Gel Coat Resin or ALWGRIP Paint - Moderated Discussion Areas

  ContinuousWave
  Whaler
  Moderated Discussion Areas
  ContinuousWave: Whaler Repairs/Mods
  Gel Coat Resin or ALWGRIP Paint

search | FAQ | profile | register | author help

Author Topic:   Gel Coat Resin or ALWGRIP Paint

overawake posted 01-04-2012 10:19 PM ET (US)
I have a 1969 17-footer that needs work. [I may paint the hull with] AWLGRIP on the exterior hull and use gel coat resin for the interior. [I] plan to make the whole boat, in and out, Desert Tan . [T]he reason for using gel coat resin is the cheaper cost and more durable finish. [I] have learned [I] can't [paint] the exterior [with AWLGRIP] because [I] have done a recent West Systems barrier coating to it and would need to strip that all off. I am not interested in doing that. [Give me your] thoughts about [using AWLGRIP on the exterior of the hull and gel coat resin on the interior of the hull].
egres posted 01-05-2012 01:41 AM ET (US)
Since you are half way into your planned refit having worked on the interior
Why change your strategy now?
Carry on with the epoxy updating and shop for prices on two part epoxy paints, finish your project accordingly.
Next time a vinylester or Duratec primer could be used allowing you to re gel all surfaces without the usual epoxy gel coating complications.
Tohsgib posted 01-05-2012 01:37 PM ET (US)
Gel is not as easy as you think. Without perfect prepwork it can and will fall off the boat--literally. If Awlgrip is too much or not compatible use another 2 part like PPG. Heck you don't even need 2 part these days. I personally would stick with the blue.
overawake posted 01-05-2012 02:30 PM ET (US)
I like the blue myself but it is in pretty rough shape and i have had to do a few repairs to the deck so it needs to be coated with something new. As a fishing platform I am concerned about the brightness of the blue interior all day on the water. I also like the look of the desert tan, and think it should be easier to hid current repairs and future ones.
Who makes the best 2 part finish that is closest to the desert tan color?
thanks
matt
Blackduck posted 01-05-2012 02:35 PM ET (US)
Gel coat is not cheap, the hours of required labor are staggering. Stick with paint-
modenacart posted 01-05-2012 05:23 PM ET (US)
You will need to apply about 40 mils or more of gelcoat to have any left after you sand out the orange peel.
egres posted 01-05-2012 09:08 PM ET (US)
For your deck areas try the Awlgrip Oyster White color. Closest thing to the desert tan in a paint.
John W posted 01-05-2012 09:15 PM ET (US)
There are compatibility problems with gelcoat and epoxy (West System or otherwise), but Awlgrip painting over epoxy should not be a problem. The gelcoat would be where you need to be careful in gel coating over epoxy.
jimh posted 01-06-2012 09:15 AM ET (US)
AWLGRIP paint is expensive, and I would follow the recommended preparation of the surface that is to be painted with ALWGRIP. If the AWLGRIP paint cannot be applied over the existing surface of your hull, then it would be foolish to try. In all painting, preparation is about 90-percent of the work process. You will have to prepare the surface of the hull to receive any sort of top coat.
If you hull's current surface is not properly prepared for a paint like AWLGRIP, it may not be ready for any top coat.
tmann45 posted 01-06-2012 10:35 AM ET (US)
Contrary to popular belief, gelcoat can be successfully applied over epoxy with proper preparation according to West System testing.
http://www.westsystem.com/ss/polyester-over-epoxy/
Only problem with the article is I didn't see the details on proper preparation, since they are in another document that I did not look for.
17 bodega posted 01-06-2012 12:24 PM ET (US)
I have been down this road with a 1971 hull with the blue interior. I have had trouble getting polyester, epoxy, and paint to stick to the original Whaler gelcoat. I concur with all the above statements that diligent preparation must be done to the surface prior to applying a coating. In my opinion, part of the problem is the texure of the interior of the boat does not lend itself well to sanding or grinding. Epoxy is generally belived to be a stronger and more effective coating than polyester.
My interior has more "spider cracks" than any other boat I have seen. If this is your situation as well, I would be interested to see if you are able to find a coating that will permanently repair the cracking.
I believe the coating must have some flexibility to prevent the cracks from reappearing. Some believe the cracks are due to "flexing" of the deck under weight, and a hard epoxy coating will crack.
Good luck with your restoration. I will be doing this to my boat (again) this spring.
Steve
Binkster posted 01-06-2012 02:33 PM ET (US)
If you use AwlGrip you need to prime it first with AwlGrip 545 2 part epoxy primer. That will stick to anything. So in other words you can use AwlGrip over anything. What do you mean by a barrier coat.
acseatsri posted 01-06-2012 06:15 PM ET (US)
My boat was LOADED with spider racks after I replaced the plywood under the fuel tank cavity. I sanded all the non-skid texture off, then used Interlux 2-part epoxy primer THINNED out to almost water consistency for the first 2 coats (to fill in the cracks and re-bond any loose sections of gelcoat). After that, I did several more coats with the epoxy moderately thinned and sanded between coats until I was satisfied with the surface.
After this, I rolled 3 coats of Oyster white Perfection paint (with a foam roller) on the smooth sections and where the non-skid would go, sanding lightly betyween coats.
Finally, I taped off all the areas where the non-skid would go and put on another 2 coats of 1/2 Perfection & 1/2 flattening agent mixed with Intergrit.
It's been 4 seasons now and 800 hours on the engine and still holding up well. And when I installed an auxilary fuel tank and sealed up the fishwell, the paint was a perfect match to the then 3-year old finish.
If you're not a purist and just want a usable boat that looks decent and is easy to clean and keep looking decent, I would definitely go this route again.
17 bodega posted 01-06-2012 06:25 PM ET (US)
acseatsri,
I am intrigued by your story. I like your thinking of thinning the epoxy to fill the cracks and repeat layers for strength. Could you provide details of the thinning, and amounts as well as product names? Did you thin with acetone or thinner?
I am NOT a purist, nor can I be if I wanted to... I want a boat that dives and fishes good, that I can keep dry.
Thanks for sharing your info. I am OK with AWLGRIP too and the additional cost if necessary. My promise to myself is to do it correctly next time so a repeat won't be necessary for a long time.
Steve
acseatsri posted 01-09-2012 07:46 PM ET (US)
Steve--I used was Epoxy Primekote 404. The first two coats should be thinned to almost water consistency. This primer is almost always thinned. Expect a minimum of 4 coats with sanding after each coat except when thinned to water consistency. I used foam rollers for all painting- forget about brushes except cheapie chip brushes- NOTHING cleans them with this epoxy, so don't waste your time or money only to throw out the brushes after each use. Thin with 2333N solvent/reducer.
Again, I used Perfection paint with no thinning necessary for final coats- expect 2-3 finish coats, light sanding between coats. Comes to a nice gloss finish, no tipping necessary if you stay with their light colors. Oyster White is a little lighter than desert tan, cream looks almost yellow next to the desert tan. I started with cream and ended up painting over it with the white.
For the non-skid areas, tape off the areas you want to stay glossy and to give a clean transition line. I mixed the Perfection and flattening agent 50/50- It gave a nice semi-gloss non-reflective finsh. Add intergrit according to directions and your own judgment. The Intergrit leaves a finish of about 120 grit sandpaper- It's easy to clean, durable, and easy to touch up with a perfect match from can to can.
Re Awlgrip- Interlux was readily available and worked well. I would use the Interlux products again. I think they're both similar, but Interlux has always done well for me.

ocean31 posted 01-10-2012 07:37 AM ET (US)
Steve, Acseatsri hit on the mark with the interlux paints. Intelux is designed for home use. Awlgrip, Imron, Sterling they are all two part [unclear] paints, and as such they all have the durability you are looking for. Another [brand of paint] is Devo, They make an industrial two-part product. However the smallest amount I was able to find is the one-gallon kit, but fairly inexpensive, so you may want to look at it. I found Devo at a regular paint store.
I have never had a problem getting any product to stick to the West System barrier coat, as long as I sanded and primed the barrier coat first. The only time I have not primed the epoxy barrier coat is when I was covering it with antifouling paint, in that case I just sanded.
A couple more thoughts are and I apologize if I am telling you something you already know:

Make sure any foam brushes and rollers you use are suitable for epoxy and two part poly paints. The paint vehicle (solvent) in two parts is aggressive, and will melt cheap foam
As mentioned not worth cleaning foam brushes, just chuck them.
If you do not have or want to rent a sprayer, do not turn up your nose at the Preval spray bottles. They are available fairly cheap at any big box hardware store. I did the entire topside of a 30 foot sailboat with three bottles. The Preval spray bottles required a little more sanding afterwards compared to a HVLP gun, but not a lot of sanding.
You can try, but I never had any luck spraying two part paints with a electric sprayer. Just never could get them to work right.
We have two local boat yards here producing custom Sport Fishing boat, normally around 30-foot. Both yards do not use a color gel coat. For the inner mold they normally just shoot a base colorless gelcoat before the first layer of glass. Both yards finish all their new boats with a two part poly. Good luck--jsb
Binkster posted 01-10-2012 07:51 AM ET (US)
If you count on luck when applying high tech paint, it will always be bad luck. Use the equipment recommended by the manufactures and don't take shortcuts. If you have limited experience go with gel coat. You can always sand out your mistakes. When you apply/spray AwlGrip you can't sand out orange peel or runs. How it looks is how you apply it.
jtanner posted 01-10-2012 04:24 PM ET (US)
Here is where I have boat both gelcoat and awlgrip. they are pretty knowledgeable too. They have all colors of both gelcoat and awlgrip.
Alwgrip: http://www.bottompaintstore.com/ topside-boat-paint-awlgrip-marine-paint-c-13630_13683.html
Gelcoat: http://www.bottompaintstore.com/ fiberglass-and-gel-coat-repair-gelcoat-c-13581_13586.html
Binkster posted 01-10-2012 07:23 PM ET (US)
I see that you are affiliated with that company. I buy from Finishmasters Auto and Industrial Paint Co. They also sell AwlGrip, but I don't know about gelcoat. They generally sell to auto painters and body shops, and have the best prices I've seen, but I haven't needed to buy any AwlGrip in about three years, so I can't comment on prices. They are a national chain and have stores in most areas, so shipping is not usually needed. They also will match colors and mix custom colors.
dino54904 posted 01-12-2012 08:18 AM ET (US)
I used Awlgrip on my Outrage with excellent results. Start with losts of surface prep, then the primer, then two layers of Oyster White. After three years it has proven to be very durable. Use terrycloth covers on your fenders. And, use the Awlgrip soap and polish so it stays glossy.
Dino
17 bodega posted 01-12-2012 06:50 PM ET (US)
Thanks to all that responded to my post, and no intentions of hijacking the thread... hope the info is useful to the original poster. I'm excited to do this project. Most likely it will be after the rainy season, if we get one..
Thanks again. Fantastic information!
Steve
17 bodega posted 01-30-2012 12:58 AM ET (US)
UPDATE: I've used the INTERLUX primer recommended above and have so far seen great results. I have NOT quite gotten water consistency out of the reducer, but pretty close. I started with two quarts (in several applications) on the deck and am moving my way up the entire interior of the boat, sanding liberally between coats. I have only begun and will post some pictures to show the progress. I have purchased several products from Jamestown Distributors, which had the best overall prices and shipping policies.
All rails and screws on the interior have been removed. To repair holes, and other nastiness, I used WEST SYSTEM epoxy with some nice fiberglass chopped fibers. Talk about strong! I'm pleased thus far. I will post some pictures very soon.
Steve
jtanner posted 01-31-2012 07:02 PM ET (US)
Here is where I have boat both gelcoat and awlgrip. they are pretty knowledgeable too. They have all colors of both gelcoat and awlgrip.
Alwgrip: http://www.bottompaintstore.com/ topside-boat-paint-awlgrip-marine-paint-c-13630_13683.html
Gelcoat: http://www.bottompaintstore.com/ fiberglass-and-gel-coat-repair-gelcoat-c-13581_13586.html
dfmcintyre posted 01-31-2012 07:08 PM ET (US)
Uh, we got that message five posts earlier....
sdespop posted 02-03-2012 08:01 PM ET (US)
Last year I finished the exterior of my 15 Sport using Interlux 2000E primer (4 coats) and Interlux Perfection for the finish (3 coats). Easy application using the roller & tip method. Much less work than gelcoat. The major factor is the Perfection (and Awlgrip) are marketed as topside paints and should not be used below the waterline if the boat is left in the water for extended periods of time. Interlux customer support told me that the paint works well if the boat is not in the water for more than 72 hours at a time. Another consideration is the price. The primer was $100/gallon, the Perfection was $80/quart. Took me 1 gallon of primer and 2 quarts of Perfection to finish the job.
Binkster posted 02-04-2012 07:38 AM ET (US)
I am not familiar with Interlux Perfection. Is it a single stage paint, or is it like AwlGrip which is a polyurethane paint consisting of a top coat mixed with an equal amount of activator. AwlGrip primer is an epoxy mixed with an equal amount of epoxy activator. In addition each paint has its own thinner. so when you say you used a gallon of primer and two quarts of top coat, are you saying that its the total amount including activator or without activator if indeed it is a two part(stage) paint.
sdespop posted 02-04-2012 06:08 PM ET (US)
The Interlux primer & Perfection are both 2 part paints. The primer is a 3:1 mix, Perfection 2:1. I thinned the primer with lacquer thinner & did not need to thin the Perfection. You can see the results here http://www.whalercentral.com/infusions/personal_page/view_personal_page.php?user_id=17325
Binkster posted 02-04-2012 09:34 PM ET (US)
Nice looking job you did pop, I like the dark blue sides. BTW how many people does it take to roll over a 15 footer and place it back on the trailer upside down.
sdespop posted 02-04-2012 11:34 PM ET (US)
Thanks, still a lot of work to do. Gathered a crew of 6 to flip it.
17 bodega posted 02-04-2012 11:43 PM ET (US)
I also like the sides. The boat looks nice overall. Did you use some other product that turned the west system epoxy that tan color? Did you use the fiberglass chopped fibers or cloth for the repair?
I'm using the "primekote" 2 part primer, and making the repairs with west system. It probably wouldn't be a bad idea to flip mine but I don't feel like pulling the motor and all rigging. I will tape off everything and get her on blocks if when I'm ready to strip the bottom paint and smooth out any existing repairs.
Steve
sdespop posted 02-05-2012 12:01 AM ET (US)
The tan filler is from their 410 fairing additive. Makes a paste that's easy to spread & easy to sand. The beauty of West System is the variety of fillers for different applications. I used chop to fill the hole in the transom & cloth for keel repairs. Yet to do projects include new rubrail, bow & stern lights, Whaler decals in white, refinish the interior, add a stereo to the console.
Binkster posted 02-05-2012 10:55 PM ET (US)
Gathered a crew of 6 to flip it.
HMMM, Lets see now, all of my friends are old farts like myself, but with heart conditions, bad backs etc, most of the neighbors are on disability, lazy, or are popping some kind of pills, and are mostly incoherent.
69wailer posted 02-06-2012 03:51 PM ET (US)
[The author begins his article by saying he was] just quoted $1,000 to sand [unknown mark of punctuation deleted; perhaps meant to use a comma], fill, [and refinish with gel coat resin] above water line, and barrier coat with epoxy below the water line [the hull of a NAUSET 17]. Is [$1,000 a] reasonable [cost to sand, fill, and refinish with gel coat resin above the water line and barrier coat with exposy resin below the water on a 17-foot boat]? [The] boat is spiderweb-cracked all over; [the] bottom also has lots of small circular chips [like] chicken pox in some areas. I'm only furnishing the epoxy. [Thanks]
jimh posted 02-06-2012 08:41 PM ET (US)
What is the other material cost involved. Subtract those material costs from the $1,000 to find the labor cost. Then estimate the hours using a figure of $40/hour for the labor rate. If you think the labor hours are reasonable, then the quote is probably fair.
17 bodega posted 04-18-2012 11:47 PM ET (US)
I have some updated photographs of my 16 classic hull. The products I used were both by INTERLUX.
The first is the PRIMEKOTE as mentioned above. 2-4 coats with sanding in between. Some coats I thinned well, others I laid on very thick to fill problem areas.
The next set of photos is the final coat (I plan to roll on 1-2 more coats) of PERFECTION. The color is MATTERHORN WHITE, which looks like a very light grey.
Pictures Here:
http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j116/17bodega/New%20Whaler/ BostonPaintBow.jpg
I waited long periods of time between coats, and sanded generously. I hope this stuff will last. It's not perfect by any stretch of the imagination, but as long as it lasts and is durable, I will be pleased.
Steve
17 bodega posted 04-18-2012 11:49 PM ET (US)
Here is the link to the entire album with the "old blue" hull to compare to:
http://s78.photobucket.com/albums/j116/17bodega/New%20Whaler/
17 bodega posted 04-23-2012 12:38 AM ET (US)
http://s78.photobucket.com/albums/j116/17bodega/New%20Whaler/

I've added more photographs showing my [semi] finished boat. It's a large improvement, but will always be a "work boat", and never a cream puff. The bottom line is I slapped down some INTERLUX PRIMEKOTE, sanded between many coats, then slapped down two solid coats of PERFECTION on the deck, let her dry a couple of warm days and called it good. Matt (Placerville) welded together that awesome seat/leaning post that I butchered with my drunken upholstery job! It should comfort my hind quarters nicely though... it's marine grade vinyl that I attached with adhesive and stainless staples...
I will put one more coat of grey "deck paint" with non skid properties, also from INTERLUX, this one a one part application that claims to adhere to all substates... we will see.
I took her out on the water and had no immediate failures of the epoxy coatings, so we will see how my prep work and applications hold out.
It won't win any beauty contests but I'm fully stoked with the results.. function over form to say the least. I'm totally digging the seat with the rod and utility holders.
Happy boating and thanks to those who posted details of their restorations above!
Steve

Hop to:

Contact Us | RETURN to ContinuousWave Top Page

Powered by: Ultimate Bulletin Board, Freeware Version 2000
Purchase our Licensed Version- which adds many more features!
© Infopop Corporation (formerly Madrona Park, Inc.), 1998 - 2000.

Author	Topic: Gel Coat Resin or ALWGRIP Paint
overawake	posted 01-04-2012 10:19 PM ET (US) I have a 1969 17-footer that needs work. [I may paint the hull with] AWLGRIP on the exterior hull and use gel coat resin for the interior. [I] plan to make the whole boat, in and out, Desert Tan . [T]he reason for using gel coat resin is the cheaper cost and more durable finish. [I] have learned [I] can't [paint] the exterior [with AWLGRIP] because [I] have done a recent West Systems barrier coating to it and would need to strip that all off. I am not interested in doing that. [Give me your] thoughts about [using AWLGRIP on the exterior of the hull and gel coat resin on the interior of the hull].
egres	posted 01-05-2012 01:41 AM ET (US) Since you are half way into your planned refit having worked on the interior Why change your strategy now? Carry on with the epoxy updating and shop for prices on two part epoxy paints, finish your project accordingly. Next time a vinylester or Duratec primer could be used allowing you to re gel all surfaces without the usual epoxy gel coating complications.
Tohsgib	posted 01-05-2012 01:37 PM ET (US) Gel is not as easy as you think. Without perfect prepwork it can and will fall off the boat--literally. If Awlgrip is too much or not compatible use another 2 part like PPG. Heck you don't even need 2 part these days. I personally would stick with the blue.
overawake	posted 01-05-2012 02:30 PM ET (US) I like the blue myself but it is in pretty rough shape and i have had to do a few repairs to the deck so it needs to be coated with something new. As a fishing platform I am concerned about the brightness of the blue interior all day on the water. I also like the look of the desert tan, and think it should be easier to hid current repairs and future ones. Who makes the best 2 part finish that is closest to the desert tan color? thanks matt
Blackduck	posted 01-05-2012 02:35 PM ET (US) Gel coat is not cheap, the hours of required labor are staggering. Stick with paint-
modenacart	posted 01-05-2012 05:23 PM ET (US) You will need to apply about 40 mils or more of gelcoat to have any left after you sand out the orange peel.
egres	posted 01-05-2012 09:08 PM ET (US) For your deck areas try the Awlgrip Oyster White color. Closest thing to the desert tan in a paint.
John W	posted 01-05-2012 09:15 PM ET (US) There are compatibility problems with gelcoat and epoxy (West System or otherwise), but Awlgrip painting over epoxy should not be a problem. The gelcoat would be where you need to be careful in gel coating over epoxy.
jimh	posted 01-06-2012 09:15 AM ET (US) AWLGRIP paint is expensive, and I would follow the recommended preparation of the surface that is to be painted with ALWGRIP. If the AWLGRIP paint cannot be applied over the existing surface of your hull, then it would be foolish to try. In all painting, preparation is about 90-percent of the work process. You will have to prepare the surface of the hull to receive any sort of top coat. If you hull's current surface is not properly prepared for a paint like AWLGRIP, it may not be ready for any top coat.
tmann45	posted 01-06-2012 10:35 AM ET (US) Contrary to popular belief, gelcoat can be successfully applied over epoxy with proper preparation according to West System testing. http://www.westsystem.com/ss/polyester-over-epoxy/ Only problem with the article is I didn't see the details on proper preparation, since they are in another document that I did not look for.
17 bodega	posted 01-06-2012 12:24 PM ET (US) I have been down this road with a 1971 hull with the blue interior. I have had trouble getting polyester, epoxy, and paint to stick to the original Whaler gelcoat. I concur with all the above statements that diligent preparation must be done to the surface prior to applying a coating. In my opinion, part of the problem is the texure of the interior of the boat does not lend itself well to sanding or grinding. Epoxy is generally belived to be a stronger and more effective coating than polyester. My interior has more "spider cracks" than any other boat I have seen. If this is your situation as well, I would be interested to see if you are able to find a coating that will permanently repair the cracking. I believe the coating must have some flexibility to prevent the cracks from reappearing. Some believe the cracks are due to "flexing" of the deck under weight, and a hard epoxy coating will crack. Good luck with your restoration. I will be doing this to my boat (again) this spring. Steve
Binkster	posted 01-06-2012 02:33 PM ET (US) If you use AwlGrip you need to prime it first with AwlGrip 545 2 part epoxy primer. That will stick to anything. So in other words you can use AwlGrip over anything. What do you mean by a barrier coat.
acseatsri	posted 01-06-2012 06:15 PM ET (US) My boat was LOADED with spider racks after I replaced the plywood under the fuel tank cavity. I sanded all the non-skid texture off, then used Interlux 2-part epoxy primer THINNED out to almost water consistency for the first 2 coats (to fill in the cracks and re-bond any loose sections of gelcoat). After that, I did several more coats with the epoxy moderately thinned and sanded between coats until I was satisfied with the surface. After this, I rolled 3 coats of Oyster white Perfection paint (with a foam roller) on the smooth sections and where the non-skid would go, sanding lightly betyween coats. Finally, I taped off all the areas where the non-skid would go and put on another 2 coats of 1/2 Perfection & 1/2 flattening agent mixed with Intergrit. It's been 4 seasons now and 800 hours on the engine and still holding up well. And when I installed an auxilary fuel tank and sealed up the fishwell, the paint was a perfect match to the then 3-year old finish. If you're not a purist and just want a usable boat that looks decent and is easy to clean and keep looking decent, I would definitely go this route again.
17 bodega	posted 01-06-2012 06:25 PM ET (US) acseatsri, I am intrigued by your story. I like your thinking of thinning the epoxy to fill the cracks and repeat layers for strength. Could you provide details of the thinning, and amounts as well as product names? Did you thin with acetone or thinner? I am NOT a purist, nor can I be if I wanted to... I want a boat that dives and fishes good, that I can keep dry. Thanks for sharing your info. I am OK with AWLGRIP too and the additional cost if necessary. My promise to myself is to do it correctly next time so a repeat won't be necessary for a long time. Steve
acseatsri	posted 01-09-2012 07:46 PM ET (US) Steve--I used was Epoxy Primekote 404. The first two coats should be thinned to almost water consistency. This primer is almost always thinned. Expect a minimum of 4 coats with sanding after each coat except when thinned to water consistency. I used foam rollers for all painting- forget about brushes except cheapie chip brushes- NOTHING cleans them with this epoxy, so don't waste your time or money only to throw out the brushes after each use. Thin with 2333N solvent/reducer. Again, I used Perfection paint with no thinning necessary for final coats- expect 2-3 finish coats, light sanding between coats. Comes to a nice gloss finish, no tipping necessary if you stay with their light colors. Oyster White is a little lighter than desert tan, cream looks almost yellow next to the desert tan. I started with cream and ended up painting over it with the white. For the non-skid areas, tape off the areas you want to stay glossy and to give a clean transition line. I mixed the Perfection and flattening agent 50/50- It gave a nice semi-gloss non-reflective finsh. Add intergrit according to directions and your own judgment. The Intergrit leaves a finish of about 120 grit sandpaper- It's easy to clean, durable, and easy to touch up with a perfect match from can to can. Re Awlgrip- Interlux was readily available and worked well. I would use the Interlux products again. I think they're both similar, but Interlux has always done well for me.
ocean31	posted 01-10-2012 07:37 AM ET (US) Steve, Acseatsri hit on the mark with the interlux paints. Intelux is designed for home use. Awlgrip, Imron, Sterling they are all two part [unclear] paints, and as such they all have the durability you are looking for. Another [brand of paint] is Devo, They make an industrial two-part product. However the smallest amount I was able to find is the one-gallon kit, but fairly inexpensive, so you may want to look at it. I found Devo at a regular paint store. I have never had a problem getting any product to stick to the West System barrier coat, as long as I sanded and primed the barrier coat first. The only time I have not primed the epoxy barrier coat is when I was covering it with antifouling paint, in that case I just sanded. A couple more thoughts are and I apologize if I am telling you something you already know: Make sure any foam brushes and rollers you use are suitable for epoxy and two part poly paints. The paint vehicle (solvent) in two parts is aggressive, and will melt cheap foam As mentioned not worth cleaning foam brushes, just chuck them. If you do not have or want to rent a sprayer, do not turn up your nose at the Preval spray bottles. They are available fairly cheap at any big box hardware store. I did the entire topside of a 30 foot sailboat with three bottles. The Preval spray bottles required a little more sanding afterwards compared to a HVLP gun, but not a lot of sanding. You can try, but I never had any luck spraying two part paints with a electric sprayer. Just never could get them to work right. We have two local boat yards here producing custom Sport Fishing boat, normally around 30-foot. Both yards do not use a color gel coat. For the inner mold they normally just shoot a base colorless gelcoat before the first layer of glass. Both yards finish all their new boats with a two part poly. Good luck--jsb
Binkster	posted 01-10-2012 07:51 AM ET (US) If you count on luck when applying high tech paint, it will always be bad luck. Use the equipment recommended by the manufactures and don't take shortcuts. If you have limited experience go with gel coat. You can always sand out your mistakes. When you apply/spray AwlGrip you can't sand out orange peel or runs. How it looks is how you apply it.
jtanner	posted 01-10-2012 04:24 PM ET (US) Here is where I have boat both gelcoat and awlgrip. they are pretty knowledgeable too. They have all colors of both gelcoat and awlgrip. Alwgrip: http://www.bottompaintstore.com/ topside-boat-paint-awlgrip-marine-paint-c-13630_13683.html Gelcoat: http://www.bottompaintstore.com/ fiberglass-and-gel-coat-repair-gelcoat-c-13581_13586.html
Binkster	posted 01-10-2012 07:23 PM ET (US) I see that you are affiliated with that company. I buy from Finishmasters Auto and Industrial Paint Co. They also sell AwlGrip, but I don't know about gelcoat. They generally sell to auto painters and body shops, and have the best prices I've seen, but I haven't needed to buy any AwlGrip in about three years, so I can't comment on prices. They are a national chain and have stores in most areas, so shipping is not usually needed. They also will match colors and mix custom colors.
dino54904	posted 01-12-2012 08:18 AM ET (US) I used Awlgrip on my Outrage with excellent results. Start with losts of surface prep, then the primer, then two layers of Oyster White. After three years it has proven to be very durable. Use terrycloth covers on your fenders. And, use the Awlgrip soap and polish so it stays glossy. Dino
17 bodega	posted 01-12-2012 06:50 PM ET (US) Thanks to all that responded to my post, and no intentions of hijacking the thread... hope the info is useful to the original poster. I'm excited to do this project. Most likely it will be after the rainy season, if we get one.. Thanks again. Fantastic information! Steve
17 bodega	posted 01-30-2012 12:58 AM ET (US) UPDATE: I've used the INTERLUX primer recommended above and have so far seen great results. I have NOT quite gotten water consistency out of the reducer, but pretty close. I started with two quarts (in several applications) on the deck and am moving my way up the entire interior of the boat, sanding liberally between coats. I have only begun and will post some pictures to show the progress. I have purchased several products from Jamestown Distributors, which had the best overall prices and shipping policies. All rails and screws on the interior have been removed. To repair holes, and other nastiness, I used WEST SYSTEM epoxy with some nice fiberglass chopped fibers. Talk about strong! I'm pleased thus far. I will post some pictures very soon. Steve
jtanner	posted 01-31-2012 07:02 PM ET (US) Here is where I have boat both gelcoat and awlgrip. they are pretty knowledgeable too. They have all colors of both gelcoat and awlgrip. Alwgrip: http://www.bottompaintstore.com/ topside-boat-paint-awlgrip-marine-paint-c-13630_13683.html Gelcoat: http://www.bottompaintstore.com/ fiberglass-and-gel-coat-repair-gelcoat-c-13581_13586.html
dfmcintyre	posted 01-31-2012 07:08 PM ET (US) Uh, we got that message five posts earlier....
sdespop	posted 02-03-2012 08:01 PM ET (US) Last year I finished the exterior of my 15 Sport using Interlux 2000E primer (4 coats) and Interlux Perfection for the finish (3 coats). Easy application using the roller & tip method. Much less work than gelcoat. The major factor is the Perfection (and Awlgrip) are marketed as topside paints and should not be used below the waterline if the boat is left in the water for extended periods of time. Interlux customer support told me that the paint works well if the boat is not in the water for more than 72 hours at a time. Another consideration is the price. The primer was $100/gallon, the Perfection was $80/quart. Took me 1 gallon of primer and 2 quarts of Perfection to finish the job.
Binkster	posted 02-04-2012 07:38 AM ET (US) I am not familiar with Interlux Perfection. Is it a single stage paint, or is it like AwlGrip which is a polyurethane paint consisting of a top coat mixed with an equal amount of activator. AwlGrip primer is an epoxy mixed with an equal amount of epoxy activator. In addition each paint has its own thinner. so when you say you used a gallon of primer and two quarts of top coat, are you saying that its the total amount including activator or without activator if indeed it is a two part(stage) paint.
sdespop	posted 02-04-2012 06:08 PM ET (US) The Interlux primer & Perfection are both 2 part paints. The primer is a 3:1 mix, Perfection 2:1. I thinned the primer with lacquer thinner & did not need to thin the Perfection. You can see the results here http://www.whalercentral.com/infusions/personal_page/view_personal_page.php?user_id=17325
Binkster	posted 02-04-2012 09:34 PM ET (US) Nice looking job you did pop, I like the dark blue sides. BTW how many people does it take to roll over a 15 footer and place it back on the trailer upside down.
sdespop	posted 02-04-2012 11:34 PM ET (US) Thanks, still a lot of work to do. Gathered a crew of 6 to flip it.
17 bodega	posted 02-04-2012 11:43 PM ET (US) I also like the sides. The boat looks nice overall. Did you use some other product that turned the west system epoxy that tan color? Did you use the fiberglass chopped fibers or cloth for the repair? I'm using the "primekote" 2 part primer, and making the repairs with west system. It probably wouldn't be a bad idea to flip mine but I don't feel like pulling the motor and all rigging. I will tape off everything and get her on blocks if when I'm ready to strip the bottom paint and smooth out any existing repairs. Steve
sdespop	posted 02-05-2012 12:01 AM ET (US) The tan filler is from their 410 fairing additive. Makes a paste that's easy to spread & easy to sand. The beauty of West System is the variety of fillers for different applications. I used chop to fill the hole in the transom & cloth for keel repairs. Yet to do projects include new rubrail, bow & stern lights, Whaler decals in white, refinish the interior, add a stereo to the console.
Binkster	posted 02-05-2012 10:55 PM ET (US) Gathered a crew of 6 to flip it. HMMM, Lets see now, all of my friends are old farts like myself, but with heart conditions, bad backs etc, most of the neighbors are on disability, lazy, or are popping some kind of pills, and are mostly incoherent.
69wailer	posted 02-06-2012 03:51 PM ET (US) [The author begins his article by saying he was] just quoted $1,000 to sand [unknown mark of punctuation deleted; perhaps meant to use a comma], fill, [and refinish with gel coat resin] above water line, and barrier coat with epoxy below the water line [the hull of a NAUSET 17]. Is [$1,000 a] reasonable [cost to sand, fill, and refinish with gel coat resin above the water line and barrier coat with exposy resin below the water on a 17-foot boat]? [The] boat is spiderweb-cracked all over; [the] bottom also has lots of small circular chips [like] chicken pox in some areas. I'm only furnishing the epoxy. [Thanks]
jimh	posted 02-06-2012 08:41 PM ET (US) What is the other material cost involved. Subtract those material costs from the $1,000 to find the labor cost. Then estimate the hours using a figure of $40/hour for the labor rate. If you think the labor hours are reasonable, then the quote is probably fair.
17 bodega	posted 04-18-2012 11:47 PM ET (US) I have some updated photographs of my 16 classic hull. The products I used were both by INTERLUX. The first is the PRIMEKOTE as mentioned above. 2-4 coats with sanding in between. Some coats I thinned well, others I laid on very thick to fill problem areas. The next set of photos is the final coat (I plan to roll on 1-2 more coats) of PERFECTION. The color is MATTERHORN WHITE, which looks like a very light grey. Pictures Here: http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j116/17bodega/New%20Whaler/ BostonPaintBow.jpg I waited long periods of time between coats, and sanded generously. I hope this stuff will last. It's not perfect by any stretch of the imagination, but as long as it lasts and is durable, I will be pleased. Steve
17 bodega	posted 04-18-2012 11:49 PM ET (US) Here is the link to the entire album with the "old blue" hull to compare to: http://s78.photobucket.com/albums/j116/17bodega/New%20Whaler/
17 bodega	posted 04-23-2012 12:38 AM ET (US) http://s78.photobucket.com/albums/j116/17bodega/New%20Whaler/ I've added more photographs showing my [semi] finished boat. It's a large improvement, but will always be a "work boat", and never a cream puff. The bottom line is I slapped down some INTERLUX PRIMEKOTE, sanded between many coats, then slapped down two solid coats of PERFECTION on the deck, let her dry a couple of warm days and called it good. Matt (Placerville) welded together that awesome seat/leaning post that I butchered with my drunken upholstery job! It should comfort my hind quarters nicely though... it's marine grade vinyl that I attached with adhesive and stainless staples... I will put one more coat of grey "deck paint" with non skid properties, also from INTERLUX, this one a one part application that claims to adhere to all substates... we will see. I took her out on the water and had no immediate failures of the epoxy coatings, so we will see how my prep work and applications hold out. It won't win any beauty contests but I'm fully stoked with the results.. function over form to say the least. I'm totally digging the seat with the rod and utility holders. Happy boating and thanks to those who posted details of their restorations above! Steve