Drain in fuel tank cavity for 1973 Outrage 19

  ContinuousWave
  Whaler
  Moderated Discussion Areas
  ContinuousWave: Whaler Repairs/Mods
  Drain in fuel tank cavity for 1973 Outrage 19

search | FAQ | profile | register | author help

Author Topic:   Drain in fuel tank cavity for 1973 Outrage 19

Raaaaay posted 05-21-2010 02:46 AM ET (US)
I have read just about every posting on the topic of installing a drain in the gas tank cavity of a 1970's Outrage 19 but I still cant make my mind up as to what to do.
The main problem as I see it is that fuel tank cavity is lower/deeper than the sump located to the starboard side of the cavity.
Lots of people have tried different methods of trying to keep the tank cavity dry or draining any water that may have gotten into the cavity.
Lets have this discussion one more time and all comments would be appreciated. I have a new tank ready to be installed and I feel that I would like to install a drain of some sorts in the cavity.
Details and pics of tank cavity drains would be appreciated.
seahorse posted 05-21-2010 06:33 AM ET (US)
There is a Federal regulation that does not allow any type of drain fitting in a permanently installed gasoline tank. There also may be something about that in the ABYC accepted practices.
I don't have the regulation number at the moment so see the exact wording or if there are any exemptions. It would be in part 183 of the Code of Federal Regulations.
Raaaaay posted 05-21-2010 12:51 PM ET (US)

This is a hypothetical question of course!
Tom W Clark posted 05-21-2010 12:57 PM ET (US)
I believe Raaaay is talking about the portion of the hull molded to accommodate the fuel tank, not the fuel tank itself.
On the boat, I'd install a withdrawal tube to the lowest part of the cavity and then use a hand pump to keep it clear, like the floats on a float plane.
dfmcintyre posted 05-21-2010 01:16 PM ET (US)
I'd second Toms suggestion. I installed a fuel tank sump drain in my 21', but the aft bilge is lower.
Probably just a length of flex tube of some sort, with enough length on it to allow for the hookup of a hand pump would work just fine. Use hose mount clamps to attach it to the walls of the cavity.
Regards - Don
anthonylisske posted 05-21-2010 08:57 PM ET (US)
I installed a access plate in my tank cover to allow me to put a hose attched to a pump to the lowest part of the tank cavity. Long story short, I hated it. I would be pumping like a madman and the tank still stunk and always left some filthy (I mean absolute skunk water) in the cavity.
2 years later, I pulled the tank and put a brass drain tube between the tank cavity and the bilge in the rear. BTW, it is not lower, but rather the same level. (atleast on 1973 smoothside outrage 21)
I plugged it with the typical drain tube plug on the bilge side.
I typically (flush) the tank with fresh water by sticking a hose in the top access plate with the plug open and flushing it until it is squeky clean.
I might have some photos.
Good luck
sraab928 posted 05-22-2010 07:07 AM ET (US)
I created this sump at the rear of my fuel tank cavity.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v472/sraab928/ 1973%20Boston%20Whaler%2019%20Outrage/20090527_1120.jpg
I then ran two hoses (in case one clogs) through the side wall of the fuel tank cavity into the rear sump area of the boat(the one where the rigging tunnel is located). They have brass fittings with plugs in them mounted in that wall. I picked up a 12v utility pump for $15 on sale at harbor freight. It can be hooked up to empty the cavity periodically.
I don't have any updated pics of that yet so I hope I explained correctly.
anthonylisske posted 05-22-2010 12:03 PM ET (US)
Wow. I will give you credit for having *alls of steel to cut up your tank cavity like that. Looks great.
And I was sitting here thinking I was radical putting a silly little brass tube into the bilge! Lol
contender posted 05-22-2010 05:36 PM ET (US)
You can fill in the bottom of the fuel cavity with fiberglass until it is even with the bilge area then have/make a center trough to the bilge area. Problem is you will have to put in a smaller(thinner)fuel tank. Sraab928 idea is not bad either, but I would build the tank shorter and just put a bilge pump in the hole, and have an access panel(deck plate)on deck to service the pump, but you still have to have a smaller(shorter) gas tank.
sraab928 posted 05-22-2010 08:28 PM ET (US)
On the 19 there is no bilge area in the back like there is on a 21.
sraab928 posted 05-22-2010 08:30 PM ET (US)
Gotta have em to take the cap off too...lol
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v472/sraab928/ 1973%20Boston%20Whaler%2019%20Outrage/20090527_1123-1.jpg
Raaaaay posted 05-22-2010 09:09 PM ET (US)
Keep the ideas and suggestions coming.
I am hoping for a simple solution...but I guess there really isnt the perfect or simple solution.
I have a few days to work on this as on Wednesday the boat goes to my "painter". I will start another discussion on this and I have tons of things to consider in the rehab, but this is going to come together fast.
dino54904 posted 05-26-2010 09:20 AM ET (US)
This is what I did in my 1973 Whaler 19 (Outrage). I used a 6" hole saw and cut through the inside skin of the fiberglass in the aft most portion of the fuel tank cavity. Then I removed all the foam core and laid a few extra layers of fiberglass cloth on the inside of the hull skin to make it thicker. I used fiberglass matte and West System epoxy to seal the sides of this 6" hole and then I installed a garboard drain plug in the center of that hole with the plug being able to be removed from the outside of the bottom of the hull. This gave me an inner recepticle for the water to collect and a way to drain water if it does manage to seep into the fuel tank cavity. In the winter I remove the plug and open the cockpit floor hatch to get some air flowing through the fuel tank cavity. Has worked fine thus far (5 years).
dfmcintyre posted 05-26-2010 12:50 PM ET (US)
How much water does it seem to collect over a season?
Raaaaay posted 05-26-2010 05:02 PM ET (US)
Dino...do you have any pics of your drain and tank cavity.
anthonylisske posted 05-26-2010 05:57 PM ET (US)
Dino,
That set up sounds perfect for a through hull transducer
Murphy posted 05-26-2010 08:52 PM ET (US)
I also have aq 1973 19' Whaler. I replaced the fuel tank, got rid of all of the foam, created enough air around the tank for drying and then installed a bilge pump in the back of the cavity. I cut a 2" hole in the side next to the sump drain and ran the hose through that hole out to the rear of the boat. It works like a charm.
RM
Tonym posted 06-05-2010 09:19 PM ET (US)
Raaaaay,
This was my solution. I have a 19 foot Rigid Raider. I wanted to keep the tank area and the utility channel as dry as possible plus I wanted to install a live bait pump and through hull transducer. I cut a bilge area out and glassed it to shape. I took a hole saw and made a space for an access to the bottom of the utility channel and glassed a fiberglass tube to it. I filled any voids with 2 part foam and glassed it. I installed a one inch pvc tube to the bottom of the tank well and exited it to the bilge. We gave it all 4 coats of Interlux “Interprotect 2000” and finished with 3 coats of Interlux “Bilge cote”. We then installed a seacock, bait pump, thru hull transducer and a rule automatic bilge. All the electrical goes through the tube and into the utility channel then into the center console. The bilge tube and bait hose also goes through the tube then up to the starboard side to their destination. We installed a plate made of divine cell and epoxy laminate and for access to the bilge we put an Armstrong deck plate in the middle of the laminate.
For our purposes it works just fine. Tonym

http://s4.photobucket.com/albums/y113/Tonybccablemas/ Bilge%20Construction/
dino54904 posted 06-07-2010 09:49 AM ET (US)
I unfortunatly do not have any pictures of that installation and it's pretty barried now. Sorry.
So far. the fuel cavity has nver collected any water. I keep the boat on a trailer in an enclosed storage locker so it does not get rained on or get wet often. That is why it never has water in my home made 'sump'. It hardly ever gets wet.
I thought about that same installation for a transducer under the console but the water flow when running at speed would be too disruptive for accurate or constant depth readings. The most quiet place on the boat for water flow while running is at the back of the transom.
Dino
youngilbert posted 07-20-2010 12:46 PM ET (US)
I have a 79 outrage 20 with a "soft decks" situation on either side of the removable cover for the fuel tank. There is so much water under the deck i can hear it squish when i walk on it. I'm considering cutting holes in this area & removing saturated foam & replacing with new foam with a stub out drain hose so that I can use a hand bilge pump to periodically get the water out. then installing deck plates to finish the job. In theory , shouldn't the water in this area and around tank flush out through the sump on the starboard side when accelerating the boat in the water?
Raaaaay posted 08-08-2010 05:25 PM ET (US)
Is there any problem with drilling a hole straight back at the lowest part of the fuel tank cavity into the live well. Installing a length of PVC pipe would be easy with the tank out. Of course I would put a plug in the pipe at the livewell side of the pipe when underway. It appears that the bottom of the live well is at the same level as the bottom of the tank cavity.
I have picked up a Beckson cover that I a thinking about installing at the back of the tank deck cover to give some additonal ventilation when the boat is parked on the trailer.
With this setup, there would be the existing forward Beckson cover over the fuel sending unit, and my newly installed rear Beckson cover for ventilation, and the rear drain to carry out any excess water.
I really dont want to install a pump or have to do any fiberglass work by creating another sump in the cavity. I would rather let gravity and our dry southern California climate do the job of keeping the tank cavity dry.
Sounds simple enough to me....I just need to drill a slightly longer hole to go through to the live well then install a tube...and then cut a larger hole in the deck cover for the Beckson cover (I already have a large hole saw for this purpose).
Raaaaay posted 02-07-2011 01:35 PM ET (US)
Does anyone have any feedback on my latest idea of installing a drain straight back from the fuel tank cavity into the live well. I could then install a pvc or brass thru-hull type of drain and just let gravity do its job.
adlert posted 02-07-2011 03:04 PM ET (US)
Thanks for bringing this up again Raaaaay. Your idea seems simple and straight forward enough. Then again, so does Tom's suggestion of simply installing a lift tube. Assuming that draining is an infrequent job, I'd think the lift tube would work just fine, be the easiest approach, and the least invasive.
One thought I have with draining into the "live well" is that if indeed you actually use that well as a live well (I hope to rig mine up so that I can), you run the risk of putting some funky stuff in there that may have to be cleaned out afterwards in order to be able keep fish healthy. I suppose it would be too bad, just a scum line between your input tube and the livewell's drain.
adlert posted 02-07-2011 05:43 PM ET (US)
Make that "would NOT be so bad..."

Hop to:

Contact Us | RETURN to ContinuousWave Top Page

Powered by: Ultimate Bulletin Board, Freeware Version 2000
Purchase our Licensed Version- which adds many more features!
© Infopop Corporation (formerly Madrona Park, Inc.), 1998 - 2000.

Author	Topic: Drain in fuel tank cavity for 1973 Outrage 19
Raaaaay	posted 05-21-2010 02:46 AM ET (US) I have read just about every posting on the topic of installing a drain in the gas tank cavity of a 1970's Outrage 19 but I still cant make my mind up as to what to do. The main problem as I see it is that fuel tank cavity is lower/deeper than the sump located to the starboard side of the cavity. Lots of people have tried different methods of trying to keep the tank cavity dry or draining any water that may have gotten into the cavity. Lets have this discussion one more time and all comments would be appreciated. I have a new tank ready to be installed and I feel that I would like to install a drain of some sorts in the cavity. Details and pics of tank cavity drains would be appreciated.
seahorse	posted 05-21-2010 06:33 AM ET (US) There is a Federal regulation that does not allow any type of drain fitting in a permanently installed gasoline tank. There also may be something about that in the ABYC accepted practices. I don't have the regulation number at the moment so see the exact wording or if there are any exemptions. It would be in part 183 of the Code of Federal Regulations.
Raaaaay	posted 05-21-2010 12:51 PM ET (US) This is a hypothetical question of course!
Tom W Clark	posted 05-21-2010 12:57 PM ET (US) I believe Raaaay is talking about the portion of the hull molded to accommodate the fuel tank, not the fuel tank itself. On the boat, I'd install a withdrawal tube to the lowest part of the cavity and then use a hand pump to keep it clear, like the floats on a float plane.
dfmcintyre	posted 05-21-2010 01:16 PM ET (US) I'd second Toms suggestion. I installed a fuel tank sump drain in my 21', but the aft bilge is lower. Probably just a length of flex tube of some sort, with enough length on it to allow for the hookup of a hand pump would work just fine. Use hose mount clamps to attach it to the walls of the cavity. Regards - Don
anthonylisske	posted 05-21-2010 08:57 PM ET (US) I installed a access plate in my tank cover to allow me to put a hose attched to a pump to the lowest part of the tank cavity. Long story short, I hated it. I would be pumping like a madman and the tank still stunk and always left some filthy (I mean absolute skunk water) in the cavity. 2 years later, I pulled the tank and put a brass drain tube between the tank cavity and the bilge in the rear. BTW, it is not lower, but rather the same level. (atleast on 1973 smoothside outrage 21) I plugged it with the typical drain tube plug on the bilge side. I typically (flush) the tank with fresh water by sticking a hose in the top access plate with the plug open and flushing it until it is squeky clean. I might have some photos. Good luck
sraab928	posted 05-22-2010 07:07 AM ET (US) I created this sump at the rear of my fuel tank cavity. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v472/sraab928/ 1973%20Boston%20Whaler%2019%20Outrage/20090527_1120.jpg I then ran two hoses (in case one clogs) through the side wall of the fuel tank cavity into the rear sump area of the boat(the one where the rigging tunnel is located). They have brass fittings with plugs in them mounted in that wall. I picked up a 12v utility pump for $15 on sale at harbor freight. It can be hooked up to empty the cavity periodically. I don't have any updated pics of that yet so I hope I explained correctly.
anthonylisske	posted 05-22-2010 12:03 PM ET (US) Wow. I will give you credit for having *alls of steel to cut up your tank cavity like that. Looks great. And I was sitting here thinking I was radical putting a silly little brass tube into the bilge! Lol
contender	posted 05-22-2010 05:36 PM ET (US) You can fill in the bottom of the fuel cavity with fiberglass until it is even with the bilge area then have/make a center trough to the bilge area. Problem is you will have to put in a smaller(thinner)fuel tank. Sraab928 idea is not bad either, but I would build the tank shorter and just put a bilge pump in the hole, and have an access panel(deck plate)on deck to service the pump, but you still have to have a smaller(shorter) gas tank.
sraab928	posted 05-22-2010 08:28 PM ET (US) On the 19 there is no bilge area in the back like there is on a 21.
sraab928	posted 05-22-2010 08:30 PM ET (US) Gotta have em to take the cap off too...lol http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v472/sraab928/ 1973%20Boston%20Whaler%2019%20Outrage/20090527_1123-1.jpg
Raaaaay	posted 05-22-2010 09:09 PM ET (US) Keep the ideas and suggestions coming. I am hoping for a simple solution...but I guess there really isnt the perfect or simple solution. I have a few days to work on this as on Wednesday the boat goes to my "painter". I will start another discussion on this and I have tons of things to consider in the rehab, but this is going to come together fast.
dino54904	posted 05-26-2010 09:20 AM ET (US) This is what I did in my 1973 Whaler 19 (Outrage). I used a 6" hole saw and cut through the inside skin of the fiberglass in the aft most portion of the fuel tank cavity. Then I removed all the foam core and laid a few extra layers of fiberglass cloth on the inside of the hull skin to make it thicker. I used fiberglass matte and West System epoxy to seal the sides of this 6" hole and then I installed a garboard drain plug in the center of that hole with the plug being able to be removed from the outside of the bottom of the hull. This gave me an inner recepticle for the water to collect and a way to drain water if it does manage to seep into the fuel tank cavity. In the winter I remove the plug and open the cockpit floor hatch to get some air flowing through the fuel tank cavity. Has worked fine thus far (5 years).
dfmcintyre	posted 05-26-2010 12:50 PM ET (US) How much water does it seem to collect over a season?
Raaaaay	posted 05-26-2010 05:02 PM ET (US) Dino...do you have any pics of your drain and tank cavity.
anthonylisske	posted 05-26-2010 05:57 PM ET (US) Dino, That set up sounds perfect for a through hull transducer
Murphy	posted 05-26-2010 08:52 PM ET (US) I also have aq 1973 19' Whaler. I replaced the fuel tank, got rid of all of the foam, created enough air around the tank for drying and then installed a bilge pump in the back of the cavity. I cut a 2" hole in the side next to the sump drain and ran the hose through that hole out to the rear of the boat. It works like a charm. RM
Tonym	posted 06-05-2010 09:19 PM ET (US) Raaaaay, This was my solution. I have a 19 foot Rigid Raider. I wanted to keep the tank area and the utility channel as dry as possible plus I wanted to install a live bait pump and through hull transducer. I cut a bilge area out and glassed it to shape. I took a hole saw and made a space for an access to the bottom of the utility channel and glassed a fiberglass tube to it. I filled any voids with 2 part foam and glassed it. I installed a one inch pvc tube to the bottom of the tank well and exited it to the bilge. We gave it all 4 coats of Interlux “Interprotect 2000” and finished with 3 coats of Interlux “Bilge cote”. We then installed a seacock, bait pump, thru hull transducer and a rule automatic bilge. All the electrical goes through the tube and into the utility channel then into the center console. The bilge tube and bait hose also goes through the tube then up to the starboard side to their destination. We installed a plate made of divine cell and epoxy laminate and for access to the bilge we put an Armstrong deck plate in the middle of the laminate. For our purposes it works just fine. Tonym http://s4.photobucket.com/albums/y113/Tonybccablemas/ Bilge%20Construction/
dino54904	posted 06-07-2010 09:49 AM ET (US) I unfortunatly do not have any pictures of that installation and it's pretty barried now. Sorry. So far. the fuel cavity has nver collected any water. I keep the boat on a trailer in an enclosed storage locker so it does not get rained on or get wet often. That is why it never has water in my home made 'sump'. It hardly ever gets wet. I thought about that same installation for a transducer under the console but the water flow when running at speed would be too disruptive for accurate or constant depth readings. The most quiet place on the boat for water flow while running is at the back of the transom. Dino
youngilbert	posted 07-20-2010 12:46 PM ET (US) I have a 79 outrage 20 with a "soft decks" situation on either side of the removable cover for the fuel tank. There is so much water under the deck i can hear it squish when i walk on it. I'm considering cutting holes in this area & removing saturated foam & replacing with new foam with a stub out drain hose so that I can use a hand bilge pump to periodically get the water out. then installing deck plates to finish the job. In theory , shouldn't the water in this area and around tank flush out through the sump on the starboard side when accelerating the boat in the water?
Raaaaay	posted 08-08-2010 05:25 PM ET (US) Is there any problem with drilling a hole straight back at the lowest part of the fuel tank cavity into the live well. Installing a length of PVC pipe would be easy with the tank out. Of course I would put a plug in the pipe at the livewell side of the pipe when underway. It appears that the bottom of the live well is at the same level as the bottom of the tank cavity. I have picked up a Beckson cover that I a thinking about installing at the back of the tank deck cover to give some additonal ventilation when the boat is parked on the trailer. With this setup, there would be the existing forward Beckson cover over the fuel sending unit, and my newly installed rear Beckson cover for ventilation, and the rear drain to carry out any excess water. I really dont want to install a pump or have to do any fiberglass work by creating another sump in the cavity. I would rather let gravity and our dry southern California climate do the job of keeping the tank cavity dry. Sounds simple enough to me....I just need to drill a slightly longer hole to go through to the live well then install a tube...and then cut a larger hole in the deck cover for the Beckson cover (I already have a large hole saw for this purpose).
Raaaaay	posted 02-07-2011 01:35 PM ET (US) Does anyone have any feedback on my latest idea of installing a drain straight back from the fuel tank cavity into the live well. I could then install a pvc or brass thru-hull type of drain and just let gravity do its job.
adlert	posted 02-07-2011 03:04 PM ET (US) Thanks for bringing this up again Raaaaay. Your idea seems simple and straight forward enough. Then again, so does Tom's suggestion of simply installing a lift tube. Assuming that draining is an infrequent job, I'd think the lift tube would work just fine, be the easiest approach, and the least invasive. One thought I have with draining into the "live well" is that if indeed you actually use that well as a live well (I hope to rig mine up so that I can), you run the risk of putting some funky stuff in there that may have to be cleaned out afterwards in order to be able keep fish healthy. I suppose it would be too bad, just a scum line between your input tube and the livewell's drain.
adlert	posted 02-07-2011 05:43 PM ET (US) Make that "would NOT be so bad..."