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Author Topic:   Trim Tab Installation
jimh posted 01-14-2007 09:25 AM ET (US)   Profile for jimh   Send Email to jimh  
This discussion is for comments and questions related to the article in the Reference Section,

Trim Tab Installation
http://continuouswave.com/whaler/reference/trimTabs.html

Royboy posted 01-14-2007 10:36 AM ET (US)     Profile for Royboy  Send Email to Royboy     
[Changed the topic of discussion from the specifics of installing trim tabs on the hulls of classic Boston Whaler boats, and instead presented his opinion of the article, including suggesting its title be changed as it was not appropriate to the material contained in the article. I did not think it particularly important to archive these off-topic remarks, since in general the website has little interest in topics not directly related to boating and classic Boston Whaler boats, and I have removed them from the archives.--jimh]

[Getting back on topic, the following comments about adding trim tabs to a classic Boston Whaler boat were provided--jimh.] Accurately mark the locations for the tabs and their mounting holes by using two-way tape to attach the hinges to the hull. whether to drill and tap, or use the screws that come with the tabs, the use of two-way tape to temprarily place the tabs prior to drilling to ensure everything will The tape is strong enough to temprarily install the tabs too, to make sure everything will clear them (and they will clear everything) during operation. Remove the hinges from the boat with a wooden wedge when all holes have been drilled.

Drill and tap holes for Stainless Steel Machine screws, instead of using the screws provided with the tabs. The wood-type screws are provided, in part, because professional installers don't want to spend the extra time and effort it takes to drill and tap.

Make a plywood template to set the initial adjustment of your tabs per manufacturer's specifications. My tabs were to be set at 7 degrees, so I made a plywood template that fit under the tabs and extended about ten inches under the hull. This allowed me to initially set my tabs at exactly seven degrees.

Roy

jmorgan40 posted 01-14-2007 12:33 PM ET (US)     Profile for jmorgan40  Send Email to jmorgan40     
Jim,
Do I get credit for having my boat in your reference. I bought it from Rob Stevens about 2 1/2 years ago. In addition, if you look at the pics I have posted in my profile, you will see I removed the 12x12 Lenco tabs and installed 9x12 Lenco Troll-n-Tabs. Your welcome to include one of those photos if you like.
Thanks for all the great reference material
Joe
jimh posted 01-14-2007 12:43 PM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
Joe's refit of new tabs has been included in the article. Thanks for the digital image.
Royboy posted 01-14-2007 01:16 PM ET (US)     Profile for Royboy  Send Email to Royboy     
[Again changed the topic to one of literary criticsm, but finally got back on the topic of trim tab installation on classic Boston Whaler boats--jimh]

Accurately mark the locations for the tabs and their mounting hole by using two-way tape to attach the hinges to the hull. Whether to drill and tap, or to use the screws that come with the tabs, the use of two-way tape to temprarily place the tabs prior to drilling will ensure everything lines up properly. The tape is strong enough to temporarily install the tabs too, to make sure everything will clear them (and they will clear everything) during operation. Remove the hinges from the boat with a wooden wedge when all holes have been drilled, but prior to tapping.

Roy

jimh posted 01-14-2007 02:27 PM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
Roy--You should give some thought to preparing your own comprehensive instructions on how to install trim tabs. I just tried to point out the three most likely locations for them on the transom of a classic Boston Whaler boat. I believe your post-Classic Boston Whaler boat may have a different sort of transom configuration, and this information about the transom configuration of classic Boston Whaler boats may not be useful to you. However, I am fairly certain that some readers will find it to be interesting.

Makers of trim tabs usually have customer support lines and people can call them if they have specific questions about the installation instructions for those products. I am sure they get a lot of calls. I did review the manufacturer's installation instructions for several brands. I thought they were sufficient to explain the process of installing the tabs. However, as I mention, the manufacturers' instructions do not take into consideration the transom configuration as seen on a classic Boston Whaler. That is the fundamental reason for my article. I think I explained it in the first sentence; I will repeat it here.

"Because of the construction of the transom of classic Boston Whaler hulls from 18 to 27 feet, special consideration must be given to the location for mounting trim tabs."

jmorgan40 posted 01-14-2007 07:50 PM ET (US)     Profile for jmorgan40  Send Email to jmorgan40     
Jim--Yes, since the new Troll-n-Tabs were also 12" wide Lenco's, it was easier to mount in the same location. In fact all the holes matched up but a few. I was also able to use the same actuator holes although the Troll-n-Tabs do use a different actuator that extends about an extra two inches than the standard one. Thanks for posting.
Joe
Buckda posted 01-14-2007 11:13 PM ET (US)     Profile for Buckda  Send Email to Buckda     
Jim--Great addition to the site. I recently also did an installation of Lenco tabs on my 18' Outrage.

There are three photos which may be informative/helpful to your readers who have twin engines, and that detail further some of your points in the article.

The first details the trim tab install, mounted outboard of the raised portion of the transom, and includes detail of how the tie-down points were relocated on the trailer to accommodate the trim tabs.

[Dave's photographs and comments were moved to the article itself--jimh.]

Again -great article...It would have been helpful in my installation, so I hope it helps others who are considering this modification.

Dave

jimh posted 01-28-2007 11:09 AM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
Dave--I included your fine images in the article. Thanks.
jimh posted 01-28-2007 01:17 PM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
Regarding Roy's advice to use machine screws and drill and tap into the laminate, I do not have any experience with this and I cannot offer any corroboration of that advice. I do observe that the manufacturers of trim tabs have apparently been quite successfully providing their customers with self-tapping screws to use in the installations of their products, and, if the many decades of their experience is any guideline, a self-tapping screw seems to work well. (It also seems to have worked in the examples shown in the article, as well.)

I do not have any information which would cause me to believe that it is necessary to use a machine screw and tap and thread the hull laminate. One problem I do see with using a machine screw and drilling and tapping the laminate is the potential for the depth of the hole to be improper. With a self-tapping fastener the pointed nature of the fastener and its self-tapping design insures that the hole it makes is no deeper than needed. If one undertakes the process of drilling and tapping holes for all of the fasteners on a trim tab, you may make the holes too deep or not deep enough. Neither outcome is attractive.

If the holes are not made deep enough, the blunt bottom of the machine screw will be forced into the hull laminate when it is tightened, which may cause a crack. Or, even worse, the fastener could be tightened until it bottomed out, leaving some play in the mount. If the hole is made too deep, there will be a void at the bottom. In general it is best to avoid creating any sort of void in the hull, particularly in an area which will be submerged most of the time the boat is underway. While you could fill the hole with excess sealant, my feeling is that the least amount of material removed from the hull structure the better. Undisturbed laminate adds more strength than a pocket of sealant at the bottom of a hole.

Also, I have not seen any information which shows that a constant diameter machine screw produces a higher strength fastener in a material such as the resin and cloth laminate used in a Boston Whaler boat. In places where Boston Whaler does use machine screws for fasteners, they embed a material such as WHALEBOARD or ALUMINUM for holding the threads of the machine screw. They generally use self-tapping screws in areas where the fastener is being held in just the laminate of the hull. Thus Roy's recommendation is contrary to the practices of Boston Whaler.

Also, the threads of machine screws are generally rather fine and closely spaced and may not provide even as much strength as that of a self-tapping screws, those threads are generally coarser and more widely spaced.

I would be glad to include any first-hand reports of where a self-tapping screw failed due to the lack of strength of the fastener's purchase into the laminate material of a Boston Whaler hull when holding a trim tab.

I also observe that the forces on the hinge attachment are mainly shear forces or compression. The length of the fastener may be of more importance than the design of its threads, in that case.

As for Roy's advice on how to mark the holes, I agree. I think it resolves to a form of general advice, which is: mark any hole carefully before drilling into the beautiful hull laminate structure of your Boston Whaler boat. For those who were not aware of that principle, I regret that I did not explicitly provide that advice in my article, but I suggest that it more or less goes without saying. When installing anything on your Boston Whaler boat it is a darn good idea to carefully mark and check the holes before drilling them. If you need to hold a work piece in place as a template, use of a temporary adhesive like tape is certainly one solution.

Roy's advice to make a jig to hold the tab in a preset location when the actuator has been fully retracted in order to determine the location of the actuator base mounting holes echoes similar advice provided (in at least one case) by the manufacturer in the detailed instructions they include with their products. I certainly have no quarrel with that. As I noted, the purpose of my article is not to give specific instructions on how to accomplish the installation of trim tabs--I leave that to the manufacturer--but rather to demonstrate several variations in location on the unusual transom of a Boston Whaler boat.

Royboy's criticism of my article notwithstanding, I see it has now become the first "hit" in the GOOGLE search for the argument "boston whaler trim tab" out of 31,000 possible articles. Not bad for having been on-line for less than a month, if I do say so myself.

Royboy posted 01-30-2007 12:50 PM ET (US)     Profile for Royboy  Send Email to Royboy     
This might be best left to a separate discussion of fastening techniques for Boston Whaler Boats, but here is a little better explanation of my post on fastening trim tabs to a Boston Whaler:

My engineering rationale for recommending drilled and tapped fasteners was due to the nature of the materials being joined. In this case, a metal plate to a fiberglass plate, and to the stresses involved: mostly shear with some tension. In both cases, the thread form is of little consequence, since the root area of the fastener is where all of the strength is. In other words, the point of failure will be what's left of the shank once the threads are cut into it.

There is much more here mechanically speaking, but generally, the number of engaged threads needed to effect full strength is relatively few. Usually around three to five threads will yield a strength (in torsion) that will exceed the strength of the root area of the fastener. In shear, you theoretically don't need any. Don't try this at home, however.

In the case of joining two thin members, i.e. the metal hinge plate of the trim tab and the fiberglass hull, there will likely be plenty of thickness to affect a joint equal to its task. However, where the widely spaced threads of the wood style screws supplied are concerned, there may or may not be enough threads engaged to achieve full strength. With fine (or even course) machine threads, there is a greater likelihood of achieving full fastener strength.

Add into this, the risk of chipping away some of the fiberglass thickness due to trying to force the large thread diameter of a wood screw into the undersized hole and we may loose some of the precious thickness needed to approach full strength.

My point here is that while full strength is not actually required for this joint, one has a better chance of achieving it with machine screws.

Regardless of whether the drilled hole is ultimately for a wood screw or a machine screw, it needs to be drilled to an appropriate depth. Normally, this is going to be "through" the fiberglass of the hull and into the foam behind it. When this is the case, the hole depth is much less critical in either application, since either a pointed wood screw or a blunt machine screw will both readily compress the foam. If the pilot hole is not drilled deeply enough, either screw is going to bottom out, and no "self tapping" feature is going to improve the outcome.

Having said all of this, it's not likely one could go wrong by following the manufacturers recommendations. I do, however, stand by my analysis of the joint, and the notion that the screws used by the manufacturers and/or installers are chosen for a variety of reasons not related to performance, such as cost of the components and the time required to do the job.

As Paul Harvey would say, "Now you know.....the rest of the story"

Roy

jimh posted 07-28-2007 02:31 PM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
Many thanks to Allan Seymour who kindly contributed photographs of the installation of Lenco edge-mount electric trim tabs to his 190 NANTUCKET.
lwallis posted 08-03-2007 04:35 PM ET (US)     Profile for lwallis  Send Email to lwallis     
Allen: Your installation looks great, I too have a 190 and wasn't sure about installing with the swim ladder platform. Now I see that you very well can. Are your trailer plates Vermont, I grew up in South Burlington. - - Lars
jimh posted 09-15-2007 11:38 PM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
The choice of a particular brand of trim tabs is beyond the scope of my article. On a classic Boston Whaler boat the location for mounting a trim tab is more or less independent of the brand of trim tab being used. If readers would like to begin a discussion about the relative merits of various brands of trim tabs they should do so in a separate discussion.
highanddry posted 09-16-2007 04:07 AM ET (US)     Profile for highanddry  Send Email to highanddry     
Interesting as I am sitting here trying to figure the same thing on my Nantucket. Why, on the Nantucket pictured, would you not place the tabs as far outboard as possible, to the hook of the chine? The ones pictured seem to be an inch or so inboard of what would seem to be the best postion--is there a reason I don't know of?
louylouy posted 02-14-2011 09:33 AM ET (US)     Profile for louylouy  Send Email to louylouy     
Hello. I am entering this discussion quite late, but would like to add my comments both on the type of tab and the installation method. First, I have a 1997 Whaler 15'1" Dauntlus with a 60 hp. Johnson (J60TLEV). I bought the boat with less than 200 hrs. use. Although the performance with only two aboard was acceptable, coming out of the hole was fair at best and like most Whalers with this hull design, the boat had a tendency to porpoise on plane when trimmed for speed.

After seeing a report on Ship Shape TV about the Nauticus Smart Tab, I read many comments about owners who had installed it. All comments were favorable. I ordered a set. The ones for my boat are 9" wide by 7.5" deep, SS with 60 lb. rubber booted gas shock absorbers. They are installed as far outboard as possible, flush with the hull bottom, and at a nominal 25 degree angle to the bottom. Although they follow the lateral angle of the hull, this does not matter in performance.

These are not controllable. They work on their own absorbing transom "shock" in all modes of operation. Coming out of the hole the bow rises very little. I can even come out of the hole with two people seated full aft! Likewise, the min. speed on plane is reduced almost 5 mph. They provide both longitudinal and lateral stability and allow me to trim the engine up two or more increments giving almost 100% longitudinal thrust and 3 mph higher top end. Unlike powered tabs, these are continually working to stabilize the hull. At about 22 mph, the tabs are forced full up by water pressure giving NO drag at all. Again, since they are installed farthest outboard, they give max. lateral stability.

As far as mounting hardware, I used the SS screws provided, but after marking and drilling holes, I use a countersink bit to slightly chamfer the gel coat opening allowing more room for the 3M 5200 sealant to form a hole gasket.

The tabs have adjustment slots to completely tailor the tab to your boat. I'd highly recommend investigating these tabs as they will solve just about any handling problem with minimum outlay and very long life. They now have tabs for boats up past 25" and absorbers up to 80 lbs. pressure and mounted two to a plate. That's up to 320 lbs. of control applied to the transom. Happy and Safe boating.

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