ContinuousWave
Whaler
Moderated Discussion Areas
ContinuousWave: Whaler Repairs/Mods
Outrage 22 RADAR Arch
search | FAQ |
profile | register | author help
|
|
ContinuousWave Whaler Moderated Discussion Areas
ContinuousWave: Whaler Repairs/Mods
Outrage 22 RADAR Arch
|
| Author | Topic: Outrage 22 RADAR Arch |
| Russ 13 |
posted 09-12-2009 01:32 AM ET (US)  
[The author says he may] add a Radar arch to an Outrage 22. [The author wants] to have a Bimini top attach to the RADAR arch. [Has any Boston Whaler OUTRAGE 22 been fitted with an] arch? [Give the author] ideas on [fitting a RADAR arch to a Boston Whaler OUTRAGE 22]. Thanks, Russ |
| Mr C |
posted 09-12-2009 11:41 AM ET (US)
Russ, Take a look at Cetacea 48. Shows 22' Outrage Cuddy. I bought the boat from Mario a fews weeks ago. I can send you newer photos and dimensions. Let me know if you have any interest or questions. Dave |
| Russ 13 |
posted 09-12-2009 01:16 PM ET (US)
Hi Dave, I saw the shot's on 48. Nice boat! Yes I would like some photos of the arch and attachment area, if that's not too much trouble. E-mail them. I would like to do something like that with a Bimini-top attached. Did the previous owner do any modification to the gunwale to reinforce it? And is [the RADAR arch] solid, without much flex? How is it attached? Thanks for your help. Russ |
| themclos |
posted 09-12-2009 05:28 PM ET (US)
Mr C, I would appreciate copies of the photos and the dimensions of the arch as well. You can find my email address in my profile. I purchased a 1986 22 OUtrage Cuddy earlier this summer. I am glad to see somebody bought Mario's boat. I know it has been sitting for a few years, but with some new power and some elbow grease you should have a great boat there. Dan |
| home Aside |
posted 09-12-2009 06:36 PM ET (US)
Here are a couple of shots of Kingfish's Outrage 22 with radar arch, he has it set up so his Mills flytop attaches to the radar arch using turnbuckles, it is a very nice setup http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v368/HomeAside/Neptune%20Island/ ?action=view¤t=8662dc37.jpg http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v368/HomeAside/Neptune%20Island/ ?action=view¤t=0f4006f4.jpg Pat |
| jechura |
posted 09-12-2009 08:34 PM ET (US)
Pat, both of the pictures of Kingfish's boat that you show have the "SUN" top up with the "FLY" top at rest on the bow. He has both. The Sun top when not deployed is at rest on the Arch. A better picture of John's setup. http://s5.photobucket.com/albums/y173/jerrym4/Mics/?action=view& current=P3020058.jpg Russ 13 Kingfish had his arch custom made and installed by a company out of Marblehead, Ohio. To the best of my memory, he has never had a problem with the Arch or the installation. There are some untold horror stories about improper installations. |
| jimh |
posted 09-12-2009 09:12 PM ET (US)
It makes a lot more sense to post pictures on the web so everyone can see them, rather than to take the discussion to a private exchange of information. I believe the company that fabricated the RADAR arch for John's boat was Lakeside Marine The cost of these custom fabrication RADAR arches is often more than $3,000, and that was at prices from several years ago. Many Boston Whaler OUTRAGE, OUTRAGE CUDDY, and REVENGE boats in the 18 to 25 foot range have been fitted with RADAR arches. |
| home Aside |
posted 09-13-2009 09:45 AM ET (US)
Jerry, I realized after I posted that I didn't mention that Kingfish had both the Mills flytop & suntop. Your photo does show the turnbuckle attached from the suntop frame to the arch, but I think you'd have to be familiar with Kingfishe's system to make it out in that cluttered photo.....LOL |
| cdnwhaler |
posted 09-13-2009 08:13 PM ET (US)
I've been exploring arches as well recently but there's no way I'll spend 3 grand on one for my old 1984 Outrage 22. My 2 boys are both over 6 ft now as I am and the Outrage grows small after 5 or 6 days onboard. I removed the stern seat this summer for more room plus to use the Swivl-eze ski pylon I purchased this year but I was still looking for more room and thought of the arch. The ski stuff, and a few friends, led me to look at the arches used on ski boats. Thye're sturdy and come with all sorts of racks to carry skis, wakeboards and maybe a kayak or two. Best of all they can be had for many dollars less than the traditoinal arches John and Larry and Dave have. Just a thought. |
| contender |
posted 09-13-2009 08:29 PM ET (US)
Russ 13, Have you looked/thought about a t-top vs. an arch? The t-top allows for handle while standing while under way, an arch you do not stand on the outside of the boat. The t-top is up and protects you from the sun, the arch does not, You can attach more canavs to the t-top(front and rear) as well as the arch. While fishing the arch is in the way the t-top is not. Cost are about the same depending on what you want on the t-top vs. the arch. My other boat has lights front and aft on the t-top, five rod holders, radio and gps bases, radio/storage box, and outriggers installed in the tubes. Having a t-top I can have an enclosed curtain built for the frame around the helm and be out of the weather if needed. Just another though...good luck |
| Russ 13 |
posted 09-13-2009 11:10 PM ET (US)
Thank's for the ideas: I had a T-top on my last boat, that worked ok. I am interrested in the arch idea, as the Bimini top could attach to the Arch. This would make the Bimini more solid & could still fold up for sun or storage. The drawback to a T-top is that it is always up, When trailering or storing the boat. Covering the boat with a storage cover get's creative at best. Nice to see some other 22's with arches, help's with ideas. The gunnel's are fiberglass & wood. And my main concern was if they had enough strength for adding an arch. |
| jimh |
posted 09-14-2009 08:38 AM ET (US)
The OUTRAGE 22 was not engineered for the addition of a RADAR arch to its gunwales, but the many installations seen already give support to the notion the gunwales can bear the load. Regarding the design of the arch, one element to examine is the stiffness and strength of the arch. Consider this: suppose the arch is built like a tank and is very stiff and very strong. If you bolt this strong and stiff arch onto the gunwales of an older Boston Whaler boat, you will be adding stiffness to the hull at that point. It could very well be that the stiffness and strength of the arch is greater than the stiffness and strength of the hull at the point of attachment. If the arch is stronger and stiffer than the hull, when the boat is underway and the hull wants to flex or bend slightly due to the forces of the water acting on it, the arch will resist those movements. This will create tension or compression on the arch and hull, as the hull tries to bend the arch slightly. These forces can lead to cracking of the hull laminate. It may be better to have an arch whose strength and stiffness is approximately equal to the hull's strength and stiffness at the point of attachment. In this way, when the hull wants to move a very small amount in response forces from the sea, the arch will move with it. Of course, now you have the problem of the arch flexing a bit. Will its welds tolerate the pressure? In the design of the modern Boston Whaler boats, the mechanical engineers examine the hull and arch structures, and they build an arch whose strength and stiffness is similar to the hull's strength and stiffness at the points of attachment. Boston Whaler found that some of their arches or top structures were too strong and too stiff, and this lead to creation of stress cracks in the hull at the attachment point. To analyze this, sophisticated computer models were used. In the case of someone fabricating a RADAR arch for a 20-year-old Boston Whaler hull, you will just have to trust the fabricator's knowledge and experience. |
| Buckda |
posted 09-14-2009 01:01 PM ET (US)
Regarding the arches utilized on modern ski-boats to hold speakers, wakeboards, etc. This is pure speculation - but I believe you get what you pay for. I don't believe that you run a ski-boat with the expectation of making headway in 3-5 ft. seas. The repeated "hammering action" of the seas working on an arch (with antennas, flags, etc) require the construction and installation to be very robust. Atlantic Towers, in New Jersey will build and mail you an arch that will fit your boat if you provide careful measurements. The cost for a "standard" arch is about $1500, the cost for a customized one is about $2800 delivered. The arch from Lakeside Marine is considerably more, however, it is also very robust and they insist on installing it on your boat - and do a top-notch job at it). Some Considerations on an Outrage: Access under the gunwale - while you have a 8" wide gunwale cap on the 'top' at least 3 inches of that is sitting on top of a foam filled side of the boat. You will "only" have access to 5 inches to install a backing plate to which you will want to through-bolt the arch. Also, if you are rigging antennas, etc, you will need to drill an access hole that fits under one of the "legs" of the arch and still is within this area of access. I do not recommend modifying the gunwale side to allow access under the gunwale cap. I installed my arch on my 18' Outrage. It was manufactured by Atlantic Towers to my specifications. However, the chop and slop of the Great Lakes have caused me to modify the arch twice (once under warranty, and the other on short money to a friend who is a TIG Welder) to reinforce it to withstand the forces at work on the water in "real world" big water conditions - not the millponds that most competition ski boats find themselves placed in.
|
| Russ 13 |
posted 09-14-2009 01:39 PM ET (US)
I appreciate the advice. BUCKDA, What type of "modifications" did you end up with on your finished arch? and any photo's of completed arch. Most of the ones I have seen are Aluminum, which would flex more than stainless, might be the way to go. It makes sense that you would want some flex, to match the hull. Thanks, |
| Buckda |
posted 09-14-2009 01:58 PM ET (US)
I added 4 gusset plates to stiffen the structure somewhat, and had a couple of welds ground out and re-done. It's all done very well...but I'm glad I didn't get a powdercoat finish because the repairs would have been costly to re-coat the structure after the work was completed. I think that Atlantic Towers was "learning" just how jarring the Great Lakes waves can be. I spoke with one of their designers and he mentioned that they were considering adding additional gusset plates to arch designs intended for the Great Lakes. For my next arch on the next boat - I'm going to go back and add another crossbeam as well - the Lakeside Marine arches have 3 "ladder" beams on each side. The Atlantic Towers Arch has 2. Just some learnings. I still wouldn't put anything REALLY heavy up there - Originally, I had thoughts of strapping a kayak to the arch for wilderness boating/access. That is not going to happen with the conditions we face around here. I have the GPS antenna, the masthead light, two spreader lights and two 8' fiberglass antennas up there, and I'd be willing to add a small radome and lighweight outriggers - but that would be it. |
| Buckda |
posted 09-14-2009 02:05 PM ET (US)
Some photos: http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=30005050&l=a5aa11395c& id=1383963684 http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=30005419&l=213e99a029& id=1383963684 - in this photo, you can see the 4 gussets that I added - on the inside of the arch the "triangle" of flat aluminum at waist high, and the flat aluminum rectangles in the top corners. Note the smaller aluminum "squares" as gussets that came from the factory. Also: http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=30005418&l=a55d86c38b& id=1383963684 |
| Russ 13 |
posted 09-14-2009 02:51 PM ET (US)
Buckda, thanks for the photo's & advice. I am leaning toward Aluminum construction w/a couple of rod holders, two light mounts, Bimini attachment & two antenna mounts. I agree the less weight up high the better. Thanks, |
| Mr C |
posted 09-15-2009 11:58 AM ET (US)
Russ, Dan I sent some photos to your email. As soon as I can figure out photobucket I'll post all of my photos of the boat to date. Dave |
| Russ 13 |
posted 09-15-2009 01:42 PM ET (US)
Dave, Thanks for the photo's.... A BIG HELP!! R |
| themclos |
posted 09-15-2009 08:26 PM ET (US)
Dave, Thanks. I would be happy to post them on photobucket if needed. Dan |
| |
Powered by: Ultimate Bulletin Board, Freeware Version 2000
Purchase our Licensed Version- which adds many more features!
© Infopop Corporation (formerly Madrona Park, Inc.), 1998 - 2000.