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Author Topic:   Best Method for Top Coating Repairs

yachtman32 posted 04-13-2009 12:14 AM ET (US)
I just made a repair on the inside of a transom and now need to paint or gel coat it. What is the best way to finish off this repair? The repair is about 3" x 6" and on the blue interior.
jimh posted 04-13-2009 08:39 AM ET (US)
The "best" method is probably to apply a top coat of color-matched gel coat resin to the repair. If the color is skillfully match and the repair surface has been properly faired, it is possible to make the repair nearly indistinguishable from the surrounding area. Or you could apply paint.
In either case your top coat material, gel coat resin or paint, will probably have to be matched to the interior blue color using your own techniques for tinting. I don't think the blue interior color was always completely consistent in its original tint when applied at the factory, and, given that a blue interior more or less means a boat made prior to c.1972, the original color has likely faded to a new hue after 37 years or more of exposure to sunlight.
tedious posted 04-13-2009 09:00 AM ET (US)
The notes from Spectrum, down towards the end of the post linked below, are the best I have found regarding gelcoat color matching: http://continuouswave.com/ubb/Forum3/HTML/003944.html
Good luck!
Tim
RM NY posted 04-13-2009 09:18 AM ET (US)
I have a 08' anniversary edition to repair with the blue interior that the local dealer had a little problem with getting the light blue gel to match, on a much older boat there is no way light blue gel will match considering that even with new boats colored gelcoat repairs are very difficult to perform and more importantly will not hold well over time.
You will have to have someone local match it in paint, paint can also be blended into the surrounding area alot better.
I know there are clear additives such as clear duratec, but I have found that even though Spectrum sells clear duratec, not all thier gelcoats are compatible with it, they themselves do not even know which ones are and which ones are not.
So go with paint for a much better color match and blending capability, unless you just want to go with the light blue and break it off in a area that may not bother you that much. People have different ideas of what is acceptable so go with whatever you think you will be happy with later on.
RM NY posted 04-13-2009 09:19 AM ET (US)
last paragraph meant to read "go with the light blue gelcoat", but I could not edit it after hitting reply.
Mad Hunt posted 04-13-2009 07:57 PM ET (US)
RM,
You need to find someone else to do your gelcoat work. There should be no problem matching the color on an '08 boat.
yachtman32 posted 04-13-2009 09:25 PM ET (US)
ok you guys are talking me into painting my repair. So now the question is what type of paint do I use and where do I get it? thanks for all the help.
RM NY posted 04-13-2009 09:49 PM ET (US)
Mad Hunt- thats the nature of gelcoat repairs, and it goes back to what I said about some having higher standards then others. Until you have tried it yourself I dont think you can fully understand the difficulties. Its very hard to match and blend a light blue color like that to where it will look like it was NEVER repaired.
Not "good or close enough", but like it never happened.
R T M posted 04-14-2009 11:20 AM ET (US)
What kind of paint to use. that is a problem. First I would clean, buff and wax the rest of the interior, so I could get an accurate idea of the true color. I would use gelcoat. If you use a 1 part marine enamel, in a year it will dull ot and change color. If you use a 2 part polyurethane such as AwlGrip, it will be very expensive for just a small area to paint, and it will have a gloss finish, which will not look good with the duller gelcoat.
Who will you get to match the actual color of your interior. Where can you get a sample to put on the color computer. If it was my boat I would buy a small quantity of the Spectrum blue for Whaler interiors and re tint it yourself. Also get some white and grey for tinting. Take a small sample of the blue and dab a little bit on the interior near the patch with an artist brush. Now study the difference. It`s probably to dark and blue, so add a couple of drops of white or grey and do it again. wipe off the samples with acetone. It just takes patience and you can get an almost or perfect match. I used to work in a paint store back in the `60s and we would match paint for customers this way. This was before color computers. I don`t know if universal tinting colors is compatible with gel coat, probably is, but I would check with Spectrum. They are available from Home Depot, and there is a large choice of tints. If your looking to make it invisible you will have to gelcoat the entire inside of the transom. use a small bullnose cigar foam roller.
rich(Binkie)
crabby posted 04-14-2009 07:34 PM ET (US)
MadHunt:
RM runs a high end repair shop. If you have ever seen any of his work you'd realize he speaks from quite a bit of experience.
Just my $0.02.
L H G posted 04-14-2009 09:23 PM ET (US)
Rich's advice on matching gelcoat is right on. I use the same method. Sometimes it has taken me an hour of dabbing on test colors to get it right. I have never found Spectrum's colors to be correct. Ony then do you pour out what you need and add catalyst. You will usually end up with way to much tinted. Save it for future use and put it in the
fridge. It's good for about 8 months at most. For larger areas, I brush it on quite thick, several layers, with a foam brush, then sand it back down. This usually prevents sanding through and having to start all over again.
R T M posted 04-14-2009 11:48 PM ET (US)
Back in `59, I took a semester of college and got a job at a boat dealer rigging Evinrudes on Thompson wood boats. The dealer also had a full time painter who mostly put a fresh coat of varnish on the new boats, after I rigged them. We both worked out of a building behind the Marina. They also sold a line of cheap plywood runabouts. One snowy day in Feb or March the boss towed a pink runabout over to the building we worked out of. It had a big scratch on the side about 3 feet long, and he told the painter to touch it up because the buyer was coming for it the next day. The painter complained to me after the boss left about going out in the cold and snow to match the paint and touch up the scratch. I told him, no problem, I`ll match it from inside the building. the boat was 50 feet away. We could see it through the window. He said no way, of course. Actually, I was just goofing around. I poured a little red enamel in a small can, and then a small amount of white, and stirred it up, and handed it to him. It actually looked pretty good, and he took it outside with a small brush. When he didn`t come right back, and I looked out the window, and saw him on his knees painting, I said to myself, no way. He came in in a while and told me it was a perfect match, how did I do it. I`m just good, I said, of course it was only dumb luck.
rich(Binkie)

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Author	Topic: Best Method for Top Coating Repairs
yachtman32	posted 04-13-2009 12:14 AM ET (US) I just made a repair on the inside of a transom and now need to paint or gel coat it. What is the best way to finish off this repair? The repair is about 3" x 6" and on the blue interior.
jimh	posted 04-13-2009 08:39 AM ET (US) The "best" method is probably to apply a top coat of color-matched gel coat resin to the repair. If the color is skillfully match and the repair surface has been properly faired, it is possible to make the repair nearly indistinguishable from the surrounding area. Or you could apply paint. In either case your top coat material, gel coat resin or paint, will probably have to be matched to the interior blue color using your own techniques for tinting. I don't think the blue interior color was always completely consistent in its original tint when applied at the factory, and, given that a blue interior more or less means a boat made prior to c.1972, the original color has likely faded to a new hue after 37 years or more of exposure to sunlight.
tedious	posted 04-13-2009 09:00 AM ET (US) The notes from Spectrum, down towards the end of the post linked below, are the best I have found regarding gelcoat color matching: http://continuouswave.com/ubb/Forum3/HTML/003944.html Good luck! Tim
RM NY	posted 04-13-2009 09:18 AM ET (US) I have a 08' anniversary edition to repair with the blue interior that the local dealer had a little problem with getting the light blue gel to match, on a much older boat there is no way light blue gel will match considering that even with new boats colored gelcoat repairs are very difficult to perform and more importantly will not hold well over time. You will have to have someone local match it in paint, paint can also be blended into the surrounding area alot better. I know there are clear additives such as clear duratec, but I have found that even though Spectrum sells clear duratec, not all thier gelcoats are compatible with it, they themselves do not even know which ones are and which ones are not. So go with paint for a much better color match and blending capability, unless you just want to go with the light blue and break it off in a area that may not bother you that much. People have different ideas of what is acceptable so go with whatever you think you will be happy with later on.
RM NY	posted 04-13-2009 09:19 AM ET (US) last paragraph meant to read "go with the light blue gelcoat", but I could not edit it after hitting reply.
Mad Hunt	posted 04-13-2009 07:57 PM ET (US) RM, You need to find someone else to do your gelcoat work. There should be no problem matching the color on an '08 boat.
yachtman32	posted 04-13-2009 09:25 PM ET (US) ok you guys are talking me into painting my repair. So now the question is what type of paint do I use and where do I get it? thanks for all the help.
RM NY	posted 04-13-2009 09:49 PM ET (US) Mad Hunt- thats the nature of gelcoat repairs, and it goes back to what I said about some having higher standards then others. Until you have tried it yourself I dont think you can fully understand the difficulties. Its very hard to match and blend a light blue color like that to where it will look like it was NEVER repaired. Not "good or close enough", but like it never happened.
R T M	posted 04-14-2009 11:20 AM ET (US) What kind of paint to use. that is a problem. First I would clean, buff and wax the rest of the interior, so I could get an accurate idea of the true color. I would use gelcoat. If you use a 1 part marine enamel, in a year it will dull ot and change color. If you use a 2 part polyurethane such as AwlGrip, it will be very expensive for just a small area to paint, and it will have a gloss finish, which will not look good with the duller gelcoat. Who will you get to match the actual color of your interior. Where can you get a sample to put on the color computer. If it was my boat I would buy a small quantity of the Spectrum blue for Whaler interiors and re tint it yourself. Also get some white and grey for tinting. Take a small sample of the blue and dab a little bit on the interior near the patch with an artist brush. Now study the difference. It`s probably to dark and blue, so add a couple of drops of white or grey and do it again. wipe off the samples with acetone. It just takes patience and you can get an almost or perfect match. I used to work in a paint store back in the `60s and we would match paint for customers this way. This was before color computers. I don`t know if universal tinting colors is compatible with gel coat, probably is, but I would check with Spectrum. They are available from Home Depot, and there is a large choice of tints. If your looking to make it invisible you will have to gelcoat the entire inside of the transom. use a small bullnose cigar foam roller. rich(Binkie)
crabby	posted 04-14-2009 07:34 PM ET (US) MadHunt: RM runs a high end repair shop. If you have ever seen any of his work you'd realize he speaks from quite a bit of experience. Just my $0.02.
L H G	posted 04-14-2009 09:23 PM ET (US) Rich's advice on matching gelcoat is right on. I use the same method. Sometimes it has taken me an hour of dabbing on test colors to get it right. I have never found Spectrum's colors to be correct. Ony then do you pour out what you need and add catalyst. You will usually end up with way to much tinted. Save it for future use and put it in the fridge. It's good for about 8 months at most. For larger areas, I brush it on quite thick, several layers, with a foam brush, then sand it back down. This usually prevents sanding through and having to start all over again.
R T M	posted 04-14-2009 11:48 PM ET (US) Back in `59, I took a semester of college and got a job at a boat dealer rigging Evinrudes on Thompson wood boats. The dealer also had a full time painter who mostly put a fresh coat of varnish on the new boats, after I rigged them. We both worked out of a building behind the Marina. They also sold a line of cheap plywood runabouts. One snowy day in Feb or March the boss towed a pink runabout over to the building we worked out of. It had a big scratch on the side about 3 feet long, and he told the painter to touch it up because the buyer was coming for it the next day. The painter complained to me after the boss left about going out in the cold and snow to match the paint and touch up the scratch. I told him, no problem, I`ll match it from inside the building. the boat was 50 feet away. We could see it through the window. He said no way, of course. Actually, I was just goofing around. I poured a little red enamel in a small can, and then a small amount of white, and stirred it up, and handed it to him. It actually looked pretty good, and he took it outside with a small brush. When he didn`t come right back, and I looked out the window, and saw him on his knees painting, I said to myself, no way. He came in in a while and told me it was a perfect match, how did I do it. I`m just good, I said, of course it was only dumb luck. rich(Binkie)