Bilge Pump Setup - Moderated Discussion Areas

  ContinuousWave
  Whaler
  Moderated Discussion Areas
  ContinuousWave: Whaler Repairs/Mods
  Bilge Pump Setup

search | FAQ | profile | register | author help

Author Topic:   Bilge Pump Setup

Smithsm posted 06-24-2008 11:15 AM ET (US)
What is the best bilge pump setup for a 1988 Outrage 20? Sounds like the automatic ones only test for water every 3 minutes--not much help cleaning out a swamped boat if the timing is off. Whaler used a basic pump and separate switch, but I read about endless problems with the swithes. Perhaps the automatic [pumps] were not available then. So what is the best? My boat currently has none and I want to install one.
Tohsgib posted 06-24-2008 11:33 AM ET (US)
That is a problem with an automatic pump, BUT you can rig it to a switch and when the switch is turned on she will start pumping until water is gone. Then if you leave switch on it will cycle every few minutes like if just connected it to the battery, or turn it off till you want it to stay on standby.
sternorama posted 06-24-2008 11:55 AM ET (US)
Another "best" way is to include a cycle counter so that if the pump turns itself on eleventy times while you are away from her you would know.
Smithsm posted 06-24-2008 12:11 PM ET (US)
one of my goals is simplification. if I could just pull the plug and not have water get into my gas tank area I would. I boat in a salt water area. all electrical connections end up having problems - so the fewer the better. my experience is that every connection requires maintenance and ultimately trouble shooting and replacement. I plan to not run wires to the center console - but rather install an inline fuse, and connect directly to one of the two batteris located near the bilge area. I really want to keep this as simple as possible.
mfrymier posted 06-24-2008 03:00 PM ET (US)
In my Outrage 18 I use a Rule pump with a built in float switch -- this does not "cycle" based on time, but rather automatically turns on when enough water is present to trigger the float switch. I find this much more simple than the separate float switch set up. Mine is literally just wedged down in my bilge, so if I need to clean / service it, I pull it out through the bilge access hatch.
I have it connected to an "on-auto-off" Rule switch on my console. I generally utilize "auto", but can override in the case where you just need the thing on.
I've had it set up in my bilge for 3 years working without problems (except the time it was full of yellow lab hair, but that wasn't really the fault of the pump ;) )
good luck.
Smithsm posted 06-24-2008 04:23 PM ET (US)
mfrymier--After studying catalogues and thinking it through I have to agree your setup will be best for me. I don't want an electronic "checker" to see if there is water, I want a float--but don't have the space for a separate float given twin engines and all the control wires. What size did you get ? I was thinking 1100 based on the posts on this site
stumpypete posted 06-24-2008 04:24 PM ET (US)
Beware the float switch, definitely mount it with its little cage thing. Rookie lesson-learned #32: I also have a Rule with float switch, and am happy with it, but left the boat in a hurry with the pump sitting in the sump on my Nauset kinda wedged 'upright' with maybe a little lean to it. It was apparently tilted over just enough [to not work] as the boat was full of water when I got back the next weekend. Mounted it and it's fine.
mfrymier posted 06-24-2008 07:25 PM ET (US)
I believe mine is the 1100, or possibly the 1500 GPH. I can look tonight, but to be honest, either will get the job done on a boat that you can simply run 70% of the water out of after a swamping (assuming your engine is still operating of course). I tend to overbuy this stuff as the change in price is minimal compared to the change in "output" if you get my drift!
good luck
jimh posted 06-25-2008 09:22 AM ET (US)
I believe that on some of the automatic sensing pumps the control mechanism works on this principle:
--the motor will draw high current if it is spinning an impeller that is immersed in water;
--the motor will draw little current if it is spinning an impeller that is not immersed in water;
The control mechanism measures how much current is being drawn and deduces if there is water present. The system works like this:
--at periodic intervals the pump actuates and spins the motor;
--the motor runs and, if all goes correctly, the water level drops to the point where the impeller is not immersed;
--if the motor is running in a no-water condition, the control circuit stops the motor and resets the timer to an interval of several minutes;
--the cycle repeats.
If the automatic pump is in a dry sump, the motor just spins briefly every few minutes and shuts itself off.
The claim made for the automatic sensing pump is that there is no float switch to get stuck, and that the current drain from the motor starting up every few minutes to test for water presence is not so excessive that it will kill drain the battery in the short term. In the long term, the periodic pump current may eventually discharge the battery. Also, the electronics that operate the timers and monitor the current are consuming a small amount of current all the time.
Pumps which depend on a separate float switch don't run until the switch closes. No current is drawn until the float switch closes, so in a dry boat there is no drain on the battery at all and the system could function for months without running the battery down.
In either system the control circuit can be bypassed and the pump forced to run, or the current supply can be shut off entirely and the pump will never run.
Smithsm posted 06-25-2008 09:57 AM ET (US)
I believe there are TWO different types of AUTOMATIC Rules with different types of switch mechanisms. Both of these are different from the typical pump/seperate float switch mechanism.
1. RULE FULLY AUTOMATIC. tests for water on a periodic basis - like every two or three minutes. Draws a low level of electricity to monitor and test for water. NO mechanical float switch either internal or external.
2. RULE-MATE SERIES FULLY AUTOMATIC has an actual built in float switch. operates like the combo external float switch and pump except the smaller float switch is contained in the oval unit. this is on one I want as it should turn on immediatly if the boat is swamped.
Graphiterod posted 06-26-2008 07:13 PM ET (US)
I have a set-up similar to MFRYMIER, on an 18' Outrage. Performs as adverised. Only has a problem once. The pump burned out when the through hole fitting leaked and a constant stream of water kept the pump going for a week.
Wal-Mart has the best prices on Rule pumps, with internal float switches.
DWS posted 06-27-2008 06:52 PM ET (US)
I use a wash down pump hooked up to a switch on my consol the pump is demand style pump, Its mounted out side the boat on the port stern. and has a hose that extends down into the water for washdown purposes and swivels over the transome and down into the rigging tunnel to drain the boat of excess water and can even be put into the aft mounted bait tank to assist with draining. The boat is stored indoors so this set up is for when the boat is in use.
Smithsm posted 06-27-2008 08:48 PM ET (US)
for the life of me I can't figure out how folks get a standard round rule pump and seperate float switch to fit in the low section of the bilge area of an older outrage. I have many cables coming through the area and only seem to have room for a pump with an internal float switch. how do people do it ? is the switch mounted to the rear and the round pump to the front - and it then must sit against the wad of control cables. how it is done ?
Smithsm posted 06-28-2008 11:30 AM ET (US)
I just checked out Jack Mack's boat.
the pump and switch fit because the control lines are held up off the bottom via a special bracket attachment
Bulldog posted 06-28-2008 11:38 AM ET (US)
That Jack Mack is a pretty nice guy, he just neglected to offer you a beer, too early I guess!....Jack

Hop to:

Contact Us | RETURN to ContinuousWave Top Page

Powered by: Ultimate Bulletin Board, Freeware Version 2000
Purchase our Licensed Version- which adds many more features!
© Infopop Corporation (formerly Madrona Park, Inc.), 1998 - 2000.

Author	Topic: Bilge Pump Setup
Smithsm	posted 06-24-2008 11:15 AM ET (US) What is the best bilge pump setup for a 1988 Outrage 20? Sounds like the automatic ones only test for water every 3 minutes--not much help cleaning out a swamped boat if the timing is off. Whaler used a basic pump and separate switch, but I read about endless problems with the swithes. Perhaps the automatic [pumps] were not available then. So what is the best? My boat currently has none and I want to install one.
Tohsgib	posted 06-24-2008 11:33 AM ET (US) That is a problem with an automatic pump, BUT you can rig it to a switch and when the switch is turned on she will start pumping until water is gone. Then if you leave switch on it will cycle every few minutes like if just connected it to the battery, or turn it off till you want it to stay on standby.
sternorama	posted 06-24-2008 11:55 AM ET (US) Another "best" way is to include a cycle counter so that if the pump turns itself on eleventy times while you are away from her you would know.
Smithsm	posted 06-24-2008 12:11 PM ET (US) one of my goals is simplification. if I could just pull the plug and not have water get into my gas tank area I would. I boat in a salt water area. all electrical connections end up having problems - so the fewer the better. my experience is that every connection requires maintenance and ultimately trouble shooting and replacement. I plan to not run wires to the center console - but rather install an inline fuse, and connect directly to one of the two batteris located near the bilge area. I really want to keep this as simple as possible.
mfrymier	posted 06-24-2008 03:00 PM ET (US) In my Outrage 18 I use a Rule pump with a built in float switch -- this does not "cycle" based on time, but rather automatically turns on when enough water is present to trigger the float switch. I find this much more simple than the separate float switch set up. Mine is literally just wedged down in my bilge, so if I need to clean / service it, I pull it out through the bilge access hatch. I have it connected to an "on-auto-off" Rule switch on my console. I generally utilize "auto", but can override in the case where you just need the thing on. I've had it set up in my bilge for 3 years working without problems (except the time it was full of yellow lab hair, but that wasn't really the fault of the pump ;) ) good luck.
Smithsm	posted 06-24-2008 04:23 PM ET (US) mfrymier--After studying catalogues and thinking it through I have to agree your setup will be best for me. I don't want an electronic "checker" to see if there is water, I want a float--but don't have the space for a separate float given twin engines and all the control wires. What size did you get ? I was thinking 1100 based on the posts on this site
stumpypete	posted 06-24-2008 04:24 PM ET (US) Beware the float switch, definitely mount it with its little cage thing. Rookie lesson-learned #32: I also have a Rule with float switch, and am happy with it, but left the boat in a hurry with the pump sitting in the sump on my Nauset kinda wedged 'upright' with maybe a little lean to it. It was apparently tilted over just enough [to not work] as the boat was full of water when I got back the next weekend. Mounted it and it's fine.
mfrymier	posted 06-24-2008 07:25 PM ET (US) I believe mine is the 1100, or possibly the 1500 GPH. I can look tonight, but to be honest, either will get the job done on a boat that you can simply run 70% of the water out of after a swamping (assuming your engine is still operating of course). I tend to overbuy this stuff as the change in price is minimal compared to the change in "output" if you get my drift! good luck
jimh	posted 06-25-2008 09:22 AM ET (US) I believe that on some of the automatic sensing pumps the control mechanism works on this principle: --the motor will draw high current if it is spinning an impeller that is immersed in water; --the motor will draw little current if it is spinning an impeller that is not immersed in water; The control mechanism measures how much current is being drawn and deduces if there is water present. The system works like this: --at periodic intervals the pump actuates and spins the motor; --the motor runs and, if all goes correctly, the water level drops to the point where the impeller is not immersed; --if the motor is running in a no-water condition, the control circuit stops the motor and resets the timer to an interval of several minutes; --the cycle repeats. If the automatic pump is in a dry sump, the motor just spins briefly every few minutes and shuts itself off. The claim made for the automatic sensing pump is that there is no float switch to get stuck, and that the current drain from the motor starting up every few minutes to test for water presence is not so excessive that it will kill drain the battery in the short term. In the long term, the periodic pump current may eventually discharge the battery. Also, the electronics that operate the timers and monitor the current are consuming a small amount of current all the time. Pumps which depend on a separate float switch don't run until the switch closes. No current is drawn until the float switch closes, so in a dry boat there is no drain on the battery at all and the system could function for months without running the battery down. In either system the control circuit can be bypassed and the pump forced to run, or the current supply can be shut off entirely and the pump will never run.
Smithsm	posted 06-25-2008 09:57 AM ET (US) I believe there are TWO different types of AUTOMATIC Rules with different types of switch mechanisms. Both of these are different from the typical pump/seperate float switch mechanism. 1. RULE FULLY AUTOMATIC. tests for water on a periodic basis - like every two or three minutes. Draws a low level of electricity to monitor and test for water. NO mechanical float switch either internal or external. 2. RULE-MATE SERIES FULLY AUTOMATIC has an actual built in float switch. operates like the combo external float switch and pump except the smaller float switch is contained in the oval unit. this is on one I want as it should turn on immediatly if the boat is swamped.
Graphiterod	posted 06-26-2008 07:13 PM ET (US) I have a set-up similar to MFRYMIER, on an 18' Outrage. Performs as adverised. Only has a problem once. The pump burned out when the through hole fitting leaked and a constant stream of water kept the pump going for a week. Wal-Mart has the best prices on Rule pumps, with internal float switches.
DWS	posted 06-27-2008 06:52 PM ET (US) I use a wash down pump hooked up to a switch on my consol the pump is demand style pump, Its mounted out side the boat on the port stern. and has a hose that extends down into the water for washdown purposes and swivels over the transome and down into the rigging tunnel to drain the boat of excess water and can even be put into the aft mounted bait tank to assist with draining. The boat is stored indoors so this set up is for when the boat is in use.
Smithsm	posted 06-27-2008 08:48 PM ET (US) for the life of me I can't figure out how folks get a standard round rule pump and seperate float switch to fit in the low section of the bilge area of an older outrage. I have many cables coming through the area and only seem to have room for a pump with an internal float switch. how do people do it ? is the switch mounted to the rear and the round pump to the front - and it then must sit against the wad of control cables. how it is done ?
Smithsm	posted 06-28-2008 11:30 AM ET (US) I just checked out Jack Mack's boat. the pump and switch fit because the control lines are held up off the bottom via a special bracket attachment
Bulldog	posted 06-28-2008 11:38 AM ET (US) That Jack Mack is a pretty nice guy, he just neglected to offer you a beer, too early I guess!....Jack