Replacing Incandescent Lightbulbs with LED in Navigation Lamps

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Author Topic:   Replacing Incandescent Lightbulbs with LED in Navigation Lamps

DaveS posted 12-06-2010 09:29 AM ET (US)
The [combined sidelight lamp] on my 1991 Outrage 17 is still in good shape for being the better part of 20-years old. The problem I've been having: it works intermittently. I pull off the [lens] and clean up the area. It'll work for a while but then, cuts out again. I'd like to replace the [internal incandescent lightbulb] with an LED assembly, but I haven't been able to locate one on-line. Does anyone have a source [for an LED replacement] that would be compatible with my [Boston Whaler OEM combined sidelight lamp for a 1991 OUTRAGE 17]?
Thanks...

contender posted 12-06-2010 02:16 PM ET (US)
Dave, this has been discuss here before, I even tried to do the same thing using the factory [lamp] (not enough room). I can not remember if someone is producing an after market one (light) with the LED or not. You may have to do a search on this site to check it out. My boat does not have a factory interior so I ended up going with a set or pair that I mounted on the outside (each side one red one green) of my console for the navigation lights (attwood). Very pleased with them they are small round and out of the way, and meet the requirements of the Coast Guard. Good luck
jimh posted 12-06-2010 09:01 PM ET (US)
I don't know of any sort of drop-in replacement 12-volt LED assembly that would replace the incandescent lightbulb used in your OEM navigation lamp. You may have to make something on your own for this application. It sounds like the lamp is illuminated by a common light source. This means you will need an LED with a white light output. You might also look into making an internal screen that would separate the red and green sides, then use red and green LED's to illuminate the lamp.
What is the number of the incandescent light bulb that is used in the OEM lamp? You might be able to locate a replacement LED assembly by cross-reference to the incandescent lightbulb number.
macfam posted 12-07-2010 07:24 AM ET (US)
Ancor makes a line of LED bulbs for a variety of marine applications. I beleive some of these are direct replacements for standard bulbs.
I am considering using one for my all-around anchor mastlight on my 28, allowing it to be left on all night with very little power useage and no heat build-up.
Heading back to the boat at midnight in a crowded harbor or fog sure is made easier with the mastlight on......
http://www.marinco.com/productline/led-bulbs
home Aside posted 12-07-2010 11:52 AM ET (US)
Check e-bay for 12 volt LED replacement bulbs, there are several listed by Ancor also, decent prices considering what they cost retail
http://shop.ebay.com/?_from=R40&_trksid=p5197.m570.l1313&_nkw=LED+12+ volt+replacement+bulbs&_sacat=See-All-Categories
AZdave posted 12-09-2010 12:05 PM ET (US)
I notice that the last line in the description for most of the bulbs on the Marinco site forbids their use in navigational fixtures. I'm not saying the bulbs are not as good or better than incandesents, but they may not be certified. They might be a liability issue in a collision.
macfam posted 12-09-2010 07:41 PM ET (US)
AZdave,
Nice catch, I have never noticed that phrase before.
Obviously, they have not gone through testing with the USCG or whoever.
I'd still like to try them for my mastlight to see how they perform.
Utik posted 12-10-2010 07:18 AM ET (US)
You can't use a white LED to replace a white incandescent light if you intend to use it behind a colored filter. White incandescent lights put out a broad spectrum of colors. The green lens filters out all the colors but green. The red filters out all colors but red. LEDs put out a very narrow color spectrum of light. To make matters worse, there is no such thing as an LED that puts out white light. "White" LEDs are actually blue LEDs that have yellow phosphorus inside the die. The combination of the blue light and yellow phosphorus looks like white to our eyes. The problem is that these LEDs put out very little green or red light. If you put a green or red filter in front of them very little light at all will shine through. Check out an LED trailer light. They all use red LEDs behind the red lens. You need to use a red LED behind the red lens and a green LED behind the green lens.
contender posted 12-10-2010 03:07 PM ET (US)
Utik, Then why/how are my navigation lights LEDs and are CG approved for 1 mile? (Atwood lights) They are each a red and green light with a clear lens.
Utik posted 12-10-2010 03:41 PM ET (US)
They are colored LEDs. There is a red LED and a green LED. I have the same setup myself. To be clear, I am not saying that you cannot use LEDs for navigation lights. I am only saying that if you use a white LED and shine it through a red or green lens, very little light will get through.
We are used to thinking that there is a color white. White is actually a blend of all the colors of the spectrum blended together. The colored lenses block all the other colors leaving only the red or green. A white LED has very little red or green in it's "blend". It is almost all blue and yellow. A red or green lens would block the blue and yellow and very little light at all would emerge.
Utik posted 12-10-2010 03:44 PM ET (US)
Also, a white LED is fine for the all around white light. This light is not filtered so we see the unmolested "white" from the LED.
jimh posted 12-10-2010 03:55 PM ET (US)
The original navigation lamp should have been certified as compliant with the regulations when using its original electric light bulb for illumination. If you replace the original electric light bulb, you need to use the same type of light bulb, otherwise the lamp will no longer be the same as the one certified to be compliant.
However, I would not worry to much about being absolutely compliant. There was a rather high-profile case where a United States Coast Guard boat was in a collision, and upon investigation it was found that the navigation lamps on the USCG boat were not compliant (due to insufficient vertical separation between the sidelights and masthead light). If the USCG can operate boats with non-compliant navigation lights showing, I suspect you won't be imprisoned if your sidelights are illuminated with a LED instead of an incandescent source, as long as they are visible and appear to be red and green.
I think one reason that LED light sources are so popular now is the rather short life span of incandescent bulbs. The poorly made incandescent light bulbs that are on the market now, most made in China, are lucky to last six weeks. In the 1950's you could get incandescent electric light bulbs made by General Electric that would last six years or more.

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Author	Topic: Replacing Incandescent Lightbulbs with LED in Navigation Lamps
DaveS	posted 12-06-2010 09:29 AM ET (US) The [combined sidelight lamp] on my 1991 Outrage 17 is still in good shape for being the better part of 20-years old. The problem I've been having: it works intermittently. I pull off the [lens] and clean up the area. It'll work for a while but then, cuts out again. I'd like to replace the [internal incandescent lightbulb] with an LED assembly, but I haven't been able to locate one on-line. Does anyone have a source [for an LED replacement] that would be compatible with my [Boston Whaler OEM combined sidelight lamp for a 1991 OUTRAGE 17]? Thanks...
contender	posted 12-06-2010 02:16 PM ET (US) Dave, this has been discuss here before, I even tried to do the same thing using the factory [lamp] (not enough room). I can not remember if someone is producing an after market one (light) with the LED or not. You may have to do a search on this site to check it out. My boat does not have a factory interior so I ended up going with a set or pair that I mounted on the outside (each side one red one green) of my console for the navigation lights (attwood). Very pleased with them they are small round and out of the way, and meet the requirements of the Coast Guard. Good luck
jimh	posted 12-06-2010 09:01 PM ET (US) I don't know of any sort of drop-in replacement 12-volt LED assembly that would replace the incandescent lightbulb used in your OEM navigation lamp. You may have to make something on your own for this application. It sounds like the lamp is illuminated by a common light source. This means you will need an LED with a white light output. You might also look into making an internal screen that would separate the red and green sides, then use red and green LED's to illuminate the lamp. What is the number of the incandescent light bulb that is used in the OEM lamp? You might be able to locate a replacement LED assembly by cross-reference to the incandescent lightbulb number.
macfam	posted 12-07-2010 07:24 AM ET (US) Ancor makes a line of LED bulbs for a variety of marine applications. I beleive some of these are direct replacements for standard bulbs. I am considering using one for my all-around anchor mastlight on my 28, allowing it to be left on all night with very little power useage and no heat build-up. Heading back to the boat at midnight in a crowded harbor or fog sure is made easier with the mastlight on...... http://www.marinco.com/productline/led-bulbs
home Aside	posted 12-07-2010 11:52 AM ET (US) Check e-bay for 12 volt LED replacement bulbs, there are several listed by Ancor also, decent prices considering what they cost retail http://shop.ebay.com/?_from=R40&_trksid=p5197.m570.l1313&_nkw=LED+12+ volt+replacement+bulbs&_sacat=See-All-Categories
AZdave	posted 12-09-2010 12:05 PM ET (US) I notice that the last line in the description for most of the bulbs on the Marinco site forbids their use in navigational fixtures. I'm not saying the bulbs are not as good or better than incandesents, but they may not be certified. They might be a liability issue in a collision.
macfam	posted 12-09-2010 07:41 PM ET (US) AZdave, Nice catch, I have never noticed that phrase before. Obviously, they have not gone through testing with the USCG or whoever. I'd still like to try them for my mastlight to see how they perform.
Utik	posted 12-10-2010 07:18 AM ET (US) You can't use a white LED to replace a white incandescent light if you intend to use it behind a colored filter. White incandescent lights put out a broad spectrum of colors. The green lens filters out all the colors but green. The red filters out all colors but red. LEDs put out a very narrow color spectrum of light. To make matters worse, there is no such thing as an LED that puts out white light. "White" LEDs are actually blue LEDs that have yellow phosphorus inside the die. The combination of the blue light and yellow phosphorus looks like white to our eyes. The problem is that these LEDs put out very little green or red light. If you put a green or red filter in front of them very little light at all will shine through. Check out an LED trailer light. They all use red LEDs behind the red lens. You need to use a red LED behind the red lens and a green LED behind the green lens.
contender	posted 12-10-2010 03:07 PM ET (US) Utik, Then why/how are my navigation lights LEDs and are CG approved for 1 mile? (Atwood lights) They are each a red and green light with a clear lens.
Utik	posted 12-10-2010 03:41 PM ET (US) They are colored LEDs. There is a red LED and a green LED. I have the same setup myself. To be clear, I am not saying that you cannot use LEDs for navigation lights. I am only saying that if you use a white LED and shine it through a red or green lens, very little light will get through. We are used to thinking that there is a color white. White is actually a blend of all the colors of the spectrum blended together. The colored lenses block all the other colors leaving only the red or green. A white LED has very little red or green in it's "blend". It is almost all blue and yellow. A red or green lens would block the blue and yellow and very little light at all would emerge.
Utik	posted 12-10-2010 03:44 PM ET (US) Also, a white LED is fine for the all around white light. This light is not filtered so we see the unmolested "white" from the LED.
jimh	posted 12-10-2010 03:55 PM ET (US) The original navigation lamp should have been certified as compliant with the regulations when using its original electric light bulb for illumination. If you replace the original electric light bulb, you need to use the same type of light bulb, otherwise the lamp will no longer be the same as the one certified to be compliant. However, I would not worry to much about being absolutely compliant. There was a rather high-profile case where a United States Coast Guard boat was in a collision, and upon investigation it was found that the navigation lamps on the USCG boat were not compliant (due to insufficient vertical separation between the sidelights and masthead light). If the USCG can operate boats with non-compliant navigation lights showing, I suspect you won't be imprisoned if your sidelights are illuminated with a LED instead of an incandescent source, as long as they are visible and appear to be red and green. I think one reason that LED light sources are so popular now is the rather short life span of incandescent bulbs. The poorly made incandescent light bulbs that are on the market now, most made in China, are lucky to last six weeks. In the 1950's you could get incandescent electric light bulbs made by General Electric that would last six years or more.