Completed Outrage 18 Sea Drive conversion (pictures.)

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Author Topic:   Completed Outrage 18 Sea Drive conversion (pictures.)

ratherwhalering posted 06-26-2005 11:55 PM ET (US)
Brian (Bosler18) and I finished a Sea Drive conversion on an 1985 Outrage 18 on Friday, and went out for a test run. Everything checked out, and the new (to us) Johnson 150HP engine purred like a kitten. We removed the sea drive, had the fiberglass repaired, mounted a 12-inch Slidemaster jackplate, installed a 1991 Johnson 150HP V-6, ran some new wiring harnesses through a T-H marine flange, added some OMC gauges, and attached a Seastar hydraulic cylinder.
Here is a picture of the Sea Drive when it was purchased months ago...right before it bought the farm:
http://photobucket.com/albums/v641/ratherwhalering/Original/?action=view¤t=8a9a10f6.jpg
and:
http://photobucket.com/albums/v641/ratherwhalering/Original/?action=view¤t=000_0051.jpg
And here are some pictures of the (almost) finished conversion...by the way, that's Matt's (Mfrymier) Outrage 18 on the inside.:
http://photobucket.com/albums/v641/ratherwhalering/Outrage%2018%20Bracket/
I'll be writing a detailed thread about this project, but I just wanted to post some pictures for the time being. I also wanted to say thank you to LHG for his patience and guidance, Jimh for his references and input, and countless others who answered my specific questions, and who contributed their own experiences either directly, or indirectly during my searches and research.
Cheers!
--Rob--

mtbadfish posted 06-27-2005 01:09 AM ET (US)
Rob,
Wonderful job on the installation. Much better looking setup. With the difference in set back do you notice any difference in the static trim?
17 bodega posted 06-27-2005 10:40 AM ET (US)
Those boats look like two peas in a pod. Just in time for the good salmon bite and rock cod.

ratherwhalering posted 06-27-2005 10:40 AM ET (US)
Yes, there is no question that it is higher in the stern. In fact, it almost looks normal now, compared to before the Sea Drive was removed, when it looked rather stern heavy. I figure we lost about 300 LBS in the stern. The sea drive unit was so heavy that we had to re-adjust the bow stop assembly on the trailer by about 6 -inches!
ratherwhalering posted 06-27-2005 11:41 AM ET (US)
Thanks, Steve...we actually took her out to Duxbury on Saturday and got skunked. The guy right next to us got a 25LB King, but that was all we saw the entire day. What a christening!
elaelap posted 06-27-2005 12:06 PM ET (US)
Great job, Rob. The bonus for all the hard work getting rid of the Sea Drive is that storage area in the stern and the clean-looking installation without all the fuel lines, wiring, steering cables, fuel water filter, etc, on display in the splash well. Plus, that boat is one of a kind for sure, and I for one love classy alterations to the classic Whalers. Can't wait to see her in person, and your buddy's got to be very jazzed...aren't you a little sorry you didn't keep her all for yourself?
Tony
Matt's boat (which I almost bought before he beat me to her) looks very sweet as usual...seeing OR 18s all cleaned up makes me ashamed of Cetaceous's raggedy condition halfway through salmon season, and causes me to long for the winter when I can get to work on her--!NOT!
ratherwhalering posted 06-27-2005 12:51 PM ET (US)
Tony, I should kept her to myself, but the wife would have had a fit! It was a good time anyway, working with Brian to get her running. The jackplate is a major aftermarket modification, but the OEM alternatives (Keeping the sea drive or replacing it with an Armstrong bracket) were not as appealing, and ultimately more expensive in labor, cost, and maintainence. Frankly, I just wanted to know if it could be done. Sometimes the Whaler purist in me has to take a back seat to functionality. Like the Pate gas tank and Raycor fuel filter in my Montauk, I think that some modifications are desireable and add value to the boat, while others do not.
--Rob--
P.S. Cetaceous is hardly raggedy, you sandbagger ;-)
LHG posted 06-27-2005 06:17 PM ET (US)
The project came out really nice. You guys did that in record time. Glad that it worked out, as I was worried about getting a bill for damages if it didn't!
As for the full tilt, it does look like the T & H 10" setback Hydro-jacker would have been the ultimate solution for lifting the engine out all the way.
So how does she run? Do you have the height dialed in yet?
Looks like a good SS prop is being used. A 19" Merc Laser II could be excellent for that rig, giving a solid 50 MPH, and faster than the 4 blade.
I think Matt needs a better prop on the Merc, or he's going to get his doors blown off by this rig. Those 4 bladed aluminum props are dogs
ratherwhalering posted 06-27-2005 08:28 PM ET (US)
Thanks again for your help Larry. I was waiting with baited breath to see how much tilt was available, and I am quite pleased with the result. I agree that a hydraulic unit would allow full tilt, but it was a bit too expensive. The 12-inch jackplate was a good compromise, especially because this boat will be trailered 95 percent of the time. For those weekends it is left in the water, I think it will be O.K. to have just the hub in the water.
The height is pretty low right now. She has excellent hole shot and turning, without any cavitation. At full throttle (not WOT yet because she still needs an adjustment, the throttle lever hits the dash) we see about 5000 RPM. She breaks free with some serious tilt, about 3/4 of the trim indicator maximum. It brings tears to your eyes to feel the speed...literally! We took her out salmon fishing in the Pacific this weekend, with some significant following seas, and never lost grip.
I think we'll try another two inches of adjustment on the jackplate and see where that gets us. I'd like to keep this low setting for rough conditions, so we'll probably raise the jackplate instead of the engine mounting. That way we can always go back to the "salmon" setting (actually the "skunk" setting!) and then raise it for the "leave-Matt-in-the-dust" setting. I really have not had time to inspect the prop, but it really seems to do the trick, although I will pass the 19" Merc Laser II sugguestion on to the finance committee ;-)
Couple of things I thought I'd mention. We used an existing hole for the control cable bundle and flange. It could have been a little farther starboard from the jackplate. We used a side mount Seastar cylinder on the starboard so we could use the existing hydraulic hoses, otherwise we would have reverse mounted it like you sugguested.
I respectfully disagree that Matt needs a new prop. That would REALLY be a waste of money. :-)
I forgot to thank Brian (Arbywhaler) for selling us that engine at such a great price, and throwing in the controls, harnesses, gauges, control box, and cables. The sea drive trim/tilt gauge and harness were incompatable, and it was nice to have the originals!
Bulldog posted 06-28-2005 07:43 AM ET (US)
Rob, moving the engine up with the bracket adjustment might give you a bit better performance then you think, and also two more inches of lift might get you almost out of the water at rest. It almost looks to me that you are at the same level as motor was on transome, so enjoy and play around to you get a good all around setting. I liked that boat he bought before but think it is much better now, tough break about that old motor giving up, no one wants to buy a boat then have the engine fail!...Jack
ratherwhalering posted 06-28-2005 10:46 AM ET (US)
Thanks Bulldog, I like it better now too, and I am excited to play around with the height. I hope that we'll see some significant increase in tilt when we raise the motor. Luckily, when Brian bought the boat, we basically paid for the hull only. We planned on replacing the sea drive from the start, but were hoping to hobble through the spring and summer. The engine seized 15 minutes into the maiden voyage, while I was driving! It's probably the best thing that ever happened to Brian because he had an indentured servant (me) for the last two months. She's quite a boat, and he won't be out-of-pocket any money if he ever decides to sell her. Anyway, it has been kind of fun getting her all put back together and trying this conversion. As far as I am aware, this is the only sea drive conversion using a jackplate. Of course this probably would not work on any other model whaler because the Outrage has such a low freeboard in the stern.
Anyway, look for a comprehensive performance report in the near future (absent any "before" data!) once I figure out how to use trim tabs. We have been running them fully retracted until we learn how to use them properly. The starboard one probably needs to be replaced, as it is painfully slow compared to the port. (sort of out of my element here because I have never used, much less repaired, trim tabs!)
ratherwhalering posted 06-29-2005 11:39 AM ET (US)
BTW: This is an useful tool for anyone having trouble with their Bennett Trim tabs:
http://www.bennetttrimtabs.com/trouble.htm
There is also a training program available! Just what the doctor ordered...
http://www.bennetttrimtabs.com/simulator.htm
jimh posted 06-29-2005 12:44 PM ET (US)
I was also looking at the trim limit and the skeg still in the water, but, as you mention, for a boat that sits on a trailer most of its life it should not be a problem.
ratherwhalering posted 06-30-2005 01:19 PM ET (US)
I hope it won't be a problem, Jim. I am really looking forward to raising the engine a few inches, and seeing how much more tilt becomes available. I really never expected the wide range of tilt it has now, and it would be icing on the cake if we could get full tilt with acceptable engine height.
Even so, I have seen plenty of other boats with the transmission hub in the water. If the boat were going to be moored for any significant amount of time, I might be inclined to add some anti-fouling paint on the submerged section (or more simply 60 lbs of salmon weights in the bow locker.) I note that due to the addition of a stern seat, Matt's engine also does not achieve full tilt, and a (smaller) portion of the hub is submerged.
Tom W Clark posted 04-08-2006 12:26 PM ET (US)
Less than a year later and anybody who wants to see the results of this fabulous project will be dead in the water because none of the photographic links above work.
I hate photobucket.

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Author	Topic: Completed Outrage 18 Sea Drive conversion (pictures.)
ratherwhalering	posted 06-26-2005 11:55 PM ET (US) Brian (Bosler18) and I finished a Sea Drive conversion on an 1985 Outrage 18 on Friday, and went out for a test run. Everything checked out, and the new (to us) Johnson 150HP engine purred like a kitten. We removed the sea drive, had the fiberglass repaired, mounted a 12-inch Slidemaster jackplate, installed a 1991 Johnson 150HP V-6, ran some new wiring harnesses through a T-H marine flange, added some OMC gauges, and attached a Seastar hydraulic cylinder. Here is a picture of the Sea Drive when it was purchased months ago...right before it bought the farm: http://photobucket.com/albums/v641/ratherwhalering/Original/?action=view¤t=8a9a10f6.jpg and: http://photobucket.com/albums/v641/ratherwhalering/Original/?action=view¤t=000_0051.jpg And here are some pictures of the (almost) finished conversion...by the way, that's Matt's (Mfrymier) Outrage 18 on the inside.: http://photobucket.com/albums/v641/ratherwhalering/Outrage%2018%20Bracket/ I'll be writing a detailed thread about this project, but I just wanted to post some pictures for the time being. I also wanted to say thank you to LHG for his patience and guidance, Jimh for his references and input, and countless others who answered my specific questions, and who contributed their own experiences either directly, or indirectly during my searches and research. Cheers! --Rob--
mtbadfish	posted 06-27-2005 01:09 AM ET (US) Rob, Wonderful job on the installation. Much better looking setup. With the difference in set back do you notice any difference in the static trim?
17 bodega	posted 06-27-2005 10:40 AM ET (US) Those boats look like two peas in a pod. Just in time for the good salmon bite and rock cod.
ratherwhalering	posted 06-27-2005 10:40 AM ET (US) Yes, there is no question that it is higher in the stern. In fact, it almost looks normal now, compared to before the Sea Drive was removed, when it looked rather stern heavy. I figure we lost about 300 LBS in the stern. The sea drive unit was so heavy that we had to re-adjust the bow stop assembly on the trailer by about 6 -inches!
ratherwhalering	posted 06-27-2005 11:41 AM ET (US) Thanks, Steve...we actually took her out to Duxbury on Saturday and got skunked. The guy right next to us got a 25LB King, but that was all we saw the entire day. What a christening!
elaelap	posted 06-27-2005 12:06 PM ET (US) Great job, Rob. The bonus for all the hard work getting rid of the Sea Drive is that storage area in the stern and the clean-looking installation without all the fuel lines, wiring, steering cables, fuel water filter, etc, on display in the splash well. Plus, that boat is one of a kind for sure, and I for one love classy alterations to the classic Whalers. Can't wait to see her in person, and your buddy's got to be very jazzed...aren't you a little sorry you didn't keep her all for yourself? Tony Matt's boat (which I almost bought before he beat me to her) looks very sweet as usual...seeing OR 18s all cleaned up makes me ashamed of Cetaceous's raggedy condition halfway through salmon season, and causes me to long for the winter when I can get to work on her--!NOT!
ratherwhalering	posted 06-27-2005 12:51 PM ET (US) Tony, I should kept her to myself, but the wife would have had a fit! It was a good time anyway, working with Brian to get her running. The jackplate is a major aftermarket modification, but the OEM alternatives (Keeping the sea drive or replacing it with an Armstrong bracket) were not as appealing, and ultimately more expensive in labor, cost, and maintainence. Frankly, I just wanted to know if it could be done. Sometimes the Whaler purist in me has to take a back seat to functionality. Like the Pate gas tank and Raycor fuel filter in my Montauk, I think that some modifications are desireable and add value to the boat, while others do not. --Rob-- P.S. Cetaceous is hardly raggedy, you sandbagger ;-)
LHG	posted 06-27-2005 06:17 PM ET (US) The project came out really nice. You guys did that in record time. Glad that it worked out, as I was worried about getting a bill for damages if it didn't! As for the full tilt, it does look like the T & H 10" setback Hydro-jacker would have been the ultimate solution for lifting the engine out all the way. So how does she run? Do you have the height dialed in yet? Looks like a good SS prop is being used. A 19" Merc Laser II could be excellent for that rig, giving a solid 50 MPH, and faster than the 4 blade. I think Matt needs a better prop on the Merc, or he's going to get his doors blown off by this rig. Those 4 bladed aluminum props are dogs
ratherwhalering	posted 06-27-2005 08:28 PM ET (US) Thanks again for your help Larry. I was waiting with baited breath to see how much tilt was available, and I am quite pleased with the result. I agree that a hydraulic unit would allow full tilt, but it was a bit too expensive. The 12-inch jackplate was a good compromise, especially because this boat will be trailered 95 percent of the time. For those weekends it is left in the water, I think it will be O.K. to have just the hub in the water. The height is pretty low right now. She has excellent hole shot and turning, without any cavitation. At full throttle (not WOT yet because she still needs an adjustment, the throttle lever hits the dash) we see about 5000 RPM. She breaks free with some serious tilt, about 3/4 of the trim indicator maximum. It brings tears to your eyes to feel the speed...literally! We took her out salmon fishing in the Pacific this weekend, with some significant following seas, and never lost grip. I think we'll try another two inches of adjustment on the jackplate and see where that gets us. I'd like to keep this low setting for rough conditions, so we'll probably raise the jackplate instead of the engine mounting. That way we can always go back to the "salmon" setting (actually the "skunk" setting!) and then raise it for the "leave-Matt-in-the-dust" setting. I really have not had time to inspect the prop, but it really seems to do the trick, although I will pass the 19" Merc Laser II sugguestion on to the finance committee ;-) Couple of things I thought I'd mention. We used an existing hole for the control cable bundle and flange. It could have been a little farther starboard from the jackplate. We used a side mount Seastar cylinder on the starboard so we could use the existing hydraulic hoses, otherwise we would have reverse mounted it like you sugguested. I respectfully disagree that Matt needs a new prop. That would REALLY be a waste of money. :-) I forgot to thank Brian (Arbywhaler) for selling us that engine at such a great price, and throwing in the controls, harnesses, gauges, control box, and cables. The sea drive trim/tilt gauge and harness were incompatable, and it was nice to have the originals!
Bulldog	posted 06-28-2005 07:43 AM ET (US) Rob, moving the engine up with the bracket adjustment might give you a bit better performance then you think, and also two more inches of lift might get you almost out of the water at rest. It almost looks to me that you are at the same level as motor was on transome, so enjoy and play around to you get a good all around setting. I liked that boat he bought before but think it is much better now, tough break about that old motor giving up, no one wants to buy a boat then have the engine fail!...Jack
ratherwhalering	posted 06-28-2005 10:46 AM ET (US) Thanks Bulldog, I like it better now too, and I am excited to play around with the height. I hope that we'll see some significant increase in tilt when we raise the motor. Luckily, when Brian bought the boat, we basically paid for the hull only. We planned on replacing the sea drive from the start, but were hoping to hobble through the spring and summer. The engine seized 15 minutes into the maiden voyage, while I was driving! It's probably the best thing that ever happened to Brian because he had an indentured servant (me) for the last two months. She's quite a boat, and he won't be out-of-pocket any money if he ever decides to sell her. Anyway, it has been kind of fun getting her all put back together and trying this conversion. As far as I am aware, this is the only sea drive conversion using a jackplate. Of course this probably would not work on any other model whaler because the Outrage has such a low freeboard in the stern. Anyway, look for a comprehensive performance report in the near future (absent any "before" data!) once I figure out how to use trim tabs. We have been running them fully retracted until we learn how to use them properly. The starboard one probably needs to be replaced, as it is painfully slow compared to the port. (sort of out of my element here because I have never used, much less repaired, trim tabs!)
ratherwhalering	posted 06-29-2005 11:39 AM ET (US) BTW: This is an useful tool for anyone having trouble with their Bennett Trim tabs: http://www.bennetttrimtabs.com/trouble.htm There is also a training program available! Just what the doctor ordered... http://www.bennetttrimtabs.com/simulator.htm
jimh	posted 06-29-2005 12:44 PM ET (US) I was also looking at the trim limit and the skeg still in the water, but, as you mention, for a boat that sits on a trailer most of its life it should not be a problem.
ratherwhalering	posted 06-30-2005 01:19 PM ET (US) I hope it won't be a problem, Jim. I am really looking forward to raising the engine a few inches, and seeing how much more tilt becomes available. I really never expected the wide range of tilt it has now, and it would be icing on the cake if we could get full tilt with acceptable engine height. Even so, I have seen plenty of other boats with the transmission hub in the water. If the boat were going to be moored for any significant amount of time, I might be inclined to add some anti-fouling paint on the submerged section (or more simply 60 lbs of salmon weights in the bow locker.) I note that due to the addition of a stern seat, Matt's engine also does not achieve full tilt, and a (smaller) portion of the hub is submerged.
Tom W Clark	posted 04-08-2006 12:26 PM ET (US) Less than a year later and anybody who wants to see the results of this fabulous project will be dead in the water because none of the photographic links above work. I hate photobucket.