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Author Topic:   Blackbird Industries Powerhead Rebuilder

Dan posted 11-15-2006 05:41 PM ET (US)
[Tell me about] Blackbird Industries of West Sunbury, Pennsylvania. For about $2,150 they rebuild power heads. I don't know if it's worth spending this much money on an old outboard motor. Plus lots of times when you pay to have some work done, the work consists of we check this and inspect that -- but that doesn't mean actual work is being performed and value being added.
[Long cut-and-paste from the re-builder's website removed.]
brisboats posted 11-15-2006 05:48 PM ET (US)
I think Sal on here had a powerhead rebuilt by them.
I never understood how they can claim to break the motor in before delivery.
Brian
Sal DiMercurio posted 11-15-2006 09:12 PM ET (US)
Had my 1997 - 70 hp Johnson rebuilt by them last spring.
Mike at Blackbird has been doing power heads since the covered wagon days & they have the very latest machinery to do the work.
They also run the power head to assure the rings seat properly.
Mike tells me that most engine failures occure because they aren't broken in propery & this is why they run the engine for quite a while with the correct oil.
You wont go wrong with them.
Yes, they give you the same warranty as a new engine & for a bit more, an extended warranty.
They also garranty the engine "wont" loose that 20% power.
Sal
Dan posted 11-15-2006 09:19 PM ET (US)
Sal, how much did it cost?
What did the rebuild include?
How long did it take to get done?
Sal DiMercurio posted 11-17-2006 08:50 PM ET (US)
Keep in mind I'm way out west in Calif & Blackbird is on the East coast in Pa.
It cost me $1,800 for the rebuild, $100 each way [ = $ 200. ] for shipping.
Took 1 week to get there, 1 week back, about 5 weeks total because I sent them a personal check & they wait until it clears, plus a few days.
They charge different for different engines.
Call Mike at the 800 number & he will tell you everything.
I sent the power head in a big tupperware or rubbermaid container [ about $12.00 at Walmart ] & they sent the powerhead back bolted to a wooden pallet, no container came back,....not that I wanted it.
Sal
sosmerc posted 11-18-2006 12:48 AM ET (US)
Highly recommend you "do your homework" before spending your hard earned money.
If you have a local mechanic that you trust, you probably should see what options he can offer. Whatever you do, if you have someone local do the work, or install and test the powerhead, you at least can deal with problems alot easier than trying to resolve problems long distance.
I have been in the business for over 17 years and have had both successes and failures regarding "re-builds". Factory new powerheads would be my first choice, but they have priced themselves totally out of the ballpark. Mercury does offer some "re-manufactured" powerheads for certain years and models and I would go with them first whenever possible.
For older engines where I can't get a factory "re-man" I will farm out the machine work (boring, sleeving, etc) and then purchase the parts myself and do my own assembly. I won't take on a powerhead job unless I am authorized to service all the systems at the same time: carbs, fuel pump, water pump, etc. I allow myself enough time to do at least some of the break-in myself, either on my dyno, or on the water. I try to offer my customers some options such as: aftermarket pistons, rods, etc if available, or in some cases I will ONLY use oem parts. I guarantee the engine will run as intended and will demonstrate that to the customer. As far as warranty, I cover all new parts that have been used and offer whatever warranty these parts come with. Powerhead warranties are something neither I nor the customer wants to have to deal with, so I go out of my way to try and insure the job will last if given proper use and care.
I do not believe in "badmouthing" any business that I have not had first hand experience with, so I will not comment about the business mentioned in this thread. I can say there is a history out there and you should be able to do some more internet searching to gather more information.
You might want to check screamandfly.com.
Dan posted 11-18-2006 10:38 AM ET (US)
Man oh man! I just checked out [reports about this re-builder on other websites] I don't know if everything I read is 100 percent correct, but based on the number of people complaining of problems with Blackbird, I'm doing to stay away. Thank you. For anyone else considering Blackbird Industries please check this out:
[Link to website--this link has been removed. We don't collect links to websites, and particularly ones where the only purpose of the website is to defame someone or their businees. Again, anyone with first-hand experience with this vendor is perfectly welcome to contribute their first-hand experiences by posting them here.--jimh]
sosmerc posted 11-18-2006 12:39 PM ET (US)
Dan, what powerhead are you looking to repair? Year, model, etc. I might be able to steer you in the right direction, depending upon your needs.
jimh posted 11-19-2006 10:49 AM ET (US)
We don't try to collect and organize links to other websites where there is information. We leave that to GOOGLE.COM. If you want to collect links to other websites where this vendor is being discussed, please use GOOGLE to guide you.

I find it best to rely on first hand experience and reports of satisfaction or dissatisfaction with products and services. Regarding this vendor, there appears to be a wide range of opinion based on differing experiences.
When dealing with someone providing services on a cash basis who is located several thousand miles away, there seems like a high probability for difficulty in resolving any disputes that might arise.
Personally, I'd look for someone more local if I needed $2,000 in engine repair work to be performed.

Sal DiMercurio posted 11-20-2006 08:15 PM ET (US)
The reason I went with Blackbird is they in fact do have a very good reputaion & the very latest technology.
I know of many very happy customers that they rebuilt their engines.
My buddy Dunk from NJ says they have a great reputation as many people he knows have had the engines done there.
I know one thing for sure, there's always 3 sides to every story, ....yours, mine & the real skinny.
Most of the thecs around here don't do rebuilds & the few that do want a small fortune & Blackbird is very resonable & I feel they really know what their doing.
Sal
ioptfm posted 05-28-2007 09:14 PM ET (US)
[Revived this discussion to post a comment, but gave no information about his first-hand experience with the rebuilder.]
Sal DiMercurio posted 05-28-2007 11:33 PM ET (US)
My 1997 - 70 hp Johnsn scored a cylinder [ my buddy owned it & i bought it from him [.
I sent the powerhead to Blackbird & this engine runs better now, than when he bought it new.
I am "VERY" satisfied with their work.
Sal
Dan posted 05-30-2007 08:36 AM ET (US)
Hi Sal,
I'm happy for your friend.
[I deleted a long cut-and-paste of someone else's comments. I have no interest whatsoever in reprinting some unidentified third-hand report. If you have a FIRST-HAND report about your experience with the vendor, you are welcome to provide a narrative of it. If your opinion is based entirely on reading other accounts, some second-hand or even third-hand, please do not expect us to reprint them. In the case of this vendor, we are interested only in first-hand experiences with them.--jimh]
evogroup posted 05-31-2007 12:27 PM ET (US)
I have been looking for over a year for a newer motor for my '86 Montauk and just bought a 2002 90 OceanPro from them. They said it was in great shape and freshened it up with honed cylinders and new rings. It's on the way and scheduled to arrive today.
[Please let us know how the rebuilt engine works when you received it--jimh]
Whaler_bob posted 05-31-2007 02:00 PM ET (US)
[Made comments about the third or fourth hand report which has now been removed.--jimh]
Binkie posted 05-31-2007 03:30 PM ET (US)
Based on what I`ve read about this company...[made comment but had no first-hand experience with the company].
Dan posted 05-31-2007 05:13 PM ET (US)
Evo, I wish you luck. Let us know how it turns out. Maybe you can test it before going through all the trouble of rigging it to your boat.
jimh posted 05-31-2007 08:14 PM ET (US)
Based on the first-hand accounts provided here, the company has a good product. I have removed all of the second-hand, third-hand, and fourth-hand accounts. There is no point in reposting these. Just give your actual first-hand experience with the vendor. If you do not have actual first-hand experience, please to DO NOT cite your secondary, tertiary, and quaternary sources.
Contender25 posted 06-01-2007 12:01 PM ET (US)
The people from Blackbird purchased a motor from me on Ebay and were very professional about the entire process. We had a bit of a snafu with shipping but they resolved the issue in a snap.
They also have their own discussion section on another forum and have been quite helpful, I will not post the address out or respect to JimH, (unless he Ok's it). They send a decent amount of traffic here to CW due to Jim's article on VRO pumps in the reference section.
ioptfm posted 06-10-2007 10:10 PM ET (US)
I had first hand experience with Blackbird and it was a nighmare. I sent them money for a 2000 Evinrude in Oct. Excuse after excuse as to why it couldn't ship. Finally shipped to me in mid Feb. Mounted it on boat and found parts missing, parts that were obviously scavanged from other motors, some parts held on with tie wire, and the then clincher! There was a crack in the valve cover that had been patched with putty in hopes that it would prevent it from leaking. Lucky for me it didn't work and I discovered the crack immediately when the oil began leakiang out. Sent the part with the putty on it back to Blackbird and they told me that I had cracked it while uncrating, (which would be impossible to do without damaging the cowling) were real quick to say that they would give me a refund, never admitted that they had tried to patch the crack and I would have to pay the return fright charges. After they got the motor back it took over 2 weeks before they finally sent me my check back. I cannot speak for others, only my experience with them... Almost forgot...the 2000 Evinrude turned out to actually be a 1999. I have photos and 5 witnesses as to the condition of the motor I received and my only advice is to stay as far away from them as you possibly can!
jimh posted 06-10-2007 11:24 PM ET (US)
That is an interesting report. Can you tell us more about the valve cover on the motor. I am assuming you purchased a four-stroke motor, as two-stroke motors do not have valve covers.
scottwell posted 05-02-2008 08:52 PM ET (US)
[Long narrative deleted; was posted multiple times in an apparent attempt to defame a vendor.]
seabob4 posted 05-03-2008 07:46 PM ET (US)
[Posed a question but did not have a first-hand experience with the vendor to contribute to the discussion.]
Chuck Tribolet posted 05-03-2008 10:15 PM ET (US)
[Gave an interesting narrative of dealings with other vendors, but did not have a first-hand experience with the vendor under discusion.]
seabob4 posted 05-03-2008 10:53 PM ET (US)
[Offered advice, but apparently not based on first-hand experience with the vendor.]
andymoberly posted 10-10-2009 02:48 PM ET (US)
NIGHTMARE!!!! I sent 1 outboard ,black bird ind. A power head in august. Still have not received a good invoice from them. I sent them a compleat power head .. In return in just a couple days I was to get a pre run fully REbuilt motor . All I had to do was bolt on motor and go. Well I couple days turned into a week. A week turned into over a month now. I tried to call them no answer or a recording . No one ever called back. When you finally get through.. They were out racing. My motor was checked by 2 mechanic. Here . Both said #5 piston broke simple rebuild was all Ineeeded.. 3 weeks in to this nightmare I got a hold of them. They said 3 cylinders were bad. Not even a word about the broken piston. HA! . Knew I was in trouble then. Well to make a long story a little shorter. 1outboard kept jacking the price up and telling me I needed things for the motor .that I did not..now come the real hook. They advertise visa master charge pay pal. But when it comes down to paying for it the only thing they want is cashiers check or money order.. No chance to get your money back if they send you a busket of bolts. Stay away from this out fitt.
Narragansett Outrage posted 10-11-2009 08:59 AM ET (US)
[Offered some good advice about payment options. This is worthy of its own discussion. However, it was not a first-hand experience with the vendor being discussed here.]
jimh posted 10-11-2009 09:21 AM ET (US)
As I mentioned earlier, this thread is intended to limit responses to only those people who have first-hand experience with Blackbird Industries and having a powerhead rebuilt. I am sure we all have anecdotal experiences with various providers of services which went well or not so well, but those anecdotes should be saved for another occasion. Please, only people who have first-hand actual experience with Blackbird Industries should participate in this discussion. Thank you.
Dan posted 10-11-2009 07:57 PM ET (US)
[Changed topic of discussion. Did not have any first-hand experience with the vendor to contribute.]
jimh posted 10-11-2009 08:11 PM ET (US)
Again, this thread is for first-hand experiences with the vendor. Please to not contribute to this discussion if you have not had a first-hand experience with Blackbird Industries. Thank you.
Bob of Glenburnie posted 10-14-2009 06:43 PM ET (US)
anyone have a "excellent" experience with East Coast rebuilders in FL or for that matter anyone in the NYC area? Why does something that is a straight forward project for the properly equiped and knowledgable outfit become so convoluted and why are the personal experiences so different and so wide ranging as far as the end produt and service is concerned. I've worked 40+ years with my own hands to make a living and I just can't understand why there is such a wide range of positive and negative experiences with this outfit. After that many years in business, its either good or bad, not both!!!

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Author	Topic: Blackbird Industries Powerhead Rebuilder
Dan	posted 11-15-2006 05:41 PM ET (US) [Tell me about] Blackbird Industries of West Sunbury, Pennsylvania. For about $2,150 they rebuild power heads. I don't know if it's worth spending this much money on an old outboard motor. Plus lots of times when you pay to have some work done, the work consists of we check this and inspect that -- but that doesn't mean actual work is being performed and value being added. [Long cut-and-paste from the re-builder's website removed.]
brisboats	posted 11-15-2006 05:48 PM ET (US) I think Sal on here had a powerhead rebuilt by them. I never understood how they can claim to break the motor in before delivery. Brian
Sal DiMercurio	posted 11-15-2006 09:12 PM ET (US) Had my 1997 - 70 hp Johnson rebuilt by them last spring. Mike at Blackbird has been doing power heads since the covered wagon days & they have the very latest machinery to do the work. They also run the power head to assure the rings seat properly. Mike tells me that most engine failures occure because they aren't broken in propery & this is why they run the engine for quite a while with the correct oil. You wont go wrong with them. Yes, they give you the same warranty as a new engine & for a bit more, an extended warranty. They also garranty the engine "wont" loose that 20% power. Sal
Dan	posted 11-15-2006 09:19 PM ET (US) Sal, how much did it cost? What did the rebuild include? How long did it take to get done?
Sal DiMercurio	posted 11-17-2006 08:50 PM ET (US) Keep in mind I'm way out west in Calif & Blackbird is on the East coast in Pa. It cost me $1,800 for the rebuild, $100 each way [ = $ 200. ] for shipping. Took 1 week to get there, 1 week back, about 5 weeks total because I sent them a personal check & they wait until it clears, plus a few days. They charge different for different engines. Call Mike at the 800 number & he will tell you everything. I sent the power head in a big tupperware or rubbermaid container [ about $12.00 at Walmart ] & they sent the powerhead back bolted to a wooden pallet, no container came back,....not that I wanted it. Sal
sosmerc	posted 11-18-2006 12:48 AM ET (US) Highly recommend you "do your homework" before spending your hard earned money. If you have a local mechanic that you trust, you probably should see what options he can offer. Whatever you do, if you have someone local do the work, or install and test the powerhead, you at least can deal with problems alot easier than trying to resolve problems long distance. I have been in the business for over 17 years and have had both successes and failures regarding "re-builds". Factory new powerheads would be my first choice, but they have priced themselves totally out of the ballpark. Mercury does offer some "re-manufactured" powerheads for certain years and models and I would go with them first whenever possible. For older engines where I can't get a factory "re-man" I will farm out the machine work (boring, sleeving, etc) and then purchase the parts myself and do my own assembly. I won't take on a powerhead job unless I am authorized to service all the systems at the same time: carbs, fuel pump, water pump, etc. I allow myself enough time to do at least some of the break-in myself, either on my dyno, or on the water. I try to offer my customers some options such as: aftermarket pistons, rods, etc if available, or in some cases I will ONLY use oem parts. I guarantee the engine will run as intended and will demonstrate that to the customer. As far as warranty, I cover all new parts that have been used and offer whatever warranty these parts come with. Powerhead warranties are something neither I nor the customer wants to have to deal with, so I go out of my way to try and insure the job will last if given proper use and care. I do not believe in "badmouthing" any business that I have not had first hand experience with, so I will not comment about the business mentioned in this thread. I can say there is a history out there and you should be able to do some more internet searching to gather more information. You might want to check screamandfly.com.
Dan	posted 11-18-2006 10:38 AM ET (US) Man oh man! I just checked out [reports about this re-builder on other websites] I don't know if everything I read is 100 percent correct, but based on the number of people complaining of problems with Blackbird, I'm doing to stay away. Thank you. For anyone else considering Blackbird Industries please check this out: [Link to website--this link has been removed. We don't collect links to websites, and particularly ones where the only purpose of the website is to defame someone or their businees. Again, anyone with first-hand experience with this vendor is perfectly welcome to contribute their first-hand experiences by posting them here.--jimh]
sosmerc	posted 11-18-2006 12:39 PM ET (US) Dan, what powerhead are you looking to repair? Year, model, etc. I might be able to steer you in the right direction, depending upon your needs.
jimh	posted 11-19-2006 10:49 AM ET (US) We don't try to collect and organize links to other websites where there is information. We leave that to GOOGLE.COM. If you want to collect links to other websites where this vendor is being discussed, please use GOOGLE to guide you. I find it best to rely on first hand experience and reports of satisfaction or dissatisfaction with products and services. Regarding this vendor, there appears to be a wide range of opinion based on differing experiences. When dealing with someone providing services on a cash basis who is located several thousand miles away, there seems like a high probability for difficulty in resolving any disputes that might arise. Personally, I'd look for someone more local if I needed $2,000 in engine repair work to be performed.
Sal DiMercurio	posted 11-20-2006 08:15 PM ET (US) The reason I went with Blackbird is they in fact do have a very good reputaion & the very latest technology. I know of many very happy customers that they rebuilt their engines. My buddy Dunk from NJ says they have a great reputation as many people he knows have had the engines done there. I know one thing for sure, there's always 3 sides to every story, ....yours, mine & the real skinny. Most of the thecs around here don't do rebuilds & the few that do want a small fortune & Blackbird is very resonable & I feel they really know what their doing. Sal
ioptfm	posted 05-28-2007 09:14 PM ET (US) [Revived this discussion to post a comment, but gave no information about his first-hand experience with the rebuilder.]
Sal DiMercurio	posted 05-28-2007 11:33 PM ET (US) My 1997 - 70 hp Johnsn scored a cylinder [ my buddy owned it & i bought it from him [. I sent the powerhead to Blackbird & this engine runs better now, than when he bought it new. I am "VERY" satisfied with their work. Sal
Dan	posted 05-30-2007 08:36 AM ET (US) Hi Sal, I'm happy for your friend. [I deleted a long cut-and-paste of someone else's comments. I have no interest whatsoever in reprinting some unidentified third-hand report. If you have a FIRST-HAND report about your experience with the vendor, you are welcome to provide a narrative of it. If your opinion is based entirely on reading other accounts, some second-hand or even third-hand, please do not expect us to reprint them. In the case of this vendor, we are interested only in first-hand experiences with them.--jimh]
evogroup	posted 05-31-2007 12:27 PM ET (US) I have been looking for over a year for a newer motor for my '86 Montauk and just bought a 2002 90 OceanPro from them. They said it was in great shape and freshened it up with honed cylinders and new rings. It's on the way and scheduled to arrive today. [Please let us know how the rebuilt engine works when you received it--jimh]
Whaler_bob	posted 05-31-2007 02:00 PM ET (US) [Made comments about the third or fourth hand report which has now been removed.--jimh]
Binkie	posted 05-31-2007 03:30 PM ET (US) Based on what I`ve read about this company...[made comment but had no first-hand experience with the company].
Dan	posted 05-31-2007 05:13 PM ET (US) Evo, I wish you luck. Let us know how it turns out. Maybe you can test it before going through all the trouble of rigging it to your boat.
jimh	posted 05-31-2007 08:14 PM ET (US) Based on the first-hand accounts provided here, the company has a good product. I have removed all of the second-hand, third-hand, and fourth-hand accounts. There is no point in reposting these. Just give your actual first-hand experience with the vendor. If you do not have actual first-hand experience, please to DO NOT cite your secondary, tertiary, and quaternary sources.
Contender25	posted 06-01-2007 12:01 PM ET (US) The people from Blackbird purchased a motor from me on Ebay and were very professional about the entire process. We had a bit of a snafu with shipping but they resolved the issue in a snap. They also have their own discussion section on another forum and have been quite helpful, I will not post the address out or respect to JimH, (unless he Ok's it). They send a decent amount of traffic here to CW due to Jim's article on VRO pumps in the reference section.
ioptfm	posted 06-10-2007 10:10 PM ET (US) I had first hand experience with Blackbird and it was a nighmare. I sent them money for a 2000 Evinrude in Oct. Excuse after excuse as to why it couldn't ship. Finally shipped to me in mid Feb. Mounted it on boat and found parts missing, parts that were obviously scavanged from other motors, some parts held on with tie wire, and the then clincher! There was a crack in the valve cover that had been patched with putty in hopes that it would prevent it from leaking. Lucky for me it didn't work and I discovered the crack immediately when the oil began leakiang out. Sent the part with the putty on it back to Blackbird and they told me that I had cracked it while uncrating, (which would be impossible to do without damaging the cowling) were real quick to say that they would give me a refund, never admitted that they had tried to patch the crack and I would have to pay the return fright charges. After they got the motor back it took over 2 weeks before they finally sent me my check back. I cannot speak for others, only my experience with them... Almost forgot...the 2000 Evinrude turned out to actually be a 1999. I have photos and 5 witnesses as to the condition of the motor I received and my only advice is to stay as far away from them as you possibly can!
jimh	posted 06-10-2007 11:24 PM ET (US) That is an interesting report. Can you tell us more about the valve cover on the motor. I am assuming you purchased a four-stroke motor, as two-stroke motors do not have valve covers.
scottwell	posted 05-02-2008 08:52 PM ET (US) [Long narrative deleted; was posted multiple times in an apparent attempt to defame a vendor.]
seabob4	posted 05-03-2008 07:46 PM ET (US) [Posed a question but did not have a first-hand experience with the vendor to contribute to the discussion.]
Chuck Tribolet	posted 05-03-2008 10:15 PM ET (US) [Gave an interesting narrative of dealings with other vendors, but did not have a first-hand experience with the vendor under discusion.]
seabob4	posted 05-03-2008 10:53 PM ET (US) [Offered advice, but apparently not based on first-hand experience with the vendor.]
andymoberly	posted 10-10-2009 02:48 PM ET (US) NIGHTMARE!!!! I sent 1 outboard ,black bird ind. A power head in august. Still have not received a good invoice from them. I sent them a compleat power head .. In return in just a couple days I was to get a pre run fully REbuilt motor . All I had to do was bolt on motor and go. Well I couple days turned into a week. A week turned into over a month now. I tried to call them no answer or a recording . No one ever called back. When you finally get through.. They were out racing. My motor was checked by 2 mechanic. Here . Both said #5 piston broke simple rebuild was all Ineeeded.. 3 weeks in to this nightmare I got a hold of them. They said 3 cylinders were bad. Not even a word about the broken piston. HA! . Knew I was in trouble then. Well to make a long story a little shorter. 1outboard kept jacking the price up and telling me I needed things for the motor .that I did not..now come the real hook. They advertise visa master charge pay pal. But when it comes down to paying for it the only thing they want is cashiers check or money order.. No chance to get your money back if they send you a busket of bolts. Stay away from this out fitt.
Narragansett Outrage	posted 10-11-2009 08:59 AM ET (US) [Offered some good advice about payment options. This is worthy of its own discussion. However, it was not a first-hand experience with the vendor being discussed here.]
jimh	posted 10-11-2009 09:21 AM ET (US) As I mentioned earlier, this thread is intended to limit responses to only those people who have first-hand experience with Blackbird Industries and having a powerhead rebuilt. I am sure we all have anecdotal experiences with various providers of services which went well or not so well, but those anecdotes should be saved for another occasion. Please, only people who have first-hand actual experience with Blackbird Industries should participate in this discussion. Thank you.
Dan	posted 10-11-2009 07:57 PM ET (US) [Changed topic of discussion. Did not have any first-hand experience with the vendor to contribute.]
jimh	posted 10-11-2009 08:11 PM ET (US) Again, this thread is for first-hand experiences with the vendor. Please to not contribute to this discussion if you have not had a first-hand experience with Blackbird Industries. Thank you.
Bob of Glenburnie	posted 10-14-2009 06:43 PM ET (US) anyone have a "excellent" experience with East Coast rebuilders in FL or for that matter anyone in the NYC area? Why does something that is a straight forward project for the properly equiped and knowledgable outfit become so convoluted and why are the personal experiences so different and so wide ranging as far as the end produt and service is concerned. I've worked 40+ years with my own hands to make a living and I just can't understand why there is such a wide range of positive and negative experiences with this outfit. After that many years in business, its either good or bad, not both!!!