1980s Outrage - gunwale attachment for watersports/radar arch

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Author Topic:   1980s Outrage - gunwale attachment for watersports/radar arch

russellbailey posted 11-07-2010 04:34 PM ET (US)
My first winter project will be trim tabs, but I'm evaluating this potential project also.
I have a standard 1984 Outrage 25 with wood gunwales and twin engines. We use it a lot for watersports, and I'm not pleased with using a bridle - being low is ok but not great, but it is really the twin engines that I find does not let it work well. I have considered a Turboswing at about $1000 for a dual engine setup. I've never pulled a tube and would plan to just pull those from the stern eye or a thick stainless bar that I have between the two jackplates. I pull skis/wakeboards/kneeboards.
I am also considering a radar arch with a tow fitting - this would have side benefits of a good place for the all-around light, extra area for rod holders, and a place to strap waterskis and such to keep them off the floor (we are often out with 6-9 people). Atlantic Towers makes one - as a company their work seems well respected. I am sure they can make an arch that will be adequately strong for pulling a couple of skiers. What I am not sure about is whether or not the gunwales on the Outrage can take that load.
I am not concerned about the strength of the wood itself - with a backing plate I think the wood would have more than adequate strength. What I am more curious about is if the gunwales are sufficiently attached to the hull to carry the load.
If you have installed an arch that you use for towing on your Outrage, I'd like to hear about your experience. I also welcome input on if I need to be concerned about the strength of the gunwale attachment to the hull.
Thanks,
Russell
Buckda posted 11-08-2010 09:29 AM ET (US)
Hi Russell -
I hope I can help just a little.
I foolishly attempted to free a VERY stuck anchor by attaching the line to my midship cleat. That cleat was fastened to the wood gunwaly on my 18' Outrage and included a backing plate.
The boat nearly capsized, but as the flotation rebounded the hull after I cut the throttle, the wood gunwale board split.
Also, with just a radar arch, I ended up adding several new countersunk and plugged screws attaching the forward portion of the gunwale board to the hull. I did this because after some very heavy seas, the very forward portion of the board started "flopping" as the force of just the arch (with antennas, lights and rods) was causing the forward screw to loosen.
(The anchor incident happened after the reinforcement with additional screws).
I would say that you should consider drilling and adding new screws to beef up the connection if you wish to attempt this.
Personally, I would not attempt it.
I hope you get additional feedback, but I believe this would be a somewhat unique modification to an Outrage 25.
Dave
russellbailey posted 11-08-2010 10:43 AM ET (US)
Thanks Buckda - I appreciate hearing about your experience with it.
martyn1075 posted 11-18-2010 11:09 PM ET (US)
I have done business with Atlantic towers and was happy with their product and service. Ask or Shelly she is great and is quite aware of the Boston Whaler brand and models including the classic ones dating way back. Chances are they already have a few different examples fabricated for your model. I think they work with aluminum only so if stainless is what your after I would check first to know of sure.
russellbailey posted 01-25-2011 03:04 PM ET (US)
I talked with a couple of places about this and the general feedback was that the gunwale should be strong enough - the maximum load is whatever force a skier can exert via holding on times the leverage provided by the extension - I don't think it would be much at all compared to a stuck anchor.
I was thinking of a fairly easy way to stengthen the connection. Underneath the gunwale, instead of a backing plate, I think you could instead use a backing "angle" - I don't think a 90 degree angle would work, but instead would likely need a custom angle. The vertical part of the angle could then be through-bolted to the outside of the hull, sort of like the reinforcement Whaler put on the aluminum gunwales. I'd think if the backing angle was perhaps 16-24" long with 4 or 5 throughbolts that it would greatly strengthen the connection.
I think this could be done without really lessening the future value of the boat, as I could have the arch done like a fishing/radar arch but simply with a tow point added.
Russ 13 posted 01-25-2011 03:26 PM ET (US)
I have a project 22' Outrage, that I would like to add an arch to also. To mount a bimini top, close in design to what Scarab & Concept use. Let me know how your idea turns out.
L H G posted 01-25-2011 03:58 PM ET (US)
Russell. as you know I have a radar arch on mine, and I would not use something like that for towing a skier.
Here is mine:
http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v429/lgoltz/Outrage%2025/?action=view& current=Scan0017.jpg
I think you are being given bad advice, and I also do not think Atalnatic Towers is a high quality product from what I have seen. Nor do I like the idea of through bolting gusset plates through the sides of the Outrage hull, which will compress. Bolt heads and washers on the outside of the hull? Not for me!
My arch has turned out to be a substantial addition, and with no problems, even when carrying the 18' Lee outriggers when I used to fish. But towing a skier or tube is a completely different set of stress factors, and I don't think the Whaler teak gunwlaes will hold up to that kind of loading.
I would use one of those center mounted vertical ski poles in the vicinity of the splashwell dam, re-inforced back to the transom. You might check the Whaler accessory books, as I have seen that option on some of the models, like the 18 GTX. See how they did it.
Whalrman posted 01-27-2011 05:21 PM ET (US)
Hi, I would contact Mr. Bennett at whaler to see what there engineers came up with as a height for the "tow point" above the deck or gun'le for your hull. The higher you go ,the more weight the fixture encounters and stability is another concern. An interesting probblem to solve, let us know what you end up doing.

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Author	Topic: 1980s Outrage - gunwale attachment for watersports/radar arch
russellbailey	posted 11-07-2010 04:34 PM ET (US) My first winter project will be trim tabs, but I'm evaluating this potential project also. I have a standard 1984 Outrage 25 with wood gunwales and twin engines. We use it a lot for watersports, and I'm not pleased with using a bridle - being low is ok but not great, but it is really the twin engines that I find does not let it work well. I have considered a Turboswing at about $1000 for a dual engine setup. I've never pulled a tube and would plan to just pull those from the stern eye or a thick stainless bar that I have between the two jackplates. I pull skis/wakeboards/kneeboards. I am also considering a radar arch with a tow fitting - this would have side benefits of a good place for the all-around light, extra area for rod holders, and a place to strap waterskis and such to keep them off the floor (we are often out with 6-9 people). Atlantic Towers makes one - as a company their work seems well respected. I am sure they can make an arch that will be adequately strong for pulling a couple of skiers. What I am not sure about is whether or not the gunwales on the Outrage can take that load. I am not concerned about the strength of the wood itself - with a backing plate I think the wood would have more than adequate strength. What I am more curious about is if the gunwales are sufficiently attached to the hull to carry the load. If you have installed an arch that you use for towing on your Outrage, I'd like to hear about your experience. I also welcome input on if I need to be concerned about the strength of the gunwale attachment to the hull. Thanks, Russell
Buckda	posted 11-08-2010 09:29 AM ET (US) Hi Russell - I hope I can help just a little. I foolishly attempted to free a VERY stuck anchor by attaching the line to my midship cleat. That cleat was fastened to the wood gunwaly on my 18' Outrage and included a backing plate. The boat nearly capsized, but as the flotation rebounded the hull after I cut the throttle, the wood gunwale board split. Also, with just a radar arch, I ended up adding several new countersunk and plugged screws attaching the forward portion of the gunwale board to the hull. I did this because after some very heavy seas, the very forward portion of the board started "flopping" as the force of just the arch (with antennas, lights and rods) was causing the forward screw to loosen. (The anchor incident happened after the reinforcement with additional screws). I would say that you should consider drilling and adding new screws to beef up the connection if you wish to attempt this. Personally, I would not attempt it. I hope you get additional feedback, but I believe this would be a somewhat unique modification to an Outrage 25. Dave
russellbailey	posted 11-08-2010 10:43 AM ET (US) Thanks Buckda - I appreciate hearing about your experience with it.
martyn1075	posted 11-18-2010 11:09 PM ET (US) I have done business with Atlantic towers and was happy with their product and service. Ask or Shelly she is great and is quite aware of the Boston Whaler brand and models including the classic ones dating way back. Chances are they already have a few different examples fabricated for your model. I think they work with aluminum only so if stainless is what your after I would check first to know of sure.
russellbailey	posted 01-25-2011 03:04 PM ET (US) I talked with a couple of places about this and the general feedback was that the gunwale should be strong enough - the maximum load is whatever force a skier can exert via holding on times the leverage provided by the extension - I don't think it would be much at all compared to a stuck anchor. I was thinking of a fairly easy way to stengthen the connection. Underneath the gunwale, instead of a backing plate, I think you could instead use a backing "angle" - I don't think a 90 degree angle would work, but instead would likely need a custom angle. The vertical part of the angle could then be through-bolted to the outside of the hull, sort of like the reinforcement Whaler put on the aluminum gunwales. I'd think if the backing angle was perhaps 16-24" long with 4 or 5 throughbolts that it would greatly strengthen the connection. I think this could be done without really lessening the future value of the boat, as I could have the arch done like a fishing/radar arch but simply with a tow point added.
Russ 13	posted 01-25-2011 03:26 PM ET (US) I have a project 22' Outrage, that I would like to add an arch to also. To mount a bimini top, close in design to what Scarab & Concept use. Let me know how your idea turns out.
L H G	posted 01-25-2011 03:58 PM ET (US) Russell. as you know I have a radar arch on mine, and I would not use something like that for towing a skier. Here is mine: http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v429/lgoltz/Outrage%2025/?action=view& current=Scan0017.jpg I think you are being given bad advice, and I also do not think Atalnatic Towers is a high quality product from what I have seen. Nor do I like the idea of through bolting gusset plates through the sides of the Outrage hull, which will compress. Bolt heads and washers on the outside of the hull? Not for me! My arch has turned out to be a substantial addition, and with no problems, even when carrying the 18' Lee outriggers when I used to fish. But towing a skier or tube is a completely different set of stress factors, and I don't think the Whaler teak gunwlaes will hold up to that kind of loading. I would use one of those center mounted vertical ski poles in the vicinity of the splashwell dam, re-inforced back to the transom. You might check the Whaler accessory books, as I have seen that option on some of the models, like the 18 GTX. See how they did it.
Whalrman	posted 01-27-2011 05:21 PM ET (US) Hi, I would contact Mr. Bennett at whaler to see what there engineers came up with as a height for the "tow point" above the deck or gun'le for your hull. The higher you go ,the more weight the fixture encounters and stability is another concern. An interesting probblem to solve, let us know what you end up doing.