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Author Topic:   Replacement for teak

cohasett73 posted 02-05-2011 09:05 AM ET (US)
This winter I have been kicking around the idea of making a wooden hatch for the anchor locker of my Cohasset II.
Teak is so darned expensive these days; has anyone used a wood called Iroko as a substitute? I did a google search first and it seems to have most of the same desirable qualities as teak. Any thoughts?
Tom from Rubicon,WI
pcrussell50 posted 02-05-2011 10:27 AM ET (US)
Foam board from Home Depot or the like. Cut and surform to desired shape, then hand layup fiberglass and epoxy. Heck, epoxy is overkill. Use vinylester, with is somewhere between epoxy and polyester. Paint the foam any color you want, before laminating. I might look nice on a desert tan boat, to have a bright, white hatch, but that's IMHO. Oh, and of course, it will be a good deal lighter than wood.
-Peter
pcrussell50 posted 02-05-2011 10:30 AM ET (US)
Ooops. My one-year-old baby girl just hit send on me.
You could finish it in hull-colored gelcoat, and maybe roll on some texture that matches the non-skid before the gelcoat is completely set.
-Peter
cohasett73 posted 02-05-2011 10:52 AM ET (US)
Peter,
I have the original cored glass cover for the anchor locker. My thought is to add a little bling to my boat.
It is my hope someone on this forum is familiar with Iroko.
Tom from Rubicon,WI
Tom W Clark posted 02-05-2011 10:54 AM ET (US)
Uh, if you're going to attempt to make a foam-cored fiberglass locker cover, you may as well just buy the teak. It will be much cheaper and easier!
The anchor locker of a Cohasset is not large. The cost difference between Teak and Iroko will not amount to much.
I have never used Iroko myself but it is said to be less stable than Teak.
cohasett73 posted 02-05-2011 11:37 AM ET (US)
I did a google search"Iroko stability"
From which I found.
Journal of Tropical Forest Science, Oct 2010 by Shukla, S R, Kamdem, D P
"The amount of water uptake as function of immersion duration was measured and correlated with wood porosity. Among the species used in this study, teak showed the lowest swelling rate, therefore, the more dimensionally stable property. Ayous, iroko and movingui were relatively more dimensionally stable than bubinga, makore and moabi. The swelling rate in the tangential direction was much higher than the radial. Bubinga, bilinga and zingana exhibited higher radial swelling rates compared with iroko and teak."
I suspect that if I put a water resistant finish on it iroko would be stable enough.
The fact that iroko is $9.00 per BF as compared to $39.00 per BF for teak I got to try it unless someone says don't do it.
Tom from Rubicon,WI
Binkster posted 02-05-2011 12:36 PM ET (US)
(Laminating foam board from Home Depot) Not a good idea at all. LOL
This type of construction foam will disintegrate when laminated with polyester resin and mat. It will actually turn to mush. Don`t know about epoxy though, but this type of foam board has actually no strength, and the cost of the amount of epoxy and mat needed to make it strong enough to stand on would make in very uneconomical. You could use this method if you used 3/4" Divinycell or other brands of rigid marine foam board. I bought and used a 4x8 sheet some 10 or so years ago. It cost $125 back then. Maybe, though not likely some marine fabricator will give or sell you a piece.
Binkster posted 02-05-2011 12:40 PM ET (US)
Tom, use the right stuff. Use Sapele(African mahogany) about $5.00 a board foot around here. Its what Whaler mahogany interiors are made from.
cohasett73 posted 02-05-2011 02:19 PM ET (US)
Rich,
Sapele is beautiful wood but not as dent resistant as teak/iroko. All the rest of the wood on my Cohasset is teak or teak ply,I'm just wanting to be color coordinated.
Tom from Rubicon,WI
pcrussell50 posted 02-05-2011 03:26 PM ET (US)

quote:
(Laminating foam board from Home Depot) Not a good idea at all. LOL
This type of construction foam will disintegrate when laminated with polyester resin and mat. It will actually turn to mush.
I'm pretty sure I didn't recommend polyester. Though polyurethane-based foam is fine with polyester... it's what surfboards are cored with. I think I recommeded vinylester, as epoxy would be overkill for a cover. So sure, if you must use polyester, make sure you find polyurethane foam. It's available at plastics supply houses. In the "I've never thought of that", department, I've made non-structural, custom air-intake boxes by fiberglassing corrugated cardboard with light glass and polyester. They were incredibly light, amazingly rigid, and easy to form into useful shapes before lamination. We were talking about an anchor hatch cover, not a transom or stringers or core, right? I love corecell and divinycell. One day I want to scrape together the shekels to re-do my Sidewinder 16' marine structural foam.
-Peter
Jefecinco posted 02-05-2011 05:11 PM ET (US)
Tom,
Your goal is to make your boat more beautiful, no? To add a little "bling"?
A potential problem when mixing wood trim types to the exterior of a boat is that weathering may produce different results leading to disappointment.
I recommend teak for the hatch so all will be the same wood with the same qualities and characteristics. However if cost is THE consideration you may want to consider replacing all your teak with iroko.
Butch
cohasett73 posted 02-06-2011 09:25 AM ET (US)
Butch,
Weathering of the wood is not a problem with me. When not in use my Cohasset is stored in my steel shed and as for mixing woods I'm kind of guilty. I have a mahogany block on my console that the binical is mounted to and the down riggers are mounted to red oak boards with cherry vertical supports. No one has said my boat is unattractive.
Tom from Rubicon,WI
Binkster posted 02-06-2011 10:53 AM ET (US)
Tom,
After reading about Iroko(I never heard about it) I would use it, Its only a small project anyway, if It doesn`t work out just chalk it up to experience. If it does you might have found a new type of wood that would be great for Whaler interiors. Three or four years ago, becuase there is a cypress sawmill nearby and the material is very inexpensive, and I knew cypress is rotproof, I built a 13` interior with a standard console out of it. It looked good untill I left it out in the weather for six months, and I gave it away to a forum member. He was happy to get it.
Binkster posted 02-06-2011 10:56 AM ET (US)
(After re-reading my post above, I realize my spell-check can`t pick up all the misspelled words, Sorry jimh)
cohasett73 posted 02-06-2011 12:21 PM ET (US)
Next trick will be hunting some up here in SE Wisconsin.
Tom from Rubicon,WI
Tom W Clark posted 02-06-2011 12:57 PM ET (US)
Tom -- Let us know how it comes out and holds up.
How much wood is in a bow locker cover? Maybe 3 board/feet?
Peter -- I'm pretty sure you recommended foam board from Home Depot or the like. I think The Home Depot only sells foam board used for insulation and that said foam board is either Styrofoam or polyisocyanurate.
Vinylester will melt Styrofoam just like polyester resin will. Either can be used on polyisocyanurate but since the thinnest material they sell is 1" thick, you'll need to tediously try to mill it down to a 1/2" thickness for the core because the bow locker cover is only 3/4" thick.
You can also buy polyurethane foam sheets, which will not melt under polyester or vinylester resins, but it is very expensive, much more so that building insulation.

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Author	Topic: Replacement for teak
cohasett73	posted 02-05-2011 09:05 AM ET (US) This winter I have been kicking around the idea of making a wooden hatch for the anchor locker of my Cohasset II. Teak is so darned expensive these days; has anyone used a wood called Iroko as a substitute? I did a google search first and it seems to have most of the same desirable qualities as teak. Any thoughts? Tom from Rubicon,WI
pcrussell50	posted 02-05-2011 10:27 AM ET (US) Foam board from Home Depot or the like. Cut and surform to desired shape, then hand layup fiberglass and epoxy. Heck, epoxy is overkill. Use vinylester, with is somewhere between epoxy and polyester. Paint the foam any color you want, before laminating. I might look nice on a desert tan boat, to have a bright, white hatch, but that's IMHO. Oh, and of course, it will be a good deal lighter than wood. -Peter
pcrussell50	posted 02-05-2011 10:30 AM ET (US) Ooops. My one-year-old baby girl just hit send on me. You could finish it in hull-colored gelcoat, and maybe roll on some texture that matches the non-skid before the gelcoat is completely set. -Peter
cohasett73	posted 02-05-2011 10:52 AM ET (US) Peter, I have the original cored glass cover for the anchor locker. My thought is to add a little bling to my boat. It is my hope someone on this forum is familiar with Iroko. Tom from Rubicon,WI
Tom W Clark	posted 02-05-2011 10:54 AM ET (US) Uh, if you're going to attempt to make a foam-cored fiberglass locker cover, you may as well just buy the teak. It will be much cheaper and easier! The anchor locker of a Cohasset is not large. The cost difference between Teak and Iroko will not amount to much. I have never used Iroko myself but it is said to be less stable than Teak.
cohasett73	posted 02-05-2011 11:37 AM ET (US) I did a google search"Iroko stability" From which I found. Journal of Tropical Forest Science, Oct 2010 by Shukla, S R, Kamdem, D P "The amount of water uptake as function of immersion duration was measured and correlated with wood porosity. Among the species used in this study, teak showed the lowest swelling rate, therefore, the more dimensionally stable property. Ayous, iroko and movingui were relatively more dimensionally stable than bubinga, makore and moabi. The swelling rate in the tangential direction was much higher than the radial. Bubinga, bilinga and zingana exhibited higher radial swelling rates compared with iroko and teak." I suspect that if I put a water resistant finish on it iroko would be stable enough. The fact that iroko is $9.00 per BF as compared to $39.00 per BF for teak I got to try it unless someone says don't do it. Tom from Rubicon,WI
Binkster	posted 02-05-2011 12:36 PM ET (US) (Laminating foam board from Home Depot) Not a good idea at all. LOL This type of construction foam will disintegrate when laminated with polyester resin and mat. It will actually turn to mush. Don`t know about epoxy though, but this type of foam board has actually no strength, and the cost of the amount of epoxy and mat needed to make it strong enough to stand on would make in very uneconomical. You could use this method if you used 3/4" Divinycell or other brands of rigid marine foam board. I bought and used a 4x8 sheet some 10 or so years ago. It cost $125 back then. Maybe, though not likely some marine fabricator will give or sell you a piece.
Binkster	posted 02-05-2011 12:40 PM ET (US) Tom, use the right stuff. Use Sapele(African mahogany) about $5.00 a board foot around here. Its what Whaler mahogany interiors are made from.
cohasett73	posted 02-05-2011 02:19 PM ET (US) Rich, Sapele is beautiful wood but not as dent resistant as teak/iroko. All the rest of the wood on my Cohasset is teak or teak ply,I'm just wanting to be color coordinated. Tom from Rubicon,WI
pcrussell50	posted 02-05-2011 03:26 PM ET (US) quote: (Laminating foam board from Home Depot) Not a good idea at all. LOL This type of construction foam will disintegrate when laminated with polyester resin and mat. It will actually turn to mush. I'm pretty sure I didn't recommend polyester. Though polyurethane-based foam is fine with polyester... it's what surfboards are cored with. I think I recommeded vinylester, as epoxy would be overkill for a cover. So sure, if you must use polyester, make sure you find polyurethane foam. It's available at plastics supply houses. In the "I've never thought of that", department, I've made non-structural, custom air-intake boxes by fiberglassing corrugated cardboard with light glass and polyester. They were incredibly light, amazingly rigid, and easy to form into useful shapes before lamination. We were talking about an anchor hatch cover, not a transom or stringers or core, right? I love corecell and divinycell. One day I want to scrape together the shekels to re-do my Sidewinder 16' marine structural foam. -Peter
Jefecinco	posted 02-05-2011 05:11 PM ET (US) Tom, Your goal is to make your boat more beautiful, no? To add a little "bling"? A potential problem when mixing wood trim types to the exterior of a boat is that weathering may produce different results leading to disappointment. I recommend teak for the hatch so all will be the same wood with the same qualities and characteristics. However if cost is THE consideration you may want to consider replacing all your teak with iroko. Butch
cohasett73	posted 02-06-2011 09:25 AM ET (US) Butch, Weathering of the wood is not a problem with me. When not in use my Cohasset is stored in my steel shed and as for mixing woods I'm kind of guilty. I have a mahogany block on my console that the binical is mounted to and the down riggers are mounted to red oak boards with cherry vertical supports. No one has said my boat is unattractive. Tom from Rubicon,WI
Binkster	posted 02-06-2011 10:53 AM ET (US) Tom, After reading about Iroko(I never heard about it) I would use it, Its only a small project anyway, if It doesn`t work out just chalk it up to experience. If it does you might have found a new type of wood that would be great for Whaler interiors. Three or four years ago, becuase there is a cypress sawmill nearby and the material is very inexpensive, and I knew cypress is rotproof, I built a 13` interior with a standard console out of it. It looked good untill I left it out in the weather for six months, and I gave it away to a forum member. He was happy to get it.
Binkster	posted 02-06-2011 10:56 AM ET (US) (After re-reading my post above, I realize my spell-check can`t pick up all the misspelled words, Sorry jimh)
cohasett73	posted 02-06-2011 12:21 PM ET (US) Next trick will be hunting some up here in SE Wisconsin. Tom from Rubicon,WI
Tom W Clark	posted 02-06-2011 12:57 PM ET (US) Tom -- Let us know how it comes out and holds up. How much wood is in a bow locker cover? Maybe 3 board/feet? Peter -- I'm pretty sure you recommended foam board from Home Depot or the like. I think The Home Depot only sells foam board used for insulation and that said foam board is either Styrofoam or polyisocyanurate. Vinylester will melt Styrofoam just like polyester resin will. Either can be used on polyisocyanurate but since the thinnest material they sell is 1" thick, you'll need to tediously try to mill it down to a 1/2" thickness for the core because the bow locker cover is only 3/4" thick. You can also buy polyurethane foam sheets, which will not melt under polyester or vinylester resins, but it is very expensive, much more so that building insulation.