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  Mercury 200 oil injection leak results in clacking sound

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Author Topic:   Mercury 200 oil injection leak results in clacking sound
andygere posted 09-25-2005 09:25 PM ET (US)   Profile for andygere   Send Email to andygere  
It may be the end of the line for my 1989 Mercury 200. This morning while out fishing, the engine started to make a noticeable clacking or rattling sound right after restarting to set a new drift. I immediately shut her down, and when I pulled the cowl, I discovered that the clear vinyl tubing on the discharge side of the oil injection pump was split and leaking oil. The tubing was brittle and came off in my hand when I tried to repair it. Prior to this, the motor started easily, and ran well at power. The usual blue smoke was present upon each start, however I have no way of knowing if the motor ran with only partial oil or no oil, and if so for how long. Naturally, we came in on the kicker rather than run the 200 any longer.

This afternoon, I replaced the tubing, and restarted the motor on a source of premixed gasoline as a precaution. She started with a bit of difficulty, and I let her run for a minute at idle before shutting her down. Again I heard a very noticeable rattling or clacking sound that was coming from within the powerhead. This is clearly not good news, and I'm sure some damage has been done. Can anyone with some similar experience venture to guess the possible extent of the damage? What typically fails first in a low oil/no oil situation? Is it rings and cylinder walls, crankshafts and bearings or something else? It will go into the shop ASAP for diagnosis, but I am bracing myself for a big repair bill, or a bigger purchase bill. Feel free to weigh in on the repair, replace powerhead, buy used, or buy new solution if you wish. It makes me sick to think that a 10 cent bit of tubing will wind up costing me thousands of dollars, but that's where I am today. At least the weather was decent and the kicker ran flawlessly the 5 or so miles back to the harbor so there was never any danger.

busted 15 posted 09-26-2005 09:40 AM ET (US)     Profile for busted 15    
had the same thing happen to a 99 25 merc a customer brought in a this spring,little return oil scavenging line that feeds the crank bearing and supplies the cylinder with lube came off the #2 lower cyl,it ran the cylinder dry overheated the cylinder and piston and connecting rod also damageing the crank journal,sorry about your loss thats a terrible way to loose a otherwise perfect engine
Buckda posted 09-26-2005 09:56 AM ET (US)     Profile for Buckda  Send Email to Buckda     
To those of you with similar vintage Mercs - consider changing this tube immediately. Mine was brittle and my mechanic replaced it on my '86 this spring. he said that when he touched it, it just broke. I was a hair's width from being in this same situation Andy.

Good luck on the diagnosis.. Hopefully it will be a fairly easy (and inexpensive) fix.

Dave

Bthom posted 09-26-2005 10:30 AM ET (US)     Profile for Bthom  Send Email to Bthom     
I would hazard a guess you have one or more pistons separated from their connecting rods. I went through a similar situation and it was the wrist pins that let go first.
On the repowering or replacement issue, I think you will find a replacement powerhead hard to find, considering the vintage of your engine.
Good luck,
Brian
kingfish posted 09-26-2005 11:04 AM ET (US)     Profile for kingfish  Send Email to kingfish     
Crapola, Andy-

I hope things turn out better for you than they sound-

John

andygere posted 09-26-2005 11:39 AM ET (US)     Profile for andygere  Send Email to andygere     
The sad thing is that I knew about this vulnerability, and had already replaced the injector feed tube. The injector discharge tube is smaller, and I didn't have any of that size on hand at the time. I inspected it and it looked ok, so figured it would wait a few weeks until I pulled the boat out for some fall maintenance chores. I had already purchased the tubing, and it was sitting on my workbench at home! My mechanic replaced the scavenging lines a few years ago, but overlooked these.

On the repair/replace decision, my gut feeling is to go with a replacement powerhead if I can get one, and get a few more years out of this motor. It is otherwise in great condition, has a new tilt ram and has always been an easy starter and strong runner.

Dave's advice for V6 Mercury owners is sound. Considering how critical the oiling system is to a 2-stroke motor, the design of this system is woefully inadequate. The lifeblood of these motors depends entirely on a few cents worth of plastic tubing, and some tiny plastic hose clamps. Don't count on your oil alarm system to save your powerhead, it won't. All it will tell you is when you are low on oil, or if the pump itself stops rotating. The alarm will NOT tell you if your engine is not getting oil. In my case, the protected systems were working, but the oil was dripping into the motor shroud instead of the fuel mixture.

gss036 posted 09-26-2005 02:13 PM ET (US)     Profile for gss036  Send Email to gss036     
http://www.boatmotors.com/motorparts/index.cgi?flag=1&part=101&manufacturer=3&year=1989&state=ct&zip=&hp=200&disp=&cyl=6
It will take about 8 hours labor to do the switch and test.
I kost a powerhead on my 89 200 in 90 and had a new powerhead installed. Back then total cost was about $3500. Today ??
LHG posted 09-26-2005 03:04 PM ET (US)     Profile for LHG    
Andy, I don't think the system design is woefully inadequate just because 16 year old tubing drys out and cracks. It seems like the mechanic should have just replaced items like that, as I know mine does. Just recently a mechanic looked at my 1988 Merc 150, and the first thing he said was "I'm going to replace your oil injection lines whether they need it or not."

Replacement 2.4 powerheads are readily available if yours can't be rebuilt for less. I would guess it's a $4000 job.

Or looking at it another way, here is your chance to try out a new 225 E-Tec, 3-star 225XS Optimax, or best yet, 225 VERADO? We need to see a Verado re-power on a classic 22!

BRP, at their Waukegan test facility, has a 22 Guardian with a pair of blue E-tec 90's on it that looks pretty cool also

andygere posted 09-26-2005 05:01 PM ET (US)     Profile for andygere  Send Email to andygere     
I think from a materials perspective, the design is poor. Based on the way that it failed, it seems that it was not compatible with heat and or oil over time. Again, I know that I could have prevented the failure if I (or my Mercury mechanic) had changed it out, but it still seems like if a more robust type of tubing was used, or better yet, hard plumbing, these motors would not be vulnerable to this type of failure. By the way, this is not a brand specific criticism, because I suspect the other manufacturers probably use something similar.

Regarding repair or repower, I do question the wisdom of putting $4k into a 16 year old engine. Still, investing $12-13k into a new motor that does pretty much what the old one did is a bitter pill to swallow. One thing I really like about my current set up is the light transom weight, a feature I'd like to preserve. On that basis, a 2.6 liter E-TEC 200 at 427 pounds is pretty attractive, and the 3.0 liter Optimax at 497 pounds isn't bad either. Twin E-TEC 90's sound pretty neat, but I wonder if performance would be marginal compared to what I've got. I also wonder if a single 90 will troll down slow enough to be effective for king salmon fishing. If I went with a Verado, I'd have to quit fishing, since the 650 pound weight wouldn't leave enough transom capacity for a kicker. I haven't really even thought about the other manufacturers, but there might be some other options. I was hoping that my decision to repower would be at least a couple of years out, and with the time to research, shop around, etc.

Buckda posted 09-26-2005 05:17 PM ET (US)     Profile for Buckda  Send Email to Buckda     
Andy...

Welcome to my world. Club members get cool wallet cards.

I would think that twin 90's is NOT the optimal choice, but I bet the single 90 would troll down fine for Kings with the sister motor still in the water dragging along.

The first two choices (E-Tec or Optimax) are probably your best bets. Optimax for speed and re-using controls/guages, E-Tec for quiet and the comfort of NOT needing a battery if yours fails.

Both should be pretty stingy on oil use and have great weight profiles.

Dave

gss036 posted 09-27-2005 01:53 PM ET (US)     Profile for gss036  Send Email to gss036     
This is very interesting information. After reading, I went out and pulled the cowling and checked the lines on my 89 Merc 200. All looked good, wiggled them around, they are still soft, but a little darker, maybe it is time I get some new ones and changed them before diaster strikes. What about the little crankcase vent lines? If one of those should come loose, what would happen? Just oil all over inside the cowling or would that also do damage?
Buckda posted 09-27-2005 02:36 PM ET (US)     Profile for Buckda  Send Email to Buckda     
The average American puts 15,000 miles a year on their automobile.

At 100,000 miles, it's recommended that owners inspect and replace hoses, belts, etc ("rubber and plastic plumbing"). That's just over 6 1/2 years of use.

I would think that every 10 years for an outboard, a similar inspection/replacement process should happen. It's the years/exposure, not the mileage. Seems like inexpensive insurance - have a 10-year check-up/tune-up on the engine and just go ahead and replace all rubber and plastic hoses and lines.

andygere posted 09-27-2005 03:51 PM ET (US)     Profile for andygere  Send Email to andygere     
gss036, I'd replace them regardless of how they look and feel. The tube that failed me looked fine and felt OK as well when I squeezed it in the middle. It failed on the hose ends, where it is pushed up onto the barb fitting. I suspect that the fittings transfer a fair amount of heat to the hose, which eventually kills it. My boat goes into the shop tonight, and I will talk with my mechanic about these tubes. I typically bring it in once per year to do lower unit oil/waterpump replacement, sync the carbs, and "anything else that looks suspect". This guy is typically very thorough, but I guess this time it slipped through the cracks. I'll update this thread when I learn the extent of the damage.
gss036 posted 09-27-2005 08:24 PM ET (US)     Profile for gss036  Send Email to gss036     
Just came back from town and a visit to both Merc shops. Neither had the tubes so they are on order. One shop said they had not sold any of the tubing in 6 years.That is surprising. I asked about the cranckase vent hoses and the mechanic, yeah, they are important because some of them lubericate the main crank bearings. My boat has always been stored indoors when not acutally on the water since I trailer so I am sure that helps w/exposure and also being in the Pacific Northwest where we don't have the high heat of the south and southwest.
LHG posted 09-27-2005 08:34 PM ET (US)     Profile for LHG    
Andy - Mercury has their own re-manufacturing facility, and offers re-manufactured long block powerheads on all engines, with a 1 year factory warranty. You can only get these through a dealer, obviously. I would put my money on one of those as opposed to an aftermarket re-build, of which there are many suppliers.

My guess is that your engine is not too badly damaged, and it will be cheaper to have your local operation repair it.
If the rest of your engine is in really good shape, it might be worth re-building. Be sure motor mounts are replaced, and the entire steering shaft is corrosion free also. They tend to rust out down at the bottom. I think an otherwise mint, cosmetically great outboard is the only one worth re-building, one that will LOOK and RUN like new once you're done. If the thing is a rusted, oxidized, cosmetic beater, I'd forget it.

After you factor in the cost of repair, remembering you will still have a relative gas guzzler, and after doing Jim's amortization calculations, I can't imagine how a new, or late model used, clean engine wouldn't make more sense.

My guess is that come Jan 1, all manufacturers will be offering 5 year warranties as incentives.

I think you had said you're interested in an E-tec. Maybe this is the time to do it.

You are in the position all of us have found ourselves in at one time or another. We use an engine 'til it drops, but then it is worth peanuts on a trade in, say $500. But to get it fixed, costs 4 or 5K, more than the engine could ever be worth. The secret is to not try and stretch an engine too long, and sell it while it still runs and looks great, for 2 or 3K. This takes willpower, but it is good money management.

I have been where you are, so I know how you feel.

jimh posted 09-27-2005 09:00 PM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
I love/hate to read discussions like this. The cowling is coming off my 1992 motor and all those lines are getting a close visual inspection!
busted 15 posted 09-27-2005 10:50 PM ET (US)     Profile for busted 15    
umm gss036 if ya carefully read post #2 it will tell ya what happens if that lil line falls off,cleaning up oil outta the pan will be the LEAST of your worrys
busted 15 posted 09-27-2005 10:52 PM ET (US)     Profile for busted 15    
ohhh, Andy how did ya make out with the black animal any word on damage etc
andygere posted 09-28-2005 01:18 AM ET (US)     Profile for andygere  Send Email to andygere     
Thanks for the advice guys. I pulled the boat out of the water and left it at my Mercury guy's shop this evening. I'll probably have a damage assessment by the end of the day tomorrow. My current motor is cosmetically quite good, has no corrosion (but I will take a close look at the steering shaft), and just had a new tilt ram installed this year. All that said, I agree with the idea that it probably is not prudent to invest a lot of cash in a 16 year old motor that has virtually no book value.

I am interested in the E-TECs, particularly the small block 200. I made a casual inquiry with my "local" Whaler dealer (and long-time Evinrude shop) and he told me he has a few in stock and that the lead time on them has been pretty reasonable in general. He also raved about the motors and told me his son was running one and was very pleased with it.

Although I knew the need to repower would come eventually, I was hoping to postpone it for at least another year or two. I can't help but wonder if I'd be wise to sit tight for a month or so and see what deals start to show up (leftover pricing, extended warranty, etc.)

andygere posted 09-28-2005 01:21 PM ET (US)     Profile for andygere  Send Email to andygere     
Bad news on my Mercury 200. Preliminary word on my motor is that a rod bearing went on one of the lower cylinders. There's metal debris on top of the piston, and the cylinder wall is heavily damaged. My mechanic said the other 5 cylinders look OK, which leads him to believe that the motor did not run without oil. I assume this means that even though the oil line was split and leaking, enough oil was getting mixed into the gas to provide necessary lubrication. Would that make the failed bearing just a coincidence? In a way I'd feel better about that, but I'm not buying the story just yet. Stay tuned...
gss036 posted 09-28-2005 03:07 PM ET (US)     Profile for gss036  Send Email to gss036     
That was about the way I lost my 1st powerhead, only the rod bearing came loos from the crank and sent the rod thru the block behind the starter. The cap actually looked like one nut came completely off the bolt, the other side was entact. The engine sounded like a tin can full of marbles, I still remember the sound even after all these years. Best of wishes on your decision to repair or replace.
I guess my decision would be to repower and I have exact same engine.
ecutlip posted 09-28-2005 05:50 PM ET (US)     Profile for ecutlip  Send Email to ecutlip     
Andy,

I'm very sorry about what happened. Like you, I really liked how that engine performed on that boat.

Eldon

Joe Kriz posted 09-28-2005 06:22 PM ET (US)     Profile for Joe Kriz  Send Email to Joe Kriz     
Andy,

Bummer. It is easy for all of us to tell you what we would do but I think you already have answered this question about replacing or repairing.

"it probably is not prudent to invest a lot of cash in a 16 year old motor that has virtually no book value".

Along with your statement I would mention that the newer engines will also give you better fuel economy, quiter, cleaner, etc... and very important, a warranty.

Good Luck in your choice of engines.
Let us know what you decide.

LHG posted 09-28-2005 06:42 PM ET (US)     Profile for LHG    
Andy seems to now be in the same place as Mario. What is it about the 22 Outrage Cuddys that blow up engines?

Andy, you might want to check out your value in that thread in Marketplace. I would be curious as to what you think yours is worth, even though it won't be for sale.

I do know that a really nice 22 Outrage Cuddy recently went for around $24K up in CT, with twin 150's. It was a great deal, about the same price as new 170 which only has a single 90 HP on it.

andygere posted 09-28-2005 08:17 PM ET (US)     Profile for andygere  Send Email to andygere     
Thanks for the moral support guys. My Mercury guy is working up pricing on a factory powerhead, so I'll at least have the numbers in front of me when I figure out what to do. If I was in Florida, I'd have my pick of used late model Merc 200's at reasonable prices. There are very few used outboards of this size advertised in my area, which will make finding a decent used motor a much more difficult task. Any thoughts on the value and/or market for the blown motor, whole or parted out?

So what's a classic Outrage 22 Cuddy with a blown motor worth? It's priceless! Since selling the boat is not even a consideration for me (and not in the forseable future either), I'm not really interested in speculating on that. What I do know is that this boat has given me an enourmous amount of satisfaction, both working on it and fishing and cruising aboard it. I suspect that will continue, especially if I have a brand new, high tech outboard on the transom. I'll get somewhat less satisfaction when I review my money market account statement, but I guess this type of thing is why I've been saving.

If anyone has any tips on hot deals for new/leftover outboards in the 200-225 hp range in Northern California, please let me know. The same goes for factory incentive programs, extended warranties, boat show deals, etc.

Tates posted 09-28-2005 09:28 PM ET (US)     Profile for Tates  Send Email to Tates     
Andy,
I know the sound, I lost one of my 1989 200 hp Black Maxes last summer, The culpert was a exploded oil injection system.Pump and hoses. That broken sound is probablty a sheared bot in the piston cylinder it will eventually get stuck.
I replaced both engines with 2002 200 hp Optimaxes, I still have the spare 200 if your are intrested let me know. It is right hand drive. I looked into rebuilding but it was 5000+_. So I went online and found a pair @ Capt. Kirks Marine in Texas, The Price was right and I took delivery a week later.Drop me a line if you got a ?
TT
andygere posted 09-29-2005 12:28 AM ET (US)     Profile for andygere  Send Email to andygere     
Tates,
I'm interested and sent you an e-mail. Thanks for posting.

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