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Author Topic:   Spraying Perfection w/ HVLP - need help!

Bondbuyer posted 11-26-2006 04:00 PM ET (US)
OK, I'm almost done spraying my 1971 Outrage with Interlux Perfection but having a few problems that I need help on.
I sprayed the Epoxy Primekote from Interlux w/ an HVLP gun 1.7 & 2.0 tips, sanded using multiple grades = turned out great & EXTREMELY smooth.
I have sprayed 1 coat of perfection (w/HVLP 1.4 tip), sanded w/ 320 then sprayed a second coat....
Problem- I had about 10 "runs" which I sanded w/ 600 grit then just tried to use the "touch up" HVLP tip 1.0
You can see the difference between the "touch up" & the finish coat???
Question is - Will this buff out? or should I have not used the touch up gun & just have to put another entire coat on with the 1.4 gun???
You can kinda see the difference in these pics some spots look dull.
http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j232/bondbuyer/11-26-2006013.jpg
http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j232/bondbuyer/11-26-2006004.jpg
http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j232/bondbuyer/11-26-2006010.jpg
The last pic is a run which I am making worse by trying things like hand buffing.
I am starting to bum out a bit - I'm out of paint (have some on order from Boatersland - been 2 weeks & they still haven't sent it! argh).....out of sandpaper, don't have buffing pads (not sure what to use for a 6" pad?)
Any help would be greatly appreciated or at least words of encouragement! Thanks
edfish posted 11-27-2006 01:45 AM ET (US)
It looks awsome to me. I have the '72 and I hope to someday do the same to mine.

If you are getting discouraged, maybe take a couple of days and get away from it. I can see that you have been putting your all into it and I am sure you are very proud of what you have done.
As a proud owner of one of these amazing boats, I aplaud you for your hard work to keep its spirit alive.
Great Job! I look forward to see the end result.
Ed Tavas.
Bondbuyer posted 11-27-2006 11:11 AM ET (US)
Thanks edfish.......maybe you are right - I need to walk away for a bit & come back to it.
To compound things - I just got off the phone w/ the interlux tech support - he said the following:
The reasons for the runs (other than the obvious that I was too close) could be twofold:
- the boat could be too cold (hull has to be warmer than 60 degrees) = I should wait till spring!!!!
- should not be using an HVLP gun???!!! arghhh
should be using a siphon feed or something else to spray with
= I'm bumming out big time right now & am goona step back.
filthypit posted 11-27-2006 11:15 AM ET (US)
don't panic - your boat looks wonderful!
the difference you're seeing is prolly from the different sized spray-nozzle and different sandpaper grit combo.
since you're out of paint you should prolly try to buff it out first, because, if you try to re-touch-up with a fresh can of paint, you're f'd (it ain't gonna match)(no matter what they tell you @ the paint store).

once you begin wet-sanding something that's painted, the problem is, you may have to sand the whole darn job in order to get a consistant finish. also, remember paint is more delicate to sand than gel coat.
when doing any commercial spraying, i always opt for the largest spray that works (touch-up spray-guns are for wimps). i would have re-sprayed w/ your 1.4 nozzle; found an area to tape off boundries that don't show, & spray.
i've found from painting many, many surfboards & cars - sometimes it takes a while for everything to dry equally.
i've done jobs that i thought were complete disasters (same reasons you've mentioned), but after ample dry-time, they looked great.
like i say, if you did your touch-up with the same source of paint (bucket/batch), it will match.
keep the updates coming!
we're getting jiggy to spray our 72 Outrage!

good luck!
filthypit posted 11-27-2006 11:24 AM ET (US)
yea, the temp thing is pretty important, but - actually, you should be ok w/ a hvlp gun w/ a 1.4 tip. because they're designed to move high volumes of material (@ low pressures) they're easier to use.
just, remember; when you see your paint run, change the distance accordingly - and try to be be cognisant of your spray distance throughout the job. it's the most important part of doing commercial sprays; distance & pressure.
Bondbuyer posted 11-27-2006 11:59 AM ET (US)
Hey Filthy,
Thanks for the input.......the touch up gun was a mistake! The 1.4 nozzle worked really well (with the exception of the few runs which were probably more due to user error).....I'll try to buff it out - any suggestions on what I should use???? If that fails - looks like I'm resanding the whole darn thing & I think will re attempt spraying w/ 1.4, not thinning as much, being EXTREMELY careful on my technique - this is now weather permitting if the paint ever comes in!
PeteB88 posted 11-27-2006 02:35 PM ET (US)
I don't know if this helps or not but I have always found it nearly impossible to sand out a run or sag entirely - best is to prevent and if you get them, carefully scrape them down and then sand. I have scraped using everything from cabinet maker's scrapers to razor blades to pieces of broken glass. Good luck, let us know what works best.
protek9543 posted 11-27-2006 07:33 PM ET (US)
Tuck your needle in all the way and come out 2 and a half turns. Set your pressure between 30 and 35 lbs. Don't put the paint on like you want it to look because the nature of that paint is to gloss up and flow in a few moments.
John
Stevebaz posted 11-27-2006 07:56 PM ET (US)
From what little know being hobbiest and painting cars not a profesional. Even at 60 degrees it is going to be very difficult to get a smooth coating without runs. you need ot be closer to 70 degrees. Covering up a rough coat to smooth a bad spray job will just make a more expensive bad spray job. You got to smooth it back out. as for sanding runs I take clear 2" box tape and tape around the run and then wetsand the run with 150 grit wet and dry, sanded wet until even with the tape then remove the tape and knock down the rest with finer grit paper. It will be a b*tch to remove the sanded tape but a little Acetone will help since your going to spray over again.
Going to a smaller spray was a mistake but not as bad a being cold. Next time hang some steel pannels, trash can lids or what ever to spray first to set up your gun and then spray the boat. First pass a light fog coat spraying a test pannel first. when done check how sticky the first spray is on the test pannel you want it very sticky, then take a second pass twice as thick as the first pass but not solid color yet. Make sure you go over the test pannel first. now check to see how sticky the paint is on the test pannel and when it is very sticky then spray again with a just wet covering coat this should minimize any running for you without having a heavy runny coat of material. This will take time and patience. Haste makes waste. Mix only enough paint to spray each coat. I would spray all the tough nooks and crannys first and then spray the body of the boat before going on to the next coat. with it being cold it will take along time to tack off between coats and you could easly spend a long day just to get a good coat of paint on. Dont spray on a damp day and make sure you use a couple of fans to circulate the air between coats to help the paint tack off. Make sure you use a cold weather thinner/reducer. I am afraid if you dont get enough heat in the boat you have a loosing battle and wont be happy with the outcome. Best of luck
Bondbuyer posted 11-28-2006 06:20 AM ET (US)
THANKS guys!!!! that is all GREAT advice!!!!
DickRussell posted 11-28-2006 09:13 AM ET (US)
Looks like you have buffed through the paint.
When doing a touch up paint you have to replicate all
procedures like sanding. Use all the same grits. You
can end up with a different smoothness and that can
sand out like you painted it with an other color.
Make sure that you use the exact same recipe with the
paint or you can end up with another tone.
Lay the paint on thick and when all layers are cured,
buff it into the area and then into the side of the
boat.
Keep us posted and with pictures.
Dick Russell
Bondbuyer posted 11-29-2006 07:28 AM ET (US)
Thanks Dick!
OK, I'm giving it one more shot today - my weather window closes on me Friday when a cold front comes through & will only get into the 40s.
If I don't get this right I'm screwed until spring :(
Wish me luck! & thanks again to all for the help!

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Author	Topic: Spraying Perfection w/ HVLP - need help!
Bondbuyer	posted 11-26-2006 04:00 PM ET (US) OK, I'm almost done spraying my 1971 Outrage with Interlux Perfection but having a few problems that I need help on. I sprayed the Epoxy Primekote from Interlux w/ an HVLP gun 1.7 & 2.0 tips, sanded using multiple grades = turned out great & EXTREMELY smooth. I have sprayed 1 coat of perfection (w/HVLP 1.4 tip), sanded w/ 320 then sprayed a second coat.... Problem- I had about 10 "runs" which I sanded w/ 600 grit then just tried to use the "touch up" HVLP tip 1.0 You can see the difference between the "touch up" & the finish coat??? Question is - Will this buff out? or should I have not used the touch up gun & just have to put another entire coat on with the 1.4 gun??? You can kinda see the difference in these pics some spots look dull. http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j232/bondbuyer/11-26-2006013.jpg http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j232/bondbuyer/11-26-2006004.jpg http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j232/bondbuyer/11-26-2006010.jpg The last pic is a run which I am making worse by trying things like hand buffing. I am starting to bum out a bit - I'm out of paint (have some on order from Boatersland - been 2 weeks & they still haven't sent it! argh).....out of sandpaper, don't have buffing pads (not sure what to use for a 6" pad?) Any help would be greatly appreciated or at least words of encouragement! Thanks
edfish	posted 11-27-2006 01:45 AM ET (US) It looks awsome to me. I have the '72 and I hope to someday do the same to mine. If you are getting discouraged, maybe take a couple of days and get away from it. I can see that you have been putting your all into it and I am sure you are very proud of what you have done. As a proud owner of one of these amazing boats, I aplaud you for your hard work to keep its spirit alive. Great Job! I look forward to see the end result. Ed Tavas.
Bondbuyer	posted 11-27-2006 11:11 AM ET (US) Thanks edfish.......maybe you are right - I need to walk away for a bit & come back to it. To compound things - I just got off the phone w/ the interlux tech support - he said the following: The reasons for the runs (other than the obvious that I was too close) could be twofold: - the boat could be too cold (hull has to be warmer than 60 degrees) = I should wait till spring!!!! - should not be using an HVLP gun???!!! arghhh should be using a siphon feed or something else to spray with = I'm bumming out big time right now & am goona step back.
filthypit	posted 11-27-2006 11:15 AM ET (US) don't panic - your boat looks wonderful! the difference you're seeing is prolly from the different sized spray-nozzle and different sandpaper grit combo. since you're out of paint you should prolly try to buff it out first, because, if you try to re-touch-up with a fresh can of paint, you're f'd (it ain't gonna match)(no matter what they tell you @ the paint store). once you begin wet-sanding something that's painted, the problem is, you may have to sand the whole darn job in order to get a consistant finish. also, remember paint is more delicate to sand than gel coat. when doing any commercial spraying, i always opt for the largest spray that works (touch-up spray-guns are for wimps). i would have re-sprayed w/ your 1.4 nozzle; found an area to tape off boundries that don't show, & spray. i've found from painting many, many surfboards & cars - sometimes it takes a while for everything to dry equally. i've done jobs that i thought were complete disasters (same reasons you've mentioned), but after ample dry-time, they looked great. like i say, if you did your touch-up with the same source of paint (bucket/batch), it will match. keep the updates coming! we're getting jiggy to spray our 72 Outrage! good luck!
filthypit	posted 11-27-2006 11:24 AM ET (US) yea, the temp thing is pretty important, but - actually, you should be ok w/ a hvlp gun w/ a 1.4 tip. because they're designed to move high volumes of material (@ low pressures) they're easier to use. just, remember; when you see your paint run, change the distance accordingly - and try to be be cognisant of your spray distance throughout the job. it's the most important part of doing commercial sprays; distance & pressure.
Bondbuyer	posted 11-27-2006 11:59 AM ET (US) Hey Filthy, Thanks for the input.......the touch up gun was a mistake! The 1.4 nozzle worked really well (with the exception of the few runs which were probably more due to user error).....I'll try to buff it out - any suggestions on what I should use???? If that fails - looks like I'm resanding the whole darn thing & I think will re attempt spraying w/ 1.4, not thinning as much, being EXTREMELY careful on my technique - this is now weather permitting if the paint ever comes in!
PeteB88	posted 11-27-2006 02:35 PM ET (US) I don't know if this helps or not but I have always found it nearly impossible to sand out a run or sag entirely - best is to prevent and if you get them, carefully scrape them down and then sand. I have scraped using everything from cabinet maker's scrapers to razor blades to pieces of broken glass. Good luck, let us know what works best.
protek9543	posted 11-27-2006 07:33 PM ET (US) Tuck your needle in all the way and come out 2 and a half turns. Set your pressure between 30 and 35 lbs. Don't put the paint on like you want it to look because the nature of that paint is to gloss up and flow in a few moments. John
Stevebaz	posted 11-27-2006 07:56 PM ET (US) From what little know being hobbiest and painting cars not a profesional. Even at 60 degrees it is going to be very difficult to get a smooth coating without runs. you need ot be closer to 70 degrees. Covering up a rough coat to smooth a bad spray job will just make a more expensive bad spray job. You got to smooth it back out. as for sanding runs I take clear 2" box tape and tape around the run and then wetsand the run with 150 grit wet and dry, sanded wet until even with the tape then remove the tape and knock down the rest with finer grit paper. It will be a b*tch to remove the sanded tape but a little Acetone will help since your going to spray over again. Going to a smaller spray was a mistake but not as bad a being cold. Next time hang some steel pannels, trash can lids or what ever to spray first to set up your gun and then spray the boat. First pass a light fog coat spraying a test pannel first. when done check how sticky the first spray is on the test pannel you want it very sticky, then take a second pass twice as thick as the first pass but not solid color yet. Make sure you go over the test pannel first. now check to see how sticky the paint is on the test pannel and when it is very sticky then spray again with a just wet covering coat this should minimize any running for you without having a heavy runny coat of material. This will take time and patience. Haste makes waste. Mix only enough paint to spray each coat. I would spray all the tough nooks and crannys first and then spray the body of the boat before going on to the next coat. with it being cold it will take along time to tack off between coats and you could easly spend a long day just to get a good coat of paint on. Dont spray on a damp day and make sure you use a couple of fans to circulate the air between coats to help the paint tack off. Make sure you use a cold weather thinner/reducer. I am afraid if you dont get enough heat in the boat you have a loosing battle and wont be happy with the outcome. Best of luck
Bondbuyer	posted 11-28-2006 06:20 AM ET (US) THANKS guys!!!! that is all GREAT advice!!!!
DickRussell	posted 11-28-2006 09:13 AM ET (US) Looks like you have buffed through the paint. When doing a touch up paint you have to replicate all procedures like sanding. Use all the same grits. You can end up with a different smoothness and that can sand out like you painted it with an other color. Make sure that you use the exact same recipe with the paint or you can end up with another tone. Lay the paint on thick and when all layers are cured, buff it into the area and then into the side of the boat. Keep us posted and with pictures. Dick Russell
Bondbuyer	posted 11-29-2006 07:28 AM ET (US) Thanks Dick! OK, I'm giving it one more shot today - my weather window closes on me Friday when a cold front comes through & will only get into the 40s. If I don't get this right I'm screwed until spring :( Wish me luck! & thanks again to all for the help!