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Author Topic:   Adjusting Tongue Weight - Moving Axle Ass'y

cindalyn posted 01-10-2008 12:53 AM ET (US)
I need to move my axle ass'y forward to lessen the trailer tongue weight. The axle ass'y is attached to the frame by four bolts on each side of the trailer. Additional bolt holes are available every 5.25 inches.
It looks like I could jack up the entire trailer, remove the bolts and slide the axle assembly forward.
Has anyone done this? The trailer is in good condition but I'm concerned that the axle ass'y and frame may bind and I may not be able to get ouf an awakard situation.
Suggestions?
bigjohn1 posted 01-10-2008 08:01 AM ET (US)
Yes, I have one for you in case your boat is still sitting on the trailer. Launch the boat and tie it off to a dock and perform the axle relocation in the parking lot on the empty trailer - MUCH safer and easier. I have done this a few times on trailers and it normally just takes a large rubber mallet and a few taps at the rear of the tire once the weight is off the trailer. Not knowing the current configuration of the trailer and what type of boat sits on it, its going to be difficult to say with certainty what the precise tongue weight reduction will be with a 5.25" inch shift forward. You're just going to have to try and see.
cindalyn posted 01-10-2008 11:49 AM ET (US)
Did you jack up the trailer first or were you able to move the axle with the tires still on the ground?
sternorama posted 01-10-2008 01:01 PM ET (US)
This is how I did this job succesfully:
Before jacking up the trailer break the spring mounting hardware loose. Then support the trailer (level, on level concrete) well on wide wooden blocks in at least three places with the tires just off of the ground, using the jack to raise the trailer one corner at a time.
Then pull the hardware off, move the axle, and retighten the hardware. In my case, I was dealing with square U bolts on the frame, so I chose to replace the U-bolts with new ones. I had them on hand prior to starting the job. Don't rush! Also, don't completely torque down the new hardware until you test the balance of the rig first (by removing all the blocks that are holding up the trailer) in case you need to fine tune.
Good luck-G
Jerry Townsend posted 01-10-2008 03:38 PM ET (US)
cindalyn - after you move the axle, make sure that the axle is square with the trailer by making sure the distance from the hitch to a common point (spring mount, hub, backing plate, et.al.) on each side of the axle is the same. If the axle is not square, the trailer will "crab" down the highway and can become unstable. ----- Jerry/Idaho
Whale1 posted 01-10-2008 03:43 PM ET (US)
Try doing a search on trailer tongue weight.
There was a very informative thread including the math a while back.

ONH2O
dscew posted 01-10-2008 06:14 PM ET (US)
You might be referring to the excellent CW reference article on trailers, which includes a section on appropriate tongue weight as a ratio to the overall weight of the package. Informative reading, especially when you consider how unsafe a trailer can be if poorly set up. Go to the reference section.
cindalyn posted 01-10-2008 07:43 PM ET (US)
sternorama, I had planned on doing pretty much as you describe but I can only sit the trailer at 2 points because of the way the trailer is made. There is an angle that runs in the middle of the trailer, front to rear, that drops lower than the two outside rails of the trailer. I can get supports behind the axle and about two foot from the hitch. I plan to also use 2 jacks - one one each side for additional support.
Jerry, the way this trailer is made it will be almost impossible NOT to have the axle square with the frame. The axle and springs are welded to angles about 4 ft. long on each side - like a big "H". That's why i'm concerned about binding the assembly if I don't move the weld assembly evenly relative to each of the side frames.
I read numerous post about trailers on this site and they are very informative. It's the personal "I did it this way" that adds to my confidence.
Thanks to all!
contender posted 01-10-2008 09:58 PM ET (US)
Mark your trailer before moving the axle, then you have a point of beginning, can move the axle same distance on each side of trailer, and move back to the correct spot if needed...good luck, PS best to work on trailer with the boat off the trailer, I have land lunched my 17 with no problem
contender posted 01-10-2008 10:00 PM ET (US)
PS another way to lighten the tongue weight is just move the boat back on the trailer and reset the post for the winch, or the lock for the float on type trailer...good luck
cindalyn posted 01-10-2008 10:34 PM ET (US)
Contender good point but I'd rather not add to the lengt of the trailer/boat combo.
bigjohn1 posted 01-11-2008 07:08 AM ET (US)
cindalyn - In the procedure I described, I did not jack up the trailer off the ground. I park the trailer in a gravel lot so the tires and axle just slides with the gravel as you whack the rear of the tire(s). Without the weight of your boat on the trailer, it isn't all that difficult.
Casco Bay Outrage posted 01-11-2008 09:38 AM ET (US)
Ron -

I reviewed the photos you sent me but can't quite see the area where the springs are attached to the frame.
Any way you can take photos of the the area where the springs attach to the frame and the additional holes you have?
Regards.
CBO
P.S. Great news on the lights!
Jefecinco posted 01-11-2008 10:38 AM ET (US)
If the boat is removed from the trailer you should be able to do the work at the ramp with the trailer hooked up to the tow vehicle. You should not need blocks nor need to jack up the trailer. If your trailer is equipped with brakes you may need to provide some adjustment to the hydraulic lines to move the axle. Spring hangers were not mentioned. Is your axle a torsion type? Fenders?
I would clean the rails in the way of axle movement to reduce chances of binding. I would also spread a coat of chassis lubricant over the aforementioned area to facilitate movement.
I would next secure two "comealongs" to the winch post with one each secured to an advantageous location on the axle assembly. The take up mechanism would be at the axle end of the comealong in order to be able to closely observe progress to avoid moving the axle too far forward. Then I would remove the mounting bolts. Next I would SLOWLY take up on the comealongs alternating sides as necessary to provide an even amount of movement on each side. A rubber mallet may be useful for fine tuning the forward movement and to maintain square.
If you do not have comealongs you may be able to do the job with the trailer winch strap/cable. This would probably require a lot of moving around and checking of progress and it would possibly make it more difficult to maintain square. Use of a mooring line to make up a harness to provide for even pull on both sides of the axle could help.
If you have a friend to provide a little help it will probably make the task go more quickly and easily. It should make the job a bit safer, too.
IMO, the tires would simply roll on the parking area surface as no brakes would be applied.
Sounds like fun.
Butch
tomstin posted 01-11-2008 03:35 PM ET (US)
I went through this some time ago. I had a lenghly debate with a few folks on the proper tongue weight. I ended up calling the trailer manufacturer. As it was explained to me, the tongue weight should be 7 - 10% of the weight of the boat and the boat should not extend more than 6 inches beyond the bunkers. Properly position the boat on the trailer, then move the axle forward or back to get the tongue weight correct.
As mentioned above, this is easiest with the boat off the trailer and make sure the axle is square to the tongue when you're done.
It makes a world of difference loading, unloading and towing when you get it right!
Good luck!
Chuck Tribolet posted 01-11-2008 05:53 PM ET (US)
If it's a bunk trailer, the transom must be supported by
the bunks. It should not extend beyond the bunks. The
transom is both the strongest and heaviest part of the boat.

Chuck
kamie posted 01-13-2008 10:43 AM ET (US)
cindalyn,
Launch the boat and you should be able to unbolt the assembly and roll it forward to the next set of holes. I have done the very same thing on the trailer under my 18, but never with the boat on the trailer.
cindalyn posted 01-13-2008 01:05 PM ET (US)
I did it! I jacked up the trailer and boat and put them on a really sturdy foundation of concrete blocks and wood. That was the easy part. I decided to do it this way because I have the boat in the garage, partially disassembled and partially cleaned for waxing. --- This tongue weight issue has been on my mind and I just wanted to get it done.

I started out with over 300 lbs on the tongue. The boat, motor and trailer with gas and other accessories weigh about 2,000 lbs. so I was shooting for about 125 - 150 lb. tongue weight.
Without even seeing the boat and trailer, the local boat dealer told me I should only have to move the axle about 3 inches? Based on this I moved the axle assembly from the 1st set of bolt holes to the 2nd set which was 6 1/4 inches. This brought the tongue weight down to about 240 lb. Still too heavy!
I jacked up the trailer again, removed the tires so I could move the axle assembly under a low hanging lateral cross support and then moved the axle another 12 1/2" to the 4th set of bolt holes. Of course I had to cut some wires and the marker lights had to be removed because they were short of clearing by about 1/8". This brought the tongue weight down to about 90 lb. Too light!
Next I moved the axle assembly to the 3rd set of bolt holes that I had skipped. I skipped them because the brackets that support the bunk boards interfered with the wheel axle. The 2 brackets had to be removed and reversed and drilled and lagged to the bunk boards.
After adding ballast for fuel weight and returning the anchor, battery, seats, covers etc, that I had removed, I ended up with about 140 lbs. tongue weight according to a bathroom scale. That’s about 7 percent of the total gross weight which is within the recommended range. I moved the axle about 12 1/2 inches in total.
I'm sure glad I did this at home rather than launching the boat and doing it at the landing which sounded like a really good idea. I needed more tools than I would have had at the landing (clamp, drift pins, sockets, wrenches, drill, etc.).
LESSONS LEARNED:
Glean as much information from this and other sights as you can but remember not all trailers are created equally. Study your trailer for anticipated problems then prepare for what you missed.
Working with the boat off of the trailer would definitely be easier and safer but, if you don’t hit your target weight the first time - like me, you would have to launch and reload the boat several times.
Anticipate possible interference with the cross members, lights, wiring, boat guides and fenders.
You’ll probably need more different tools that you anticipated and possibly replacement hardware, (I got a little carried away with a T-bar and broke a bolt).
Be certain the trailer is in the ‘loaded state’ before tightening the bolts. In other words, if you had jacked up your trailer and reattached suspended parts, the parts would be hanging on the top of any slotted holes. By putting the trailer in the loaded state the slotted holes are properly positioned and can then be tightened.
Have fun, I’m retired and have no schedules to meet so I enjoyed doing this project but it did get more involved than I had anticipated.
I have pictures but was unable to attach them this time.
jimh posted 01-13-2008 02:13 PM ET (US)
A more scientific method of precomputing the distance to move the axle is described in an article in the REFERENCE section by Jerry Townsend:
Trailer Hitch Loading
by Jerry Townsend
http://continuouswave.com/whaler/reference/trailering/ trailerCalculations.html
Casco Bay Outrage posted 01-13-2008 02:41 PM ET (US)
Ron -
Good for you!!!! You are making lots of progress!
CBO
cindalyn posted 01-13-2008 03:01 PM ET (US)
jimh - I read and printed Jerry's article before I ever started this. Gotta admit, I just ain't that smart!
sternorama posted 01-14-2008 06:16 PM ET (US)
Glad it all worked out! I also have had the experience you mentioned where you end up using tools that you hadn't expected.

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Author	Topic: Adjusting Tongue Weight - Moving Axle Ass'y
cindalyn	posted 01-10-2008 12:53 AM ET (US) I need to move my axle ass'y forward to lessen the trailer tongue weight. The axle ass'y is attached to the frame by four bolts on each side of the trailer. Additional bolt holes are available every 5.25 inches. It looks like I could jack up the entire trailer, remove the bolts and slide the axle assembly forward. Has anyone done this? The trailer is in good condition but I'm concerned that the axle ass'y and frame may bind and I may not be able to get ouf an awakard situation. Suggestions?
bigjohn1	posted 01-10-2008 08:01 AM ET (US) Yes, I have one for you in case your boat is still sitting on the trailer. Launch the boat and tie it off to a dock and perform the axle relocation in the parking lot on the empty trailer - MUCH safer and easier. I have done this a few times on trailers and it normally just takes a large rubber mallet and a few taps at the rear of the tire once the weight is off the trailer. Not knowing the current configuration of the trailer and what type of boat sits on it, its going to be difficult to say with certainty what the precise tongue weight reduction will be with a 5.25" inch shift forward. You're just going to have to try and see.
cindalyn	posted 01-10-2008 11:49 AM ET (US) Did you jack up the trailer first or were you able to move the axle with the tires still on the ground?
sternorama	posted 01-10-2008 01:01 PM ET (US) This is how I did this job succesfully: Before jacking up the trailer break the spring mounting hardware loose. Then support the trailer (level, on level concrete) well on wide wooden blocks in at least three places with the tires just off of the ground, using the jack to raise the trailer one corner at a time. Then pull the hardware off, move the axle, and retighten the hardware. In my case, I was dealing with square U bolts on the frame, so I chose to replace the U-bolts with new ones. I had them on hand prior to starting the job. Don't rush! Also, don't completely torque down the new hardware until you test the balance of the rig first (by removing all the blocks that are holding up the trailer) in case you need to fine tune. Good luck-G
Jerry Townsend	posted 01-10-2008 03:38 PM ET (US) cindalyn - after you move the axle, make sure that the axle is square with the trailer by making sure the distance from the hitch to a common point (spring mount, hub, backing plate, et.al.) on each side of the axle is the same. If the axle is not square, the trailer will "crab" down the highway and can become unstable. ----- Jerry/Idaho
Whale1	posted 01-10-2008 03:43 PM ET (US) Try doing a search on trailer tongue weight. There was a very informative thread including the math a while back. ONH2O
dscew	posted 01-10-2008 06:14 PM ET (US) You might be referring to the excellent CW reference article on trailers, which includes a section on appropriate tongue weight as a ratio to the overall weight of the package. Informative reading, especially when you consider how unsafe a trailer can be if poorly set up. Go to the reference section.
cindalyn	posted 01-10-2008 07:43 PM ET (US) sternorama, I had planned on doing pretty much as you describe but I can only sit the trailer at 2 points because of the way the trailer is made. There is an angle that runs in the middle of the trailer, front to rear, that drops lower than the two outside rails of the trailer. I can get supports behind the axle and about two foot from the hitch. I plan to also use 2 jacks - one one each side for additional support. Jerry, the way this trailer is made it will be almost impossible NOT to have the axle square with the frame. The axle and springs are welded to angles about 4 ft. long on each side - like a big "H". That's why i'm concerned about binding the assembly if I don't move the weld assembly evenly relative to each of the side frames. I read numerous post about trailers on this site and they are very informative. It's the personal "I did it this way" that adds to my confidence. Thanks to all!
contender	posted 01-10-2008 09:58 PM ET (US) Mark your trailer before moving the axle, then you have a point of beginning, can move the axle same distance on each side of trailer, and move back to the correct spot if needed...good luck, PS best to work on trailer with the boat off the trailer, I have land lunched my 17 with no problem
contender	posted 01-10-2008 10:00 PM ET (US) PS another way to lighten the tongue weight is just move the boat back on the trailer and reset the post for the winch, or the lock for the float on type trailer...good luck
cindalyn	posted 01-10-2008 10:34 PM ET (US) Contender good point but I'd rather not add to the lengt of the trailer/boat combo.
bigjohn1	posted 01-11-2008 07:08 AM ET (US) cindalyn - In the procedure I described, I did not jack up the trailer off the ground. I park the trailer in a gravel lot so the tires and axle just slides with the gravel as you whack the rear of the tire(s). Without the weight of your boat on the trailer, it isn't all that difficult.
Casco Bay Outrage	posted 01-11-2008 09:38 AM ET (US) Ron - I reviewed the photos you sent me but can't quite see the area where the springs are attached to the frame. Any way you can take photos of the the area where the springs attach to the frame and the additional holes you have? Regards. CBO P.S. Great news on the lights!
Jefecinco	posted 01-11-2008 10:38 AM ET (US) If the boat is removed from the trailer you should be able to do the work at the ramp with the trailer hooked up to the tow vehicle. You should not need blocks nor need to jack up the trailer. If your trailer is equipped with brakes you may need to provide some adjustment to the hydraulic lines to move the axle. Spring hangers were not mentioned. Is your axle a torsion type? Fenders? I would clean the rails in the way of axle movement to reduce chances of binding. I would also spread a coat of chassis lubricant over the aforementioned area to facilitate movement. I would next secure two "comealongs" to the winch post with one each secured to an advantageous location on the axle assembly. The take up mechanism would be at the axle end of the comealong in order to be able to closely observe progress to avoid moving the axle too far forward. Then I would remove the mounting bolts. Next I would SLOWLY take up on the comealongs alternating sides as necessary to provide an even amount of movement on each side. A rubber mallet may be useful for fine tuning the forward movement and to maintain square. If you do not have comealongs you may be able to do the job with the trailer winch strap/cable. This would probably require a lot of moving around and checking of progress and it would possibly make it more difficult to maintain square. Use of a mooring line to make up a harness to provide for even pull on both sides of the axle could help. If you have a friend to provide a little help it will probably make the task go more quickly and easily. It should make the job a bit safer, too. IMO, the tires would simply roll on the parking area surface as no brakes would be applied. Sounds like fun. Butch
tomstin	posted 01-11-2008 03:35 PM ET (US) I went through this some time ago. I had a lenghly debate with a few folks on the proper tongue weight. I ended up calling the trailer manufacturer. As it was explained to me, the tongue weight should be 7 - 10% of the weight of the boat and the boat should not extend more than 6 inches beyond the bunkers. Properly position the boat on the trailer, then move the axle forward or back to get the tongue weight correct. As mentioned above, this is easiest with the boat off the trailer and make sure the axle is square to the tongue when you're done. It makes a world of difference loading, unloading and towing when you get it right! Good luck!
Chuck Tribolet	posted 01-11-2008 05:53 PM ET (US) If it's a bunk trailer, the transom must be supported by the bunks. It should not extend beyond the bunks. The transom is both the strongest and heaviest part of the boat. Chuck
kamie	posted 01-13-2008 10:43 AM ET (US) cindalyn, Launch the boat and you should be able to unbolt the assembly and roll it forward to the next set of holes. I have done the very same thing on the trailer under my 18, but never with the boat on the trailer.
cindalyn	posted 01-13-2008 01:05 PM ET (US) I did it! I jacked up the trailer and boat and put them on a really sturdy foundation of concrete blocks and wood. That was the easy part. I decided to do it this way because I have the boat in the garage, partially disassembled and partially cleaned for waxing. --- This tongue weight issue has been on my mind and I just wanted to get it done. I started out with over 300 lbs on the tongue. The boat, motor and trailer with gas and other accessories weigh about 2,000 lbs. so I was shooting for about 125 - 150 lb. tongue weight. Without even seeing the boat and trailer, the local boat dealer told me I should only have to move the axle about 3 inches? Based on this I moved the axle assembly from the 1st set of bolt holes to the 2nd set which was 6 1/4 inches. This brought the tongue weight down to about 240 lb. Still too heavy! I jacked up the trailer again, removed the tires so I could move the axle assembly under a low hanging lateral cross support and then moved the axle another 12 1/2" to the 4th set of bolt holes. Of course I had to cut some wires and the marker lights had to be removed because they were short of clearing by about 1/8". This brought the tongue weight down to about 90 lb. Too light! Next I moved the axle assembly to the 3rd set of bolt holes that I had skipped. I skipped them because the brackets that support the bunk boards interfered with the wheel axle. The 2 brackets had to be removed and reversed and drilled and lagged to the bunk boards. After adding ballast for fuel weight and returning the anchor, battery, seats, covers etc, that I had removed, I ended up with about 140 lbs. tongue weight according to a bathroom scale. That’s about 7 percent of the total gross weight which is within the recommended range. I moved the axle about 12 1/2 inches in total. I'm sure glad I did this at home rather than launching the boat and doing it at the landing which sounded like a really good idea. I needed more tools than I would have had at the landing (clamp, drift pins, sockets, wrenches, drill, etc.). LESSONS LEARNED: Glean as much information from this and other sights as you can but remember not all trailers are created equally. Study your trailer for anticipated problems then prepare for what you missed. Working with the boat off of the trailer would definitely be easier and safer but, if you don’t hit your target weight the first time - like me, you would have to launch and reload the boat several times. Anticipate possible interference with the cross members, lights, wiring, boat guides and fenders. You’ll probably need more different tools that you anticipated and possibly replacement hardware, (I got a little carried away with a T-bar and broke a bolt). Be certain the trailer is in the ‘loaded state’ before tightening the bolts. In other words, if you had jacked up your trailer and reattached suspended parts, the parts would be hanging on the top of any slotted holes. By putting the trailer in the loaded state the slotted holes are properly positioned and can then be tightened. Have fun, I’m retired and have no schedules to meet so I enjoyed doing this project but it did get more involved than I had anticipated. I have pictures but was unable to attach them this time.
jimh	posted 01-13-2008 02:13 PM ET (US) A more scientific method of precomputing the distance to move the axle is described in an article in the REFERENCE section by Jerry Townsend: Trailer Hitch Loading by Jerry Townsend http://continuouswave.com/whaler/reference/trailering/ trailerCalculations.html
Casco Bay Outrage	posted 01-13-2008 02:41 PM ET (US) Ron - Good for you!!!! You are making lots of progress! CBO
cindalyn	posted 01-13-2008 03:01 PM ET (US) jimh - I read and printed Jerry's article before I ever started this. Gotta admit, I just ain't that smart!
sternorama	posted 01-14-2008 06:16 PM ET (US) Glad it all worked out! I also have had the experience you mentioned where you end up using tools that you hadn't expected.