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Author Topic:   Samson Post Removal

prj posted 06-04-2008 11:59 AM ET (US)
I'm attempting to remove the samson post from my 1990 Outrage - 18/19 so I can install a bow mounted trolling motor on a custom fabricated mount.
As many know, the Marinium samson post is machine screwed into a threaded aluminum plate which is embedded into the fiberglass of the bow area. Over time, the stainless steel machine screws have undoubtedly bonded with the aluminum through corrosion due to a dissimilar metal reaction.
My attempts started with a several week soak in Liquid Wrench. My initial removal attempt used a #3 phillips bit in a long leveraged ratchet arrangement. The first screw I hit released fairly easily, so with this newfound confidence, I promptly turned the next phillips head to mush. Attempting to remove the final two was easy, knowing that I'd destroyed one already, so I galled the next two heads as well.
I then borrowed an impact driver, a tool which converts the impact of a hammer blow into rotation torque at the head. This did nothing for me other than punch a small divot into my samson post, partly in fear of really winding up and whacking the thing. I didn't want to patch a large fiberglass hammer hole as well.
My final option is to tow the boat to a machine shop and have the (3) stainless machine screws drilled out. Can any other recommendations be made prior to taking this action?

Buckda posted 06-04-2008 12:34 PM ET (US)
I had the same problem.
I ended up twisting off three of the four heads in my efforts, removed the fixture and dremeled the remaining stubs smooth with the gelcoat. Upon installing the new fixture (in my case, a bow pulpit), I drilled and tapped new holes in the aluminum backing plate.
Good luck!
Dave
george nagy posted 06-04-2008 12:37 PM ET (US)
I once remove one on my old outrage by drilling out the heads of the screws with a titanium drill bit. I then could not get the screw shanks out so I used the smallest holw saw I could find and without the centering bit installed I bored out through the aluminum embed plate.I wish I never reinstalled that thing it was aleways a real pain to secure multiple lines to.Oh yeah I used some sort of stainless molly bolts and sealant to reinstall it, it was/ is solid as a rock.
prj posted 06-04-2008 12:52 PM ET (US)
Good info guys, maybe I'll give a go at drilling out the screws myself before trailering the boat to a shop. Without the aid of a drill press, I imagine damaging the samson post is a likelihood, thats why I hesitate. I wonder if a shop would have a mobile drill press that they could align with each hole and lock in place for greater control...
Where might the dimensions of that embedded aluminum plate be found?
prj posted 06-09-2008 10:54 PM ET (US)
What I assume to be the embedded aluminum plate is ghosting up through the fiberglass and gelcoat to reveal its apparent size: Trapezoidal and about 5-7 inches abeam and 5-6 inches fore and aft. Its shaped to fit the bow shape.
towboater posted 06-10-2008 12:14 AM ET (US)
Chuck T turned me on to some stuff called ALUMILASTIC.
It pevents alum/ss metalurgy when you reassemble.
good luck.
mk
prj posted 08-06-2008 02:36 PM ET (US)
As a follow up to the successful removal of the Samson bit, please see the following article:
http://continuouswave.com/ubb/Forum3/HTML/015489.html
number9 posted 09-02-2008 04:25 AM ET (US)
FYI for the future removal of screws. A dab of valve grinding compound on your driver bit helps to prevent damage from it slipping. Many times you can break them loose by first turning in the tighten direction.
Blackduck posted 09-02-2008 04:45 PM ET (US)
After 20 years of salt water exposure, nothing, short on dynamite, was going to let me back out those 4 bolts. Drilling and taping was the only way to go. The salt water action "welds" the aluminum and stainless into one.
andygere posted 09-03-2008 01:40 AM ET (US)
Get a set of cobalt drill bits, and start with a small one, then oversize the hole until the bolt is drilled out. Go slow, and use some cutting oil or similar lubricant. Drilling out stainless bolts is a drag, but you can do it with a hand drill. Be sure to use a good center punch to mark the center of the screw head for drilling.
prj posted 09-18-2009 01:48 PM ET (US)
Find the actual dimensions of the aluminum backing plate for a sampson post on a circa 1986 Outrage-18 here:
http://continuouswave.com/ubb/Forum3/HTML/017420.html
Plotman posted 04-11-2011 09:51 PM ET (US)
I like the weld-a-nut-on way, but I have a TIG welder in the garage.
#1 Try the impact driver, but be sure to use valve grinding compound. (There is a good chance that the heads are actually pozi-drive and not phillips. Phillips heads were designed to cam out before you over-torqued a fastener, pozi will not cam out, but can use phillips.)
If you drill the heads off, BEFORE you grab the exposed threads with a vice grips, clean up the threads on the stud with a die, and thread 2 nuts of the appropriate size onto the exposed threads (presuming you have enough exposed stud to work with). Use two wrenched to jam them together, then put a wrench on the inner nut. Allows you to get a lot more leverage.
And when you put it back, use anti-seize compound.

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Author	Topic: Samson Post Removal
prj	posted 06-04-2008 11:59 AM ET (US) I'm attempting to remove the samson post from my 1990 Outrage - 18/19 so I can install a bow mounted trolling motor on a custom fabricated mount. As many know, the Marinium samson post is machine screwed into a threaded aluminum plate which is embedded into the fiberglass of the bow area. Over time, the stainless steel machine screws have undoubtedly bonded with the aluminum through corrosion due to a dissimilar metal reaction. My attempts started with a several week soak in Liquid Wrench. My initial removal attempt used a #3 phillips bit in a long leveraged ratchet arrangement. The first screw I hit released fairly easily, so with this newfound confidence, I promptly turned the next phillips head to mush. Attempting to remove the final two was easy, knowing that I'd destroyed one already, so I galled the next two heads as well. I then borrowed an impact driver, a tool which converts the impact of a hammer blow into rotation torque at the head. This did nothing for me other than punch a small divot into my samson post, partly in fear of really winding up and whacking the thing. I didn't want to patch a large fiberglass hammer hole as well. My final option is to tow the boat to a machine shop and have the (3) stainless machine screws drilled out. Can any other recommendations be made prior to taking this action?
Buckda	posted 06-04-2008 12:34 PM ET (US) I had the same problem. I ended up twisting off three of the four heads in my efforts, removed the fixture and dremeled the remaining stubs smooth with the gelcoat. Upon installing the new fixture (in my case, a bow pulpit), I drilled and tapped new holes in the aluminum backing plate. Good luck! Dave
george nagy	posted 06-04-2008 12:37 PM ET (US) I once remove one on my old outrage by drilling out the heads of the screws with a titanium drill bit. I then could not get the screw shanks out so I used the smallest holw saw I could find and without the centering bit installed I bored out through the aluminum embed plate.I wish I never reinstalled that thing it was aleways a real pain to secure multiple lines to.Oh yeah I used some sort of stainless molly bolts and sealant to reinstall it, it was/ is solid as a rock.
prj	posted 06-04-2008 12:52 PM ET (US) Good info guys, maybe I'll give a go at drilling out the screws myself before trailering the boat to a shop. Without the aid of a drill press, I imagine damaging the samson post is a likelihood, thats why I hesitate. I wonder if a shop would have a mobile drill press that they could align with each hole and lock in place for greater control... Where might the dimensions of that embedded aluminum plate be found?
prj	posted 06-09-2008 10:54 PM ET (US) What I assume to be the embedded aluminum plate is ghosting up through the fiberglass and gelcoat to reveal its apparent size: Trapezoidal and about 5-7 inches abeam and 5-6 inches fore and aft. Its shaped to fit the bow shape.
towboater	posted 06-10-2008 12:14 AM ET (US) Chuck T turned me on to some stuff called ALUMILASTIC. It pevents alum/ss metalurgy when you reassemble. good luck. mk
prj	posted 08-06-2008 02:36 PM ET (US) As a follow up to the successful removal of the Samson bit, please see the following article: http://continuouswave.com/ubb/Forum3/HTML/015489.html
number9	posted 09-02-2008 04:25 AM ET (US) FYI for the future removal of screws. A dab of valve grinding compound on your driver bit helps to prevent damage from it slipping. Many times you can break them loose by first turning in the tighten direction.
Blackduck	posted 09-02-2008 04:45 PM ET (US) After 20 years of salt water exposure, nothing, short on dynamite, was going to let me back out those 4 bolts. Drilling and taping was the only way to go. The salt water action "welds" the aluminum and stainless into one.
andygere	posted 09-03-2008 01:40 AM ET (US) Get a set of cobalt drill bits, and start with a small one, then oversize the hole until the bolt is drilled out. Go slow, and use some cutting oil or similar lubricant. Drilling out stainless bolts is a drag, but you can do it with a hand drill. Be sure to use a good center punch to mark the center of the screw head for drilling.
prj	posted 09-18-2009 01:48 PM ET (US) Find the actual dimensions of the aluminum backing plate for a sampson post on a circa 1986 Outrage-18 here: http://continuouswave.com/ubb/Forum3/HTML/017420.html
Plotman	posted 04-11-2011 09:51 PM ET (US) I like the weld-a-nut-on way, but I have a TIG welder in the garage. #1 Try the impact driver, but be sure to use valve grinding compound. (There is a good chance that the heads are actually pozi-drive and not phillips. Phillips heads were designed to cam out before you over-torqued a fastener, pozi will not cam out, but can use phillips.) If you drill the heads off, BEFORE you grab the exposed threads with a vice grips, clean up the threads on the stud with a die, and thread 2 nuts of the appropriate size onto the exposed threads (presuming you have enough exposed stud to work with). Use two wrenched to jam them together, then put a wrench on the inner nut. Allows you to get a lot more leverage. And when you put it back, use anti-seize compound.