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  Fuel Filler Hose Deterioration - 18' Outrage

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Author Topic:   Fuel Filler Hose Deterioration - 18' Outrage
Buckda posted 07-13-2009 03:05 PM ET (US)   Profile for Buckda   Send Email to Buckda  
I had opportunity to spend a week in Michigan’s beautiful Upper Peninsula archipelago of the Les Cheneaux Islands over the past week. Of course, I took the Whaler.

The trip was a family reunion of sorts, and we had rented a beautiful little cabin in Hessel, Michigan for the week to house my mother, grandmother, brother, sister, brother-in-law and his parents. With 8 people and 4 dogs, we were a crowded house.

A secondary purpose of the trip was to make delivery of a restored 1968 Starcraft 16 ft. fishing boat to my brother.

We had fully fueled the boats on Friday in lower Michigan to take advantage of lower fuel prices and upon arrival, I launched the boat and discovered a bilge sump filled to the top with raw fuel.

My first thought was that my fuel tank had corroded through, and the damage had finally caused the container to burst forth with fuel. The second thought was a broken seal/gasket. I checked both and did not find any problems. Having cleaned up the Whaler, and having nowhere to put it except for the cottage we rented for the week, I proceeded to the dock and got busy figuring with other things. When I returned to the boat, no new fuel had accumulated in the bilge, despite having been run a few miles, and having people in and out of the boat (and very full tank) sloshing it around. So…I went for a spin to see if I could get more fuel to leak so I’d have a freshly wet area to investigate. No joy.

Given that there was no more apparent leakage, I proceeded to use the boat on the calm waters of the Les Cheneaux Islands and did some fishing and even went to see the fireworks (albeit at a slightly increased distance – I’m a risk taker, for sure, but not quite THAT much risk).

Anyway….after draining the tank a bit through use, I continued to be worried about the boat. I have a trip planned for later in the summer, and if fuel is getting out, water can get in….and I needed to find the problem and solve it!

My brother, Pat and I pulled the boat to the dock and I added 5 gallons of fuel from a jerry can we had standing by. Shortly afterwards, more fuel appeared in the bilge – but this time, the tank was not very full. AHA!!! I had some direction!

I pulled the deck plate and re-checked the seal at the fuel fill hose connection to the tank – dry with no smell of gas. Next, I pulled the access panel under the fuel fill plate on the gunnel and checked that connection – tight and dry – but the smell of gas was strong, and the rigging tunnel was wet. I carefully felt the 1 ½ inch fuel fill hose (which I had replaced in 2006 with the new teak deck, new engines, etc). I could feel cracks and softness in the hose. Right at the elbow I felt a hole about the size of my thumb. I had found the problem! I cleaned the rigging tunnel – searching for a screw or nail or anything that might have caused a vibration wear on the hose – but found nothing but some leaf litter and gradu from several years of fishing. No hooks or anything…just mushy black stuff.

Anyway – I had my problem and now I knew the solution. I went to the Marina and bought a length of hose and returned to the boat…..where in my excitement, I failed to measure twice and cut once! I had bought the last few feet of hose from the marina, and cut it too short! D’OH!

Grasping the situation, I went to the OTHER marina in town and killed an hour while they sold me a section of wet exhaust hose. When I pointed out the mis-match, the owner slapped his forehead and informed me that they didn’t have fuel-grade hose in stock. The nearest marina with some was in Mackinaw City – 24-some miles by water and 37 miles (plus tolls) by car.

This won’t surprise those of you who know me, but I packed up the boat, stripped down the extra weight of fishing gear, etc and set off by water to Mackinaw City for the replacement hose, which I installed on-the-spot at the courtesy dock for the ramp.

Why waste a day on the water to do boat chores when you can combine trips and have a great day on the water?

Anyway – check those fuel hoses – like your stickers say – at least annually. This was a new hose and I believe that the ethanol fuel that sits in the elbow “ate through it” in less than three years.

This is an easy and inexpensive hose to replace.

Narragansett Outrage posted 07-13-2009 03:48 PM ET (US)     Profile for Narragansett Outrage  Send Email to Narragansett Outrage     
I'm hoping that the delivery and vent hoses that I just installed will give me a little more time than a few years - that delivery hose was expensive (trident, 1.5", I believe, at about $9/foot)!

And I know what you mean about measuring twice - I'm usually very good about it, but I failed to realize just how tight up against the hull the hose needs to run in order to install that small square of deck over the conduit... ended up having to scoot the hose off of the filler cap and the tank neck just an inch or so in order to get the deck back on; hope that doesn't come back to haunt me.

I think that in your case, having cut it too short, I'd have installed a coupler and used the extra piece if I still had it, just as a temporary measure.

C.

Blackduck posted 07-13-2009 04:09 PM ET (US)     Profile for Blackduck  Send Email to Blackduck     
Do you guys have a 90 degree fitting where the hose enters the tunnel? The BW parts diagram does not show there to be one. Mine has one and it looks to be plastic. I'm afraid that if it is plastic, that E-10 is eating it, because I'd bet it is quite old. I just wonder how easily the hose will bend, without kinking it?
Narragansett Outrage posted 07-13-2009 04:13 PM ET (US)     Profile for Narragansett Outrage  Send Email to Narragansett Outrage     
No, mine didn't have an elbow. The existing fill hose was fine, but the vent hose had deteriorated quite badly. I replaced the fill hose with the same type, made by Trident with an interior wire spiral - even though it's basically a 90-degree bend, I doubt it will kink. And I'm trusting that these new hoses are resilient to the E10.
ConB posted 07-13-2009 04:44 PM ET (US)     Profile for ConB  Send Email to ConB     
Dave, tell me about the fill hose you replaced in 2006, new and old. Where did the new come from?

I was poking at mine this spring contemplating replacing them, but thought I'd go an other year.

Con

Buckda posted 07-13-2009 04:50 PM ET (US)     Profile for Buckda  Send Email to Buckda     
The "new" one was manufactured by Lawrence Marine and sold to me in 2006 from Wolf's in Benton Harbor. The one I purchased in Mackinaw City was a different manufacturer, but with the same USCG number on it.

I recommend probing the hose with your hand feeling for soft spots. If you find a crack or spongy area, replace the hose immediately. The first hose I bought that I cut too short cost me $25 for 3.5 ft (slightly more than you need). The second length of hose cost me $28.

Incidentally, I had a fuel hose themed week - I had to replace the small hose from the fuel pump to the carburator on my 1970 6 HP Johnson/Seahorse motor for my dingy as well. That bit of rubber cost me $2.15.

:)

towboater posted 07-13-2009 04:51 PM ET (US)     Profile for towboater  Send Email to towboater     
With all respect, I think Dave slightly underestimated the value of carrying JOY detergent.

Anyone who is slightly concerned about aging fuel lines should carry a quart of JOY detergent. If you smell fuel for no good reason, the JOY will kill the explosive nature very quickly.

Why JOY?
All Im gonna say, small amounts of Joy (sometimes diluted) will absorb a typical gas/oil screen faster than large amounts of any other brand Ive tried over the past 30 years.
Well, sure, there are other types of degreasers and detergents that work as well but usually cost a lot more or not as readily available on short notice.

As for the environment...uhh, I see it coming...seems to me if JOY is not good for the marine environment, unless you are on a septic system, what happens to the detergents you drain out of your kitchen sink and wash machines?

mk

Buckda posted 07-13-2009 05:02 PM ET (US)     Profile for Buckda  Send Email to Buckda     
Well, they do make gas absorbent mats for fuel spills...


I'll just say that we had a very nice bonfire in the fire pit that afternoon.

ConB posted 07-13-2009 05:26 PM ET (US)     Profile for ConB  Send Email to ConB     
But with the fuel absorbent mats you would not have the option of filling the boat with water and Joy, inviting appropriate guests and having a Soap and Grope. ;-)
LuckyLady posted 07-13-2009 06:15 PM ET (US)     Profile for LuckyLady  Send Email to LuckyLady     
Since lauching my Guardian with it's 150 E-tec, I've used only Ethanol 'Free' gasoline. They sell it only at the harbor in Kona. It means special trips to Kona for gas in jerry cans. Worth the peace of mine.
I've seen and heard so many nightmare stories of just how horrible that crappy Ethanol can be. Many of my good friends are out of the fishing business because of it.
Dave, you were lucky nothing lousy happen. Glad you caught it in time.
high sierra posted 07-13-2009 09:53 PM ET (US)     Profile for high sierra  Send Email to high sierra     
Hi, anyone found a good cast brass or bronze or galvanized steel 90 degree fitting to put in the corner of the fill pipe? high sierra
vkr posted 07-13-2009 11:37 PM ET (US)     Profile for vkr  Send Email to vkr     
Dave, I replaced the fuel fill hose on my Outrage 18 in 2004. I am hoping that the hole you experienced is the result of the severe 90 degree bend that one must place in this hose. To the best of my knowledge the fuel hoses have been of the alcohol resistant type for years before 2004. Again, I hope this is the case.

During the replacement my hose appeared to be original and did not have any type of 90 degree [elbow] insert to negotiate the bend. To the best of my knowledge Boston Whaler did not use an insert [90-degree elbow] fitting. While a nice brass or bronze insert [90-degree elbow] with double stainless steel clamps would make for an easier install, the downside is the additional two clamped fittings.

Sorry to hear you had a mechanical set back on your vacation.

Vince

jimh posted 07-14-2009 08:57 AM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
The typical internal center cockpit fuel tank on a Boston Whaler boat has the fuel inlet at the center. The typical arrangement of the fuel filler cap is for it to be located at the gunwale. This design leads to a long length of rubber fuel filler hose being needed to connect the two.

The connecting hose runs almost vertically down from the gunwale and then horizontally across to the tank. This leaves several feet of hose in which gasoline could remain after tank filling. If gasoline is allowed to sit in the hose for long periods, I believe it can soften the hose and lead to permeation of the hose wall. Eventually this can lead to a leak.

A good practice when fueling is to introduce some heel on the boat so that the side with the fuel filler cap rises. You can do this after fueling has been completed. Heel the boat to one side so that any fuel remaining in the horizontal section of the filler hose will drain into the fuel tank.

Many advocate storing the boat with full fuel tanks. I think it is important to not store with so much fuel that fuel could remain in the filler hose.

Fuel can also slosh during boat operation, and it is possible that fuel could back flow into the fuel filler hose. It is a good practice to heel the boat after use, say at the mooring, or dock, or loading ramp, to remove any fuel from that horizontal section of the filler hose.

I don't recall who it was, perhaps Jeff or Jack (Bulldog), but someone recently replaced the fuel filler hose and made provisions for adding a downward slope to the hose in the horizontal run to help insure that fuel would not remain in the hose after filling. I though that to be a good idea.

JaySul posted 07-20-2009 10:35 AM ET (US)     Profile for JaySul  Send Email to JaySul     
For what it's worth, my 1978 V-20 has a metal elbow that I kept in place when replacing the tank and hoses last year.
Jay
Buckda posted 07-20-2009 10:48 AM ET (US)     Profile for Buckda  Send Email to Buckda     
Yes - I do believe that a metal elbow may make installation of this hose easier - however, I'm not sure that it would help eliminate the problem of fuel sitting in the "low spot" when the boat is not in use. More likely, you'd have failure of the lower - horizontal - hose and have to replace that more frequently.

I don't know the cause of the failure for certain. Ethanol deterioration is my speculation, because I cannot see any other possible source, and the guy at the marina said it "looked like it". However, it is possible that I had a faulty hose that was used in 2006. I just don't know.

All I know is that the sticker on your boat that suggests you inspect the fuel system at least annually is going to be heeded aboard my boat from now on. It will become part of spring commissioning or fall winterizing.

I also plan to not fill the boat before winter storage quite as full as I have in the past.

Blackduck posted 07-20-2009 12:35 PM ET (US)     Profile for Blackduck  Send Email to Blackduck     
I am going to replace mine, there is a plastic 90 degree fitting that has got to go. I have no idea how you guys can bend that hose in the available space. Trident's 327 requires a 6" minimum radius, and even the corrugated 329 requires a minimum 5" radius bend. There just isn't that much space there. So a fitting seems like a must. None available. Guy a Trident says "boy, we really could use one". Only solution I have come up with so far is to use a 90 NPT elbow and 2 barbed hose connectors. , $50, $60 dollars, in bronze. Any cheaper solutions?
Swellmonster posted 07-21-2009 10:29 PM ET (US)     Profile for Swellmonster  Send Email to Swellmonster     
The filler hose should only hold fuel because we fill it up till it overflows. We burn at least 3-10galls p/h which means it isnt there long. How about the fuel that leaves the tank, which is constant? Hmmm, does that leak?
Is there a material diff? I dont know....
Blackduck posted 07-22-2009 10:15 AM ET (US)     Profile for Blackduck  Send Email to Blackduck     
Plastic will not pass Coast Guard regulations, and why do this type of job so-so?

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