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Author Topic:   Stern Seat sources

L H G posted 09-17-2009 05:53 PM ET (US)
I have finally been conviced by family and friends to add the "official Boston Whaler Stern Seat" with factory original tan pleat and piping design, to my second generation Outrage 25. I have seen many, and have been able to determine that there are 4 possible sources. I am wondering which one would be most recommended, and would appreciate any comments and testimonials, pro or con, and pricing indications. Since my boat is full transom, I would only need the U-shaped SS supports, not the back rail support also. Just information, no trashing please.
I have found the following sources:
1. Art's (somewhere in MA)
2. Dave's (somewhere in FL)
3. Hall's Nautical
4. Mills Canvas. I have a quote from them already, at $1225, but they don't offer the support legs, and referred me to CMI. To the best of my knowledge, I have never seen s Mill's seat.
Thanks
macfam posted 09-17-2009 08:32 PM ET (US)
Larry,
I had a new stern seat re-built by Art's in Brockton, MA several years ago.
Art, himself, took me into the back area to show me the wood bending jigs he still had, and his guys did an awesome job.
Art claimed that all those originals came from his shop.
Brockton is only about 15 miles from the old Rockland site.
I wish I could remember the price, but he was also re-buiding the bolsters and a brand new helm cover.
themclos posted 09-17-2009 10:42 PM ET (US)
Larry,
Though Art's made, and still makes, the "Official Boston Whaler Stern Seat", I am told they no longer have the original material.
Mills Canvas does have the original material.
I am looking for a stern seat for a 22 foot hull, and was advised by Jim Dunlop to speak with Art's and ask them how much material they would need, then order the material from Mills and provide it to Art's.
In this way, you will get the seat which best matches the original.
Jim Dunlop informed me that he ordered a seat for his 25 Revenge, and only realized Art's no longer uses the original material when he received the seat.
Dan
L H G posted 09-17-2009 10:50 PM ET (US)
Am I correct that part of the material is smooth, and part pleated? I had heard that information from Jim also, but wonder if anybody has any more recent contact with Art's.
jimh posted 09-18-2009 12:15 AM ET (US)
Last weekend I was laying on my back at the back of the cockpit of my 1990 Boston Whaler REVENGE 22 W-T WD with original stern seat. I was wrestling with rigging some new lines through the rigging tunnel, and trying to avoid removing the stern seat. I looked up at the bottom of the stern seat and saw a label identifying the maker. I was very surprised it was none of the vendors mentioned above. Sorry, I did not jot down who the maker was, but when I get the boat back (perhaps as soon as this weekend) I will make a point of recording that label in a photograph.
ukuslayer posted 09-18-2009 05:45 AM ET (US)
LHG,
I ordered mine from Sue at Twin Cities Marine, I'm sure you can find her number on the sight. She was great to work with and very helpful through the whole ordering process. Mine was for a 22' guardian but I'm sure ordering for a 25 would not be a problem. As for the quality of the seat it is great. Very well made and looks awesome on the boat. I was in the same boat as you, my wife said get me a seat or sell the boat. So I got a seat and also a Bimini top for shade and she loves it.
Aloha Sean
outragesteve posted 09-19-2009 04:21 PM ET (US)
[Suggested taking this discussion to private email. Sorry, but the entire point of a public discusion is its public nature.]
Tom W Clark posted 09-19-2009 05:07 PM ET (US)
Yes, the stern seat uses both smooth and pleated parchment material. Both are still available.
The factory installed stern seat in my 1988 Revenge 25 Walk Around was made by Art's Auto Seats and Canvas, Brockton, MA. The label is still there.
Mine is pretty well worn after twenty years of use and I am considering a replacement.
The seat must be supported laterally, even in a full transom model.
Tom W Clark posted 09-19-2009 05:17 PM ET (US)
There is a reasonably good photograph of the factory stern seat on page 15 of the 1987 Boston Whaler Options catalog and an even better photo of one on page 2 (inside cover) of the 1988 Boston Whaler catalog.
These photos clearly show how the pleated and smooth fabric are used.
Chesapeake posted 09-22-2009 07:41 PM ET (US)
Larry:
Dave's made me a new seat for the 19 last year. I have not yet dropped it in the boat and it is on a shelf in my garage. It is very well constructed and if you are up in Lake Forest, stop in for a beer and to check it out first hand.
Might I suggest, however, that you have a local fabricator make your U frames. I am convinced that you can make a much stronger U piece that what is provided. For example, I'd make it from 1" tube, instead of 7/8. Additionally, I'd weld a plate on the U portion so that you could get a wider purchase distribution. In the classic design, two screws go through the tube and it can rock a little. It is a shame that Seabrite Stainless went out of business in this economy because they would have crafted something much better to my design. I imagine there is someone else up here in Chicago that does it.
Tom W Clark posted 09-22-2009 08:07 PM ET (US)
The stainless steel U frames are plenty strong but you have to understand what they are deigned to do. They support the seat's weight and the weight of any occupants. They also resist tipping forward or backward. The factory rail bases and 7/8" tubing is more than strong enough for this.
But the U frames were never meant to resist any lateral motion. You MUST have additional hardware to secure the seat from moving side to side. This is what the stern rail is for and it does not take much to hold the seat laterally, but it must not move.
L H G posted 09-23-2009 05:55 PM ET (US)
Thanks to all for your information.
In a stern seat installation I am familiar with, in a full transom 25 Revenge, the seat fits snugly across the width of the interior, and cannot move laterally, since in the stern the gunwales go all the way to the boat's floor. All that is used are the two u-shaped legs. Since it also is flush against the stern transom board (teak) there is no room for the back rail as is used in the cut transom models.
So it appears all I will need is the seat and the two leg brackets.
I pass by Twin Cities Marine several times a month, so I am going to see what Sue can do for me. I don't know who her vendor is, but it seems to make sense to get it from a dealer who will stand behind the product. Also will avoid shipping costs. Thanks to ukuslayer for that information, as I had not thought of Twin Cities as a source.
JMR posted 09-25-2009 12:04 AM ET (US)
LHG:
Below are some pictures and comments from my file. The pricing you mention sounds ball park. I have been on and off interested in a stern seat for my 27 but can't figure out whether to leave the space empty for fishing or to put in a big Frigid Rigid fiberglass chest (Web site at www.frigidrigid.com) with a cushion or put in an original stern seat. I have a working boat but I need new everything including new engines so I am in no hurry:
1. the full size stern seat is about 79 long x 20 deep x 25 high. On a 25 it fits tight, on a 27 it has a few inches on either side. I have picture of the full size seat which I measured on a 25 in one of the marinas in eastern Long Island [IMG]http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/gg138/jmr10023/Boat-25Rev-79x20x25.jpg[/IMG]
2. Mills can do this sort of work since they re-upholstered a seat for a Whaler 27 which I had nearly purchased. See the picture: [IMG]http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/gg138/jmr10023/Boat-Mills27SternSeat.jpg[/IMG]
Mills claims to have "Parchment" and dark brown piping if you want it. Mills is expensive with excellent reputation.
3. I have a picture of the lateral attachment rod on one of the smaller stern seats 72 x 20 x24. [IMG]http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/gg138/jmr10023/Boat-SternSeat-Revenge-Rear.jpg[/IMG]
4. I talked to Arts and they told me that the stainless supports were no longer made so they would have to rig something equivalent. This is may explain why Mills told you they cannot supply the legs.
Best
JMR posted 09-25-2009 12:24 AM ET (US)
LHG:
Mills recovered a 27 stern seat for a neighbor a few years ago and claim to have "parchment" and dark brown piping. They are expensive but with good reputation. See picture:
[IMG]http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/gg138/jmr10023/Boat-Mills27SternSeat.jpg[/IMG]
Art's told me that the stainless supports were no longer available so they would have to rig something equivalent.
You might look a the offerings at www.frigidrigid.com for fiberglass chests with cushions and sliding chock system which is in some ways more useful for fishing.
JMR posted 09-25-2009 12:27 AM ET (US)
LHG:
Sorry for the repetition but the first one didn't appear to have gone through and I thought it was too long.
L H G posted 09-25-2009 10:52 PM ET (US)
JMR - Thanks for the information and effort.
I have found out some new information, and I think I will order the seat through Twin Cities. Evindently, Art's was the original manufacturer for Whaler when the boats were being made in Boston. But with the move to Florida, they gave the specs to Dave's, to have them produced down there for boats manufactured in Edgewater, as mine was. Both seats were identical, but there is word that Art's no longer has the original material, nor SS framing.
Twin Cities deals with Dave and Tina's shop, who still makes a factory original seat, and has the material and the SS framing as needed. Delivery time is about 4-6 weeks, and cost is about $1550. Truck freight is extra. I am going to pick mine up directly from Dave, since I will be in the area.
When I get it installed, I'll post some photos.

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Author	Topic: Stern Seat sources
L H G	posted 09-17-2009 05:53 PM ET (US) I have finally been conviced by family and friends to add the "official Boston Whaler Stern Seat" with factory original tan pleat and piping design, to my second generation Outrage 25. I have seen many, and have been able to determine that there are 4 possible sources. I am wondering which one would be most recommended, and would appreciate any comments and testimonials, pro or con, and pricing indications. Since my boat is full transom, I would only need the U-shaped SS supports, not the back rail support also. Just information, no trashing please. I have found the following sources: 1. Art's (somewhere in MA) 2. Dave's (somewhere in FL) 3. Hall's Nautical 4. Mills Canvas. I have a quote from them already, at $1225, but they don't offer the support legs, and referred me to CMI. To the best of my knowledge, I have never seen s Mill's seat. Thanks
macfam	posted 09-17-2009 08:32 PM ET (US) Larry, I had a new stern seat re-built by Art's in Brockton, MA several years ago. Art, himself, took me into the back area to show me the wood bending jigs he still had, and his guys did an awesome job. Art claimed that all those originals came from his shop. Brockton is only about 15 miles from the old Rockland site. I wish I could remember the price, but he was also re-buiding the bolsters and a brand new helm cover.
themclos	posted 09-17-2009 10:42 PM ET (US) Larry, Though Art's made, and still makes, the "Official Boston Whaler Stern Seat", I am told they no longer have the original material. Mills Canvas does have the original material. I am looking for a stern seat for a 22 foot hull, and was advised by Jim Dunlop to speak with Art's and ask them how much material they would need, then order the material from Mills and provide it to Art's. In this way, you will get the seat which best matches the original. Jim Dunlop informed me that he ordered a seat for his 25 Revenge, and only realized Art's no longer uses the original material when he received the seat. Dan
L H G	posted 09-17-2009 10:50 PM ET (US) Am I correct that part of the material is smooth, and part pleated? I had heard that information from Jim also, but wonder if anybody has any more recent contact with Art's.
jimh	posted 09-18-2009 12:15 AM ET (US) Last weekend I was laying on my back at the back of the cockpit of my 1990 Boston Whaler REVENGE 22 W-T WD with original stern seat. I was wrestling with rigging some new lines through the rigging tunnel, and trying to avoid removing the stern seat. I looked up at the bottom of the stern seat and saw a label identifying the maker. I was very surprised it was none of the vendors mentioned above. Sorry, I did not jot down who the maker was, but when I get the boat back (perhaps as soon as this weekend) I will make a point of recording that label in a photograph.
ukuslayer	posted 09-18-2009 05:45 AM ET (US) LHG, I ordered mine from Sue at Twin Cities Marine, I'm sure you can find her number on the sight. She was great to work with and very helpful through the whole ordering process. Mine was for a 22' guardian but I'm sure ordering for a 25 would not be a problem. As for the quality of the seat it is great. Very well made and looks awesome on the boat. I was in the same boat as you, my wife said get me a seat or sell the boat. So I got a seat and also a Bimini top for shade and she loves it. Aloha Sean
outragesteve	posted 09-19-2009 04:21 PM ET (US) [Suggested taking this discussion to private email. Sorry, but the entire point of a public discusion is its public nature.]
Tom W Clark	posted 09-19-2009 05:07 PM ET (US) Yes, the stern seat uses both smooth and pleated parchment material. Both are still available. The factory installed stern seat in my 1988 Revenge 25 Walk Around was made by Art's Auto Seats and Canvas, Brockton, MA. The label is still there. Mine is pretty well worn after twenty years of use and I am considering a replacement. The seat must be supported laterally, even in a full transom model.
Tom W Clark	posted 09-19-2009 05:17 PM ET (US) There is a reasonably good photograph of the factory stern seat on page 15 of the 1987 Boston Whaler Options catalog and an even better photo of one on page 2 (inside cover) of the 1988 Boston Whaler catalog. These photos clearly show how the pleated and smooth fabric are used.
Chesapeake	posted 09-22-2009 07:41 PM ET (US) Larry: Dave's made me a new seat for the 19 last year. I have not yet dropped it in the boat and it is on a shelf in my garage. It is very well constructed and if you are up in Lake Forest, stop in for a beer and to check it out first hand. Might I suggest, however, that you have a local fabricator make your U frames. I am convinced that you can make a much stronger U piece that what is provided. For example, I'd make it from 1" tube, instead of 7/8. Additionally, I'd weld a plate on the U portion so that you could get a wider purchase distribution. In the classic design, two screws go through the tube and it can rock a little. It is a shame that Seabrite Stainless went out of business in this economy because they would have crafted something much better to my design. I imagine there is someone else up here in Chicago that does it.
Tom W Clark	posted 09-22-2009 08:07 PM ET (US) The stainless steel U frames are plenty strong but you have to understand what they are deigned to do. They support the seat's weight and the weight of any occupants. They also resist tipping forward or backward. The factory rail bases and 7/8" tubing is more than strong enough for this. But the U frames were never meant to resist any lateral motion. You MUST have additional hardware to secure the seat from moving side to side. This is what the stern rail is for and it does not take much to hold the seat laterally, but it must not move.
L H G	posted 09-23-2009 05:55 PM ET (US) Thanks to all for your information. In a stern seat installation I am familiar with, in a full transom 25 Revenge, the seat fits snugly across the width of the interior, and cannot move laterally, since in the stern the gunwales go all the way to the boat's floor. All that is used are the two u-shaped legs. Since it also is flush against the stern transom board (teak) there is no room for the back rail as is used in the cut transom models. So it appears all I will need is the seat and the two leg brackets. I pass by Twin Cities Marine several times a month, so I am going to see what Sue can do for me. I don't know who her vendor is, but it seems to make sense to get it from a dealer who will stand behind the product. Also will avoid shipping costs. Thanks to ukuslayer for that information, as I had not thought of Twin Cities as a source.
JMR	posted 09-25-2009 12:04 AM ET (US) LHG: Below are some pictures and comments from my file. The pricing you mention sounds ball park. I have been on and off interested in a stern seat for my 27 but can't figure out whether to leave the space empty for fishing or to put in a big Frigid Rigid fiberglass chest (Web site at www.frigidrigid.com) with a cushion or put in an original stern seat. I have a working boat but I need new everything including new engines so I am in no hurry: 1. the full size stern seat is about 79 long x 20 deep x 25 high. On a 25 it fits tight, on a 27 it has a few inches on either side. I have picture of the full size seat which I measured on a 25 in one of the marinas in eastern Long Island [IMG]http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/gg138/jmr10023/Boat-25Rev-79x20x25.jpg[/IMG] 2. Mills can do this sort of work since they re-upholstered a seat for a Whaler 27 which I had nearly purchased. See the picture: [IMG]http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/gg138/jmr10023/Boat-Mills27SternSeat.jpg[/IMG] Mills claims to have "Parchment" and dark brown piping if you want it. Mills is expensive with excellent reputation. 3. I have a picture of the lateral attachment rod on one of the smaller stern seats 72 x 20 x24. [IMG]http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/gg138/jmr10023/Boat-SternSeat-Revenge-Rear.jpg[/IMG] 4. I talked to Arts and they told me that the stainless supports were no longer made so they would have to rig something equivalent. This is may explain why Mills told you they cannot supply the legs. Best
JMR	posted 09-25-2009 12:24 AM ET (US) LHG: Mills recovered a 27 stern seat for a neighbor a few years ago and claim to have "parchment" and dark brown piping. They are expensive but with good reputation. See picture: [IMG]http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/gg138/jmr10023/Boat-Mills27SternSeat.jpg[/IMG] Art's told me that the stainless supports were no longer available so they would have to rig something equivalent. You might look a the offerings at www.frigidrigid.com for fiberglass chests with cushions and sliding chock system which is in some ways more useful for fishing.
JMR	posted 09-25-2009 12:27 AM ET (US) LHG: Sorry for the repetition but the first one didn't appear to have gone through and I thought it was too long.
L H G	posted 09-25-2009 10:52 PM ET (US) JMR - Thanks for the information and effort. I have found out some new information, and I think I will order the seat through Twin Cities. Evindently, Art's was the original manufacturer for Whaler when the boats were being made in Boston. But with the move to Florida, they gave the specs to Dave's, to have them produced down there for boats manufactured in Edgewater, as mine was. Both seats were identical, but there is word that Art's no longer has the original material, nor SS framing. Twin Cities deals with Dave and Tina's shop, who still makes a factory original seat, and has the material and the SS framing as needed. Delivery time is about 4-6 weeks, and cost is about $1550. Truck freight is extra. I am going to pick mine up directly from Dave, since I will be in the area. When I get it installed, I'll post some photos.