaler said that the mold to make the cover is broken and will take three months to fix. Then after that they will be able to get to the cover. The cover takes them about a month in a half to make, then ship. So now I would be looking at 4-5 months to get the cover. I have to paint it because it only comes in white or gray. I decided to cancel my order.

Now I wish to make the cover out of teak. I know there is a person that did that to their boat. Can someone send me in the right direction about teak for the cover?

Thanks mike

jeffs22outrage posted 05-19-2005 12:16 PM ET (US)     Profile for jeffs22outrage  Send Email to jeffs22outrage     
Mike,

Here are photos of a 22 with a Wood floor....
http://photobucket.com/albums/v427/jeff_rohlfing/nice%2022/

Here is where you can buy the flooring at....
http://www.worldpanel.com/Marineplywoodsspecialty.htm

Buckda posted 05-19-2005 02:08 PM ET (US)     Profile for Buckda  Send Email to Buckda     
Mike -

You and I are in the same boat, so to speak.

Jeff linked a great site that gives an idea on costs, but I think you should call these folks: www.woodworkingforwatercraft.com to see what they're charging for a similar part.

I have no doubt it will be similarly expensive as the OEM cover from the commercial/government products division, but they use much thicker teak planking, rather than a veneer for the teak and holly decking.

Just a thought. I'm thinking that these folks are #1 on my list of folks to call to "find out" when I get serious about replacing my fuel tank cover...and I'm getting closer and closer since I found another soft spot this spring.

Regards,

Dave

Outrage18 posted 05-19-2005 03:40 PM ET (US)     Profile for Outrage18  Send Email to Outrage18     
How big is the Tank Cover?
How many pieces of Teak & Holly would you need?

-Paul

Buckda posted 05-19-2005 04:00 PM ET (US)     Profile for Buckda  Send Email to Buckda     
Approximately 8 by 5 feet, give or take. I don't have the exact measurements with me. The thickness is 3/4 inch, but I believe it is beveled a bit on the edges.

How much teak and how much holly you would need will depend largely on how thick you want the teak/holly surface and how wide you want each strip to be.

The reason I like the link I gave above is that they use 1/4 inch thick teak and holly laminated to 1/2 inch thick marine plywood, vs. the very thin laminate typically available (as in the other link above). I figure chances are good that you're gonna drop something on your floor eventually, and will have to sand the resultant scratch out. Would hate to sand through the laminate to the ply underneath, that's for sure.

Dave

jeffs22outrage posted 05-19-2005 04:41 PM ET (US)     Profile for jeffs22outrage  Send Email to jeffs22outrage     
on my 22 the cover was 4' wided by just over 10' long
jeffs22outrage posted 05-19-2005 04:43 PM ET (US)     Profile for jeffs22outrage  Send Email to jeffs22outrage     
BTW

Thanks Dave for the great site. I like the looks of their products.

Buckda posted 05-19-2005 04:53 PM ET (US)     Profile for Buckda  Send Email to Buckda     
Jeff -

Thanks for those measurements. Do you remember how big the "lip" was on your cover? (the thinner portion where the screws attached it to the boat?)

I bet the 18's floor then is more like 4 feet by 8 feet then. It's not a full 4 feet shorter in length, due to the additional livewell on the 20 and 22 foot hulls, and it may even be the exact same dimensions...but I wouldn't count on that.

I like that site to drool over their bow pulpits. Looks like they do very nice work.

Dave

jeffs22outrage posted 05-19-2005 06:59 PM ET (US)     Profile for jeffs22outrage  Send Email to jeffs22outrage     
Dave the edge lip was 4" wide... if I remember correctly
jeffs22outrage posted 05-19-2005 07:02 PM ET (US)     Profile for jeffs22outrage  Send Email to jeffs22outrage     
Dave here are images

http://www.whalercentral.com/fusion_images/22%20outrage%20Floor%20repair%20small_files/image031.jpg

http://www.whalercentral.com/fusion_images/22%20outrage%20Floor%20repair%20small_files/image030.jpg

http://www.whalercentral.com/fusion_images/22%20outrage%20Floor%20repair%20small_files/image032.jpg


jeffs22outrage posted 05-19-2005 07:03 PM ET (US)     Profile for jeffs22outrage  Send Email to jeffs22outrage     
OK well those links do not work....
jeffs22outrage posted 05-19-2005 07:08 PM ET (US)     Profile for jeffs22outrage  Send Email to jeffs22outrage     
These work

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v427/jeff_rohlfing/Floor%20repair/Floorsection.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v427/jeff_rohlfing/Floor%20repair/IMG_0733.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v427/jeff_rohlfing/Floor%20repair/IMG_0740.jpg

mike pape posted 05-19-2005 09:02 PM ET (US)     Profile for mike pape  Send Email to mike pape     
18 outrage is 125.5 inches by 48.5 inches
so 10' 5.5 inches by 4'
the fuel tank is bigger than 8 feet
jeff did you make the cover?
or did you have a company make it?
mike
jeffs22outrage posted 05-19-2005 09:10 PM ET (US)     Profile for jeffs22outrage  Send Email to jeffs22outrage     
Mike I did it myself with help from my Father. The article of the entire rebuild of my outrage should be finished and posted here soon.
mike pape posted 05-19-2005 10:20 PM ET (US)     Profile for mike pape  Send Email to mike pape     
jeff


i seen there is companys that would make it for me, but i can't seem to know how to give the measuremnts to them, on deck pates, and how the 4' then the slope to where the plywood would be

Buckda posted 08-08-2005 04:15 PM ET (US)     Profile for Buckda  Send Email to Buckda     
It seems that a teak replacement deck might be more difficult than first thought because of the odd dimensions. I've not yet been able to find decking that comes "one piece" in a larger than needed size (so that I can cut it to fit).

Suggestions?

Dave

Chesapeake posted 08-08-2005 05:19 PM ET (US)     Profile for Chesapeake  Send Email to Chesapeake     
Dave:

Check out a place in DesPlaines, IL called Owl Hardwood. They can likely get you whatever you want. If you needed a 12 foot long sheet of maring ply, they could probably handle that. In terms of the teak, if you told them you need X feet of teak 3"x1/4"x12' they could probably handle that. They might have to resaw it on the bandsaw, but I think they could make it happen.

Bulldog posted 08-08-2005 05:34 PM ET (US)     Profile for Bulldog  Send Email to Bulldog     
Dave, I would contact the site you recommended tell them some rough measurements and get a rough ballpark price, for a finished and also unfinished floor. They should be able to get you into some kind of price range , it could be a couple thousand dollars. I think the best thing would be to stick with your cover and check out having the plywood replaced by yourself or have it done by a local shop. You would be able to make sure it was done properly and go the extra distance when replacing it by caulking it better and possibly installing pumps as Jeff and I have. Do you really want a teak floor to take care of , and could you make that teak floor as non-slip as the one you have now? I've read your posts over time, you are using that boat, that teak floor might not let you use it as much. Read Jeff's article all the way through, you will see that there is a lot of work to it and once the console and floor are out, there are always the little things that add up. ................Jack
Buckda posted 08-08-2005 05:56 PM ET (US)     Profile for Buckda  Send Email to Buckda     
Jack -

You read my mind - that e-mail went out before I posted above.

I don't understand your comment re: unable to use the boat like I am now - could you explain? I already have plenty of teak aboard the boat, and it hasn't cramped my usage / activities one bit.

I'm pretty sure I don't want a project like Jeff had, and I'm relatively sure that's just what I have on my hands.

I realize there will be other projects too. While I'm doing the deck, I'll be replacing fuel filler and tank vent hoses, probably draining the tank cavity and figuring a way to keep it dry, and inspecting the tank. I'm also actually looking forward to re-routing some control cables and laying in a bit of guide-line for future rigging/de-rigging.

Bob - thanks for the pointer to that supplier. I'll google them and give them a call later this week.

Buckda posted 08-08-2005 06:17 PM ET (US)     Profile for Buckda  Send Email to Buckda     
Meant to say: I know that it's a huge project, and that there are other projects once I've "opened pandora's box", which is part of why I don't want to fart around with the repair: 1) I don't have a heated facility to work in this winter, and froze my pretty little toes off working on the boat last winter...believe me - a grand to just drop in the new floor is money well spent. Even Jeff mentioned that he would consider another option if he had to do it again.

I expect the ballpark to be about a grand to 1,500 bucks. The OEM part was offered by Whaler (in the wrong color) for just over a thousand bucks. I'd have to have it painted ($300?) anyway, so if it's 1,500 bucks or less, it might be pretty attractive.

It's probable that the tank is okay, since water doesn't really corrode aluminum and neither does gasoline...just the mixture of the two. My water separator/filter checks out clean and I've stirred the tanks pretty good this summer in some snotty and rough stuff. Of course, you can never tell until you're in there checking things out. I'm considering cutting a hole in the foam at the back of the tank like Jeff, sucking it dry and then refilling with foam, and then capping the tank off with a thick plastic barrier to keep condensate, etc running over the tank and into the sump instead of sitting on the tank and soaking into the foam and filling that cavity, although Jeff's solution seems pretty reasonable (except for the space used in the console...my console is already full of the remote oil tank, and two batteries).

Once I get into it, I'll post specifics about what I'm doing and what I'm changing, and ask for opinions and thoughts. Since this will be largely a weekend to weekend project (since the boat is 90 miles away from me), you all will have plenty of time to pooh-pooh my ideas, or shower them with kudos, as the situation may warrant. :)

Dave

mike pape posted 08-08-2005 10:08 PM ET (US)     Profile for mike pape  Send Email to mike pape     
i got a 10'x 4' teak board with rubber inserts and it fit easily with some trim off the sides
i also got a ten foot piece okoume plywood that i put under the teak, yes did do a little cuting and epoxy the under part seem to work great for me
i got the teak from specialty marine i beilive there web site
worldpanel.com, the guys there are great
plywood came from buckwoodcraft.com
Bulldog posted 08-09-2005 12:59 AM ET (US)     Profile for Bulldog  Send Email to Bulldog     
Dave, the comment about not using it as much, was in regards to maintaining the teak floor, I would think it will be much more work then maintaing gunnels, doors and such. I'm always amazed how dirty the floor gets with three guys fishing on my boat. I would think that perhaps teak oil would be the least slippery. I also pulled my floor this spring, and "drilled" a two inch hole at the rear of my tank cavity to the very bottom, I found no water in the foam, and my foam was not really retaining any as far as I could tell. I still sealed the dual fuel lines, ground wire and a 1/2" sump hose with 3M5200 and have installed a small 20GPM self priming pump (about1.5" round and maybe three inches high) in my bilge sump that is wired to a switch on the dash.......Jack
Buckda posted 08-09-2005 10:02 AM ET (US)     Profile for Buckda  Send Email to Buckda     
Quote on a finished floor with three coats of penetrating teak oil; 2 3/8" burmese teak strips and 1/4" black insets each by 1/4" thickness mounted on marine grade plywood that is West system epoxied: $1,300. 10-12 weeks production. That guy is busy!

Sounds about right where I thought it might be.

Dave

newt posted 08-09-2005 12:03 PM ET (US)     Profile for newt  Send Email to newt     
Ok, this may be a half-baked idea, but Lumber Liquidators has 3/4" teak, prefinished, T&G wood flooring for around $5-6/sf. You could buy the teak that you needed for $200, plane it down to 3/8" (to get rid of the finish and micro-bevels), laminate it onto a sheet of 3/8" marine plywood, and add the finish of your choice. If you wanted all long lengths, then you would need to buy probably twice the quantity and weed out all the shorts. Just a thought.
Buckda posted 10-17-2005 11:00 AM ET (US)     Profile for Buckda  Send Email to Buckda     
Okay.

The rotted floor is up, leaning on it's side and draining water. The underlying marine plywood is soggy mush, so I'm glad it's out. (The floor was pretty darn heavy - it took hurculean effort and the assistance of a rope tied off to a post in the barn where I keep the boat to get it lifted free...it must have been 250 pounds, and unwieldy!)

Now that my boat is a shell of it's former self, I'll clean up the area underneath and begin preparations for a new floor.

I'm going with the teak and rubber inlay decking, and am planning to use King brand starboard underneath so the deck will never rot again.

Any suggestions on 1.) an adhesive to glue these two dissimilar materials together, and 2.) any recommended treatment to the underside of the decking to prevent rot, warping, etc that should be done before bonding the two together?

I'm happy to report that underneath it all, there does not appear to be any water in the tank cavity, however I've not removed the foam to check. The foam is very sturdy (hard to the touch) and appears to be bone dry.

Thanks for the help.

Dave

Bulldog posted 10-17-2005 11:12 AM ET (US)     Profile for Bulldog  Send Email to Bulldog     
Dave, do yourself a favor and carefully drill about a two inch hole at the very rear of the cavity through the foam all the way to the fiberglass, if there is any water in the cavity or foam it will end up there. I found that there was no water in my foam or even really in the cavity. When I say drill , I took a 2' hole saw and turned it by hand down to the bottom.Check out my profile for a link to my boat pictures the one of the vent and fill lines will make sense when you see yours, my vent line actually had about a 2" dip in it that could collect gas and really stop the vent now it is all pitched to tank. Have fun......Jack
Buckda posted 10-17-2005 11:14 AM ET (US)     Profile for Buckda  Send Email to Buckda     
There's not 2 inches of foam at any point around that tank. There's like an inch, inch and a half, max to the sides. It really fills out the cavity very well.

Buckda posted 10-19-2005 09:58 AM ET (US)     Profile for Buckda  Send Email to Buckda     
Just an update on pricing. Deck replacement with 1/2 inch solid teak is pretty darn expensive. A teak with rubber inlay 4x10 sheet is $1,600.00

Combined with shipping and the necessary starboard for substrate, we're looking at double the cost of replacing the floor via Brunswick CGP, and pushing me back toward thoughts of repairing the floor via Jeff's example in the reference section.

I wonder if 1/4" thick would make a 50% PRICE difference?

Mike, is this in line with what you paid? Anyone out there have another source for these panels/decking besides worldpanel.com?

Buckda posted 10-19-2005 02:02 PM ET (US)     Profile for Buckda  Send Email to Buckda     
Also - FYI - fuel guage from the supplier listed in the OEM section of this site costs under $10. Mine is/has been broken since I owned the boat. It reads fine, but the holder is broken, so it has a tendency to shift around.

Dave

Buckda posted 10-31-2005 01:17 PM ET (US)     Profile for Buckda  Send Email to Buckda     
Update -

Was talked out of using StarBoard as a backing substrate for the deck due to weight concerns. I'll be using two layers of 1/4" hardwood plywood, coated with WEST SYSTEM epoxy for protection, and mounted to the teak planking also via WEST SYSTEM epoxy.

Mike - Can you give me details on what you used as the rigging tunnel deckplate? In your photos, it is different from the Hawse-hole that is currently in the deck.

Also - opinions/advice on questions #1 and #2 above would be appreciated by the end of the week when I'll begin the epoxy process (Last weekend when temperatures are forecast to be appropriate for this activity).

Thanks.

Dave

Buckda posted 11-22-2005 02:22 PM ET (US)     Profile for Buckda  Send Email to Buckda     
Should not have let the salesman talk me out of the starboard backing - the replacement deck is well on the way to being finished. I have to finish some epoxy work on the backside and some trim work and then a final finish for the topsides; however this replacement is about 50 percent the weight of the deck it is replacing.

Whoa that thing is heavy - it must have either a lot of water in it, or just the glass and resin was very heavy.

Dave

Buckda posted 12-07-2005 11:14 PM ET (US)     Profile for Buckda  Send Email to Buckda     
Okay...not much progress in the past few weeks, but I do have some photos....

See "floor repair" album on the Buckda section of the www.photobucket.com site.

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