posted 02-18-2011 03:37 PM ET (US)        

For those of you who have either the standard or fold-down seat on your boat, how do you like it? And what specifically do you like and dislike about it?

I already know that on the 25 to get a full width seat it must be quite forward due to the quarter boxes, so it intrudes into the cockpit a lot. Also, due to the quarter boxes, a fold down seat is only partial width. Unfortunately there are not other boats around here with the rear seats that I can inspect to actually test out. I've heard from Tom W Clark that he likes how even as tall as he is that he can still stretch out across the full width seat, from LHG that he has mixed feelings about the space taken up negative versus postive of the time the seat is actually used, and from Buckda that his rear seat is highly favored by his family passengers. From review of the seats and all the pictures I can find, here are some other questions that come to mind.

Standard seat

--is the backrest on the standard seat high enough to be comfortable leaning back on?

--about how high above the seat does the backrest extend?

--how hard is it to step over the seat to the transom?

--does water tend to pool in the gap between the seatback and seatbase? Our boat is covered when stored but will have many swimmers and skiers climbing on and over the seat soaking wet.

--how deep is the seatbase?

Fold-down seat

--the backrest appears lower than on the standard seat, though it could likely be made higher. As is, is the height enough to lean against, or does it just serve as more of a backstop?

--how high off the floor is the seatbase?

--is the seat fairly sturdy to sit on? Does it move much under load? The bottom legs and leg joint don't look very robust from the pictures I've seen

--overall, do you find this seat similarly comfortable to the standard seat? If not, how do you find it different

I appreciate your input. I'm on the fence on what to do but leaning toward the standard seat primarily for the greater width and the resulting ability to stretch out.

posted 02-18-2011 05:08 PM ET (US)            

Neither seat is comfortable to sit on due to the low backs, but the folding seat is worse than the permanent seat. The back rest on the folding seat is little more than a butt stop to prevent sliding back.

If you are having a seat made, definitely consider a higher than original back rest. My folding seat does not actually have a back rest. The back rest is the teak board attached to the stern rail with a snap on cushion.

The full width seat is nice to stretch out on, but does take up more space in the cockpit. The full width seat offers nice protection and containment for youngsters and is more comfortable than the folding seat.

Water and debris do collect in the full width seat, but that alone would not dissuade me from installing one.

The folding seat in the down position is much easier to climb over than the full width seat. In the up position, there is little difference.

Either seat will impede access to the fish box, but the folding seat in the down position is only a minor impediment.

My cruising passengers always preferred the full width seat.
My fishing buddies and I prefer the folding seat. As a fisherman, I would not want the full width seat, especially since I use the in-deck fish box as a live well.

As a fisherman, I will not install a full width seat. The ideal seat for me would be the folding seat with a modified back rest. I have rod holders on the stern rail and have mused over the idea of a drop in backrest that is tall enough and angled correctly. The drop in back rest would have two poles that slid into the rod holders, or some sort of bracket that would slide over the teak board.

I can get you some measurement later if you need on the folding seat.

posted 02-18-2011 05:34 PM ET (US)            

I was also thinking about a custom version of the fold-down seat, where there would be fixed "seat ends" at the quarter boxes so that when the bench seat is folded out, they would line up to form a continuous bench. It seems like that would be a nice mix of the two with the exception of the low backrest. It also seems like one could put a higher backrest on the folding seat model in a custom version.

I have some pictures of a standard-type seat with a high backrest that I've saved, but it appears like it would make access to the transom area challenging.

posted 02-18-2011 07:06 PM ET (US)            

The seat is very wide, and semi-comfortable. But as you can see in the picture, the back is low. (That did not prevent my son and his girlfriend from being sound asleep in the picture as we returned from Menemsha on Martha's Vineyard)
One person can stretch across and be very comfortable when at anchor.

http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v333/macfam/?action=view¤t=ABrianSinboat.jpg

I rountinely removed the bench seat, and then put it back in as needed. It took 10-15 minutes. When fishing during the height of the season...no bench seat. However, when guest were coming to the Cape, I'd take it from the garage, and simply re-install. Quick with a Mikita drill and Phillips head drive.
When the bench was removed, the fishing area was substantial. The photo is with the seat removed leaving Vineyard Haven.

http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v333/macfam/?action=view& current=vnydhvndock2.jpg

The last picture is depicting a large adult sitting on the bench seat underway. Very comfortable at a good cruising speed heading across Nantucket Sound. My buddy, Phil, always enjoyed that seat, and marveled how a single Yamaha 250 moved that 25.

posted 02-18-2011 07:09 PM ET (US)            

http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v333/macfam/ ?action=view¤t=ABrianSinboat.jpg

I rountinely removed the bench seat, and then put it back in as needed. It took 10-15 minutes. When fishing during the height of the season...no bench seat. However, when guest were coming to the Cape, I'd take it from the garage, and simply re-install. Quick with a Mikita drill and Phillips head drive.
When the bench was removed, the fishing area was substantial. The photo is with the seat removed leaving Vineyard Haven.

http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v333/macfam/?action=view& current=vnydhvndock2.jpg

The last picture is depicting a large adult sitting on the bench seat underway. Very comfortable at a good cruising speed heading across Nantucket Sound. My buddy, Phil, always enjoyed that seat, and marveled how a single Yamaha 250 moved that 25.

http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v333/macfam/?action=view¤t=MS724RM. jpg

posted 02-18-2011 09:42 PM ET (US)            

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v333/macfam/vnydhvndock2.jpg

posted 02-18-2011 10:42 PM ET (US)            

Since I am almost always at the helm when underway, it is hard for me to judge the value of the seat, but Chris loves it. She won't go boating without the seat installed.

posted 02-19-2011 12:15 AM ET (US)            

Four or five years ago I was offered a OEM seat and cash for a trade. Thanks, but No, totally uncomfortable.

posted 02-19-2011 03:08 AM ET (US)            

jimh, on Page 28 of the 1988 Boston Whaler catalog available on the CDs, there is a good picture of the fold-down seat on an Outrage 25. (in my search of this site I found a reference from LHG mentioning that picture)

posted 02-19-2011 10:00 AM ET (US)            

The seat has four metal legs. The legs are made from stainless steel tubing which is bent into a wide U-shape and affixed to the seat bottom with screws. There are two U-shaped pieces, one on each side. These U-shaped pieces are not rigidly fixed to the seat bottom, but can move side to side a few degrees. This permits easy alignment to the mounting base when installing the seat. The hollow tubes slide over four bases fixed to the deck.

The four bases on the deck are fixed to the deck with stainless steel screws. Each base has a bronze post whose diameter is slightly smaller than the inside diameter of the U-shaped legs of the seat and projects upward from the deck about 1.5-inch. The bronze base posts have a threaded hole machined into them. The U-shaped legs have a hole drilled into one side of the tubing in a location such that when the tubes are fitted over the bronze post of a base, the holes on the tube and post align. A stainless steel machine screw is threaded through the tube hole and into the post hole, fastening the seat to the deck.

The seat design is a wrap-around type, and the seat has arms on its side. The width of the seat is less than the width of the cockpit between the gunwales. To make a tight fit of the seat between the gunwales, on each side a block of teak wood has been provided to act as a filler. The thickness of the teak filler board is just slightly larger than the gap between the seat arms and the gunwales. The teak filler boards compress against the padding of the seat, providing a firm fit of the seat between the gunwales. On the side of the teak filler boards which presses against the gunwales, a rubber-like mesh has been adhered to the board. This rubber-like mesh comes in contact with the gel coat of the gunwale and provides additional friction to retain the teak filler boards in place. The boards are constructed with a lip that overlaps the top of the gunwale, and this prevents them from falling to the cockpit deck.

Because the boat is a Whaler Drive model, there is a bulkhead across the width of the cockpit at the aft end of the cockpit. The rear of the seat fits against this bulkhead. There is a teak coaming board affixed to the top of the bulkhead which projects upward about three to four inches above the deck and runs the full width of the cockpit. The upper portion of the seat back fits against this coaming board. At two locations in the coaming board there are holes drilled. Through these holes long wood screws pass and thread into the seat, passing through the upholstery and fixing into the embedded wood of the seat. These two screws secure the seat in place against the coaming board, preventing side-to-side movement and preventing the seat from tipping forward.

I will describe the process of removing the seat, as follows. The four machine screws are removed, one from each leg, taking care not to lose them as they are of an usual thread-cutting design, head, and length. This frees the legs from the base. The two long wood screws are removed from the coaming board. The teak filler boards are removed from the seat arms. The seat is lifted out of position and removed from the boat.

posted 02-19-2011 11:10 AM ET (US)            

For starters, the seats properly called STERN seats, not AFT seats, specifically Full Width Stern Seat v. Folddown Stern Seat.

I concur with many of the comments above. Having owned the Full Width Stern Seat in my Revenge 25, I can attest that it is a great thing--for some things.

It is spacious, comfortable and attractive and is like having a sofa onboard. At 6' 2" I can fully recline and take a nap, even while underway (the autopilot is wonderful!)

I have had as many as five adults seated there while cruising along. As the furthest aft seating area in the boat, it is a very smooth place to sit. While I'm getting pounded at the helm in a nasty chop, passengers back there are enjoying relative smoothness; it is amazing what a difference that short distance makes to the apparent ride.

The Full Width Stern Seat does have a low back. It is not something you can really recline against, but raising the seat back a few inches does not change that, it just make the seat look ill-proportioned and restrict your view form the helm. The Folddown Stern Seat does not offer much more back support either.

I totally agree that the Full Width Stern Seat takes up space on deck and restricts easy access to the fishwell. When I fish, I take the stern seat out. It is very easy to remove and I simply unscrew the bases entirely to avoid any tripping hazard. It takes just a few minutes. The hardest thing is to lift it out of the boat by yourself; it is much easier if you have a helper

WARNING: You must be VERY careful setting it down out of the boat. It is not laterally stable and if you sit on it while it's in your driveway or garage, you will tear the mounting screws for the legs out of the seat base as it flops over sideways.

The Full Width Stern Seat is also susceptible to getting waterlogged. It does have weep holes in it, but rain or washdown water will tend to sit too long and can lead to saturated plywood and foam. My seat bit the dust last summer after 21 years. It was completely rotted even though it looked good and still functioned fine. If I replace it, I will order a dedicated Mills seat cover for it to help keep it dry.

posted 02-19-2011 01:07 PM ET (US)            

The poor lateral stability when out of the boat, unscrewing the bases from the floor, instead of just removing from the bases, and removing is easier with 2 people, although I did it often alone.

When I had Art's Boat Top re-construct the stern seat, they also fabricted a Sunbrella snap on cover to protect for the sun, and keep it dry.
Applying Aerotech 303 every season kept the water, (salt or fresh) beading up and rolling off.
In addtion, Art's also installed the white mesh under the entire length of the seat instead of the upholstery, allowing better air movement underneath to dry the seat out and help extend the life of the seat.

I too like the boat without the seat, but with 3 kids and their significant others, it was a very welcome option and served us well.

posted 02-20-2011 01:00 AM ET (US)            

STERN, noun, the rear end of a boat

STERN, adjective, having a definite hardness or severity of nature or manner

AFT, adjective, rearward

posted 02-20-2011 08:42 AM ET (US)            

To what "stern" are you referring? Or perhaps...who's?

STERN
Pronunciation (US):
Dictionary entry overview: What does Stern mean?
• STERN (noun)
The noun STERN has 3 senses:
1. the rear part of a ship
2. United States concert violinist (born in Russia in 1920)
3. the fleshy part of the human body that you sit on
Familiarity information: STERN used as a noun is uncommon.

STERN (noun)

Sense 3 stern Meaning:
The fleshy part of the human body that you sit on
Classified under:
Nouns denoting body parts
Synonyms:
hind end; hindquarters; keister; nates; posterior; prat; rear end; tooshie; tush; fanny; derriere; arse; buttocks; ass; buns; behind; fundament; seat; backside; rump; bottom; tail end; stern; tail; rear; bum; butt; can
Context examples:
he deserves a good kick in the butt / are you going to sit on your fanny and do nothing?

posted 02-20-2011 10:04 AM ET (US)            

Of course, that was about 30 years ago. I think you're a bit late to the party.

We could have all sorts of fun arguing about the appropriateness of Whaler's choice of names, we could even spend time and energy coming up with entirely new (and more grammatically correct) names for Whaler products.

posted 02-20-2011 07:12 PM ET (US)            

The folding seat is installed on the 25 Revenge.

The seat dimensions are 15-1/8" deep x 57" long x 1-1/8" thick. The seating surface without cushion is 16-3/8" above the deck.

The bench always was very solid, however I did manage to break mine. At the start of last season, in nasty confused chop, I came down off a wave too hard with one of the crew sitting on the bench and managed to split the 1" thick mahogany lengthwise right down the middle.

Support for the seat consists of two U-shaped legs underneath and two hinges at the rear where the plank hangs off of the wooden stern rail. The U-Shape frames provided support via four point loads, and there is no support across the grain, which turned out to be the weak link. If the bench were made from plywood or the support frame were closed across the top, or if there were some other means to support the solid wood across the grain, then the seat would be much more solid.

Let me know if you need pictures.

posted 02-21-2011 10:40 AM ET (US)            

http://s10.photobucket.com/albums/a118/dfmcintyre/NorthChannel%202010/ ?action=view¤t=IMG_1876.jpg

And, after the rain, it never quite dried out, so here's the next image without the cushion:

http://s10.photobucket.com/albums/a118/dfmcintyre/NorthChannel%202010/ ?action=view¤t=IMG_1909.jpg

posted 07-13-2011 08:01 AM ET (US)            

Structure - aluminum tubing like a T-top - radiused curves with some welding.

Seat bottom - full width, like the stock seat, but the seat base will follow the curve of the rear quarter boxes - that puts the seat slightly further aft since on the OEM seat the seat back is also ahead of the quarter boxes. Base is of a plastic composite and is removable from the aluminum tubing.

Seat back - 16" high, removable, in two pieces - the starboard side is 2/3 of the width, with the port side the remaining 1/3. Each side will sit in two fishing rod holders, similar to seatbacks on leaning posts (but the seatback cushion on mine is much taller than on a typical leaning post backrest at about 12", leaving about a 4" gap between the seatbase and seatback).

Being removable will allow me to have higher, more supportive seatbacks than OEM yet still have good stern access. The split design is specifically for when doing watersports when I need to get to the stern frequently, so I can leave in 2/3 and take out the 1/3. Plus, when out fishing, I have 4 more rodholders if I leave the seatbacks out (though 2 will be very close to each other).

Vinyl - OEM-style pleated vinyl to match the RPS and cooler cushions currently in the boat.

Attachment - seatbase will attach to the floor in the same places as the stock seat. Additionally, instead of the rear seat rail for stabilizing, the seatbase will bolt to the quarter boxes on each side.

Once I get it I'll take some pictures both pre- and post-install. I don't have a picture hosting page but if someone would like to volunteer to post them I'll forward them on to you.

posted 07-20-2011 12:27 PM ET (US)            

http://s33.photobucket.com/albums/d60/Martin-Marine-Design/

I had a great time designing this seat with Russell. He had a specific design in mind and it was fun bringing it to life. Thank you very much Russell!

posted 08-04-2011 01:03 PM ET (US)            

I think the album is set so anyone can view it.

http://s1205.photobucket.com/albums/bb434/russellbailey3/1984%20Boston%20Whaler%20Outrage%2025%20-%20Rear%20Seat/

I came up with the design details about placement in the boat, width, and how I wanted the backrest to work. Raymond helped me with height and depth of the cushions and he figured out how to build it. Thanks to all here for your input on what you liked and did not like. Those comments are what led me to the design.

posted 08-05-2011 11:57 AM ET (US)            

Has anyone ever fashioned a quick release system, using pins, anchors, etc. for the stern seat? I am visioning something that is flush mounted to the deck, so that there is no tripping, toe ripping item in place when the seat is out. Whatever is used would have an appropriate adhesive to keep water out. A threaded machine screw would be in place when the seat is out.

posted 08-05-2011 12:20 PM ET (US)            

Like this?

https://sites.google.com/site/bostonwhalersternseat/

This a seat I built for my 22 Outrage 4 years ago. It could be quickly and completely removed to open the rear deck up, or you could undo the hinges and just remove the seat bottom and coolers. This left the seat back in place giving you something to lean against when fighting a fish off your stern. I loved the seat and the current owners of my old Outrage had Lois at Halls make a seat bottom and seat back cushion for it in OEM vinyl.

posted 08-05-2011 10:39 PM ET (US)            

I have a piece of hardware in mind for the deck fastening system, but do not know what it is called or if it is available in stainless. I will post further once I determine the name of the hardware. Still have nothing in mind for the gunwhales.