2% tramex moisture in 1998 conquest 21 transom

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Author Topic:   2% tramex moisture in 1998 conquest 21 transom

alienhelper posted 06-25-2009 05:49 PM ET (US)
found a above average 1998 conquest twenty-one. i had the boat surveyed and the only notable finding was a moisture meter reading of 2% in the transom. i wanted to collect some expert opinions if, this is something to worry about? does anyone know if this is an indication of a lamination failure? does anyone know what the transom is constructed of, wood, composite? I want this boat something awful but I am worried about the reading . . . . PLEASE give me your opinions . . . . thanks all!!!!!
jimh posted 06-25-2009 08:41 PM ET (US)
What does the word "tramex" mean? I am not familiar with it , and I cannot find any definition for it in the dictionary.
Bella con23 posted 06-25-2009 08:42 PM ET (US)
I googled "Marine plywood moisture content" and the articles that I read all claimed to have 5% to 15% moisture.
I would expect some moisture in all wood. Not that I'm any expert!
Joe
sraab928 posted 06-25-2009 08:44 PM ET (US)
Jim, I believe he is referring to the brand of moisture meter.
https://tramexltd.com/
Bella con23 posted 06-25-2009 08:45 PM ET (US)
http://www.moisturemeterstore.com/tramex_moisture_meters.shtml
It a manufacturer of moisure meters apparently.
Joe
jimh posted 06-25-2009 09:57 PM ET (US)
So you think he meant "Tramex" a proper noun, indicated by the capital letter? In that case, does "2% tramex moisture" (sic) mean a moisture content of two percent as measured by a Tramex-brand meter?
sraab928 posted 06-26-2009 09:18 PM ET (US)
I do believe that is what he meant. The transom has a 2% moisture reading on a Tramex meter.
To me that number seems low - All wood has some moisture content to it.
jimh posted 06-26-2009 09:58 PM ET (US)
Yes, that is the same inference I made. He is asking us to make a decision to recommend in favor of purchase of the boat or to recommend against purchase of the boat based on finding that a measurement with a Tramex moisture meter showed 2-percent moisture content in the transom.
I am not sure if there is anything significant about the use of a Tramex meter. By that I mean, would the recommendation to buy or not buy change because a Tramex-brand moisture meter was used?
I am not sure if there is anything significant about finding two percent moisture content, either, no matter what brand of instrument was used.
We know that the transom contains wood. Wood has a density that is lower than water. When wood contains two-percent moisture, its density is slightly higher than wood which is perfectly dry. Let's analyze the change in density.
For water we use a density of 64-lbs/1-foot^3.
Cf.: http://www.chrismanual.com/Intro/prop.htm
For plywood we use a density of 0.8-grams/1-cm^3
Cf.: http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/224157814/floor_base_plywood.html
Let's convert the plywood to the same units:
1-gram = 0.0022-lbs and 1-cm = 0.032808399 feet
So the density of plywood becomes
0.8-grams X 0.0022-lbs/1-gram = 0.00176-lbs
1-cm^3 = 0.032808399^3-feet = 0.0000353
--or--
49.8-lbs/1-foot^3
Now we find the density of a plywood with 2-percent moisture:
Density = 49.8 x 0.98 + 64 x 0.02
Density = 48.804 + 1.28
Density = 50.084
Now we find the increase in density:
50.084 - 49.8 = 0.284-lbs/1-foot^3
Let's figure the transom area which is reinforced with plywood on a Boston Whaler 21 CONQUEST is about 8-feet wide, 3-feet high, and 0.25-feet thick. This is a volume of 8 x 3 x 0.25 = 6-feet^3.
The weight increase due to two-percent moisture will thus be
6 x 0.284 = 1.7-lbs.
Now I think we have a basis for making a recommendation on the purchase of this Boston Whaler 21 CONQUEST:
Should a Boston Whaler 21 CONQUEST be purchased if the transom has been found to have absorbed water to the point where its weigh has increased by 27 ounces?
Consider that the hull of the boat weighs 2,400-lbs, What is the change in weight if the transom absorbs two percent moisture:
1.7-lbs/2,400-lbs = 0.07-percent.
So we rephrase: Should a Boston Whaler 21 CONQUEST be purchased if the transom has been found to have absorbed water to the point where the hull weight has increased by seven-onehundredths of one percent?
We could also consider the change in strength from water content of two percent. Such an analysis is left as an exercise for the reader.
jimh posted 06-27-2009 12:08 PM ET (US)
I don't have a good source for reference of the size of the wood reinforcement in the transom of a 1998 Boston Whaler CONQUEST 21, so my estimate of the amount of wood is probably much too high. Based on a sketch I found, it appears that the transom might only contain about one-third the volume of wood that I used in my estimate above. If this were so, it would reduce the calculated weight increases to one-third. For example, instead of a weight increase of 27-ounces, the weight increase due to absorbed moisture in the transom would be only 9-ounces.
sraab928 posted 06-27-2009 03:08 PM ET (US)
I think that moisture content would be more of a concern with potential for rot or delamination versus weight gain. Foam moisture content would be a concern for weight gain in my opinion. Which at the end of the day is all it is, my opinion.
DeeVee posted 06-27-2009 09:56 PM ET (US)
Two percent moisture content seems extremely dry to me.
Hardwood flooring installed in homes should be climatized to the building before installing. If I remember correctly, six to seven percent is dry enough for installation, depending on the building's ambient relative humdity.
Doug Vazquez
jimh posted 06-28-2009 09:29 AM ET (US)
If I paid a surveyor to perform a survey of a boat, and if he told me that he found the transom of the boat under survey measured two-percent moisture content on his Tramex brand meter, my inclination would be to ask the following questions:
--What is the significance of the Tramex meter?
--What is the significance of a two-percent moisture content?
--Are these findings indicative of a major problem?
I know that the term "survey" means to accurately measure and describe things, but in the sense of having a boat surveyed I think the process involves some evaluation on the part of the surveyor about his measurements. It seems reasonable that the surveyor would provide some more information about his noting the moisture content. It seems that we ought to make the inference that finding two-percent moisture content is abnormal. I base this on the description that this was "the only notable finding" in the survey.

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Author	Topic: 2% tramex moisture in 1998 conquest 21 transom
alienhelper	posted 06-25-2009 05:49 PM ET (US) found a above average 1998 conquest twenty-one. i had the boat surveyed and the only notable finding was a moisture meter reading of 2% in the transom. i wanted to collect some expert opinions if, this is something to worry about? does anyone know if this is an indication of a lamination failure? does anyone know what the transom is constructed of, wood, composite? I want this boat something awful but I am worried about the reading . . . . PLEASE give me your opinions . . . . thanks all!!!!!
jimh	posted 06-25-2009 08:41 PM ET (US) What does the word "tramex" mean? I am not familiar with it , and I cannot find any definition for it in the dictionary.
Bella con23	posted 06-25-2009 08:42 PM ET (US) I googled "Marine plywood moisture content" and the articles that I read all claimed to have 5% to 15% moisture. I would expect some moisture in all wood. Not that I'm any expert! Joe
sraab928	posted 06-25-2009 08:44 PM ET (US) Jim, I believe he is referring to the brand of moisture meter. https://tramexltd.com/
Bella con23	posted 06-25-2009 08:45 PM ET (US) http://www.moisturemeterstore.com/tramex_moisture_meters.shtml It a manufacturer of moisure meters apparently. Joe
jimh	posted 06-25-2009 09:57 PM ET (US) So you think he meant "Tramex" a proper noun, indicated by the capital letter? In that case, does "2% tramex moisture" (sic) mean a moisture content of two percent as measured by a Tramex-brand meter?
sraab928	posted 06-26-2009 09:18 PM ET (US) I do believe that is what he meant. The transom has a 2% moisture reading on a Tramex meter. To me that number seems low - All wood has some moisture content to it.
jimh	posted 06-26-2009 09:58 PM ET (US) Yes, that is the same inference I made. He is asking us to make a decision to recommend in favor of purchase of the boat or to recommend against purchase of the boat based on finding that a measurement with a Tramex moisture meter showed 2-percent moisture content in the transom. I am not sure if there is anything significant about the use of a Tramex meter. By that I mean, would the recommendation to buy or not buy change because a Tramex-brand moisture meter was used? I am not sure if there is anything significant about finding two percent moisture content, either, no matter what brand of instrument was used. We know that the transom contains wood. Wood has a density that is lower than water. When wood contains two-percent moisture, its density is slightly higher than wood which is perfectly dry. Let's analyze the change in density. For water we use a density of 64-lbs/1-foot^3. Cf.: http://www.chrismanual.com/Intro/prop.htm For plywood we use a density of 0.8-grams/1-cm^3 Cf.: http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/224157814/floor_base_plywood.html Let's convert the plywood to the same units: 1-gram = 0.0022-lbs and 1-cm = 0.032808399 feet So the density of plywood becomes 0.8-grams X 0.0022-lbs/1-gram = 0.00176-lbs 1-cm^3 = 0.032808399^3-feet = 0.0000353 --or-- 49.8-lbs/1-foot^3 Now we find the density of a plywood with 2-percent moisture: Density = 49.8 x 0.98 + 64 x 0.02 Density = 48.804 + 1.28 Density = 50.084 Now we find the increase in density: 50.084 - 49.8 = 0.284-lbs/1-foot^3 Let's figure the transom area which is reinforced with plywood on a Boston Whaler 21 CONQUEST is about 8-feet wide, 3-feet high, and 0.25-feet thick. This is a volume of 8 x 3 x 0.25 = 6-feet^3. The weight increase due to two-percent moisture will thus be 6 x 0.284 = 1.7-lbs. Now I think we have a basis for making a recommendation on the purchase of this Boston Whaler 21 CONQUEST: Should a Boston Whaler 21 CONQUEST be purchased if the transom has been found to have absorbed water to the point where its weigh has increased by 27 ounces? Consider that the hull of the boat weighs 2,400-lbs, What is the change in weight if the transom absorbs two percent moisture: 1.7-lbs/2,400-lbs = 0.07-percent. So we rephrase: Should a Boston Whaler 21 CONQUEST be purchased if the transom has been found to have absorbed water to the point where the hull weight has increased by seven-onehundredths of one percent? We could also consider the change in strength from water content of two percent. Such an analysis is left as an exercise for the reader.
jimh	posted 06-27-2009 12:08 PM ET (US) I don't have a good source for reference of the size of the wood reinforcement in the transom of a 1998 Boston Whaler CONQUEST 21, so my estimate of the amount of wood is probably much too high. Based on a sketch I found, it appears that the transom might only contain about one-third the volume of wood that I used in my estimate above. If this were so, it would reduce the calculated weight increases to one-third. For example, instead of a weight increase of 27-ounces, the weight increase due to absorbed moisture in the transom would be only 9-ounces.
sraab928	posted 06-27-2009 03:08 PM ET (US) I think that moisture content would be more of a concern with potential for rot or delamination versus weight gain. Foam moisture content would be a concern for weight gain in my opinion. Which at the end of the day is all it is, my opinion.
DeeVee	posted 06-27-2009 09:56 PM ET (US) Two percent moisture content seems extremely dry to me. Hardwood flooring installed in homes should be climatized to the building before installing. If I remember correctly, six to seven percent is dry enough for installation, depending on the building's ambient relative humdity. Doug Vazquez
jimh	posted 06-28-2009 09:29 AM ET (US) If I paid a surveyor to perform a survey of a boat, and if he told me that he found the transom of the boat under survey measured two-percent moisture content on his Tramex brand meter, my inclination would be to ask the following questions: --What is the significance of the Tramex meter? --What is the significance of a two-percent moisture content? --Are these findings indicative of a major problem? I know that the term "survey" means to accurately measure and describe things, but in the sense of having a boat surveyed I think the process involves some evaluation on the part of the surveyor about his measurements. It seems reasonable that the surveyor would provide some more information about his noting the moisture content. It seems that we ought to make the inference that finding two-percent moisture content is abnormal. I base this on the description that this was "the only notable finding" in the survey.