2003 Johnson 175-HP: No Throttle Advance in Reverse

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Author Topic:   2003 Johnson 175-HP: No Throttle Advance in Reverse

ronniet posted 03-03-2009 02:25 PM ET (US)
This my first post, so hello! I seem to be having some trouble with my 2003 [Johnson] 175, which was a replacement engine. The dealer did the swap. The engine runs fine, but, when [I] put [the remote shift and throttle lever] in reverse [the engine] will engage, but that is it. [The remote throttle and shift] will not let me give [the Johnson 175 engine] more throtle. [T]he shifter has more room to move but no real increase in [engine speed]. [Too] much [of something] and [the 175 Johnson engine] stalls. Any suggestions would really help. [I]f [the cause of the problem] could be the linkage, what is my next move? Thanks :}
A2J15Sport posted 03-03-2009 02:32 PM ET (US)
What shifter? OMC or Morse?
Tohsgib posted 03-03-2009 02:34 PM ET (US)
Should be an easy fix, usually the shifter or throttle cable is misadjusted or frozen.
ronniet posted 03-03-2009 02:42 PM ET (US)
I believe it is [OMC]. [N]ot 100% sure. If it were the original with the engine, [I] am not sure, either. I store the boat a few miles from me. [I]'ll check tomorrow!
A2J15Sport posted 03-03-2009 02:49 PM ET (US)
A typical OMC binnacle mount has the key switch in the control itself.
Typical Morse controls have a seperate key switch.
That may help in ID'ing the control.
As stated, typically, it's a cable issue. Check the engine end first, it's the easiest to access.
ronniet posted 03-03-2009 02:53 PM ET (US)
I know that answer! There is a seperate key mounted on the console!
A2J15Sport posted 03-03-2009 03:05 PM ET (US)
Probably a Morse. as stated, check the engine end as you have someone move the throtttle/gear lever. See what moves and what doesn't.
It's pretty simple, you'll see what works and does not.
If all looks OK on the engine end, it's time to look at the control itself. Most times, it's a bad cable, OR, bad bushings, loose connections in the control.
ronniet posted 03-03-2009 04:48 PM ET (US)
[I] will make sure tomorrow of the type. [I] will also take a look at the unseen part of the throttle and see if there is adjustment or indication of something a miss. You say to look at the linkage movement in the engine. [I] have done this, [I] moved it back and forth thru forward and reverse to compare the amount of movement. In reverse the linkage lever stops at a certain distance but the shift leaver still has more travel in it, [I] would say about half its range of motion. [M]ore to the mystery. [T]hanks sport and gib.
elaelap posted 03-03-2009 04:52 PM ET (US)
That's a potentially serious safety issue. If the dealer did the swap last year, I'd get it back to him/her for the repair. You shouldn't be charged anything.
Tony
ronniet posted 03-03-2009 05:19 PM ET (US)
[T]ony--[I] agree 100%! [I] put in [P]lum [I]sland, [N]ewburyport [Massachusetts] at times and [conditions are] pretty hairy. [T]he [M]errimac river is very crazy place. [T]he water and the people! [I] willl not be going this year until [the reverse throttle problem is] fixed. [I]f [the repair is] an adjustment [I] will fix it. [I]f [something is] broken then it will be going back to Don's Marine about 60 miles from me. [I] do have some reverse just no giddy-up! Thanks
Peter posted 03-04-2009 08:12 AM ET (US)
"A typical OMC binnacle mount has the key switch in the control itself."
The OMC binnacle mount control came both ways, with and without the integral key switch. My first 1987 18 Outrage had the OMC binnacle mount with integral key switch. My second 1987 18 Outrage has the OMC binnacle mount control without key switch. The key switch is separate. How it came depends on who did the rigging and what they had in their parts inventory at the time.
Tohsgib posted 03-04-2009 11:10 AM ET (US)
True, they came both ways and why I don't know. If you buy it without the integrated keyswitch then you have to mount the keyswitch and the safety horn in the console. The other way it is all inside, just plug and play.
A2J15Sport posted 03-04-2009 11:51 AM ET (US)
True enough. They did come both ways (key in, key seperate). "Key in" was far more popular.
Either way, the OMC controls are CLEARLY identified with the OMC logo in more than one place.
I typically find [the cause of problems like the one described in this thread] to be one of two things.
Binding: due to worn bushings and or misalignment of guide pins. There is more than one sliding pin that can work loose and bind things up.
Loose or missing bolts or fasteners within the control head.
The good news is that both Morse and OMC controls have parts available. I've rebushed both types. It's a bit tedious but well worth the effort.
seahorse posted 03-04-2009 11:16 PM ET (US)
If this is the binnacle control with the rectangular rubber covered "neutral button" on top, then it is possible that the shift cable end is fastened in the outer hole of the control and not the inner hole where it is supposed to be.
The outer hole gives too much travel to the shift cable and causes a binding condition, not allowing the throttle arm to advance the throttle cable.
jimh posted 03-04-2009 11:37 PM ET (US)
I am very impressed with the quality and specificity of the advice proffered here. A big thank you to all who offered advice on this. Let's see if we have a remedy.
ronniet posted 03-05-2009 11:40 AM ET (US)
I checked the remote throttle this mornning,I could only find out a few facts.The remote throttle make is OMC.There were no visible adjustments and every thing seemed visibly fine.I mentioned earlier in this post that I did the best I could to see the movement of the remote throttle cables in the engine.When placed in revers there is travel of the linkage,also there is actuation of an unknown part coming from under the fly wheel housing Im guessing throttle related.the rhe remote throttle cables looked in good condition with no visible signs of a problem.No kinks,dents or flat spots.
ChiTown Cetacean posted 03-05-2009 10:44 PM ET (US)
I would bet that your throttle and shift cables and/or linkages are misadjusted at the outboard, not at the remote controls. I was having problems with reverse on my 1998 Johnson 150 Oceanrunner, and thought it was a lower unit problem.
Luckily, I figured out the misadjustment and also found a bent "shift lever assembly" on the motor which was causing all kinds of problems. This part is only made out of stamped 1/8 inch thick sheet metal(at least it is on the 150) and once it gets bent it won't hold its shape anymore even if you bend it back to spec. It looks stronger than it is, but believe me. As a result, all your other adjustments will either be screwed up, or get screwed up after a few shifts.
The Clymer Evinrude/Johnson 85-300 HP manual does a reasonably good job of explaining the adjustment process. But I agree your dealer should take care of this for you gratis.
Good luck,
Tony

ronniet posted 03-06-2009 08:03 AM ET (US)
I agree Tony.The OMC remote shift does not seem to be the culprit.There is going to be decent weather today,and my buddy is free,I will have a better look at the 03 Johnson and the shift linkage.Thanks Ron
ronniet posted 03-06-2009 08:53 AM ET (US)
Seloc manuals for the 03 Johnson are plentiful,Clymer manuals not so!I would geuss by the availability difference that Clymer is the better manual? some direction would be appretiated.Thanks Ron
Tohsgib posted 03-06-2009 11:28 AM ET (US)
Either is fine. Seloc is a good manual.
ChiTown Cetacean posted 03-10-2009 12:02 AM ET (US)
You should be able to find the Clymer manual (or the Seloc) for sale on eBay.
ChiTown Cetacean posted 03-10-2009 12:03 AM ET (US)
You should be able to find the Clymer manual (or the Seloc) for sale on eBay.
johnneary posted 03-10-2009 04:03 PM ET (US)
iI had the same problem. turned out to be worn bushings in the control side of thing! that lever under the fly wheel is your timing advance. make sure all yor scews and plates are tight in your remote! mine is the side mount but the same principal.
johnneary posted 03-10-2009 04:13 PM ET (US)
do a google search i was able to obtain a microtieche type print out for my control w/ all related parts and their part#'s > it cost me 14.00 to fix it.
ronniet posted 03-11-2009 11:41 AM ET (US)
I'm not ruling out that its the remote shift,The only thing is I can see that there is alot of travel of the 03 johnson linkage when engaged in reverse,perhaps there should be more travel than there is? When i compair forward to reverse there is a small amount of difference in the timming advance actuation,it doesn't move as far as in forward! Thanks Ron
johnneary posted 03-11-2009 02:08 PM ET (US)
Disconnect the throttle put the remote in reverse and throttle it up by hand. if it throttles up you will know how much travel you are looking for and proof its the remote or cable.
ronniet posted 03-12-2009 06:54 PM ET (US)
Sounds like my next step,first i will remove the cover of the shifter and check the bushings and such.I,m just waiting on some weather here!Thanks Ron.
ronniet posted 03-27-2009 07:19 AM ET (US)
Bringing closure to this subject for"No throttle adv...well it turns out the problem was not related to the linkage at all,3 0f the 6 carbs on my 03 Johnson 175 were flooding and dumping fuel at low rpm,hence the lack of throttle response.A rebuild of all the carbs solved the problem.I would like to thank everyone who contributed to this topic.If it was possible,there's a Cod fillet in my freezer for ya! Ron

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Author	Topic: 2003 Johnson 175-HP: No Throttle Advance in Reverse
ronniet	posted 03-03-2009 02:25 PM ET (US) This my first post, so hello! I seem to be having some trouble with my 2003 [Johnson] 175, which was a replacement engine. The dealer did the swap. The engine runs fine, but, when [I] put [the remote shift and throttle lever] in reverse [the engine] will engage, but that is it. [The remote throttle and shift] will not let me give [the Johnson 175 engine] more throtle. [T]he shifter has more room to move but no real increase in [engine speed]. [Too] much [of something] and [the 175 Johnson engine] stalls. Any suggestions would really help. [I]f [the cause of the problem] could be the linkage, what is my next move? Thanks :}
A2J15Sport	posted 03-03-2009 02:32 PM ET (US) What shifter? OMC or Morse?
Tohsgib	posted 03-03-2009 02:34 PM ET (US) Should be an easy fix, usually the shifter or throttle cable is misadjusted or frozen.
ronniet	posted 03-03-2009 02:42 PM ET (US) I believe it is [OMC]. [N]ot 100% sure. If it were the original with the engine, [I] am not sure, either. I store the boat a few miles from me. [I]'ll check tomorrow!
A2J15Sport	posted 03-03-2009 02:49 PM ET (US) A typical OMC binnacle mount has the key switch in the control itself. Typical Morse controls have a seperate key switch. That may help in ID'ing the control. As stated, typically, it's a cable issue. Check the engine end first, it's the easiest to access.
ronniet	posted 03-03-2009 02:53 PM ET (US) I know that answer! There is a seperate key mounted on the console!
A2J15Sport	posted 03-03-2009 03:05 PM ET (US) Probably a Morse. as stated, check the engine end as you have someone move the throtttle/gear lever. See what moves and what doesn't. It's pretty simple, you'll see what works and does not. If all looks OK on the engine end, it's time to look at the control itself. Most times, it's a bad cable, OR, bad bushings, loose connections in the control.
ronniet	posted 03-03-2009 04:48 PM ET (US) [I] will make sure tomorrow of the type. [I] will also take a look at the unseen part of the throttle and see if there is adjustment or indication of something a miss. You say to look at the linkage movement in the engine. [I] have done this, [I] moved it back and forth thru forward and reverse to compare the amount of movement. In reverse the linkage lever stops at a certain distance but the shift leaver still has more travel in it, [I] would say about half its range of motion. [M]ore to the mystery. [T]hanks sport and gib.
elaelap	posted 03-03-2009 04:52 PM ET (US) That's a potentially serious safety issue. If the dealer did the swap last year, I'd get it back to him/her for the repair. You shouldn't be charged anything. Tony
ronniet	posted 03-03-2009 05:19 PM ET (US) [T]ony--[I] agree 100%! [I] put in [P]lum [I]sland, [N]ewburyport [Massachusetts] at times and [conditions are] pretty hairy. [T]he [M]errimac river is very crazy place. [T]he water and the people! [I] willl not be going this year until [the reverse throttle problem is] fixed. [I]f [the repair is] an adjustment [I] will fix it. [I]f [something is] broken then it will be going back to Don's Marine about 60 miles from me. [I] do have some reverse just no giddy-up! Thanks
Peter	posted 03-04-2009 08:12 AM ET (US) "A typical OMC binnacle mount has the key switch in the control itself." The OMC binnacle mount control came both ways, with and without the integral key switch. My first 1987 18 Outrage had the OMC binnacle mount with integral key switch. My second 1987 18 Outrage has the OMC binnacle mount control without key switch. The key switch is separate. How it came depends on who did the rigging and what they had in their parts inventory at the time.
Tohsgib	posted 03-04-2009 11:10 AM ET (US) True, they came both ways and why I don't know. If you buy it without the integrated keyswitch then you have to mount the keyswitch and the safety horn in the console. The other way it is all inside, just plug and play.
A2J15Sport	posted 03-04-2009 11:51 AM ET (US) True enough. They did come both ways (key in, key seperate). "Key in" was far more popular. Either way, the OMC controls are CLEARLY identified with the OMC logo in more than one place. I typically find [the cause of problems like the one described in this thread] to be one of two things. Binding: due to worn bushings and or misalignment of guide pins. There is more than one sliding pin that can work loose and bind things up. Loose or missing bolts or fasteners within the control head. The good news is that both Morse and OMC controls have parts available. I've rebushed both types. It's a bit tedious but well worth the effort.
seahorse	posted 03-04-2009 11:16 PM ET (US) If this is the binnacle control with the rectangular rubber covered "neutral button" on top, then it is possible that the shift cable end is fastened in the outer hole of the control and not the inner hole where it is supposed to be. The outer hole gives too much travel to the shift cable and causes a binding condition, not allowing the throttle arm to advance the throttle cable.
jimh	posted 03-04-2009 11:37 PM ET (US) I am very impressed with the quality and specificity of the advice proffered here. A big thank you to all who offered advice on this. Let's see if we have a remedy.
ronniet	posted 03-05-2009 11:40 AM ET (US) I checked the remote throttle this mornning,I could only find out a few facts.The remote throttle make is OMC.There were no visible adjustments and every thing seemed visibly fine.I mentioned earlier in this post that I did the best I could to see the movement of the remote throttle cables in the engine.When placed in revers there is travel of the linkage,also there is actuation of an unknown part coming from under the fly wheel housing Im guessing throttle related.the rhe remote throttle cables looked in good condition with no visible signs of a problem.No kinks,dents or flat spots.
ChiTown Cetacean	posted 03-05-2009 10:44 PM ET (US) I would bet that your throttle and shift cables and/or linkages are misadjusted at the outboard, not at the remote controls. I was having problems with reverse on my 1998 Johnson 150 Oceanrunner, and thought it was a lower unit problem. Luckily, I figured out the misadjustment and also found a bent "shift lever assembly" on the motor which was causing all kinds of problems. This part is only made out of stamped 1/8 inch thick sheet metal(at least it is on the 150) and once it gets bent it won't hold its shape anymore even if you bend it back to spec. It looks stronger than it is, but believe me. As a result, all your other adjustments will either be screwed up, or get screwed up after a few shifts. The Clymer Evinrude/Johnson 85-300 HP manual does a reasonably good job of explaining the adjustment process. But I agree your dealer should take care of this for you gratis. Good luck, Tony
ronniet	posted 03-06-2009 08:03 AM ET (US) I agree Tony.The OMC remote shift does not seem to be the culprit.There is going to be decent weather today,and my buddy is free,I will have a better look at the 03 Johnson and the shift linkage.Thanks Ron
ronniet	posted 03-06-2009 08:53 AM ET (US) Seloc manuals for the 03 Johnson are plentiful,Clymer manuals not so!I would geuss by the availability difference that Clymer is the better manual? some direction would be appretiated.Thanks Ron
Tohsgib	posted 03-06-2009 11:28 AM ET (US) Either is fine. Seloc is a good manual.
ChiTown Cetacean	posted 03-10-2009 12:02 AM ET (US) You should be able to find the Clymer manual (or the Seloc) for sale on eBay.
ChiTown Cetacean	posted 03-10-2009 12:03 AM ET (US) You should be able to find the Clymer manual (or the Seloc) for sale on eBay.
johnneary	posted 03-10-2009 04:03 PM ET (US) iI had the same problem. turned out to be worn bushings in the control side of thing! that lever under the fly wheel is your timing advance. make sure all yor scews and plates are tight in your remote! mine is the side mount but the same principal.
johnneary	posted 03-10-2009 04:13 PM ET (US) do a google search i was able to obtain a microtieche type print out for my control w/ all related parts and their part#'s > it cost me 14.00 to fix it.
ronniet	posted 03-11-2009 11:41 AM ET (US) I'm not ruling out that its the remote shift,The only thing is I can see that there is alot of travel of the 03 johnson linkage when engaged in reverse,perhaps there should be more travel than there is? When i compair forward to reverse there is a small amount of difference in the timming advance actuation,it doesn't move as far as in forward! Thanks Ron
johnneary	posted 03-11-2009 02:08 PM ET (US) Disconnect the throttle put the remote in reverse and throttle it up by hand. if it throttles up you will know how much travel you are looking for and proof its the remote or cable.
ronniet	posted 03-12-2009 06:54 PM ET (US) Sounds like my next step,first i will remove the cover of the shifter and check the bushings and such.I,m just waiting on some weather here!Thanks Ron.
ronniet	posted 03-27-2009 07:19 AM ET (US) Bringing closure to this subject for"No throttle adv...well it turns out the problem was not related to the linkage at all,3 0f the 6 carbs on my 03 Johnson 175 were flooding and dumping fuel at low rpm,hence the lack of throttle response.A rebuild of all the carbs solved the problem.I would like to thank everyone who contributed to this topic.If it was possible,there's a Cod fillet in my freezer for ya! Ron