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2007 Mercury 90-HP FourStroke or VERADITO: Engine Cuts Out
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ContinuousWave Whaler Moderated Discussion Areas
ContinuousWave: Whaler Repairs/Mods
2007 Mercury 90-HP FourStroke or VERADITO: Engine Cuts Out
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| Author | Topic: 2007 Mercury 90-HP FourStroke or VERADITO: Engine Cuts Out |
| WT |
posted 07-28-2007 01:24 AM ET (US)  
I have a 2004 170 Montauk and I swapped outboards from the 4 stroke carburetor 90 4 stroke to the new Veradito 4 stroke EFI last February 2007. My first 20 hours on the new Mercury Veradito was flawless. During my next 80 hours I've had a problem. The problem is that I get an alarm that goes off for about 1/2 of a second and my motor cuts off. The motor never dies but I lose power for that fraction of a second. Picture running along at 30 mph and the power cuts off for a fraction of a second. It's irritating because you lunge forward when it happens. The problem happens at any rpm level. I can't make the problem happen. It may happen 4-5 times per hour or sometimes even less. Sometimes the problem does occur either. The dealer says the default codes are not recorded because the alarm only happens for a fraction of a second. The dealer has: My dealers next step is to replace my whole wiring harness. I recharge my batteries after every outing with my inboard battery charger. I just noticed that my cranking battery now needs a full recharge after a days use. It use to recharge after just a few minutes, meaning that the running battery was never discharged very much. I now think it may be my running battery that is causing the outboard to sound off with the alarm for that fractional second perhaps because the running battery is low. The battery was purchased around April 2004. I never have any problem starting the outboard. There is no indication that the battery is weak. The load test says my battery is still functioning at acceptable levels. What do you think is my problem? Thanks, Warren |
| erik selis |
posted 07-28-2007 03:38 AM ET (US)
Warren, We had a similar problem with the new 90 E-Tec we put on the 1984 Montauk I restored last year. The first 20 or 30 hours she ran flawlessly. Then she would also start to hesitate while running at various rpm's. You couldn't reproduce the problem at will. It happened randomly but as time went by it would happen more frequently. There was also no fault log of any kind. It was very annoying when travelling at WOT and then losing power for a short moment then to be followed by full power again. In this case it was a faulty fuel injector that also prematurely fouled the spark plug in the bottom cylinder. The injector has been replaced and the problem no longer occurs. I don't know if this could have anything to do with your problem but I just wanted to mention it because the effects of your problem sound similar. Good Luck. Erik |
| rtk |
posted 07-28-2007 09:36 AM ET (US)
Does the engine completely cut out(not firing at all), or is it a drastic reduction in engine power? If it is completely cutting out I would look at the safety shut off/kill switch. Should be easy and not terribly expensive to replace. Maybe you have a flaky switch. A flaky key switch could also cause the problem you are experiencing. Running the boat with a new harness may not be a bad idea. They are not terribly expensive, and also not difficult to change. You do not even have to take the old one out- just run it along the deck, hook it up to the engine and see if the problem persists. If not, replace the harness. If it does, you eliminated the harness. Rich |
| rtk |
posted 07-28-2007 09:40 AM ET (US)
Sorry Warren, glanced over the part about the batteries. I'd try a fresh battery first, then move on. I had a battery that bench and load tested just fine, but wouldn't hold a charge for nothing. I replaced it and did not have a problem with the battery dying after that. The battery was only 6 months old. Good luck with it. Rich |
| jimh |
posted 07-28-2007 10:00 AM ET (US)
I think the problem you are having with the 2007 Mercury 90-HP "FourStroke" or VERADITO motor is very likely an electrical problem. (This is based on having observed the problem first hand while aboard Warren's boat.) The engine cuts out and resumes operation so fast, it is hard to come up with a fuel or air supply problem which would produce such a dramatic on-off operation of the motor. The lack of any recorded fault code in the motor does suggest that the problem might be external to the computer module. Or the nature of the problem is such that it cuts off the electrical supply to the motor completely during that half-second. With sophisticated motors, problems like this can be hard to locate. By way of commiserating with you, I can tell you that at my workplace we have been having similar problems with a very large and expensive stationary diesel generator system. The generator, intended for emergency power back up, was very unreliable and often refused to run for more than a few minutes or sometimes even to start. After months and months of frustrating service from the local support field engineers who were mainly looking at external devices or connectors as the problem, we finally escalated our complaints to the corporate level. At that point the manufacturer began to replace major components of the electrical system. First one electronic controller was replaced, then a second. The problem still persisted. Finally, the entire wiring harness on the engine and its control system was replaced. This cured the problem. I do not recall if we ever got a precise diagnosis of what was wrong in that harness, but since it was replaced the engine has been 100-percent reliable. I mention all this as a source of potential encouragement for you. |
| boatdryver |
posted 07-28-2007 10:50 AM ET (US)
Warren, I'd also replace the battery. It is 3 years old anyway. It could have an internal fault from all the crashing around in San Pablo Bay and the Ocean. and, its something you can do yourself in a couple of hours for just over $100 and go test the boat yourself without the delay in waiting for your dealer to get to it during the summer rush. JimL |
| WT |
posted 07-28-2007 12:41 PM ET (US)
Thanks for the words of wisdom. 1) I'm going to have my running battery replaced. Warren |
| jimh |
posted 07-28-2007 03:29 PM ET (US)
It may also be helpful to mention that when Warren's new 2007 Mercury 90-HP FourStroke or VERADITO motor cuts out, an alarm beeper sounds a short BEEP. For someone who is very familiar with the Mercury alarm and electronics, this information may be useful in making a diagnosis. |
| Peter |
posted 07-29-2007 07:18 AM ET (US)
I second the advice for changing the battery as the first step. I'm not an advocate for attacking problems by replacing parts but in the case of the battery is already due for a replacement and replacing it will eliminate a variable. Also, from what I've read about the Verado motors, they are very sensitive to battery condition so this Veradito off-spring may also have the same sensitivity. |
| bigjohn1 |
posted 07-29-2007 08:46 AM ET (US)
Warren, you have already been given great advice IMO but one other thought lingers in my head -- if the battery replacement does not work. I understand the dealer changing out the crank position sensor since it is one of a few items which signals your ECM computer module. From a logical troubleshooting standpoint though, it would seem to make more sense if the dealer ran a test on the various electrical components before replacing the entire harness. A new harness will not fix a faulty components. Just a thought. |
| dbrown |
posted 07-29-2007 11:24 AM ET (US)
Warren, Sorry to hear of your problems with the new Merc. I also have a 2007 90 HP that has performed perfectly, at least up to the current 52 hours. Please post the fix for yours just in case I run into this in the future...Thanks, |
| WT |
posted 07-29-2007 01:26 PM ET (US)
I upgraded to some very expensive batteries about 3 years ago. I visited the electronics salesman/installer and he checked out my batteries. He told me I didn't need a new starting battery but I could change it if I "REALLY" wanted to. Spending $200 for a starting battery might not be the smartest thing to do, if one changes starting batteries every 3 years as a routine. I'm going to buy a new battery. I'll keep everyone posted as to my mystery cut-off problem.
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| alexbw13 |
posted 07-29-2007 03:00 PM ET (US)
i dont know if mercury is the same as evinrude but when u first start them they make a short beep. if the battery cable is lose it will also beep because it is getting power again. ur battery cables may be loose check them |
| bigjohn1 |
posted 07-29-2007 07:19 PM ET (US)
Uhmm, check his first post there alexbw13, tightening battery terminals is one of the first things he did. |
| WT |
posted 08-03-2007 01:41 AM ET (US)
Update. I have changed my starting battery. I have a three bank onboard battery charger that charges my starting battery and two trolling batteries. The bank that charges my starting battery was overcharging my battery and must have ruined my starting battery. I asked if my electronics guy (not my Boston Whaler dealer) if it's possible that the bad charger might be causing my outboard cut off problem. He said he didn't think so because once the outboard is started it doesn't rely on the starting battery. I haven't had a chance to run my boat to see if my cut off problem still exists. Perhaps this weekend. I still have not changed my wiring harness yet. Warren |
| Plotman |
posted 08-03-2007 09:47 AM ET (US)
Warren - I don't know if this applies to the new veraditos, but I do know that what your electronics guy says is tru for old-style outboards, it is not true for optimaxes. They get real funny if they don't have a good battery. |
| dbrown |
posted 08-03-2007 11:17 AM ET (US)
Plotman is absolutley correct. The 4-strokes must have a good battery to perform properly... And thanks for the update Warren.... |
| rtk |
posted 08-03-2007 11:27 AM ET (US)
Good luck with her Warren. I'd see how the replacement battery goes before swapping out the harness. Rich |
| george nagy |
posted 08-03-2007 12:47 PM ET (US)
I was under the impression that you can't mix deep cycle and starting batteries when using AGM batteries, Maybe this could lead to the battery's failure? |
| WT |
posted 08-07-2007 04:12 PM ET (US)
Update: My son took the Montauk out today. The motor still cuts off with the new starting battery. I have an appointment Monday to have my wiring harness replaced at my Boston Whaler dealer. I hope the wiring harness does the trick. Warren |
| jimh |
posted 08-07-2007 09:06 PM ET (US)
Warren--Thanks for the update. I hope you can get this resolved soon. Your beautiful 170 MONTAUK is such a nice boat that it is a shame to have this persistent problem with the brand new Mercury motor. |
| WT |
posted 08-08-2007 12:24 AM ET (US)
Update: I have a new battery and a new onboard charger for the battery. The charger has been on trying to recharge my new battery for the past 6 hours and won't fully recharge it. Could the new outboard be draining my new battery some how while running the boat? Or the charger or new battery is defective? Warren |
| bigjohn1 |
posted 08-08-2007 08:55 AM ET (US)
Troubleshoot by isolating the boat from the equation. Unhook the battery from the boat's wiring and continue to charge it. If it accepts a full charge, the problem is not the battery. I want to again consider the dealer's desire to change out an entire wiring harness prior to isolation testing of the outboard's various electrical components - It defies what I term conventional troubleshooting protocol. The "Aces Wild" in this is -- perhaps the dealer is aware of a service bulletin relating to the harness OR, perhaps someone at the dealer recalls a wire or connector being pulled, stretched, or otherwise damaged during your rigging. On the previous "YamaMerc" version of this engine, the dealer used several Mercury special wiring adapters (along with a simple blinking test light) which interfaced between a standard digital multimeter and the indidual electrical component. The individual tests of these components is a relatively quick procedure. Perhaps on your latest generation Mercury Four Stroke, a single hookup to a computer is all it takes, or perhaps the test is very similar to the previous generation 90/115efi. In either case, they are tests which can be done quicker than replacing an entire harness. That is why I mention them. Food for thought in any event. |
| bigjohn1 |
posted 08-08-2007 09:06 AM ET (US)
Another thought as I re-read the symptoms in your original post. The troubleshooting procedures for the previous version 90/115efi stated to check the following in order when symptoms like yours appeared: 1. Throttle Positon Sensor I have heard of one occurance locally here where the oil pressure switch was sending faulty signals to the ECM which caused the ECM to cut power to 2 cylinders intermitently because the computer thought the engine was overheating. As I recall, the book states if all of the above test out favorably, suspect a faulty ECM. This part is not testable on the previous version outboard but perhaps it is on yours? |
| WT |
posted 08-08-2007 10:38 AM ET (US)
bigjohn1: Thanks, I'll mention it to the dealer. They have been in contact with Mercury to troubleshoot the problem. Warren |
| WT |
posted 08-08-2007 12:44 PM ET (US)
Update: My new battery is fine. It took 6-7 hours to fully recharge my starting battery. My new charger for the starting battery is only 4 amps, my old charger is 15 amps. I am told the new charger will take a lot longer to fully recharge my starting battery. Thanks, Warren |
| andygere |
posted 08-08-2007 01:20 PM ET (US)
Warren, Sorry to hear about the bug in your new motor, it must be frustrating. I'm curious about why you need to use an on-board charger to charge the starting battery. The alternator on the engine should take care of that, and those nice AGM batteries really hold a charge well. I've yet to even need to trickle charge the Optimas in my Outrage since installing them over a year ago. Do you think there is some type of parasitic drain on the start battery, or perhaps a problem with the outboard's charging system? Regardless, I'm hoping that the new harness will solve your problem. |
| WT |
posted 08-08-2007 04:30 PM ET (US)
The outboard charging system is another item I'll mention to my dealer to check. Andy, I have a three batteries, 2 for my 24 volt trolling motor and 1 as my starting/running battery. When I bought the batteries I had a 3 bank on-board charger installed. One of the three banks on the charger that was connected to my starting/running battery wasn't working properly. So I installed another one bank charger to charge my starting/running battery. I guess I really don't need to recharge my starting battery after every use. Regarding parasitic draining of my battery, I turn off my Perko switch prior to charging my batteries. My boat should not have any parasitic drain with the Perko switch turned off.
|
| WT |
posted 08-10-2007 06:23 PM ET (US)
Well, I took a 75 mile round trip cruise down the Sacramento River today in my 170 Montauk. Running downstream at less than 5000 rpm, my outboard never cut-off. So after 2 hours of cruising at about 4000-4200 rpm, my boat ran like a fine Swiss watch. On the way back at over 5,000 rpm my boat cut-off 7-8 times. It did not cut-off when I slowed down to 4200-4500 rpm. This is maddening. I hope the installation of the new wiring harness next week solves my problem. I will also check for a bad fuel injector/sensor, oil pressure sensor/switch and ignition switch(I think the new wiring harness includes a new ignition switch). Warren |
| jimh |
posted 08-10-2007 08:13 PM ET (US)
Oh my! I just realized that a bad ignition switch could account for all of these problems. That is not beyond the realm of possibility. |
| WT |
posted 08-11-2007 12:32 AM ET (US)
I'll find out next week. Thanks, Warren |
| Steve Leone |
posted 08-11-2007 11:49 AM ET (US)
Jim is entirely correct about a faulty ignition switch. That is why the alarm sounds for just a second. The ignition is momentarily turning the ignition "off". There are other breaks in the line of course, if you follow the electrical "plumbing" for that circuit: neutral cutout switch in the control box, kill switch (lanyard), pin connectors at several junctions to motor harness, or as previously suggested, the motor harness itself. There may also be a trim limiter switch that could come into play (this switch cuts out the ignition so you do not start your outboard in the "up" position. Also known as a "mercury switch" in the early Merc brainstorm). Steve |
| WT |
posted 08-30-2007 07:36 PM ET (US)
Update: I picked up my 170 Montauk yesterday from the dealer. They changed the wiring harness including my ignition switch. My son took the boat out fishing today and reported no cut-off problems. I hope the cut-off problem is solved. Warren |
| dbrown |
posted 08-30-2007 07:42 PM ET (US)
That's good news Warren. Hopefully that's the end of that. My mechanic called today on the problem I was having (Intermittant starter problem) and said the starter was defective. Replacing it tomorrow and should be good to go.... |
| jimh |
posted 08-30-2007 11:28 PM ET (US)
Warren--Since they changed two components, the ignition switch and the wiring harness, if the problem is now solved we will never know which one was the culprit. I hope the problem has been cured, but it would be fun to know exactly what was the cause. |
| WT |
posted 08-31-2007 12:36 AM ET (US)
Jim: It's true that we didn't isolate the problem. My dealer performed all the work free of charge. If they isolated the problem to the ignition switch, the work might not have been covered. So today I have a new wiring harness and a new ignition switch, free of charge. Warren |
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