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Author Topic:   190 NANTUCKET Trailer Tire Failures

devildogs posted 08-27-2011 03:41 PM ET (US)
I towed our 190 Nantucket from San Diego to Lake Michigan on the factory Karavan single axle trailer. Before leaving I put on two new Tow Master tires, new fenders, and new light emitting diodes [trailer lamps]. [There were] no [trailer tire failures in] getting to Michigan. The trip home was quite eventful. At 45 miles east of Albuquerque the right tire de-treaded, destroying the fender as it went. Discount Tire in Albuquerque replaced [the tire] and filed a claim for the fender. They said the [left] tire looked good. But, when we were 45 miles north of Phoenix, [left] tire did the same thing, [that is, it de-treaded]. Discount Tire in Glendale, Arizona replaced [the second trailer tire]. They also said that a second tire failure and claim would raise a red flag with the manufacturer.
The tires were properly inflated, and, as I also had the truck camper in the bed, [I] kept speed to 60-MPH. Thankfully, we had no other [trailer tire failures].
I would like to upgrade to larger wheels and perhaps ST or LT rated tires for long distance towing. [Give me] recommendations [for what larger size wheel and what tire rating to choose for the upgrade]. I will also be adding steel fenders to accomodate the larger tire size. It looks like the hull will clear [the larger fenders].
jimh posted 08-27-2011 04:55 PM ET (US)
Most trailer tires are only rated for a speed of 55-MPH. If you were driving significantly faster, you probably exceeded the rated speed for the trailer tires. Did you limit the speed to 60-MPH only after the tire failures?
devildogs posted 08-27-2011 05:05 PM ET (US)
The tires are rated for 60 mph, only exceeded that for passing twice - big rigs on steep inclines. The 105+ ambient temp probably didn't help, especially on black asphalt!
6992WHALER posted 08-27-2011 06:15 PM ET (US)
Did you ever check the tires during the trip to see if they were running Hot?
What size and capacity are the tires that failed?
Jefecinco posted 08-27-2011 06:58 PM ET (US)
To tow at faster speeds consider mounting truck radial tires.
Butch
contender posted 08-27-2011 09:25 PM ET (US)
What size tires? I have always recommended to go to larger size tires on this site. Larger tires are always better, run better, ride better, safer. It also does sound like you may have gotten a bad batch of tires. Sorry for your problems, things like this always put a damper on a vacation.
Chuck Tribolet posted 08-28-2011 10:21 AM ET (US)
What's the load rating of those Tow Master tires?
What's the weight of your trailer?
Are the tires only rated for 60 MPH? I'd be surprised, given
there are states where it's legal to tow at 75 MPH, maybe
more.

Chuck
jimh posted 08-28-2011 11:37 AM ET (US)
Here is a listing of towing regulations, including maximum towing speed, for each state:
http://www.towingworld.com/articles/TowingLaws.htm
In Michigan the maximum highway speed when towing a trailer is 55-MPH. This is generally completely ignored by highway drivers. I typically tow at around 55-MPH to 60-MPH, and I am continually passed by every other vehicle on the road in Michigan, including everyone else towing a trailer, and often by people towing trailers at very high speeds, 70-MPH or more.
There seems to be an inverse relationship between tire size and towing speed, that is, the smaller the trailer tires the faster the drivers of those towing vehicles think they can drive. Of course, the smaller the tire diameter the faster the rotational speed for a given highway speed, leading to a greater chance of tire failure.
Tire inflation pressure is critical to keeping tire temperature low. I try to check and inflate my trailer tires to the maximum permitted pressure before any long tow.
Road surface temperature and sun lighting will increase tire temperature. I measure tire temperature often, and it is not unusual to see a 10-degree difference between the tires on sunlight side and the shaded sides. An under-inflated tire will always run hotter, too.
Buckda posted 08-28-2011 07:42 PM ET (US)
The Airstream guys seem to think that Towmaster tires are better quality than the venerable Goodyear Marathons that many here recommend. I'm surprised you had such complete failure (both tires)....but it does sound like it may have been heat related. Let us know: did you check tire pressure before beginning each day's tow? Did you check the tires and hubs for heat build up at your stops? I'm sure the guys at the factory will want to see both tires to figure out what happened, because the 190 Nantucket isn't a really heavy load...
Jefecinco posted 08-28-2011 07:50 PM ET (US)
A very useful feature of truck radial tires is the choices of different load ratings which are not always available on trailer tires. Load range D or E should, in most cases, allow sufficient reserve weight capacity to allow towing at highway speed limits. At one point I had a tandem trailer with 15 inch Goodyear Marathon radial tires. They were available in load range E which was my choice. They took me from Washington, DC to Carmel, CA and back to DC via Albuguerque, NM during the heat of the summer without a whimper. This was in 1983 -1985 so the tires are no doubt quite different now. A reason I chose Marathons were their availability in load range E. I'm not sure every trailer tire manufacturer offers such choices.
I always inflate the tires on the trailer to the maximum recommended pressure indicated on the tire sidewall. The objective is to limit heat generated by excessive sidewall flexing.
If your trailer geometry will allow larger tires of 15 or 16 inches that is a plus. We all realize that smaller tires make more revolutions per mile than do larger ones. ie. Smaller tires turn faster thus generating more heat due to more flexing per mile.
Butch
Hoosier posted 08-28-2011 08:22 PM ET (US)
The trailer towing speed in Michigan is the posted speed limit for the road you're on. So on I-75 and other freeways you can tow at 70.
http://continuouswave.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/017095.html
Interestingly, that CW link was at the top of the list when I did the Google search.
L H G posted 08-29-2011 01:53 AM ET (US)
Getting back to Devildog's original question, I would recommend that you stay with the 14" wheels and fenders.
Assuming the two tires were not simply defective, it sounds like your problems with these bias tires was either heat or overload, or both combined.
I would go to heavier duty radials. You have two choices to fit the 14" wheels:
1. Goodyear Marathons size ST215 75 R14, as opposed to the original ST 205's. These will give you extra carrying capacity. I am currently running these with good experience.
2. For really heavy duty radial trailer tires, consider the ST205 75 R14 Kumho Radial 857s. These are load range D tires (instad of the usual Load rage C), and carry 2250# each @ 65# psi, giving you a huge margin of safety compared to the noarmal rating of 1760# for that size.
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=Kumho&tireModel=Radial+ 857
Because of your experiences, I would go with #2.
Stay away from Carlisle radials. I had four of them all fail in rapid succession under my 25 Outrage after about 4000 miles of use. Never again! I'm told Carlisle bias tires are much better in this case, according to one of their dealers. He confirmed a lot of problems with the radials.
Unless you go up to 6 lug 15" wheels with 225 size tires, switching to 5 lug 15's gives no advantage over what I have listed.
Whalrman posted 08-29-2011 09:07 AM ET (US)
After haveing to deal with the same thing 2 weeks ago, I can relate to it. Tires on my EZ Loader trailer were GoodYear Marathons ST 215 75 R14 Load range C with max. load range of 1870 lbs. @50 psi. 97% of my trailering is local and once a year go to the lake which is about a 3 hour drive. I do keep tires at max.pressures and cover them when not in use,Fl. sun kills tires. Tires came with the trailer in 2007 of which my 1990 19' Outrage rests appon,with a 1/4 tank of fuel and only life jackets,flares,and empty cooler in the boat. The rest was in the truck, including the spare trailer tire and jack.The RH tire blew out thru the tread at 60-65mph. This was a late afternoon probblem and on a Friday to boot. Was able to find a tire store and replaced both tires, I figured that age was a factor and why chance it again. Anyway, the store put on "Commodore" tires of same specifications. I did check the tires on the trailer and truck just about 30 mins prior to the blow out, they were abit on the warm side as was the truck tires were too. Daytime temps. were 93 and as alway very humid.I did notice that on the tire that I kept that it was "made in CHINA"! Hmmm. I did think about the load range as I was driving to our destination afterward and thought that a "D" or "E" would be better would be better suited.
Ridge Runner posted 08-29-2011 09:31 PM ET (US)
I replaced my 2005 Montauk 170's ST175/80C-13 OEM Loadstar trailer tires with ST195/R/14 Kumho Radial 857s. The 195's are made in Korea; the Kumho in size 205's are made in China. This upgrade took tire revolutions down to 797 per mile from 848 - reducing the rev's 51 per mile, which seems significant. The load range went from C – 1360Lbs to D – 2094 Lbs. The Kumho’s have a Q-speed rating which is 99mph. The improvement was very noticeable. I purchased the tires from the tirerack.com.
jimh posted 08-30-2011 09:31 AM ET (US)
Based on many recent postings on many websites, I would avoid Goodyear Marathon Trailer Radials like the plague. There are so many threads with complaints about Goodyear Marathon radials that it seems reasonable to assume there has a been a significant decline in the quality of those tires. Ten years ago the Goodyear Marathon Special Trailer radial was the gold standard of trailer tires, but I think there are now more threads complaining about Goodyear than there are complaining about Carlisle.
Threads complaining about trailer tire failure are common, and typically assign the blame to the tire manufacturer. I suspect that the particular trailer, wheel mounting, load, and driving habits may also affect the tire life. I do a fair amount of trailer hauling, and I have used Goodyear, Carlisle, and Tow Master tires. I have not had a failure of any tire on the road. I have replaced tires due to tread wear, but I have not seen any delamination or loss of tread on any of the three brands I have used.
There seems to be a trend toward boutique and expensive Japanese brand trailer tires with much higher ratings. I suspect that the higher rating may affect the service life in a positive way if put into service with lower loads. Trailer tires are best replaced every five years without regard to tread wear. Most trailers spend their lives sitting, and many sit outdoors in the sun. Tires will degrade in those conditions.
jimh posted 08-30-2011 09:36 AM ET (US)
Thanks for the pointer to the thread on Michigan speed limits. It is a good reminder that secondary sources of information, such as the collection of trailer laws by state I mentioned above, are not always accurate, and the best source of information about laws and regulations is a primary source, that is, the actual language of the law or regulation itself. The cited article quoted the actual regulation of the State of Michigan. Thanks, again.
jimh posted 08-30-2011 09:40 AM ET (US)
Here is a link to TIRERACK.COM and their Kumho trailer tires:
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=Kumho&tireModel=Radial+ 857&sidewall=Blackwall&partnum=0R4857&tab=Sizes
jimh posted 08-30-2011 09:42 AM ET (US)
And to TIRERACK.COM and Goodyear Radial ST:
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=Goodyear& tireModel=Marathon+Radial&sidewall=Blackwall&partnum=075R4MAR6V2& tab=Sizes
jimh posted 08-30-2011 09:45 AM ET (US)
Are there any special considerations needed to inflate the Kumho tires to their recommended 65-PSI? For example, can standard wheels and Schrader valves accommodate this much pressure?
meridian posted 08-30-2011 04:37 PM ET (US)
When I had my Kumho's mounted the tire guy said I did not neeed the heavy duty valve stems for the 65# pressure. My buddy carries 120# on his 5th wheel RV.

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Author	Topic: 190 NANTUCKET Trailer Tire Failures
devildogs	posted 08-27-2011 03:41 PM ET (US) I towed our 190 Nantucket from San Diego to Lake Michigan on the factory Karavan single axle trailer. Before leaving I put on two new Tow Master tires, new fenders, and new light emitting diodes [trailer lamps]. [There were] no [trailer tire failures in] getting to Michigan. The trip home was quite eventful. At 45 miles east of Albuquerque the right tire de-treaded, destroying the fender as it went. Discount Tire in Albuquerque replaced [the tire] and filed a claim for the fender. They said the [left] tire looked good. But, when we were 45 miles north of Phoenix, [left] tire did the same thing, [that is, it de-treaded]. Discount Tire in Glendale, Arizona replaced [the second trailer tire]. They also said that a second tire failure and claim would raise a red flag with the manufacturer. The tires were properly inflated, and, as I also had the truck camper in the bed, [I] kept speed to 60-MPH. Thankfully, we had no other [trailer tire failures]. I would like to upgrade to larger wheels and perhaps ST or LT rated tires for long distance towing. [Give me] recommendations [for what larger size wheel and what tire rating to choose for the upgrade]. I will also be adding steel fenders to accomodate the larger tire size. It looks like the hull will clear [the larger fenders].
jimh	posted 08-27-2011 04:55 PM ET (US) Most trailer tires are only rated for a speed of 55-MPH. If you were driving significantly faster, you probably exceeded the rated speed for the trailer tires. Did you limit the speed to 60-MPH only after the tire failures?
devildogs	posted 08-27-2011 05:05 PM ET (US) The tires are rated for 60 mph, only exceeded that for passing twice - big rigs on steep inclines. The 105+ ambient temp probably didn't help, especially on black asphalt!
6992WHALER	posted 08-27-2011 06:15 PM ET (US) Did you ever check the tires during the trip to see if they were running Hot? What size and capacity are the tires that failed?
Jefecinco	posted 08-27-2011 06:58 PM ET (US) To tow at faster speeds consider mounting truck radial tires. Butch
contender	posted 08-27-2011 09:25 PM ET (US) What size tires? I have always recommended to go to larger size tires on this site. Larger tires are always better, run better, ride better, safer. It also does sound like you may have gotten a bad batch of tires. Sorry for your problems, things like this always put a damper on a vacation.
Chuck Tribolet	posted 08-28-2011 10:21 AM ET (US) What's the load rating of those Tow Master tires? What's the weight of your trailer? Are the tires only rated for 60 MPH? I'd be surprised, given there are states where it's legal to tow at 75 MPH, maybe more. Chuck
jimh	posted 08-28-2011 11:37 AM ET (US) Here is a listing of towing regulations, including maximum towing speed, for each state: http://www.towingworld.com/articles/TowingLaws.htm In Michigan the maximum highway speed when towing a trailer is 55-MPH. This is generally completely ignored by highway drivers. I typically tow at around 55-MPH to 60-MPH, and I am continually passed by every other vehicle on the road in Michigan, including everyone else towing a trailer, and often by people towing trailers at very high speeds, 70-MPH or more. There seems to be an inverse relationship between tire size and towing speed, that is, the smaller the trailer tires the faster the drivers of those towing vehicles think they can drive. Of course, the smaller the tire diameter the faster the rotational speed for a given highway speed, leading to a greater chance of tire failure. Tire inflation pressure is critical to keeping tire temperature low. I try to check and inflate my trailer tires to the maximum permitted pressure before any long tow. Road surface temperature and sun lighting will increase tire temperature. I measure tire temperature often, and it is not unusual to see a 10-degree difference between the tires on sunlight side and the shaded sides. An under-inflated tire will always run hotter, too.
Buckda	posted 08-28-2011 07:42 PM ET (US) The Airstream guys seem to think that Towmaster tires are better quality than the venerable Goodyear Marathons that many here recommend. I'm surprised you had such complete failure (both tires)....but it does sound like it may have been heat related. Let us know: did you check tire pressure before beginning each day's tow? Did you check the tires and hubs for heat build up at your stops? I'm sure the guys at the factory will want to see both tires to figure out what happened, because the 190 Nantucket isn't a really heavy load...
Jefecinco	posted 08-28-2011 07:50 PM ET (US) A very useful feature of truck radial tires is the choices of different load ratings which are not always available on trailer tires. Load range D or E should, in most cases, allow sufficient reserve weight capacity to allow towing at highway speed limits. At one point I had a tandem trailer with 15 inch Goodyear Marathon radial tires. They were available in load range E which was my choice. They took me from Washington, DC to Carmel, CA and back to DC via Albuguerque, NM during the heat of the summer without a whimper. This was in 1983 -1985 so the tires are no doubt quite different now. A reason I chose Marathons were their availability in load range E. I'm not sure every trailer tire manufacturer offers such choices. I always inflate the tires on the trailer to the maximum recommended pressure indicated on the tire sidewall. The objective is to limit heat generated by excessive sidewall flexing. If your trailer geometry will allow larger tires of 15 or 16 inches that is a plus. We all realize that smaller tires make more revolutions per mile than do larger ones. ie. Smaller tires turn faster thus generating more heat due to more flexing per mile. Butch
Hoosier	posted 08-28-2011 08:22 PM ET (US) The trailer towing speed in Michigan is the posted speed limit for the road you're on. So on I-75 and other freeways you can tow at 70. http://continuouswave.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/017095.html Interestingly, that CW link was at the top of the list when I did the Google search.
L H G	posted 08-29-2011 01:53 AM ET (US) Getting back to Devildog's original question, I would recommend that you stay with the 14" wheels and fenders. Assuming the two tires were not simply defective, it sounds like your problems with these bias tires was either heat or overload, or both combined. I would go to heavier duty radials. You have two choices to fit the 14" wheels: 1. Goodyear Marathons size ST215 75 R14, as opposed to the original ST 205's. These will give you extra carrying capacity. I am currently running these with good experience. 2. For really heavy duty radial trailer tires, consider the ST205 75 R14 Kumho Radial 857s. These are load range D tires (instad of the usual Load rage C), and carry 2250# each @ 65# psi, giving you a huge margin of safety compared to the noarmal rating of 1760# for that size. http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=Kumho&tireModel=Radial+ 857 Because of your experiences, I would go with #2. Stay away from Carlisle radials. I had four of them all fail in rapid succession under my 25 Outrage after about 4000 miles of use. Never again! I'm told Carlisle bias tires are much better in this case, according to one of their dealers. He confirmed a lot of problems with the radials. Unless you go up to 6 lug 15" wheels with 225 size tires, switching to 5 lug 15's gives no advantage over what I have listed.
Whalrman	posted 08-29-2011 09:07 AM ET (US) After haveing to deal with the same thing 2 weeks ago, I can relate to it. Tires on my EZ Loader trailer were GoodYear Marathons ST 215 75 R14 Load range C with max. load range of 1870 lbs. @50 psi. 97% of my trailering is local and once a year go to the lake which is about a 3 hour drive. I do keep tires at max.pressures and cover them when not in use,Fl. sun kills tires. Tires came with the trailer in 2007 of which my 1990 19' Outrage rests appon,with a 1/4 tank of fuel and only life jackets,flares,and empty cooler in the boat. The rest was in the truck, including the spare trailer tire and jack.The RH tire blew out thru the tread at 60-65mph. This was a late afternoon probblem and on a Friday to boot. Was able to find a tire store and replaced both tires, I figured that age was a factor and why chance it again. Anyway, the store put on "Commodore" tires of same specifications. I did check the tires on the trailer and truck just about 30 mins prior to the blow out, they were abit on the warm side as was the truck tires were too. Daytime temps. were 93 and as alway very humid.I did notice that on the tire that I kept that it was "made in CHINA"! Hmmm. I did think about the load range as I was driving to our destination afterward and thought that a "D" or "E" would be better would be better suited.
Ridge Runner	posted 08-29-2011 09:31 PM ET (US) I replaced my 2005 Montauk 170's ST175/80C-13 OEM Loadstar trailer tires with ST195/R/14 Kumho Radial 857s. The 195's are made in Korea; the Kumho in size 205's are made in China. This upgrade took tire revolutions down to 797 per mile from 848 - reducing the rev's 51 per mile, which seems significant. The load range went from C – 1360Lbs to D – 2094 Lbs. The Kumho’s have a Q-speed rating which is 99mph. The improvement was very noticeable. I purchased the tires from the tirerack.com.
jimh	posted 08-30-2011 09:31 AM ET (US) Based on many recent postings on many websites, I would avoid Goodyear Marathon Trailer Radials like the plague. There are so many threads with complaints about Goodyear Marathon radials that it seems reasonable to assume there has a been a significant decline in the quality of those tires. Ten years ago the Goodyear Marathon Special Trailer radial was the gold standard of trailer tires, but I think there are now more threads complaining about Goodyear than there are complaining about Carlisle. Threads complaining about trailer tire failure are common, and typically assign the blame to the tire manufacturer. I suspect that the particular trailer, wheel mounting, load, and driving habits may also affect the tire life. I do a fair amount of trailer hauling, and I have used Goodyear, Carlisle, and Tow Master tires. I have not had a failure of any tire on the road. I have replaced tires due to tread wear, but I have not seen any delamination or loss of tread on any of the three brands I have used. There seems to be a trend toward boutique and expensive Japanese brand trailer tires with much higher ratings. I suspect that the higher rating may affect the service life in a positive way if put into service with lower loads. Trailer tires are best replaced every five years without regard to tread wear. Most trailers spend their lives sitting, and many sit outdoors in the sun. Tires will degrade in those conditions.
jimh	posted 08-30-2011 09:36 AM ET (US) Thanks for the pointer to the thread on Michigan speed limits. It is a good reminder that secondary sources of information, such as the collection of trailer laws by state I mentioned above, are not always accurate, and the best source of information about laws and regulations is a primary source, that is, the actual language of the law or regulation itself. The cited article quoted the actual regulation of the State of Michigan. Thanks, again.
jimh	posted 08-30-2011 09:40 AM ET (US) Here is a link to TIRERACK.COM and their Kumho trailer tires: http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=Kumho&tireModel=Radial+ 857&sidewall=Blackwall&partnum=0R4857&tab=Sizes
jimh	posted 08-30-2011 09:42 AM ET (US) And to TIRERACK.COM and Goodyear Radial ST: http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=Goodyear& tireModel=Marathon+Radial&sidewall=Blackwall&partnum=075R4MAR6V2& tab=Sizes
jimh	posted 08-30-2011 09:45 AM ET (US) Are there any special considerations needed to inflate the Kumho tires to their recommended 65-PSI? For example, can standard wheels and Schrader valves accommodate this much pressure?
meridian	posted 08-30-2011 04:37 PM ET (US) When I had my Kumho's mounted the tire guy said I did not neeed the heavy duty valve stems for the 65# pressure. My buddy carries 120# on his 5th wheel RV.