Rub Rail: Installation with New Fasteners, New Holes

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Author Topic:   Rub Rail: Installation with New Fasteners, New Holes

scottfarm posted 12-29-2007 07:46 PM ET (US)
What size and cap type [stainless steel screws] would be best [to use in fastening the rub rail to a Boston Whaler boat]? I am going to order somes stainless screws from Mcmaster-Carr. I am figuring a #4 316 stainless 1/2 inch long.
Would it be best to fill in holes that I drilled the rivets out of and drill new holes for the new screws?
Binkie posted 12-29-2007 10:03 PM ET (US)
Don`t use the same holes, Fill and drill. Glass is weaker around old holes. When I replaced my rubrail last summer I used the supplied rivets. If screws were better Whaler would have used them. I only used screws when making the tight corners at the bow. I think I used #8 about 1 1/2" long. You need a longer screw than 1/2" so that you can run the screw in the hole and pull the rail tight. Rivets are much easier along the straight sections.
Rich
scottfarm posted 12-29-2007 10:38 PM ET (US)
Binkie: Did you use 3/16 rivets? How long was the depth of the rivets?
Binkie posted 12-30-2007 06:59 AM ET (US)
I`m not sure on the size of the rivets. They came with the rubrail kit. They may have been 3/16 x 1". I`ll check to see if I have any left and measure them. The rubrail is very stiff material, even in a 90 degree garage last summer, You might need to soak the coil in a 5 gallon bucket of hot water this time of year.
Rich
RM NY posted 12-30-2007 09:05 AM ET (US)
they used rivets because there is no backing material for screws to grab.
If your old rail had rivets- use them again, dont try to use screws.
macfam posted 12-30-2007 09:22 AM ET (US)
I just did the rubrail in my 13'SS this past weekend in a heated garage. A heatgun is a MUST!!
An alternative/addition might be to soak the track coil in a tub of 100 degree water for a long while.
No rivets were supplied with the three coils from Barbour Plastics.
I used Stanley 3/16" x 1/2" long. I also used 3/16" x 5/8" long.
I bought the 5/8' just in case the 1/2" were too short. I really didn't see a big difference, although the 5/8" did seem a bit tougher install, but grabbed excellent.
I also used three large racheting clamps which were most helpful.
I used rivets becase that what Boston Whaler did originally, and it lasted for 20 years.
I drilled off the cap of the original rivets, pulled off the rail system, and drove the old rivets back into the hull and filled with MarineTex.
There was about a 6" section of the hull/gunnel that had had a previous repair. It needed to be properly filled with MarineTex. In this small section I did use SS sheet metal 1.5 inch phillips head screws. That worked well too.
SS screws will work for the entire rubrail installation, but I'm not convinced they would work as well for 20 years.
The threads are not holding that much glass, and are not through bolted.
This project came out pretty well and a huge improvement over the old beat-up and cracked rubrail.
Also, new wiring for the bow and stern fits nicely under the the black insert.
zotcha posted 12-30-2007 10:10 AM ET (US)
Perfect timing! Thought I would be digging through the archives for this project. Unexpectedly started messing with the 1988 15 yesterday. While attempting to "bench test" my 'new to me 1988 TnT', I pulled every aborted wire I could find. This led to switches, compass, transducer, wood risers, seats, console, steering and finally all railings. Even the bilge pump screwed into the sump!?!She's pretty much gutted!
Just before game time and could not get any assistance from TnT.
This refurb is going to require rub rail replacement, the only item left original on my 1982 refurb. Looking forward to it. Have the heated shop, bucket of hot water, heat gun, and a helper. Anything else I should need? Cut to the chase and order direct from Twin Cities? Request seperate SS rivets? Size? Any surprises removing original? Soaked bow chuck last night before closing for the night.
Thanks. zotcha (and PITA)
Binkie posted 12-30-2007 10:55 AM ET (US)
pics of my rubrail installation;
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c191/floridaboy2053/Whaler%20repair/ rubrail5.jpg
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c191/floridaboy2053/Whaler%20repair/ rubrai3-1.jpg
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c191/floridaboy2053/Whaler%20repair/ rubrail4-1.jpg
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c191/floridaboy2053/Whaler%20repair/ rubrail2-1.jpg
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c191/floridaboy2053/Whaler%20repair/ rubrail1-1.jpg
Note: The top piece was too short by about 4 feet. I called Twin Cities, and the sent a complete new roll. I just spliced it in and it is not noticeable. When you start let the end run wild over the back edge, and you should have a few extra inches when complete. To finish just put masking tape under the rail, and cut it off carefully with a HAND saw. shouldn`t be a problem. I did the job by myself, but a helper would have speeded the process. Take you time. This is no job to be in a hurry with.
Buy from Twin Cities (Sue) no hassle, comes with rivets.
Rich
zotcha posted 12-30-2007 11:42 AM ET (US)
Wow! That does look Sweeeet! Is that the two piece RR? Just wondering after I saw the bow light wiring hanging there. What exactly does the rivet bight into? All of the interior holes are pretty oversized due to a poor attempt at replacing the original interior. (Should have photographed prior to going mad yesterday!). Thought was to fill with 5200 and drive wooden golf tee's to remount areas such as risers and base of console leg, because some are just Shot! Side and bow railings were not too bad, but I do not plan to remount the original bow rail. Thinking about countersinking the gelcoat and filling with large headed SS flathead Phillips, as I did in the 1982. Will replace bow rail if I ever decide/need to sell.
Thanks for the photo's, definate help. Will call Sue Wednesday.
Bink, that console looks sharp! Not sure how I'm going to redesign the next one. Attempting to place battery under console, raising dash, and hinging a portion of the aft vertical board, enabling access from the rear. Guess I need to start my own thread now. Thanks all, and Happy New Year! zot.
macfam posted 12-30-2007 08:31 PM ET (US)
zotcha,
I used ALUMINUM rivets just as the original ones, not stainless.
I bought the largest riveter available at Home Depot, and the directions warned that the unit was NOT recommended for 3/16" stainless steel rivets. (I'm assuming they are too tough)
The aluminum worked well.
hardensheetmetal posted 12-30-2007 08:55 PM ET (US)
I use rivets quite often at work, both stainless,aluminum, (and galvanized). When I have changed out the rubrails on several 13' whalers I have always used the aluminum rivets supplied with the kit. I believe that the larger aluminum rivets are a better choice for this application where all of the pressure is being applied to the back of the glass and you would want the most surface area to pull against. The larger (1/4"?) aluminum rivets expand out nicely and do so much easier than a stainless rivet of the same diameter. The aluminum does not have the corrosion resistance of the stainless, but as we have all seen, the OEM aluminum rivets held up very well.
Dan
Yiddil posted 12-30-2007 10:29 PM ET (US)
Binkie, Nice pics....
I sreplaced my 1964 rub rail witha white one from Sue's operation and it was like wrestling a lobster under water sometimes...but it came out gorgeous. I to used ribbits rather than screws, and that worked for me...some do some dont....
Matter of fact, i still have the original rub rail from the 64 laying around somewhere..it was old but still usable so i just put it off on the side for now....
Look for my posts, there are pics out there of her with the new rub rail...but not many of her with the new oem side rails:)
I did mine my self too, but had a friend come by witha ribbit gun and tools to help:)finished her myself and was very pleased..good luck:)
Dave Thomas posted 12-31-2007 09:51 AM ET (US)
I just received a rubrail kit from the local whaler dealer which included 1-1/2 inch,self drilling stainless steel flat head screws.The screws have a coating applyed to a section of the threads which is either a lubricant or sealer. Don't know which. I'd say use a light touch and a slow speed so as not to strip them in the glass.
scottfarm posted 01-01-2008 10:42 AM ET (US)
Thanks a million for all the replies. I got just two pieces from Barbours. I noticed while taking the old one off, the original was three pieces. I paid $192 for the two pieces shipped to the house for a 54 ft. roll. Hope the two piece works.
jimh posted 01-01-2008 11:57 AM ET (US)
I would use screw fasteners with a Pozidrive head. But make sure you also get the Pozidrive bit to turn them. If you can't get them, Phillips head would be another choice.
I found this interesting discussion of the merits of various screw head drive configurations:
http://www.sizes.com/tools/screw_drive.htm
I think it will be better and also easier to make new holes than to try to reuse the existing holes, but that is not based on actually trying it. I would fill the old holes so that they do not provide a point of ingress for water.
rkmrkm posted 01-01-2008 11:14 PM ET (US)
I just bought my first BW, a '79 Revenge, about a week ago. While taking pictures of my beauty I notice that about a foot and a half of rub rail was loose. Otherwise it appeared to be tight aganist the hull. I saw no fasteners holding the rub rail to the boat. I could see some sort glue/epoxy stuck to the boat at the seperation. Could it be that the Revenge use a "glue" of some sort or are there rivits/scews hidden by the rub rail material? HELP.
PS This site is like manna from heaven.
macfam posted 01-02-2008 08:11 PM ET (US)
rkmrkm,
Take a look at this attached reference article. It shows a cross-section of the 3 piece rub rail system.
//continuouswave.com/whaler/reference/rubRail.html
Can you determine where your rub rail is separating?
Is it just the black insert section not staying into the channels of the track?
Or has the track section been pulled away from the hull?
If the black section has separated from the track, gluing a small section may last OK.
If your track is in great shape, you could order the black insert and re-install.
If the track has separated from the hull, you can pull off the black insert to expose the separated track and rivet or use SS sheet metal screws (1.5") to attach the track, and then put the black insert back into the track.

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Author	Topic: Rub Rail: Installation with New Fasteners, New Holes
scottfarm	posted 12-29-2007 07:46 PM ET (US) What size and cap type [stainless steel screws] would be best [to use in fastening the rub rail to a Boston Whaler boat]? I am going to order somes stainless screws from Mcmaster-Carr. I am figuring a #4 316 stainless 1/2 inch long. Would it be best to fill in holes that I drilled the rivets out of and drill new holes for the new screws?
Binkie	posted 12-29-2007 10:03 PM ET (US) Don`t use the same holes, Fill and drill. Glass is weaker around old holes. When I replaced my rubrail last summer I used the supplied rivets. If screws were better Whaler would have used them. I only used screws when making the tight corners at the bow. I think I used #8 about 1 1/2" long. You need a longer screw than 1/2" so that you can run the screw in the hole and pull the rail tight. Rivets are much easier along the straight sections. Rich
scottfarm	posted 12-29-2007 10:38 PM ET (US) Binkie: Did you use 3/16 rivets? How long was the depth of the rivets?
Binkie	posted 12-30-2007 06:59 AM ET (US) I`m not sure on the size of the rivets. They came with the rubrail kit. They may have been 3/16 x 1". I`ll check to see if I have any left and measure them. The rubrail is very stiff material, even in a 90 degree garage last summer, You might need to soak the coil in a 5 gallon bucket of hot water this time of year. Rich
RM NY	posted 12-30-2007 09:05 AM ET (US) they used rivets because there is no backing material for screws to grab. If your old rail had rivets- use them again, dont try to use screws.
macfam	posted 12-30-2007 09:22 AM ET (US) I just did the rubrail in my 13'SS this past weekend in a heated garage. A heatgun is a MUST!! An alternative/addition might be to soak the track coil in a tub of 100 degree water for a long while. No rivets were supplied with the three coils from Barbour Plastics. I used Stanley 3/16" x 1/2" long. I also used 3/16" x 5/8" long. I bought the 5/8' just in case the 1/2" were too short. I really didn't see a big difference, although the 5/8" did seem a bit tougher install, but grabbed excellent. I also used three large racheting clamps which were most helpful. I used rivets becase that what Boston Whaler did originally, and it lasted for 20 years. I drilled off the cap of the original rivets, pulled off the rail system, and drove the old rivets back into the hull and filled with MarineTex. There was about a 6" section of the hull/gunnel that had had a previous repair. It needed to be properly filled with MarineTex. In this small section I did use SS sheet metal 1.5 inch phillips head screws. That worked well too. SS screws will work for the entire rubrail installation, but I'm not convinced they would work as well for 20 years. The threads are not holding that much glass, and are not through bolted. This project came out pretty well and a huge improvement over the old beat-up and cracked rubrail. Also, new wiring for the bow and stern fits nicely under the the black insert.
zotcha	posted 12-30-2007 10:10 AM ET (US) Perfect timing! Thought I would be digging through the archives for this project. Unexpectedly started messing with the 1988 15 yesterday. While attempting to "bench test" my 'new to me 1988 TnT', I pulled every aborted wire I could find. This led to switches, compass, transducer, wood risers, seats, console, steering and finally all railings. Even the bilge pump screwed into the sump!?!She's pretty much gutted! Just before game time and could not get any assistance from TnT. This refurb is going to require rub rail replacement, the only item left original on my 1982 refurb. Looking forward to it. Have the heated shop, bucket of hot water, heat gun, and a helper. Anything else I should need? Cut to the chase and order direct from Twin Cities? Request seperate SS rivets? Size? Any surprises removing original? Soaked bow chuck last night before closing for the night. Thanks. zotcha (and PITA)
Binkie	posted 12-30-2007 10:55 AM ET (US) pics of my rubrail installation; http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c191/floridaboy2053/Whaler%20repair/ rubrail5.jpg http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c191/floridaboy2053/Whaler%20repair/ rubrai3-1.jpg http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c191/floridaboy2053/Whaler%20repair/ rubrail4-1.jpg http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c191/floridaboy2053/Whaler%20repair/ rubrail2-1.jpg http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c191/floridaboy2053/Whaler%20repair/ rubrail1-1.jpg Note: The top piece was too short by about 4 feet. I called Twin Cities, and the sent a complete new roll. I just spliced it in and it is not noticeable. When you start let the end run wild over the back edge, and you should have a few extra inches when complete. To finish just put masking tape under the rail, and cut it off carefully with a HAND saw. shouldn`t be a problem. I did the job by myself, but a helper would have speeded the process. Take you time. This is no job to be in a hurry with. Buy from Twin Cities (Sue) no hassle, comes with rivets. Rich
zotcha	posted 12-30-2007 11:42 AM ET (US) Wow! That does look Sweeeet! Is that the two piece RR? Just wondering after I saw the bow light wiring hanging there. What exactly does the rivet bight into? All of the interior holes are pretty oversized due to a poor attempt at replacing the original interior. (Should have photographed prior to going mad yesterday!). Thought was to fill with 5200 and drive wooden golf tee's to remount areas such as risers and base of console leg, because some are just Shot! Side and bow railings were not too bad, but I do not plan to remount the original bow rail. Thinking about countersinking the gelcoat and filling with large headed SS flathead Phillips, as I did in the 1982. Will replace bow rail if I ever decide/need to sell. Thanks for the photo's, definate help. Will call Sue Wednesday. Bink, that console looks sharp! Not sure how I'm going to redesign the next one. Attempting to place battery under console, raising dash, and hinging a portion of the aft vertical board, enabling access from the rear. Guess I need to start my own thread now. Thanks all, and Happy New Year! zot.
macfam	posted 12-30-2007 08:31 PM ET (US) zotcha, I used ALUMINUM rivets just as the original ones, not stainless. I bought the largest riveter available at Home Depot, and the directions warned that the unit was NOT recommended for 3/16" stainless steel rivets. (I'm assuming they are too tough) The aluminum worked well.
hardensheetmetal	posted 12-30-2007 08:55 PM ET (US) I use rivets quite often at work, both stainless,aluminum, (and galvanized). When I have changed out the rubrails on several 13' whalers I have always used the aluminum rivets supplied with the kit. I believe that the larger aluminum rivets are a better choice for this application where all of the pressure is being applied to the back of the glass and you would want the most surface area to pull against. The larger (1/4"?) aluminum rivets expand out nicely and do so much easier than a stainless rivet of the same diameter. The aluminum does not have the corrosion resistance of the stainless, but as we have all seen, the OEM aluminum rivets held up very well. Dan
Yiddil	posted 12-30-2007 10:29 PM ET (US) Binkie, Nice pics.... I sreplaced my 1964 rub rail witha white one from Sue's operation and it was like wrestling a lobster under water sometimes...but it came out gorgeous. I to used ribbits rather than screws, and that worked for me...some do some dont.... Matter of fact, i still have the original rub rail from the 64 laying around somewhere..it was old but still usable so i just put it off on the side for now.... Look for my posts, there are pics out there of her with the new rub rail...but not many of her with the new oem side rails:) I did mine my self too, but had a friend come by witha ribbit gun and tools to help:)finished her myself and was very pleased..good luck:)
Dave Thomas	posted 12-31-2007 09:51 AM ET (US) I just received a rubrail kit from the local whaler dealer which included 1-1/2 inch,self drilling stainless steel flat head screws.The screws have a coating applyed to a section of the threads which is either a lubricant or sealer. Don't know which. I'd say use a light touch and a slow speed so as not to strip them in the glass.
scottfarm	posted 01-01-2008 10:42 AM ET (US) Thanks a million for all the replies. I got just two pieces from Barbours. I noticed while taking the old one off, the original was three pieces. I paid $192 for the two pieces shipped to the house for a 54 ft. roll. Hope the two piece works.
jimh	posted 01-01-2008 11:57 AM ET (US) I would use screw fasteners with a Pozidrive head. But make sure you also get the Pozidrive bit to turn them. If you can't get them, Phillips head would be another choice. I found this interesting discussion of the merits of various screw head drive configurations: http://www.sizes.com/tools/screw_drive.htm I think it will be better and also easier to make new holes than to try to reuse the existing holes, but that is not based on actually trying it. I would fill the old holes so that they do not provide a point of ingress for water.
rkmrkm	posted 01-01-2008 11:14 PM ET (US) I just bought my first BW, a '79 Revenge, about a week ago. While taking pictures of my beauty I notice that about a foot and a half of rub rail was loose. Otherwise it appeared to be tight aganist the hull. I saw no fasteners holding the rub rail to the boat. I could see some sort glue/epoxy stuck to the boat at the seperation. Could it be that the Revenge use a "glue" of some sort or are there rivits/scews hidden by the rub rail material? HELP. PS This site is like manna from heaven.
macfam	posted 01-02-2008 08:11 PM ET (US) rkmrkm, Take a look at this attached reference article. It shows a cross-section of the 3 piece rub rail system. //continuouswave.com/whaler/reference/rubRail.html Can you determine where your rub rail is separating? Is it just the black insert section not staying into the channels of the track? Or has the track section been pulled away from the hull? If the black section has separated from the track, gluing a small section may last OK. If your track is in great shape, you could order the black insert and re-install. If the track has separated from the hull, you can pull off the black insert to expose the separated track and rivet or use SS sheet metal screws (1.5") to attach the track, and then put the black insert back into the track.