Git Rot - Moderated Discussion Areas

  ContinuousWave
  Whaler
  Moderated Discussion Areas
  ContinuousWave: Whaler Repairs/Mods
  Git Rot

search | FAQ | profile | register | author help

Author Topic:   Git Rot

fredbrillo posted 11-28-2009 08:34 AM ET (US)
I am mostly through with my project of turning my Super Sport 17 into a Montauk, a kind of Frankenstein adventure if you know what I mean. On removal of the last bit of the old Super Sport seating and the storage box, I found about about ten old screw holes in the deck that were hidden under the old seats. I [am] sure that over the years some water has gotten in there. I [am] not ready to tear the deck off and replace all that wood. Has anyone ever injected Git-Rot into deck screw holes in hopes that it will harden any rot that it finds and seal the holes?
I [am] wondering about the effect of the Git-Rot on the foam underlayment. I [have] searched this forum and can not find anything recent on this subject. I wonder if there are any other solutions? There are no soft spots, no signs of any detioration on the decks, [and I] just want to make sure it [is] sealed and any rot is stopped.
ConB posted 11-28-2009 09:25 AM ET (US)
Git Rot is liquid epoxy.
I would use a heat lamp to dry the holes in the deck. Then use a syringe to inject any liquid epoxy ( I use West System).
Then paint or gel-coat over the epoxy.
Con
jimh posted 11-28-2009 11:46 PM ET (US)
I thought that the rot which GIT ROT is supposed to stop is the rot in wood. I do not believe that foam has rot, although I suppose if foam has been saturated with water for a long time and allowed to cook it might produce some sort of bacterial decay.
fredbrillo posted 11-29-2009 08:42 AM ET (US)
I misspoke...what Im concerned with is rot to the underlayment plywood.
ConB posted 11-29-2009 01:18 PM ET (US)
Some times I make the hole a little larger to ease drying and squirting the West System in. Like a 1/4 of an inch or so.
We are Talking about a 17' hull not a bigger boat with the removable deck.
Con
fredbrillo posted 12-01-2009 09:14 AM ET (US)
Yep a 17 footer..I think thats a good idea...I ll drill em out a little to get that epoxy in there and dry them out with a hair dryer..
Stevebaz posted 12-01-2009 10:50 AM ET (US)
I have used Git Rot out side of marine application and it is very good stuff. It is an epoxy but different in that it is extremely thin so it wicks into the cellular structure of the wood and not just sit on top and cure a skin over the problem. It is really slow curing and allows the time for the resin to soak into the wood. It does what it says it does and resolidifys the rotted wood while sealing and block further rot in the wood it soaks into. In your case if the screw holes penetrate through the wood into the foam below if you inject the epoxy into the hole it will just go down into the foam and not be available to soak into the wood. If it were my boat and I truly wanted to try to make an honest attempt to stop the rot I would use a dual cartridge epoxy syringe with a mix tip and inject the holes with that to seal the through hole into the foam.
http://www.mcmaster.com/#epoxy-adhesives/=4qrapu
after the regular epoxy cures then I would drill the wood where you filled with epoxy with a much larger drill bit and drill only into the wood. I would now take some plumbers putty and make a ring around the hole so you make a dam full of Git Rot to have a small volume of resin with which to allow the wood to soak up as much as it can. A week after it is all cured I would grind down any offending resin and attempt a gel coat patch over the Git rot hoping for no amine blush issues. That is also why you want a larger bulge of resin on the surface from the putty dam. When done you will cut off all the blush surface.
Best of luck and let us know how it comes out for you.
Steve
Buckda posted 12-01-2009 11:19 AM ET (US)
I dunno guys, Fred hasn't indicated that there is definitely rot, just that he thinks there is rot.
The best idea is to overdrill the holes anyway for re-securing the interior components, so I think he should do that and look at the cuttings to determine if he has a problem.
If there's no problem with rotted wood, then just fill the larger hole with epoxy and re-drill a new pilot hole for the interior fasteners. I recommend that you drill and tap the hole and use machine screws so you can ensure you've kept water out of the interior - at least from those potential entry points.
fredbrillo posted 12-02-2009 11:46 AM ET (US)
Not being a betting man, I think Id put my money on there definitely being some rot there....the boat is 1984 model..the screw holes in the deck have been left unprotected for at least 7 years that I know of....OH..and the boat is used primarily in Salt Water in South Florida...My money is on the rot..
Tohsgib posted 12-02-2009 12:59 PM ET (US)
No soft spots, no rot....carry on.
Ridge Runner posted 12-02-2009 03:06 PM ET (US)
Saltwater typically "pickle's" the wood. freshwater is what crates rot.
64nauset posted 12-02-2009 05:01 PM ET (US)
CPES is better than git-rot in my opinion. It is easier to mix large/small quantities, has longer pot life, and penetrates better. http://www.smithandcompany.org/
Where rot is suspected under glass decking I have taken a 3” long finish nail, bent it 90 degrees, chucked it into a drill, worked the other end into the hole, spun the nail to break up the rot, and sucked out the broken up wood. If the broken up wood is damp, then a 50:50 alcohol/acetone mixture is injected into the hole which combines with whatever water it can find and evaporates out much faster than water alone. Water is strongly miscible with acetone. If acetone bothers one, straight stove alcohol can be used, but evaporates at a slower rate. Once the hole inside is dry (sniff test), it’s time to install some regular epoxy.
Penetrating epoxy (west and system three both have one now), will actually penetrate into wet wood, but with less structural integrity. This stuff uses what seems the most toxic voc’s imaginable, so stay away from the fumes. Mix up a batch and fill the holes full. After awhile it will percolate into the dry substrate and disappear. Continue filling the holes until it stops going away. The hard part is waiting for it to finally cure. In confined areas it can take weeks, sometimes months. Again, the sniff test will tell when it’s time to continue. After the penetrating epoxy has dried hard, the hole will be a hole again, since it is mostly voc with a little bit of resin mixed in. At this point regular epoxy resin is mixed with cabosil, or high density filler if area is subject to high cyclical loads. Inject this into the hole, and when cured it is solid as a rock because it is a rock. Drill to suit and install screw. Too small a pilot hole and plug will crack of course.
I’m betting that penetrating epoxy dissolves some composite materials. Put a few drops on plexi and it will soften it. Doesn’t affect fiberglass or gelcoat though. A call to cpes or West might get an answer about BW foam. Melting the foam would be counterproductive I think. If removing original screws from a boat, as a precautionary measure I always fill the holes with cpes before screwing back together. Can’t hurt, doesn’t cost much, tightens up the screws, and I sleep better. bruce
64nauset posted 12-02-2009 05:27 PM ET (US)
In paragraph two of the previous post, the last sentence should say "penetrating epoxy" instead of regular. Apologies for the confusion, if any. Good luck on the repair. bruce

Hop to:

Contact Us | RETURN to ContinuousWave Top Page

Powered by: Ultimate Bulletin Board, Freeware Version 2000
Purchase our Licensed Version- which adds many more features!
© Infopop Corporation (formerly Madrona Park, Inc.), 1998 - 2000.

Author	Topic: Git Rot
fredbrillo	posted 11-28-2009 08:34 AM ET (US) I am mostly through with my project of turning my Super Sport 17 into a Montauk, a kind of Frankenstein adventure if you know what I mean. On removal of the last bit of the old Super Sport seating and the storage box, I found about about ten old screw holes in the deck that were hidden under the old seats. I [am] sure that over the years some water has gotten in there. I [am] not ready to tear the deck off and replace all that wood. Has anyone ever injected Git-Rot into deck screw holes in hopes that it will harden any rot that it finds and seal the holes? I [am] wondering about the effect of the Git-Rot on the foam underlayment. I [have] searched this forum and can not find anything recent on this subject. I wonder if there are any other solutions? There are no soft spots, no signs of any detioration on the decks, [and I] just want to make sure it [is] sealed and any rot is stopped.
ConB	posted 11-28-2009 09:25 AM ET (US) Git Rot is liquid epoxy. I would use a heat lamp to dry the holes in the deck. Then use a syringe to inject any liquid epoxy ( I use West System). Then paint or gel-coat over the epoxy. Con
jimh	posted 11-28-2009 11:46 PM ET (US) I thought that the rot which GIT ROT is supposed to stop is the rot in wood. I do not believe that foam has rot, although I suppose if foam has been saturated with water for a long time and allowed to cook it might produce some sort of bacterial decay.
fredbrillo	posted 11-29-2009 08:42 AM ET (US) I misspoke...what Im concerned with is rot to the underlayment plywood.
ConB	posted 11-29-2009 01:18 PM ET (US) Some times I make the hole a little larger to ease drying and squirting the West System in. Like a 1/4 of an inch or so. We are Talking about a 17' hull not a bigger boat with the removable deck. Con
fredbrillo	posted 12-01-2009 09:14 AM ET (US) Yep a 17 footer..I think thats a good idea...I ll drill em out a little to get that epoxy in there and dry them out with a hair dryer..
Stevebaz	posted 12-01-2009 10:50 AM ET (US) I have used Git Rot out side of marine application and it is very good stuff. It is an epoxy but different in that it is extremely thin so it wicks into the cellular structure of the wood and not just sit on top and cure a skin over the problem. It is really slow curing and allows the time for the resin to soak into the wood. It does what it says it does and resolidifys the rotted wood while sealing and block further rot in the wood it soaks into. In your case if the screw holes penetrate through the wood into the foam below if you inject the epoxy into the hole it will just go down into the foam and not be available to soak into the wood. If it were my boat and I truly wanted to try to make an honest attempt to stop the rot I would use a dual cartridge epoxy syringe with a mix tip and inject the holes with that to seal the through hole into the foam. http://www.mcmaster.com/#epoxy-adhesives/=4qrapu after the regular epoxy cures then I would drill the wood where you filled with epoxy with a much larger drill bit and drill only into the wood. I would now take some plumbers putty and make a ring around the hole so you make a dam full of Git Rot to have a small volume of resin with which to allow the wood to soak up as much as it can. A week after it is all cured I would grind down any offending resin and attempt a gel coat patch over the Git rot hoping for no amine blush issues. That is also why you want a larger bulge of resin on the surface from the putty dam. When done you will cut off all the blush surface. Best of luck and let us know how it comes out for you. Steve
Buckda	posted 12-01-2009 11:19 AM ET (US) I dunno guys, Fred hasn't indicated that there is definitely rot, just that he thinks there is rot. The best idea is to overdrill the holes anyway for re-securing the interior components, so I think he should do that and look at the cuttings to determine if he has a problem. If there's no problem with rotted wood, then just fill the larger hole with epoxy and re-drill a new pilot hole for the interior fasteners. I recommend that you drill and tap the hole and use machine screws so you can ensure you've kept water out of the interior - at least from those potential entry points.
fredbrillo	posted 12-02-2009 11:46 AM ET (US) Not being a betting man, I think Id put my money on there definitely being some rot there....the boat is 1984 model..the screw holes in the deck have been left unprotected for at least 7 years that I know of....OH..and the boat is used primarily in Salt Water in South Florida...My money is on the rot..
Tohsgib	posted 12-02-2009 12:59 PM ET (US) No soft spots, no rot....carry on.
Ridge Runner	posted 12-02-2009 03:06 PM ET (US) Saltwater typically "pickle's" the wood. freshwater is what crates rot.
64nauset	posted 12-02-2009 05:01 PM ET (US) CPES is better than git-rot in my opinion. It is easier to mix large/small quantities, has longer pot life, and penetrates better. http://www.smithandcompany.org/ Where rot is suspected under glass decking I have taken a 3” long finish nail, bent it 90 degrees, chucked it into a drill, worked the other end into the hole, spun the nail to break up the rot, and sucked out the broken up wood. If the broken up wood is damp, then a 50:50 alcohol/acetone mixture is injected into the hole which combines with whatever water it can find and evaporates out much faster than water alone. Water is strongly miscible with acetone. If acetone bothers one, straight stove alcohol can be used, but evaporates at a slower rate. Once the hole inside is dry (sniff test), it’s time to install some regular epoxy. Penetrating epoxy (west and system three both have one now), will actually penetrate into wet wood, but with less structural integrity. This stuff uses what seems the most toxic voc’s imaginable, so stay away from the fumes. Mix up a batch and fill the holes full. After awhile it will percolate into the dry substrate and disappear. Continue filling the holes until it stops going away. The hard part is waiting for it to finally cure. In confined areas it can take weeks, sometimes months. Again, the sniff test will tell when it’s time to continue. After the penetrating epoxy has dried hard, the hole will be a hole again, since it is mostly voc with a little bit of resin mixed in. At this point regular epoxy resin is mixed with cabosil, or high density filler if area is subject to high cyclical loads. Inject this into the hole, and when cured it is solid as a rock because it is a rock. Drill to suit and install screw. Too small a pilot hole and plug will crack of course. I’m betting that penetrating epoxy dissolves some composite materials. Put a few drops on plexi and it will soften it. Doesn’t affect fiberglass or gelcoat though. A call to cpes or West might get an answer about BW foam. Melting the foam would be counterproductive I think. If removing original screws from a boat, as a precautionary measure I always fill the holes with cpes before screwing back together. Can’t hurt, doesn’t cost much, tightens up the screws, and I sleep better. bruce
64nauset	posted 12-02-2009 05:27 PM ET (US) In paragraph two of the previous post, the last sentence should say "penetrating epoxy" instead of regular. Apologies for the confusion, if any. Good luck on the repair. bruce