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Author Topic:   Wire Rope and Pulley Steering

johnnylaing posted 06-16-2011 02:15 AM ET (US)
My [1968--pleaese use four digits for years--jimh] [Boston Whaler] 13 has two padeyes on Starboard and one on Port. How do I install [wire rope] and pulley steering with one Starboard spring, as is Whaler's recommendation? It seems like I'll need an additional padeye on each side to terminate the 3/16-inch wire rope, but maybe I'm missing something. Possibly this was a tiller steer boat. Also do the pulleys attach directly to the pad-eye or use some type connector? [Seeks] pictures from an original [wire rope and pulley steering installation on a classic Boston Whaler 13-footer]. I'm not doing Teleflex. thank you!
goldstem posted 06-16-2011 11:57 AM ET (US)
[T]he cables can terminate at the motor. [I] don't honestly recall if that is how [Boston Whaler] did it [as it has] been too long since I rigged that cable steering.
pcrussell50 posted 06-16-2011 02:02 PM ET (US)

quote:
[Seeks] pictures from an original [wire rope and pulley steering installation on a classic Boston Whaler 13-footer]. I'm not doing Teleflex.
Good on you for keeping it real! I don't know what it is about boats that makes me like classic stuff. I don't feel that way about cars, where I like the new stuff.
Not to mention that there's there's a crude, rugged, reliable practicality in rope and pulley. Good features in a boat. Particularly a salt water boat.
Anyway, well done.
-Peter
Tom W Clark posted 06-16-2011 02:17 PM ET (US)
The padeyes are for the pulleys, not for terminating the cable.
Two pulleys on the starboard side and one pulley on the port side.
The cable ends terminate at the motor with the starboard end terminating at the single spring attached to the motor.
Tom W Clark posted 06-16-2011 02:26 PM ET (US)
Actually looking back though the catalogs, I see that by the 1970's Boston Whaler added pulleys to the motor attachment to "gear down" the steering.
On those boat there was an extra pad eye on each side of the boat.
johnnylaing posted 06-16-2011 02:46 PM ET (US)
I'm following. And the connection to the pad-eyes? I have three pulleys that are contained in a flat steel bracket(no swivel) and two (that attach to the motor bracket) that have a swivel hook. Thanks in advance for the help, and pics would be great! I've looked and looked to find an original picture showing the rigging.
Tom W Clark posted 06-16-2011 03:03 PM ET (US)
Thimble and two cable clamps on each end.
johnnylaing posted 06-16-2011 03:18 PM ET (US)
OK--at the two ends.
Starboard: spring,thimble,two clamps
Port: thimble, two clamps
What I was not specific about was the three pulleys- how do they attach to the pad-eyes? I just did a dry fit and it appears they will not have much clearance without some kind of link. Again, anyone, are there any pictures in existence to share?
jimh posted 06-16-2011 04:45 PM ET (US)
View:
http://continuouswave.com/whaler/cetacea/images/82/ 2dutchHarborWhaler811x606.jpg
which comes from
http://continuouswave.com/whaler/cetacea/cetaceaPage82.html
Binkster posted 06-16-2011 11:12 PM ET (US)
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c191/floridaboy2053/rearpulleyhookup. jpg
pcrussell50 posted 06-16-2011 11:18 PM ET (US)
Nice, Binks. Classic'o'rama. My old Big Twin,'59 Super Seahorse 35hp, had a similar looking, quarter-turn-fastener attaching to the "handle" on the front of the engine. Of course, most of the cabling was hidden underneath the gunwales and the splashwell on the semi-finned fiberglass runabout.
-Peter
Binkster posted 06-16-2011 11:45 PM ET (US)
A cleaner looking setup with a 2008 Merc 25 4 stroke on a 6" setback bracket.
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c191/floridaboy2053/ Whaler%20with%20Mercury/Whalermerc5.jpg
Binkster posted 06-16-2011 11:53 PM ET (US)
90 degree coaming pulleys (raceboat hardware, not original Whaler junk).
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c191/floridaboy2053/ Whaler%20with%20Mercury/Whalermerc6.jpg
pcrussell50 posted 06-16-2011 11:55 PM ET (US)
Did you have to drill into the modern Merc to attach the steering bracket?
-Peter
johnnylaing posted 06-17-2011 12:44 AM ET (US)
I notice two springs while Whaler says one on starboard, so...one or two springs? Thanks for all the replies...
Binkster posted 06-17-2011 07:53 AM ET (US)
Peter
No there are two convenient tapped holes that I just bolted a homemade connector to made out of 3/8" aluminum angle. Don't remember what the holes are for.
johnny
Either way will work. The spring is for keeping tension on the cable and to let it "stretch" when the motor is tilted. I find two springs let you keep better tension on the cable with the setback bracket. some may say that one spring is better becuase there is less chance that the motor can slightly move back and forth when running, but I have never noticed anything like that.
There is no torque steer when using cable and pulley steering. The wheel won't turn if you remove your hand when running.
On outboard powered raceboats, cable and pulley steering is the only type of system allowed as it it basically fool proof and easily inspected. The difference is that raceboats use a steering bar which is bolted to the back of the engine and bend around as far as the swivel tube, as seen here on my Chrysler 105hp powered Class F Racing runabout. No spring is needed here becuase the tension remains the same if the engine is tilted up.
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c191/floridaboy2053/ Chrysler%20105%20running/Chrysler105runningatramp.jpg
Tom W Clark posted 06-17-2011 12:41 PM ET (US)
Straight from the 1968 Boston Whaler Owner's Manual:

quote:
PULLEY STEERING - 13'
Use a single, not a double, tiller-rope spring. Two springs, particularly weak ones, seriously reduce operator's control over the engine and even permit it to oscillate from side to side. (Standard equipment on 13 Sports Model now includes toggle tightener and one spring, all rigged on starboard side.)
Use a single, strong spring on STARBOARD SIDE ONLY. A spring on the port side can stretch and permit unexpected oversteer in a port turn if the boat skids and then grabs slightly. This possibility is present in a port turn only because the operator is apt to be sitting to starboard and opposing the normal banking of the boat with his weight. If the tiller rope on the port is solid, this oversteering can't take place.
Adding pulleys at the motor for "half-time" steering is not acceptable on 13-foot Whalers. Slow or half-time steering means that, when an operator has committed to a turn and any little thing going wrong calls for a correction, it is a far less automatic reaction and he is less apt to be able to make it. The 13' Whaler with a 30 or 40-hp engine mounted is hot and quick and perfectly safe in the hands of someone with a sober intent and decent reactions. It is NOT proof against goof-up by someone inexperienced and prevented by sluggish steering from proper boat feel.
The toggle tightener, when clamped, should compress the spring about 1/2 to 3/4 of its open length. This insures proper tension and precise steering. Release the toggle when the engine is tilted to avoid overstressing the steering components.
Tom W Clark posted 06-17-2011 12:49 PM ET (US)
Correction: That quote is from the Owner's Manual published in 1970.
tjxtreme posted 06-17-2011 01:51 PM ET (US)
Wow, that writing style seems like it is from another century. I interpret the verbose sentence explaining "half time" steering to mean that it makes the steering less sensitive- is this what they mean?
I have mine rigged to a 2007 Yamaha 4 stroke 20hp, it has an adapter plate, one spring, and pulleys at the motor. I will try to post pictures if I get a chance.
tjxtreme posted 06-17-2011 01:51 PM ET (US)
Duh... correction- the 1800s.
Tom W Clark posted 06-17-2011 02:35 PM ET (US)
That is the voice of Dick Fisher himself. The catalogs from the 1960s are full of those editorial comments and bon mot. I love them.
"half time" = 2:1 mechanical advantage.
Binkster posted 06-17-2011 10:05 PM ET (US)
I don`t get any oscillating back and forth using two springs on my 4 stroke 25 or my 2 stroke 1961 75hp Evinrude V-4 at all. Maybe the springs they used back in the 60's were not as stiff as modern ones. No way I could compress the spring(s) half way let alone 3/4 way with modern springs. If I did and used one spring and compressed it 3/4 way the cable would be as tight as a guitar string, and I probably couldn't tilt the motor at all. Things that were the norm 40 years ago may not be relevant today. I'm didn't say I recomended using springs made 45 years ago, new ones are available in marine parts stores and are stainless steel. I remember back in the day the springs would rust and corrode.
contender posted 06-17-2011 10:49 PM ET (US)
The way I had it on my 1962 13 whaler was two springs and one of them had a cam lock (passenger side) to release the tension on the steering cable when you wanted to tilt the engine...Could it be that different boat places rigged them different? One/two springs?
pcrussell50 posted 06-17-2011 11:06 PM ET (US)

quote:
Correction: That quote is from the Owner's Manual published in 1970.
Speaking of 70's lingo, the Seloc manual* for the one of the popular motors for early classic Whalers, has a passage where the author warns about a tempting technique that in reality is dangerous to the mechanic and ruinous to the part. He advises:
"Such action would be a bad scene, a very bad scene".
I just love it. Talk about a sense of another era.
*Yeah, I know. It took me a while and work through the AOMCI to get hold of the factory manual.
-Peter
johnnylaing posted 06-18-2011 03:40 PM ET (US)
I'm still hoping for original pics that show detail...pad-eyes, links, etc. Sue from Twin-Cities sent a schematic.
tjxtreme posted 06-18-2011 06:07 PM ET (US)
http://s1022.photobucket.com/albums/af349/tjxtreme/ Wire%20rope%20steering/
Here are a few pics of my setup, which is by no means perfect. I have it set up with the pulleys at the motor, because thats how it was when I got it. It is 2.5 wheel turns for the whole range of steering. It came with two springs, but I removed the port spring when I replaced the wire rope.
The tension changes considerably depending on the tilt of the motor, so you will have to play around with it to find the right tension that will work for planing and tilted/shallow cruising.
The connections between the pulleys are just whatever I had around, I don't think it really matters as long as it performs well and you INSPECT IT FREQUENTLY.
Binkster posted 06-18-2011 07:00 PM ET (US)
(The tension changes considerably depending on the tilt of the motor)
That is becuase you are using the old spring with only 8 coils. Look at the coils in my photo (12 coils and stainless steel) big difference. Check my photo. Also you should be using 2 springs. You removed one spring becuase Tom unintentionally "steered"(pun intended) you wrong. with two larger springs you can tighten down at the tightest position and it will stay tight even when you change positions.
Don`t sweat it though, your only using a 20hp motor.
I don`t think Dick fisher wrote the "bible" on cable and pulley steering. Its been around alot longer than he has been.
johnnylaing posted 06-23-2011 12:24 AM ET (US)
Will I be ok without the "gear down" pulleys at the motor? I'm using a 25 hp...it sure would clean up the installation.
Binkster posted 06-23-2011 08:46 AM ET (US)
You could try it and see how it works. I believe without those pulleys you will need more cable, and that would be a pain to change and more expense, and maybe not work as well. I never tried it that way. Faster, harder steering may not be advantageous.
Binkster posted 06-23-2011 08:49 AM ET (US)
I meant to say if you terminate the cable at the motor hookup and it doesn't work out you will have to buy more cable to go back to original.
tjxtreme posted 06-23-2011 09:47 AM ET (US)
Binkie- can you suggest a source for the bigger springs?
johnnylaing posted 06-23-2011 05:45 PM ET (US)
I have the old cable that I can try it with before I commit to a length. Does anyone really know how it will handle/steer under power? It seems ok at rest.
tjxtreme posted 06-23-2011 09:22 PM ET (US)
"Does anyone really know how it will handle/steer under power?"
What do you mean? Wire rope steering in general? Your specific setup?
Binkster posted 06-23-2011 10:52 PM ET (US)
I found the bigger springs at a marine parts store.
jimh posted 06-23-2011 11:37 PM ET (US)
Move to REPAIRS/MODS.
johnnylaing posted 06-24-2011 02:07 AM ET (US)
My specific configuration. Does anyone have a boat with 3 pulleys (none at the motor) as they were with a 1968 whaler 13?
Binkster posted 06-24-2011 09:16 AM ET (US)
You may have to pioneer that setup, I`ve never seen it.

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Author	Topic: Wire Rope and Pulley Steering
johnnylaing	posted 06-16-2011 02:15 AM ET (US) My [1968--pleaese use four digits for years--jimh] [Boston Whaler] 13 has two padeyes on Starboard and one on Port. How do I install [wire rope] and pulley steering with one Starboard spring, as is Whaler's recommendation? It seems like I'll need an additional padeye on each side to terminate the 3/16-inch wire rope, but maybe I'm missing something. Possibly this was a tiller steer boat. Also do the pulleys attach directly to the pad-eye or use some type connector? [Seeks] pictures from an original [wire rope and pulley steering installation on a classic Boston Whaler 13-footer]. I'm not doing Teleflex. thank you!
goldstem	posted 06-16-2011 11:57 AM ET (US) [T]he cables can terminate at the motor. [I] don't honestly recall if that is how [Boston Whaler] did it [as it has] been too long since I rigged that cable steering.
pcrussell50	posted 06-16-2011 02:02 PM ET (US) quote: [Seeks] pictures from an original [wire rope and pulley steering installation on a classic Boston Whaler 13-footer]. I'm not doing Teleflex. Good on you for keeping it real! I don't know what it is about boats that makes me like classic stuff. I don't feel that way about cars, where I like the new stuff. Not to mention that there's there's a crude, rugged, reliable practicality in rope and pulley. Good features in a boat. Particularly a salt water boat. Anyway, well done. -Peter
Tom W Clark	posted 06-16-2011 02:17 PM ET (US) The padeyes are for the pulleys, not for terminating the cable. Two pulleys on the starboard side and one pulley on the port side. The cable ends terminate at the motor with the starboard end terminating at the single spring attached to the motor.
Tom W Clark	posted 06-16-2011 02:26 PM ET (US) Actually looking back though the catalogs, I see that by the 1970's Boston Whaler added pulleys to the motor attachment to "gear down" the steering. On those boat there was an extra pad eye on each side of the boat.
johnnylaing	posted 06-16-2011 02:46 PM ET (US) I'm following. And the connection to the pad-eyes? I have three pulleys that are contained in a flat steel bracket(no swivel) and two (that attach to the motor bracket) that have a swivel hook. Thanks in advance for the help, and pics would be great! I've looked and looked to find an original picture showing the rigging.
Tom W Clark	posted 06-16-2011 03:03 PM ET (US) Thimble and two cable clamps on each end.
johnnylaing	posted 06-16-2011 03:18 PM ET (US) OK--at the two ends. Starboard: spring,thimble,two clamps Port: thimble, two clamps What I was not specific about was the three pulleys- how do they attach to the pad-eyes? I just did a dry fit and it appears they will not have much clearance without some kind of link. Again, anyone, are there any pictures in existence to share?
jimh	posted 06-16-2011 04:45 PM ET (US) View: http://continuouswave.com/whaler/cetacea/images/82/ 2dutchHarborWhaler811x606.jpg which comes from http://continuouswave.com/whaler/cetacea/cetaceaPage82.html
Binkster	posted 06-16-2011 11:12 PM ET (US) http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c191/floridaboy2053/rearpulleyhookup. jpg
pcrussell50	posted 06-16-2011 11:18 PM ET (US) Nice, Binks. Classic'o'rama. My old Big Twin,'59 Super Seahorse 35hp, had a similar looking, quarter-turn-fastener attaching to the "handle" on the front of the engine. Of course, most of the cabling was hidden underneath the gunwales and the splashwell on the semi-finned fiberglass runabout. -Peter
Binkster	posted 06-16-2011 11:45 PM ET (US) A cleaner looking setup with a 2008 Merc 25 4 stroke on a 6" setback bracket. http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c191/floridaboy2053/ Whaler%20with%20Mercury/Whalermerc5.jpg
Binkster	posted 06-16-2011 11:53 PM ET (US) 90 degree coaming pulleys (raceboat hardware, not original Whaler junk). http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c191/floridaboy2053/ Whaler%20with%20Mercury/Whalermerc6.jpg
pcrussell50	posted 06-16-2011 11:55 PM ET (US) Did you have to drill into the modern Merc to attach the steering bracket? -Peter
johnnylaing	posted 06-17-2011 12:44 AM ET (US) I notice two springs while Whaler says one on starboard, so...one or two springs? Thanks for all the replies...
Binkster	posted 06-17-2011 07:53 AM ET (US) Peter No there are two convenient tapped holes that I just bolted a homemade connector to made out of 3/8" aluminum angle. Don't remember what the holes are for. johnny Either way will work. The spring is for keeping tension on the cable and to let it "stretch" when the motor is tilted. I find two springs let you keep better tension on the cable with the setback bracket. some may say that one spring is better becuase there is less chance that the motor can slightly move back and forth when running, but I have never noticed anything like that. There is no torque steer when using cable and pulley steering. The wheel won't turn if you remove your hand when running. On outboard powered raceboats, cable and pulley steering is the only type of system allowed as it it basically fool proof and easily inspected. The difference is that raceboats use a steering bar which is bolted to the back of the engine and bend around as far as the swivel tube, as seen here on my Chrysler 105hp powered Class F Racing runabout. No spring is needed here becuase the tension remains the same if the engine is tilted up. http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c191/floridaboy2053/ Chrysler%20105%20running/Chrysler105runningatramp.jpg
Tom W Clark	posted 06-17-2011 12:41 PM ET (US) Straight from the 1968 Boston Whaler Owner's Manual: quote: PULLEY STEERING - 13' Use a single, not a double, tiller-rope spring. Two springs, particularly weak ones, seriously reduce operator's control over the engine and even permit it to oscillate from side to side. (Standard equipment on 13 Sports Model now includes toggle tightener and one spring, all rigged on starboard side.) Use a single, strong spring on STARBOARD SIDE ONLY. A spring on the port side can stretch and permit unexpected oversteer in a port turn if the boat skids and then grabs slightly. This possibility is present in a port turn only because the operator is apt to be sitting to starboard and opposing the normal banking of the boat with his weight. If the tiller rope on the port is solid, this oversteering can't take place. Adding pulleys at the motor for "half-time" steering is not acceptable on 13-foot Whalers. Slow or half-time steering means that, when an operator has committed to a turn and any little thing going wrong calls for a correction, it is a far less automatic reaction and he is less apt to be able to make it. The 13' Whaler with a 30 or 40-hp engine mounted is hot and quick and perfectly safe in the hands of someone with a sober intent and decent reactions. It is NOT proof against goof-up by someone inexperienced and prevented by sluggish steering from proper boat feel. The toggle tightener, when clamped, should compress the spring about 1/2 to 3/4 of its open length. This insures proper tension and precise steering. Release the toggle when the engine is tilted to avoid overstressing the steering components.
Tom W Clark	posted 06-17-2011 12:49 PM ET (US) Correction: That quote is from the Owner's Manual published in 1970.
tjxtreme	posted 06-17-2011 01:51 PM ET (US) Wow, that writing style seems like it is from another century. I interpret the verbose sentence explaining "half time" steering to mean that it makes the steering less sensitive- is this what they mean? I have mine rigged to a 2007 Yamaha 4 stroke 20hp, it has an adapter plate, one spring, and pulleys at the motor. I will try to post pictures if I get a chance.
tjxtreme	posted 06-17-2011 01:51 PM ET (US) Duh... correction- the 1800s.
Tom W Clark	posted 06-17-2011 02:35 PM ET (US) That is the voice of Dick Fisher himself. The catalogs from the 1960s are full of those editorial comments and bon mot. I love them. "half time" = 2:1 mechanical advantage.
Binkster	posted 06-17-2011 10:05 PM ET (US) I don`t get any oscillating back and forth using two springs on my 4 stroke 25 or my 2 stroke 1961 75hp Evinrude V-4 at all. Maybe the springs they used back in the 60's were not as stiff as modern ones. No way I could compress the spring(s) half way let alone 3/4 way with modern springs. If I did and used one spring and compressed it 3/4 way the cable would be as tight as a guitar string, and I probably couldn't tilt the motor at all. Things that were the norm 40 years ago may not be relevant today. I'm didn't say I recomended using springs made 45 years ago, new ones are available in marine parts stores and are stainless steel. I remember back in the day the springs would rust and corrode.
contender	posted 06-17-2011 10:49 PM ET (US) The way I had it on my 1962 13 whaler was two springs and one of them had a cam lock (passenger side) to release the tension on the steering cable when you wanted to tilt the engine...Could it be that different boat places rigged them different? One/two springs?
pcrussell50	posted 06-17-2011 11:06 PM ET (US) quote: Correction: That quote is from the Owner's Manual published in 1970. Speaking of 70's lingo, the Seloc manual* for the one of the popular motors for early classic Whalers, has a passage where the author warns about a tempting technique that in reality is dangerous to the mechanic and ruinous to the part. He advises: "Such action would be a bad scene, a very bad scene". I just love it. Talk about a sense of another era. *Yeah, I know. It took me a while and work through the AOMCI to get hold of the factory manual. -Peter
johnnylaing	posted 06-18-2011 03:40 PM ET (US) I'm still hoping for original pics that show detail...pad-eyes, links, etc. Sue from Twin-Cities sent a schematic.
tjxtreme	posted 06-18-2011 06:07 PM ET (US) http://s1022.photobucket.com/albums/af349/tjxtreme/ Wire%20rope%20steering/ Here are a few pics of my setup, which is by no means perfect. I have it set up with the pulleys at the motor, because thats how it was when I got it. It is 2.5 wheel turns for the whole range of steering. It came with two springs, but I removed the port spring when I replaced the wire rope. The tension changes considerably depending on the tilt of the motor, so you will have to play around with it to find the right tension that will work for planing and tilted/shallow cruising. The connections between the pulleys are just whatever I had around, I don't think it really matters as long as it performs well and you INSPECT IT FREQUENTLY.
Binkster	posted 06-18-2011 07:00 PM ET (US) (The tension changes considerably depending on the tilt of the motor) That is becuase you are using the old spring with only 8 coils. Look at the coils in my photo (12 coils and stainless steel) big difference. Check my photo. Also you should be using 2 springs. You removed one spring becuase Tom unintentionally "steered"(pun intended) you wrong. with two larger springs you can tighten down at the tightest position and it will stay tight even when you change positions. Don`t sweat it though, your only using a 20hp motor. I don`t think Dick fisher wrote the "bible" on cable and pulley steering. Its been around alot longer than he has been.
johnnylaing	posted 06-23-2011 12:24 AM ET (US) Will I be ok without the "gear down" pulleys at the motor? I'm using a 25 hp...it sure would clean up the installation.
Binkster	posted 06-23-2011 08:46 AM ET (US) You could try it and see how it works. I believe without those pulleys you will need more cable, and that would be a pain to change and more expense, and maybe not work as well. I never tried it that way. Faster, harder steering may not be advantageous.
Binkster	posted 06-23-2011 08:49 AM ET (US) I meant to say if you terminate the cable at the motor hookup and it doesn't work out you will have to buy more cable to go back to original.
tjxtreme	posted 06-23-2011 09:47 AM ET (US) Binkie- can you suggest a source for the bigger springs?
johnnylaing	posted 06-23-2011 05:45 PM ET (US) I have the old cable that I can try it with before I commit to a length. Does anyone really know how it will handle/steer under power? It seems ok at rest.
tjxtreme	posted 06-23-2011 09:22 PM ET (US) "Does anyone really know how it will handle/steer under power?" What do you mean? Wire rope steering in general? Your specific setup?
Binkster	posted 06-23-2011 10:52 PM ET (US) I found the bigger springs at a marine parts store.
jimh	posted 06-23-2011 11:37 PM ET (US) Move to REPAIRS/MODS.
johnnylaing	posted 06-24-2011 02:07 AM ET (US) My specific configuration. Does anyone have a boat with 3 pulleys (none at the motor) as they were with a 1968 whaler 13?
Binkster	posted 06-24-2011 09:16 AM ET (US) You may have to pioneer that setup, I`ve never seen it.