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Author Topic:   1981 Johnson 35-HP Won't Start

ofmiceandmenemsha posted 04-01-2012 07:45 PM ET (US)
While running the boat today [the 1981 Johnson 35-HP outboard engine] coughed a few times then died. Fired right back up for a few seconds, then died again. Thinking it was fuel, quickly switched tanks and went on my way.
About 15 minutes later, coming off plane, she died for good. Threw the anchor for safety. When attempting to start, everything sounds good, [but the 1981 Johnson 35-HP] just doesn't start. Crank crank crank. Solenoid clicks, starter engages, never fires.
Sat there for about 30 minutes in Clearwater pass, and reluctantly called SeaTow, as we weren't going anywhere alone.
After another 20 minutes of tow, while being towed, engine in neutral, she fired right up and idled in neutral the rest of the way home! $300 for the trip.
Any ideas? I am confident it isn't the fuel, as it was two brand new freshly filled tanks. I read somewhere that when the coils get hot, they lost their capacity to make spark and need time too cool down. Anyone else experience this?
ASIDE to Nick--if you read this, sorry we missed the Homosassa event, had some family in town.
Peter posted 04-02-2012 08:06 AM ET (US)
The likelihood that both coils go bad at the same time is low and that motor WILL run on one cylinder.
It could be a power pack.
It also could be the fuel pump. When was the last time that the fuel pump was replaced on that 31-year-old motor?
jimh posted 04-02-2012 08:32 AM ET (US)
Get out your in-line spark tester and check for spark.
contender posted 04-02-2012 10:30 AM ET (US)
Sounds like either electrical or was starving for fuel. As stated above power pack and spark and I would even change the plugs. Electric start I would check the neutral safety switch, also is the fuel line/primer bulb ok? I would even go through the carb (not a big deal and easy to do), these engines are pretty bullet proof...good luck
Tom W Clark posted 04-02-2012 10:34 AM ET (US)
Check for Spark. Check for fuel. Then remove the air silencer/shield from the carburetor and inspect the throat for obstructions.
I once owned the same motor and it would not start. I found a tiny piece of paper in the throat of the carburetor. I removed it and it ran great ever after. An insect nest would do the same thing.
ofmiceandmenemsha posted 04-02-2012 01:56 PM ET (US)
Thanks for the quick responses. Fuel lines, filter and pump were replaced last summer.
We had a coil wire come loose last year and she did run (though slowly) on one cylinder, so I could be wrong in that thinking. Starved for fuel might be the culprit. Will remove the cowl and air box this evening and check her out.
ofmiceandmenemsha posted 04-09-2012 09:48 AM ET (US)
Checked everything mentioned above and nothing was out of spec or order. We ran the boat yesterday for 3 uneventful hours, then she dies again. After an hour and forty five minutes, she fired right up.
I believe I am going to repower. Though I love the look and sound of that 81 two stroke, I need some peace of mind when boating. I don't like questioning my ability to "go over there" and not get stranded.
ofmiceandmenemsha posted 04-09-2012 10:03 AM ET (US)
Just had another thought... water in the fuel. Would this be causing similar problems?
contender posted 04-09-2012 03:31 PM ET (US)
Water is heavier than fuel so it sinks to the bottom of the tank were the fuel pick up is, depending on how much water is in the tank the engine could spuder or just quit all together.
Teak Oil posted 04-09-2012 04:03 PM ET (US)
It's easy to know whether its fuel or spark--Once the engine quits and will not refire, then simply have someone crank the engine over while you have the spark plug out and ground the electrode against the exposed part of the cylinder head.
I bet you have no spark when it quits, this sounds like a classic electrical problem. Check for a loose wire somewhere that could be grounding out the spark somewhere
newt posted 04-09-2012 04:04 PM ET (US)
It sounds like your engine dies only when it is warm, which is a good indicator of an electrical problem which would lead me to suggest swapping the power pack.
Peter posted 04-09-2012 08:15 PM ET (US)
When it dies, is it quickly like someone switched it off or pushed the stop button, or slowly like when you pull off the fuel hose and run it out of gas?
Peter posted 04-09-2012 08:42 PM ET (US)
When it dies, is it quickly like someone switched it off or pushed the stop button, or slowly like when you pull off the fuel hose and run it out of gas?
ofmiceandmenemsha posted 04-11-2012 08:07 PM ET (US)
Peter - there is usually a quick stutter, then shortly after she dies completely. The stutter usually makes me switch tanks real quick to make sure the fuel level in the tank is high enough to be picked up.
I'm going to take it to the local dealer to have the power pack changed, unless this is something I can do myself.
Very frustrating. As I love the classic combo, but am starting to get nervous about reliability.
Thanks again guys.
ofmiceandmenemsha posted 04-11-2012 08:40 PM ET (US)
So I took a look at my power pack a few minutes ago. The top bolt was fastened to the engine. The bottom bolt was as well, but the whole lower corner where the hole is came off. It has a film on there where it looked like someone has glued it back on! A picture is below.

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/ 47a2da30b3127cceff8250d052ae00000030O20EcuGbVw5bMwe3nws/cC/f%3D0/ ps%3D50/r%3D2/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

I also found this family of wires which was been wrapped in electrical tape and runs through the back of the engine. One lead goes to the solenoid, one corrodes off and goes no where and the final ties into a pig tail coming off of the power pack. No idea what this is, looks very aftermarket.

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/ 47a2da30b3127cceff8255d7930300000030O20EcuGbVw5bMwe3nws/cC/f%3D0/ ps%3D50/r%3D2/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/
http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/ 47a2da30b3127cceff82f1d7935100000030O20EcuGbVw5bMwe3nws/cC/f%3D0/ ps%3D50/r%3D2/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/
jimh posted 04-11-2012 09:25 PM ET (US)
From your narrative describing the onset of the problem, it seems that the malfunction occurs after the engine has reached operating temperature. Once the malfunction occurs, it seems that the engine must cool down before operation can resume. That behavior is classic for an electrical component breaking down with temperature.
Did you follow the advice I gave you in my initial reply? I asked you to use an in-line spark tester to verify spark. Unless you test for spark you don't really know if there is any. We cannot rule out a problem with spark until you tell us that you used a spark tester and observed spark during the period of time when the engine is not able to run. Clarify that for us. I am not sure you said you tested for spark.
ofmiceandmenemsha posted 04-11-2012 09:33 PM ET (US)
My error Jim. I did check for spark. The spark was bright blue and jumped the gap when set at 7/16 of an inch.
jimh posted 04-11-2012 11:45 PM ET (US)
Thank you for the clarification on the spark test. If you are getting good spark on all cylinders and the engine still won't start, I doubt that the problem is the Power Pack. I'd run that by the mechanic at the shop before investing in a new Power Pack part.
jimh posted 04-11-2012 11:46 PM ET (US)
Try putting the spark leads back on, then crank the engine over in darkness. Maybe there is a breakdown of the spark before it reaches the spark plugs. You might see an arc around the coils.
newt posted 04-12-2012 09:35 AM ET (US)
When you tested for spark, was it on the water when the engine would not start, or back in the yard after the engine cooled down? In other words, are you sure you had spark at the times the engine would not run?

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Author	Topic: 1981 Johnson 35-HP Won't Start
ofmiceandmenemsha	posted 04-01-2012 07:45 PM ET (US) While running the boat today [the 1981 Johnson 35-HP outboard engine] coughed a few times then died. Fired right back up for a few seconds, then died again. Thinking it was fuel, quickly switched tanks and went on my way. About 15 minutes later, coming off plane, she died for good. Threw the anchor for safety. When attempting to start, everything sounds good, [but the 1981 Johnson 35-HP] just doesn't start. Crank crank crank. Solenoid clicks, starter engages, never fires. Sat there for about 30 minutes in Clearwater pass, and reluctantly called SeaTow, as we weren't going anywhere alone. After another 20 minutes of tow, while being towed, engine in neutral, she fired right up and idled in neutral the rest of the way home! $300 for the trip. Any ideas? I am confident it isn't the fuel, as it was two brand new freshly filled tanks. I read somewhere that when the coils get hot, they lost their capacity to make spark and need time too cool down. Anyone else experience this? ASIDE to Nick--if you read this, sorry we missed the Homosassa event, had some family in town.
Peter	posted 04-02-2012 08:06 AM ET (US) The likelihood that both coils go bad at the same time is low and that motor WILL run on one cylinder. It could be a power pack. It also could be the fuel pump. When was the last time that the fuel pump was replaced on that 31-year-old motor?
jimh	posted 04-02-2012 08:32 AM ET (US) Get out your in-line spark tester and check for spark.
contender	posted 04-02-2012 10:30 AM ET (US) Sounds like either electrical or was starving for fuel. As stated above power pack and spark and I would even change the plugs. Electric start I would check the neutral safety switch, also is the fuel line/primer bulb ok? I would even go through the carb (not a big deal and easy to do), these engines are pretty bullet proof...good luck
Tom W Clark	posted 04-02-2012 10:34 AM ET (US) Check for Spark. Check for fuel. Then remove the air silencer/shield from the carburetor and inspect the throat for obstructions. I once owned the same motor and it would not start. I found a tiny piece of paper in the throat of the carburetor. I removed it and it ran great ever after. An insect nest would do the same thing.
ofmiceandmenemsha	posted 04-02-2012 01:56 PM ET (US) Thanks for the quick responses. Fuel lines, filter and pump were replaced last summer. We had a coil wire come loose last year and she did run (though slowly) on one cylinder, so I could be wrong in that thinking. Starved for fuel might be the culprit. Will remove the cowl and air box this evening and check her out.
ofmiceandmenemsha	posted 04-09-2012 09:48 AM ET (US) Checked everything mentioned above and nothing was out of spec or order. We ran the boat yesterday for 3 uneventful hours, then she dies again. After an hour and forty five minutes, she fired right up. I believe I am going to repower. Though I love the look and sound of that 81 two stroke, I need some peace of mind when boating. I don't like questioning my ability to "go over there" and not get stranded.
ofmiceandmenemsha	posted 04-09-2012 10:03 AM ET (US) Just had another thought... water in the fuel. Would this be causing similar problems?
contender	posted 04-09-2012 03:31 PM ET (US) Water is heavier than fuel so it sinks to the bottom of the tank were the fuel pick up is, depending on how much water is in the tank the engine could spuder or just quit all together.
Teak Oil	posted 04-09-2012 04:03 PM ET (US) It's easy to know whether its fuel or spark--Once the engine quits and will not refire, then simply have someone crank the engine over while you have the spark plug out and ground the electrode against the exposed part of the cylinder head. I bet you have no spark when it quits, this sounds like a classic electrical problem. Check for a loose wire somewhere that could be grounding out the spark somewhere
newt	posted 04-09-2012 04:04 PM ET (US) It sounds like your engine dies only when it is warm, which is a good indicator of an electrical problem which would lead me to suggest swapping the power pack.
Peter	posted 04-09-2012 08:15 PM ET (US) When it dies, is it quickly like someone switched it off or pushed the stop button, or slowly like when you pull off the fuel hose and run it out of gas?
Peter	posted 04-09-2012 08:42 PM ET (US) When it dies, is it quickly like someone switched it off or pushed the stop button, or slowly like when you pull off the fuel hose and run it out of gas?
ofmiceandmenemsha	posted 04-11-2012 08:07 PM ET (US) Peter - there is usually a quick stutter, then shortly after she dies completely. The stutter usually makes me switch tanks real quick to make sure the fuel level in the tank is high enough to be picked up. I'm going to take it to the local dealer to have the power pack changed, unless this is something I can do myself. Very frustrating. As I love the classic combo, but am starting to get nervous about reliability. Thanks again guys.
ofmiceandmenemsha	posted 04-11-2012 08:40 PM ET (US) So I took a look at my power pack a few minutes ago. The top bolt was fastened to the engine. The bottom bolt was as well, but the whole lower corner where the hole is came off. It has a film on there where it looked like someone has glued it back on! A picture is below. http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/ 47a2da30b3127cceff8250d052ae00000030O20EcuGbVw5bMwe3nws/cC/f%3D0/ ps%3D50/r%3D2/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/ I also found this family of wires which was been wrapped in electrical tape and runs through the back of the engine. One lead goes to the solenoid, one corrodes off and goes no where and the final ties into a pig tail coming off of the power pack. No idea what this is, looks very aftermarket. http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/ 47a2da30b3127cceff8255d7930300000030O20EcuGbVw5bMwe3nws/cC/f%3D0/ ps%3D50/r%3D2/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/ http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/ 47a2da30b3127cceff82f1d7935100000030O20EcuGbVw5bMwe3nws/cC/f%3D0/ ps%3D50/r%3D2/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/
jimh	posted 04-11-2012 09:25 PM ET (US) From your narrative describing the onset of the problem, it seems that the malfunction occurs after the engine has reached operating temperature. Once the malfunction occurs, it seems that the engine must cool down before operation can resume. That behavior is classic for an electrical component breaking down with temperature. Did you follow the advice I gave you in my initial reply? I asked you to use an in-line spark tester to verify spark. Unless you test for spark you don't really know if there is any. We cannot rule out a problem with spark until you tell us that you used a spark tester and observed spark during the period of time when the engine is not able to run. Clarify that for us. I am not sure you said you tested for spark.
ofmiceandmenemsha	posted 04-11-2012 09:33 PM ET (US) My error Jim. I did check for spark. The spark was bright blue and jumped the gap when set at 7/16 of an inch.
jimh	posted 04-11-2012 11:45 PM ET (US) Thank you for the clarification on the spark test. If you are getting good spark on all cylinders and the engine still won't start, I doubt that the problem is the Power Pack. I'd run that by the mechanic at the shop before investing in a new Power Pack part.
jimh	posted 04-11-2012 11:46 PM ET (US) Try putting the spark leads back on, then crank the engine over in darkness. Maybe there is a breakdown of the spark before it reaches the spark plugs. You might see an arc around the coils.
newt	posted 04-12-2012 09:35 AM ET (US) When you tested for spark, was it on the water when the engine would not start, or back in the yard after the engine cooled down? In other words, are you sure you had spark at the times the engine would not run?