Diagnostic Procedures for Power Trim and Tilt Systems

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Author Topic:   Diagnostic Procedures for Power Trim and Tilt Systems

James23 posted 07-01-2009 05:47 PM ET (US)
My motor is stuck in the up position. I replaced the down relay but still won't go down. I unscrewed the pin and it went down. What could be [the cause of this malfunction]? Thanks!
TC posted 07-01-2009 07:31 PM ET (US)
Try switching the up and down relays to determine if the relay is the problem. If [switching the relays] swaps the problem, it's the relay. If not, time to start checking the wiring.
jimh posted 07-01-2009 08:51 PM ET (US)
The tilt and trim system on almost every motor uses an hydraulic ram. Hydraulic fluid pressure is provided by an electric pump. In hydraulic systems there generally are check valves or one-way valves which maintain the hydraulic ram in position. If your engine has a malfunction, there are several likely causes:
--an electrical malfunction caused the system to fail; or,
--a hydraulic malfunction caused the system to fail.
It is completely beyond the realm of possibility to describe the repair of hydraulic trim and tilt systems in a narrative form. You need pictures, diagrams, diagnostic procedures, and the factory service literature.
The power tilt and trim system is an electro-hydraulic system. There are two distinct sub-systems: the electrical and the hydraulic. Diagnosis of problems in the electrical system is (at least for me) fairly straightforward. There is a source of power (the battery), controls (the trim switches and the relays they operate), and the actuator (the electric motor). With a basic knowledge of electricity you can easily investigate and repair problems in this electrical system.
The hydraulic system is (at least for me) more complicated. There is a source of pressure (the hydraulic pump), a system of valves to distribute the pressure, and as many as three actuators (the hydraulic rams). As a general rule, most all hydraulic systems depend on the proper operation of a series of one-way valves or check valves in order to maintain the hydraulic force after the actuator has been stopped. And, of course, the hydraulic system requires a completely sealed system which prevents any loss of fluid or pressure.
I would be glad to try to assist you in the diagnosis and remedy of an electrical problem. For a hydraulic problem I recommend you obtain the factory service manual. In my experience (with factory manuals from OMC) there will be a detailed description and explanation of how the hydraulic system of the tilt trim mechanism works. This will be very valuable in diagnosis of any problems.
On the most rudimentary level, any sign of loss of fluid from a hydraulic system is indication of a failure of its integrity which must be located and repaired before any chance of successful operation is possible. Therefore you must locate and repair the source of the fluid leak you have observed. This may be as simple as tightening a retainer cap or screw.
In hydraulic systems there must be no air in the hydraulic lines and actuators. Air can be compressed, while fluids cannot. The incompressible nature of fluid is the underlying basis of hydraulic systems. If air were in your system, over time it could be compressed by the load of the motor and allowed the motor to tilt down.
The owner's manual should contain instructions on how to check the fluid level, how to add fluid, and how to bleed air from the system. On many motors, air can be bleed from the system by operating the system through its entire range of motion several times while the filler cap is removed.
Among motors currently being made, there is a very strong congruence in their tilt and trim systems, as the tilt and trim unit is often made by a supplier and installed as a sub-assembly. Many makers use the same supplier.
Tohsgib posted 07-02-2009 11:00 AM ET (US)
Switch the relays to double check. New one might be bad. If good then switch the switch. If now it does not go up, your switch is bad. Is it clicking? If no click it is switch or connections. Does it do the same thing at the engine as it does at the controls?
jimh posted 07-02-2009 07:39 PM ET (US)
The electrical circuit of the trim tilt control system is simple. The buttons control relays, which control a motor. It should be relatively easy to deduce if the problem is in the electrical portion or the hydraulic portion of the system. There is also the possibility the problem is mechanical, that is, the unit is sticking in a certain position from mechanical binding.
Martino posted 07-03-2009 06:35 AM ET (US)
What brand engine, HP, year? Factory T&T or aftermarket? When you push the down button, does anything happen? Does the T&T motor run?
striper swiper posted 07-03-2009 08:21 AM ET (US)
I'm having a similar problem, the trim works fine from the console but sticks intermittently from the engine. It could be the switch or the contact were its screwed in,I checked the relay by switching them (they work fine). I'll probably replace the switch, it eliminates any further guess work and
its time for a new one, why mess around?
James23 posted 07-03-2009 09:57 AM ET (US)
The motor does not make noise when you hit the down button.
Could it be a fuse? It goes up fine just not down with both switches front and back.
striper swiper posted 07-03-2009 10:01 AM ET (US)
Its not a fuse, probably the switch, if you can find the leads on the engine, try cleaning and tightening them, sometimes that works.Also as previously mention try switching the good relay.
Martino posted 07-03-2009 05:30 PM ET (US)
Make, year, HP, etc., would help
dbrown posted 07-03-2009 05:59 PM ET (US)
To eliminate the tilt and trim motor itself as the problem, follow the trim motor wiring harness into the cowling. Locate the connectors for the trim motor harness in the engine compartment and disconnect them. Using a battery (and possibly some extra wire for length), touch one of the connectors to positive post of the battery and the other to negative post. The tilt motor should run and engine should either tilt up or down. To reverse direction, simply reverse the wires on the battery. If this works and the trim motor functions properly, then you have a wiring problem, switch problem or the relays are bad. If you get no response from the tilt motor, then it is likely defective.
James23 posted 07-04-2009 11:49 AM ET (US)
It is a 96 225 evinrude
jimh posted 07-05-2009 08:45 AM ET (US)
If you are going to attempt to make a diagnosis about the electrical problem in your power trim and tilt system, we have to assume you understand electricity and simple electrical circuits. The electrical controls in a power trim and tilt system are extremely simple. Get the service manual for your motor. It will have a schematic diagram or a pictorial wiring diagram. To anyone who understands electrical circuitry, upon seeing the wiring diagram it will be immediately obvious how the system works, how to diagnose the problems, and where to begin checking.
I have found that it is not particularly effective to attempt to explain how electrical circuitry works to people who are not familiar with electrical circuitry by using a discussion forum format and trading questions and answers back and forth.
The general arrangement of the electrical controls in a power trim and tilt system is that one or two sets of small switches control a pair of relays. The relays are arranged so that they operate a single electrical motor. Power to the switches and relays is generally provided anytime the battery cable is connected to the motor, so the system operates independently of the ignition key switch. The switches are typically a center-off momentary action single pole double throw switch. Generally there is a switch on the motor and a second switch on the remote controls. These typically are wired in parallel. They control relays. Typically the relays are plug-in relays. The conductors associated with the UP function are typically BLUE. The conductors associated with the DOWN function are typically GREEN. Once you look at the wiring diagram you will see all of this clearly.
If you listen carefully you can hear a relay operating by its sound; they generally make a small CLICK sound when they are actuated, and a softer CLICK when they are released. If you listen carefully you can hear the motor running. You can make a reasonable diagnosis of the electrical portion of the controls just by using your ear as a test instrument. If you do not hear the relays clicking and the motor running, investigate the circuit to see what has failed. Again, in term of electrical circuitry, it cannot get much simpler.

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Author	Topic: Diagnostic Procedures for Power Trim and Tilt Systems
James23	posted 07-01-2009 05:47 PM ET (US) My motor is stuck in the up position. I replaced the down relay but still won't go down. I unscrewed the pin and it went down. What could be [the cause of this malfunction]? Thanks!
TC	posted 07-01-2009 07:31 PM ET (US) Try switching the up and down relays to determine if the relay is the problem. If [switching the relays] swaps the problem, it's the relay. If not, time to start checking the wiring.
jimh	posted 07-01-2009 08:51 PM ET (US) The tilt and trim system on almost every motor uses an hydraulic ram. Hydraulic fluid pressure is provided by an electric pump. In hydraulic systems there generally are check valves or one-way valves which maintain the hydraulic ram in position. If your engine has a malfunction, there are several likely causes: --an electrical malfunction caused the system to fail; or, --a hydraulic malfunction caused the system to fail. It is completely beyond the realm of possibility to describe the repair of hydraulic trim and tilt systems in a narrative form. You need pictures, diagrams, diagnostic procedures, and the factory service literature. The power tilt and trim system is an electro-hydraulic system. There are two distinct sub-systems: the electrical and the hydraulic. Diagnosis of problems in the electrical system is (at least for me) fairly straightforward. There is a source of power (the battery), controls (the trim switches and the relays they operate), and the actuator (the electric motor). With a basic knowledge of electricity you can easily investigate and repair problems in this electrical system. The hydraulic system is (at least for me) more complicated. There is a source of pressure (the hydraulic pump), a system of valves to distribute the pressure, and as many as three actuators (the hydraulic rams). As a general rule, most all hydraulic systems depend on the proper operation of a series of one-way valves or check valves in order to maintain the hydraulic force after the actuator has been stopped. And, of course, the hydraulic system requires a completely sealed system which prevents any loss of fluid or pressure. I would be glad to try to assist you in the diagnosis and remedy of an electrical problem. For a hydraulic problem I recommend you obtain the factory service manual. In my experience (with factory manuals from OMC) there will be a detailed description and explanation of how the hydraulic system of the tilt trim mechanism works. This will be very valuable in diagnosis of any problems. On the most rudimentary level, any sign of loss of fluid from a hydraulic system is indication of a failure of its integrity which must be located and repaired before any chance of successful operation is possible. Therefore you must locate and repair the source of the fluid leak you have observed. This may be as simple as tightening a retainer cap or screw. In hydraulic systems there must be no air in the hydraulic lines and actuators. Air can be compressed, while fluids cannot. The incompressible nature of fluid is the underlying basis of hydraulic systems. If air were in your system, over time it could be compressed by the load of the motor and allowed the motor to tilt down. The owner's manual should contain instructions on how to check the fluid level, how to add fluid, and how to bleed air from the system. On many motors, air can be bleed from the system by operating the system through its entire range of motion several times while the filler cap is removed. Among motors currently being made, there is a very strong congruence in their tilt and trim systems, as the tilt and trim unit is often made by a supplier and installed as a sub-assembly. Many makers use the same supplier.
Tohsgib	posted 07-02-2009 11:00 AM ET (US) Switch the relays to double check. New one might be bad. If good then switch the switch. If now it does not go up, your switch is bad. Is it clicking? If no click it is switch or connections. Does it do the same thing at the engine as it does at the controls?
jimh	posted 07-02-2009 07:39 PM ET (US) The electrical circuit of the trim tilt control system is simple. The buttons control relays, which control a motor. It should be relatively easy to deduce if the problem is in the electrical portion or the hydraulic portion of the system. There is also the possibility the problem is mechanical, that is, the unit is sticking in a certain position from mechanical binding.
Martino	posted 07-03-2009 06:35 AM ET (US) What brand engine, HP, year? Factory T&T or aftermarket? When you push the down button, does anything happen? Does the T&T motor run?
striper swiper	posted 07-03-2009 08:21 AM ET (US) I'm having a similar problem, the trim works fine from the console but sticks intermittently from the engine. It could be the switch or the contact were its screwed in,I checked the relay by switching them (they work fine). I'll probably replace the switch, it eliminates any further guess work and its time for a new one, why mess around?
James23	posted 07-03-2009 09:57 AM ET (US) The motor does not make noise when you hit the down button. Could it be a fuse? It goes up fine just not down with both switches front and back.
striper swiper	posted 07-03-2009 10:01 AM ET (US) Its not a fuse, probably the switch, if you can find the leads on the engine, try cleaning and tightening them, sometimes that works.Also as previously mention try switching the good relay.
Martino	posted 07-03-2009 05:30 PM ET (US) Make, year, HP, etc., would help
dbrown	posted 07-03-2009 05:59 PM ET (US) To eliminate the tilt and trim motor itself as the problem, follow the trim motor wiring harness into the cowling. Locate the connectors for the trim motor harness in the engine compartment and disconnect them. Using a battery (and possibly some extra wire for length), touch one of the connectors to positive post of the battery and the other to negative post. The tilt motor should run and engine should either tilt up or down. To reverse direction, simply reverse the wires on the battery. If this works and the trim motor functions properly, then you have a wiring problem, switch problem or the relays are bad. If you get no response from the tilt motor, then it is likely defective.
James23	posted 07-04-2009 11:49 AM ET (US) It is a 96 225 evinrude
jimh	posted 07-05-2009 08:45 AM ET (US) If you are going to attempt to make a diagnosis about the electrical problem in your power trim and tilt system, we have to assume you understand electricity and simple electrical circuits. The electrical controls in a power trim and tilt system are extremely simple. Get the service manual for your motor. It will have a schematic diagram or a pictorial wiring diagram. To anyone who understands electrical circuitry, upon seeing the wiring diagram it will be immediately obvious how the system works, how to diagnose the problems, and where to begin checking. I have found that it is not particularly effective to attempt to explain how electrical circuitry works to people who are not familiar with electrical circuitry by using a discussion forum format and trading questions and answers back and forth. The general arrangement of the electrical controls in a power trim and tilt system is that one or two sets of small switches control a pair of relays. The relays are arranged so that they operate a single electrical motor. Power to the switches and relays is generally provided anytime the battery cable is connected to the motor, so the system operates independently of the ignition key switch. The switches are typically a center-off momentary action single pole double throw switch. Generally there is a switch on the motor and a second switch on the remote controls. These typically are wired in parallel. They control relays. Typically the relays are plug-in relays. The conductors associated with the UP function are typically BLUE. The conductors associated with the DOWN function are typically GREEN. Once you look at the wiring diagram you will see all of this clearly. If you listen carefully you can hear a relay operating by its sound; they generally make a small CLICK sound when they are actuated, and a softer CLICK when they are released. If you listen carefully you can hear the motor running. You can make a reasonable diagnosis of the electrical portion of the controls just by using your ear as a test instrument. If you do not hear the relays clicking and the motor running, investigate the circuit to see what has failed. Again, in term of electrical circuitry, it cannot get much simpler.