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Author Topic:   VERADO Mounting Bolt Pattern

jimh posted 10-27-2008 10:05 PM ET (US)
What is the layout for the transom mounting bolt holes on a six-cylinder VERADO motor engine mount?
tmann45 posted 10-28-2008 06:22 AM ET (US)
They are the standard BIA mounting bolt pattern. Got a test Verado coming up? I'll have an empty transom soon if yours is still has an E-TEC on it. The 250 Verado bolt pattern would fit my transom perfectly.
L H G posted 10-28-2008 02:03 PM ET (US)
Jim - Now you're talking! A Gen II 250 Verado would be THE engine for your boat. Smoother power, quiet running and much better fuel economy for the way you cruise.
Buckda posted 10-28-2008 02:19 PM ET (US)
...if that's the way you're going JimH (finding a Merc dealer to let you test a demo and write up the results), then I would be fascinated and eager to read the review.
If it's not the direction you are headed in...maybe we should write Mercury and see if we can make it happen for a few weekends?
:)
Dave
Casco Bay Outrage posted 10-28-2008 03:15 PM ET (US)
Bravo!
I say test all the major brands. It will level the field, publish the facts and be very, very interesting to read!
glen e posted 10-28-2008 04:32 PM ET (US)
I don't think Jim asks for bolt patterns out of the blue...it's not one of the burning questions that is dealt with here day in and out...but who knows...But I find it a bit hard to beleive..if he is mounting on his boat it will require a new backbone wiring harness, batts, shifter, gauges, command modules, J boxes and if it's a 6 cyl, a new power steering system.
A bit much and most of the reason verados don't do a lot of repowers...
and a cost of about 10-12 hrs in labor or so...
L H G posted 10-28-2008 05:10 PM ET (US)
Glen - Almars Mercury Outboards in Delaware, is offering a Gen I 250XL Verado completely rigged and installed on the boat with all components you mentioned, for $16,750. That is the drive away price, including the zero sales tax in Delaware. Is that a good deal?
L H G posted 10-28-2008 05:11 PM ET (US)
I should have added that it is brand new, with 5 year warranty.
glen e posted 10-28-2008 05:19 PM ET (US)
that's a great deal, but I would want to have it rigged by a certified dealer that I trust....also needs an impeller change and compression test...
Peter posted 10-28-2008 05:58 PM ET (US)
Can a Verado mounted on the 2 ft Whaler Drive of a 22 Revenge be fully tilted up out of the water without cowling-transom interference?
jimh posted 10-28-2008 07:27 PM ET (US)
Let me quote myself from my article about the E-TEC 250 H.O. testing:
"A primary consideration in making these tests was the ease of installation of the new motor. It literally took only an hour or two to make the engine swap."
This should disarm those who think I am about to re-fit my boat with a VERADO six-cylinder just for a few hours of testing. I am afraid fitting a VERADO six-clyinder would be a much bigger project.
A further problem is the almost complete absence of any Mercury dealers who are qualified to install a VERADO in my area.
No, I just wanted to establish the bolt hole pattern needed for a VERADO six-cylinder. From what has been mentioned, I take it that the traditional BIA engine mounting hole pattern is used.
seabob4 posted 10-28-2008 08:11 PM ET (US)
Jim,
Standard BIA. Nothing special. Actually, rigging easier than all other outboards, as you have no cables or oil lines. Suzukies just about as easy, they also have a "clean power" harness. 300 etecs still have an oil line.
http://s285.photobucket.com/albums/ll41/seabob/?action=view& current=Verado1.jpg
seabob4 posted 10-28-2008 08:37 PM ET (US)
Jim,
All DTS installers must be tested and certified yearly by Merc, whether the install is an Opti or a Verado. This includes the helm end as well. This includes CAN1, CAN2, ECM, J-Boxes, Track-pad binnacle, clean power, accessory relay, everything. Ask Glen. Being in one of the most boating rich states in the country, I am quite surprised Michigan doesn't have more, rather than less.
SC Joe posted 10-28-2008 08:59 PM ET (US)
Worse than the time spent installing it Jim...what would happen if you {gasp} actually liked the Verado and found you preferred it??
;)
jimh posted 10-28-2008 10:03 PM ET (US)
Joe--As I have already mentioned, of all classic Boston Whaler boats, those with an enclosed transom and stern deck, such as my Boston Whaler REVENGE 22 W-T Whaler Drive, are the most suited for adaptation to powering with a six-cylinder VERADO motor. I say that because the enclosed stern deck provides an area in which the electro-hydraulic boost pump could be located out of the weather and away from sea water. The pump is mandatory to provide the power steering needed. Also, the enclosed rear deck can easily accommodate the large storage batteries needed to start and run the VERADO.
But re-rigging for a VERADO would require a complete overhaul of:
--the hydraulic steering
--the wiring harness, ignition switch, safety lanyard, and warning buzzer
--the engine shift and throttle controls
--the engine instrumentation.
The hydraulic steering would need a total refit. The VERADO six-cylinder comes with its own hydraulic actuator. The flow rate of my old helm pump might not be compatible. Certainly the hydraulic lines would not be the right length. All that would have to be changed.
The c.1992 OMC wiring harness would have to be removed. A new harness would be installed. I'd need to cut holes for the key switch and the safety lanyard switch. I'd have to install all the associated black boxes that go with the DTS controls someplace near the helm. I'd have to install a new warning horn. I'd have to install the atmospheric temperature sensor.
I'd have to remove my current shift and throttle controls and replace them with new DTS controls, and run the DTS harness to the stern.
I'd have to make a new dash panel to fit the new SmartCraft gauges. I'd have to run the wiring harnesses to the engine. I have to wire an interface between the SmartCraft and my NMEA-0183 GPSr.
Then, when the test was over, I have to take all that out and re-install all my old OMC rigging.
Let me quote myself, again with regard to the E-TEC test:
"A primary consideration in making these tests was the ease of installation of the new motor. It literally took only an hour or two to make the engine swap."
Jeez--I forgot: I would have to modify the electrical system of the boat to power the electro-hydraulic boost pump. I think it needs 60-ampere wiring.
erik selis posted 10-29-2008 02:48 AM ET (US)
You'll have to admit Jim, that the inquiry about the Verado mounting bolt pattern and the fact that the 250 HO E-Tec has been returned to the dealer, would get us all a bit excited here. I think everyone would love to see the results of a test with this Verado on your boat.
Maybe I missed it but with you trying to sell your old engine, are you now going to buy the 250 HO E-Tec? Are you still open for purchasing another brand? I would imagine that the E-Tec you tested would get sold rather quickly as it is a demo engine and a large discount would be given to potential buyers. Just curious.
Erik
Peter posted 10-29-2008 07:28 AM ET (US)
Now that some participants have mounted a virtual Verado I6 on Jim's naked transom, I'll ask again, can a Verado I6 mounted on the 2 ft Whaler Drive of a 22 Revenge be fully tilted up out of the water (gearcase clears water) dead-on center without cowling-transom interference? My guess is -- NO.
jimh posted 10-29-2008 08:30 AM ET (US)
I imagine that somewhere Mercury publishes an installer guide about the Verado that shows the dimensions of the space needed for the engine to be able to have a full range of tilt motion. It would be interesting to see the diagram that shows those dimensions. Maybe someone who has the document could scan it, or if the document is in electronic form, maybe it could be available electronically.
Recall, if you will, that the mounting system of the Verado allows for the tilted motor to rotate on the mount, so you could perhaps tuck the Verado in sideways on a boat where there was not quite enough room to tilt it forward on the keel centerline.
I don't think anyone has mounted a Verado six-cylinder on a Whaler Drive. If it has been done, we should gather some pictures of it. I would be happy to host them here for all to see.
tmann45 posted 10-29-2008 06:43 PM ET (US)
Jim, I emailed you two PDF files with most of the dimensions.
jamesmylesmcp posted 10-29-2008 09:31 PM ET (US)
Jim,I sent you a picture of twin 250's mounted on Whaler Drive.
jeffs22outrage posted 10-29-2008 10:21 PM ET (US)
From Brunswick's Commercial Products site.
http://www.brunswickcgp.com/images/stories/headers/guardian27.jpg
Peter posted 10-29-2008 10:47 PM ET (US)
The picture in the link shows a 27 Whaler Drive. The 27 Whaler Drive is different from the 22/25 Whaler Drive in that it extends the hull by 3 feet rather than the 2 feet of the 22/25 Whaler Drive. I have a 27 Whaler Drive and I know how much space I have between the top of the cowls and the transom when my Evinrudes are tilted up. My guess is that the top of the Verado cowl would probably come within 6 inches of the boat transom when tilted up dead-on center on the 27 Whaler Drive. Thus, my question regarding possible cowling-transom interference on a 22 Revenge WD.
jimh posted 10-29-2008 11:21 PM ET (US)
Here is a picture of the six-cylinder VERADO motors on a Whaler Drive. It looks like a 27-foot Whaler hull.

jimh posted 10-29-2008 11:31 PM ET (US)
The PDF documents (mentioned above) did not really show the tilt space required. I am looking for some other documents which will. Thanks for the email and the link.
number9 posted 10-30-2008 01:25 AM ET (US)
These links should be to PDF of drawings.
http://www.brunswickmarineemea.com/filereader/file/pdf/7/enen/outboard/2005/verado/892982_1.pdf
http://www.brunswickmarineemea.com/filereader/file/pdf/7/enen/outboard/2005/verado/892982_2.pdf
http://www.brunswickmarineemea.com/filereader/file/pdf/7/enen/outboard/2005/verado/892982_3.pdf
number9 posted 10-30-2008 02:29 AM ET (US)
You'll have to copy and past the links. Checked them out and they do work. Interesting, last link gives "running weight" which for a 25" is 688 lbs. verses Mercury's U.S. brochure that just says 635 lbs. which is the 20" without steering cylinder and gear lube. It's a shame they don't make this info readily available for users of their products here.
The Mercury Worldwide/European download area has drawings and operation manuals available for Mercury OBs pretty far back.
Maybe those dimensions are what you're looking for and will help.
Ya'll take care.
number9 posted 10-30-2008 05:20 AM ET (US)
WRONG LINKS and WEIGHT INFO
Sorry didn't realize the 200 hp was available in both displacements. Here are the link to the L4 drawings. The 200 isn't called out on the drawings yet since it is new.
http://www.brunswickmarineemea.com/filereader/file/pdf/7/enen/outboard/2007/verado/07_896574_1.pdf
http://www.brunswickmarineemea.com/filereader/file/pdf/7/enen/outboard/2007/verado/07_896574_2.pdf
http://www.brunswickmarineemea.com/filereader/file/pdf/7/enen/outboard/2007/verado/07_l4_cg.pdf
http://www.brunswickmarineemea.com/download/preparesearch?mod=7&lang=EN
tmann45 posted 10-30-2008 06:15 AM ET (US)
Between the mounting transom and the hull transom (top of the cowling when tilted fully up) is shown to be 27.375" for clearance in the PDF. Is that not the dimesion you are asking about?
jimh posted 10-30-2008 08:31 AM ET (US)
The clearance needed when a six-cylinder VERADO motor is tilted forward is 27.5-inches, and it is shown in drawing 07_892982_1.pdf (which I did not receive in any emails but is available from the web site mentioned above).
Now the question becomes, "How much room is there on a 22-foot or 25-foot Boston Whaler with Whaler Drive?"
Tom W Clark posted 10-30-2008 09:29 AM ET (US)
Yes, this is the drawing:
http://www.brunswickmarineemea.com/filereader/file/pdf/7/enen/outboard/ 2005/verado/892982_1.pdf
The clearance is 27-3/8" measured perpendicular to the transom not horizontally.
Furthermore, this distance is to the top of the motor's cowling. In the case of the Whaler 20,22 or 25 with Whaler Drive, the point of interference is much lower and because of the curved profile of the Verado's cowling, there will be much more room.
I also presume that the Verados can be programmed to limit the maximum tilt even if there were any interference.
I do not think there would be any problem mounting an six cylinder Verdado on any Whaler Drive equipped Whaler.
glen e posted 10-30-2008 09:38 AM ET (US)
"I also presume that the Verados can be programmed to limit the maximum tilt even if there were any interference."
correct....

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Author	Topic: VERADO Mounting Bolt Pattern
jimh	posted 10-27-2008 10:05 PM ET (US) What is the layout for the transom mounting bolt holes on a six-cylinder VERADO motor engine mount?
tmann45	posted 10-28-2008 06:22 AM ET (US) They are the standard BIA mounting bolt pattern. Got a test Verado coming up? I'll have an empty transom soon if yours is still has an E-TEC on it. The 250 Verado bolt pattern would fit my transom perfectly.
L H G	posted 10-28-2008 02:03 PM ET (US) Jim - Now you're talking! A Gen II 250 Verado would be THE engine for your boat. Smoother power, quiet running and much better fuel economy for the way you cruise.
Buckda	posted 10-28-2008 02:19 PM ET (US) ...if that's the way you're going JimH (finding a Merc dealer to let you test a demo and write up the results), then I would be fascinated and eager to read the review. If it's not the direction you are headed in...maybe we should write Mercury and see if we can make it happen for a few weekends? :) Dave
Casco Bay Outrage	posted 10-28-2008 03:15 PM ET (US) Bravo! I say test all the major brands. It will level the field, publish the facts and be very, very interesting to read!
glen e	posted 10-28-2008 04:32 PM ET (US) I don't think Jim asks for bolt patterns out of the blue...it's not one of the burning questions that is dealt with here day in and out...but who knows...But I find it a bit hard to beleive..if he is mounting on his boat it will require a new backbone wiring harness, batts, shifter, gauges, command modules, J boxes and if it's a 6 cyl, a new power steering system. A bit much and most of the reason verados don't do a lot of repowers... and a cost of about 10-12 hrs in labor or so...
L H G	posted 10-28-2008 05:10 PM ET (US) Glen - Almars Mercury Outboards in Delaware, is offering a Gen I 250XL Verado completely rigged and installed on the boat with all components you mentioned, for $16,750. That is the drive away price, including the zero sales tax in Delaware. Is that a good deal?
L H G	posted 10-28-2008 05:11 PM ET (US) I should have added that it is brand new, with 5 year warranty.
glen e	posted 10-28-2008 05:19 PM ET (US) that's a great deal, but I would want to have it rigged by a certified dealer that I trust....also needs an impeller change and compression test...
Peter	posted 10-28-2008 05:58 PM ET (US) Can a Verado mounted on the 2 ft Whaler Drive of a 22 Revenge be fully tilted up out of the water without cowling-transom interference?
jimh	posted 10-28-2008 07:27 PM ET (US) Let me quote myself from my article about the E-TEC 250 H.O. testing: "A primary consideration in making these tests was the ease of installation of the new motor. It literally took only an hour or two to make the engine swap." This should disarm those who think I am about to re-fit my boat with a VERADO six-cylinder just for a few hours of testing. I am afraid fitting a VERADO six-clyinder would be a much bigger project. A further problem is the almost complete absence of any Mercury dealers who are qualified to install a VERADO in my area. No, I just wanted to establish the bolt hole pattern needed for a VERADO six-cylinder. From what has been mentioned, I take it that the traditional BIA engine mounting hole pattern is used.
seabob4	posted 10-28-2008 08:11 PM ET (US) Jim, Standard BIA. Nothing special. Actually, rigging easier than all other outboards, as you have no cables or oil lines. Suzukies just about as easy, they also have a "clean power" harness. 300 etecs still have an oil line. http://s285.photobucket.com/albums/ll41/seabob/?action=view& current=Verado1.jpg
seabob4	posted 10-28-2008 08:37 PM ET (US) Jim, All DTS installers must be tested and certified yearly by Merc, whether the install is an Opti or a Verado. This includes the helm end as well. This includes CAN1, CAN2, ECM, J-Boxes, Track-pad binnacle, clean power, accessory relay, everything. Ask Glen. Being in one of the most boating rich states in the country, I am quite surprised Michigan doesn't have more, rather than less.
SC Joe	posted 10-28-2008 08:59 PM ET (US) Worse than the time spent installing it Jim...what would happen if you {gasp} actually liked the Verado and found you preferred it?? ;)
jimh	posted 10-28-2008 10:03 PM ET (US) Joe--As I have already mentioned, of all classic Boston Whaler boats, those with an enclosed transom and stern deck, such as my Boston Whaler REVENGE 22 W-T Whaler Drive, are the most suited for adaptation to powering with a six-cylinder VERADO motor. I say that because the enclosed stern deck provides an area in which the electro-hydraulic boost pump could be located out of the weather and away from sea water. The pump is mandatory to provide the power steering needed. Also, the enclosed rear deck can easily accommodate the large storage batteries needed to start and run the VERADO. But re-rigging for a VERADO would require a complete overhaul of: --the hydraulic steering --the wiring harness, ignition switch, safety lanyard, and warning buzzer --the engine shift and throttle controls --the engine instrumentation. The hydraulic steering would need a total refit. The VERADO six-cylinder comes with its own hydraulic actuator. The flow rate of my old helm pump might not be compatible. Certainly the hydraulic lines would not be the right length. All that would have to be changed. The c.1992 OMC wiring harness would have to be removed. A new harness would be installed. I'd need to cut holes for the key switch and the safety lanyard switch. I'd have to install all the associated black boxes that go with the DTS controls someplace near the helm. I'd have to install a new warning horn. I'd have to install the atmospheric temperature sensor. I'd have to remove my current shift and throttle controls and replace them with new DTS controls, and run the DTS harness to the stern. I'd have to make a new dash panel to fit the new SmartCraft gauges. I'd have to run the wiring harnesses to the engine. I have to wire an interface between the SmartCraft and my NMEA-0183 GPSr. Then, when the test was over, I have to take all that out and re-install all my old OMC rigging. Let me quote myself, again with regard to the E-TEC test: "A primary consideration in making these tests was the ease of installation of the new motor. It literally took only an hour or two to make the engine swap." Jeez--I forgot: I would have to modify the electrical system of the boat to power the electro-hydraulic boost pump. I think it needs 60-ampere wiring.
erik selis	posted 10-29-2008 02:48 AM ET (US) You'll have to admit Jim, that the inquiry about the Verado mounting bolt pattern and the fact that the 250 HO E-Tec has been returned to the dealer, would get us all a bit excited here. I think everyone would love to see the results of a test with this Verado on your boat. Maybe I missed it but with you trying to sell your old engine, are you now going to buy the 250 HO E-Tec? Are you still open for purchasing another brand? I would imagine that the E-Tec you tested would get sold rather quickly as it is a demo engine and a large discount would be given to potential buyers. Just curious. Erik
Peter	posted 10-29-2008 07:28 AM ET (US) Now that some participants have mounted a virtual Verado I6 on Jim's naked transom, I'll ask again, can a Verado I6 mounted on the 2 ft Whaler Drive of a 22 Revenge be fully tilted up out of the water (gearcase clears water) dead-on center without cowling-transom interference? My guess is -- NO.
jimh	posted 10-29-2008 08:30 AM ET (US) I imagine that somewhere Mercury publishes an installer guide about the Verado that shows the dimensions of the space needed for the engine to be able to have a full range of tilt motion. It would be interesting to see the diagram that shows those dimensions. Maybe someone who has the document could scan it, or if the document is in electronic form, maybe it could be available electronically. Recall, if you will, that the mounting system of the Verado allows for the tilted motor to rotate on the mount, so you could perhaps tuck the Verado in sideways on a boat where there was not quite enough room to tilt it forward on the keel centerline. I don't think anyone has mounted a Verado six-cylinder on a Whaler Drive. If it has been done, we should gather some pictures of it. I would be happy to host them here for all to see.
tmann45	posted 10-29-2008 06:43 PM ET (US) Jim, I emailed you two PDF files with most of the dimensions.
jamesmylesmcp	posted 10-29-2008 09:31 PM ET (US) Jim,I sent you a picture of twin 250's mounted on Whaler Drive.
jeffs22outrage	posted 10-29-2008 10:21 PM ET (US) From Brunswick's Commercial Products site. http://www.brunswickcgp.com/images/stories/headers/guardian27.jpg
Peter	posted 10-29-2008 10:47 PM ET (US) The picture in the link shows a 27 Whaler Drive. The 27 Whaler Drive is different from the 22/25 Whaler Drive in that it extends the hull by 3 feet rather than the 2 feet of the 22/25 Whaler Drive. I have a 27 Whaler Drive and I know how much space I have between the top of the cowls and the transom when my Evinrudes are tilted up. My guess is that the top of the Verado cowl would probably come within 6 inches of the boat transom when tilted up dead-on center on the 27 Whaler Drive. Thus, my question regarding possible cowling-transom interference on a 22 Revenge WD.
jimh	posted 10-29-2008 11:21 PM ET (US) Here is a picture of the six-cylinder VERADO motors on a Whaler Drive. It looks like a 27-foot Whaler hull.
jimh	posted 10-29-2008 11:31 PM ET (US) The PDF documents (mentioned above) did not really show the tilt space required. I am looking for some other documents which will. Thanks for the email and the link.
number9	posted 10-30-2008 01:25 AM ET (US) These links should be to PDF of drawings. http://www.brunswickmarineemea.com/filereader/file/pdf/7/enen/outboard/2005/verado/892982_1.pdf http://www.brunswickmarineemea.com/filereader/file/pdf/7/enen/outboard/2005/verado/892982_2.pdf http://www.brunswickmarineemea.com/filereader/file/pdf/7/enen/outboard/2005/verado/892982_3.pdf
number9	posted 10-30-2008 02:29 AM ET (US) You'll have to copy and past the links. Checked them out and they do work. Interesting, last link gives "running weight" which for a 25" is 688 lbs. verses Mercury's U.S. brochure that just says 635 lbs. which is the 20" without steering cylinder and gear lube. It's a shame they don't make this info readily available for users of their products here. The Mercury Worldwide/European download area has drawings and operation manuals available for Mercury OBs pretty far back. Maybe those dimensions are what you're looking for and will help. Ya'll take care.
number9	posted 10-30-2008 05:20 AM ET (US) WRONG LINKS and WEIGHT INFO Sorry didn't realize the 200 hp was available in both displacements. Here are the link to the L4 drawings. The 200 isn't called out on the drawings yet since it is new. http://www.brunswickmarineemea.com/filereader/file/pdf/7/enen/outboard/2007/verado/07_896574_1.pdf http://www.brunswickmarineemea.com/filereader/file/pdf/7/enen/outboard/2007/verado/07_896574_2.pdf http://www.brunswickmarineemea.com/filereader/file/pdf/7/enen/outboard/2007/verado/07_l4_cg.pdf http://www.brunswickmarineemea.com/download/preparesearch?mod=7&lang=EN
tmann45	posted 10-30-2008 06:15 AM ET (US) Between the mounting transom and the hull transom (top of the cowling when tilted fully up) is shown to be 27.375" for clearance in the PDF. Is that not the dimesion you are asking about?
jimh	posted 10-30-2008 08:31 AM ET (US) The clearance needed when a six-cylinder VERADO motor is tilted forward is 27.5-inches, and it is shown in drawing 07_892982_1.pdf (which I did not receive in any emails but is available from the web site mentioned above). Now the question becomes, "How much room is there on a 22-foot or 25-foot Boston Whaler with Whaler Drive?"
Tom W Clark	posted 10-30-2008 09:29 AM ET (US) Yes, this is the drawing: http://www.brunswickmarineemea.com/filereader/file/pdf/7/enen/outboard/ 2005/verado/892982_1.pdf The clearance is 27-3/8" measured perpendicular to the transom not horizontally. Furthermore, this distance is to the top of the motor's cowling. In the case of the Whaler 20,22 or 25 with Whaler Drive, the point of interference is much lower and because of the curved profile of the Verado's cowling, there will be much more room. I also presume that the Verados can be programmed to limit the maximum tilt even if there were any interference. I do not think there would be any problem mounting an six cylinder Verdado on any Whaler Drive equipped Whaler.
glen e	posted 10-30-2008 09:38 AM ET (US) "I also presume that the Verados can be programmed to limit the maximum tilt even if there were any interference." correct....