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Author Topic:   1978 Johnson Tilt-Trim Addition

Sourpuss1 posted 05-05-2012 11:15 AM ET (US)
I own a 1978 SPORT 17 with the same vintage Johnson 70-HP outboard engine. Unfortunately, the motor does not have tilt-trim. I have been looking at OEM tilt-trim units on-line, and have consulted with my local dealer. It seems that 1978 was sort of a transitional year for the 70-HP Johnson, and in order to add an OEM OMC unit I will also have to add a remote box, which I assume will contain relays. While this is an option, I would like to avoid drilling holes in my boat to mount an unsightly box. The dash-mounted control would be OEM also, to match the key switch.
Share your experience, or offer technical information on this type of modification. If this process becomes too involved, I may opt for a CMC system, but that would be a last resort.
pcrussell50 posted 05-05-2012 02:26 PM ET (US)
You heard right about '78 being a transitional year. Good news, bad news:
How mechanically inclined are you?
One of my motors is a "Frankenstein"-- a'77 powerhead on an '80 mid-section, with an '80 power tilt and trim. Do you feel up to doing something like that?
If your remote control does not have the trim switch built in to it, you will have to come up with a scheme for adding the switch. On my "Frankenstein" motor, the trim control switch is an aftermarket, two-button affair, affixed to the steering wheel, with a coiled "telephone cord" running under the dash. But I also have a foot throttle, (gas pedal) on that boat, so no throttle arm to put the switch on. This throttle/trim rig is kind of standard in the "fast boat" world, but I don't know how it would be looked at in the Whaler world.
What are you opposed to in the CMC unit?
One of my other motors is a '75, with the old school, less desirable OMC pt'n't, that eventually crapped out, (before I bought it). The owner at the time, (a commercial saltwater fisherman here in Santa Barbara), decided that the CMC was the way to go, and that's what it had on it when I bought it in fall of '08. I do not regret it. It's a tidy package. He also told me that the cost of going the CMC route was cheaper than repairing the old OMC pt'n't. The biggest difference between the CMC and the stock setup is that with the CMC, you get a 5" setback. In the fast boating community, this is considered good--in general.
-Peter
Teak Oil posted 05-05-2012 11:06 PM ET (US)
I agree, the CMC setup will cost about the same as doing it yourself and will add setback and almost certainly be more dependable
Jeff posted 05-05-2012 11:16 PM ET (US)
I had a CMC unit on my 17 Newport when I bought the boat. I personally think they look like hell on a Classic Whaler.
I personally went the route of sourcing a functioning period correct OEM OMC external mount tilt and trim. Which I believe is the same as what you need.
http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v427/jeff_rohlfing/ 1976%20Newport%206-2011/?action=view¤t=IMG_7069.jpg
http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v427/jeff_rohlfing/ 1976%20Newport%206-2011/?action=view¤t=IMG_7087.jpg
http:/ / smg. photobucket. com/ albums/ v427/ jeff_rohlfing/ 1976%20Newp ort%206-2011/ ?action=view& current=IMG_7087. jpg#!oZZ61QQcurrentZZhttp% 3A%2F%2Fsmg. photobucket. com%2Falbums%2Fv427%2Fjeff_rohlfing%2F1976%252 0Newport%25206-2011%2F%3Faction%3Dview%26current%3DIMG_7088. jpg
http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v427/jeff_rohlfing/ 1976%20Newport%206-2011/?action=view¤t=IMG_7044.jpg
I assume you have talked to and checked with Dave and Doug at Lockemans in sourcing a tilt and trim unit? If they do not have a tilt trim unit, and you need one like in the images of above let me know. I have and extra one myself. I am just up the road from you and may be willing to part with the unit. It needs new o-rings but Doug and Lockemans said that they can replace them with ease.
As for Peter's recommendation, that is a realistic option too but, your block is only compatible with later midsections up to 1984.
Jeff posted 05-05-2012 11:22 PM ET (US)
Also, There were far more rats nests of wiring and and other parts under the console with the CMC unit than the OMC unit.
I now only have a single small solenoid mounted under the console to run my tilt trim that runs to a trim switch on the dash. With this set up I was able to keep a Classic Morse MT3 binnacle. If I wanted to go to a newer style OMC/BRP binnacle with a built in trim switch I could have and then not added the dash mount switch.
pcrussell50 posted 05-06-2012 12:17 AM ET (US)
Jeff, you have heard from me before, how drop-dead gorgeous your setup, (particularly your motor), is. In fact, right after I finish typing this, I'm going back to your pictures to drool some more.
Your factory PT'N'T looks to be period correct, and good on you for it. I have never had that setup despite the fact that one of my v4's, (the '75 135hp with the CMC rig), is the right age for it, so everything I say about how the newer '78-and newer setups, being more desirable is hearsay. But at least it IS consistent hearsay. Again and again, I hear that repairing them, (other than basic repairs), is cost-prohibitive, thereby driving people into the arms of CMC. I agree, that the CMC setup would probably not look so great on a classic 16/17. That's why I suggested the alternative of finding a '79-newer midsection. My CMC rig is on a 16 foot v-hull sport boat that both needs and look right with some setback.
I do have to say that in my case, the wiring for the CMC unit is actually pretty neat. Only a couple, (or three wires running forward to the binnacle), and uses the stock PT'N'T switch on the OMC binnacle. Admittedly, I didn't do the wiring myself. Then again, most to of the "messiness" in the wiring is tucked in under the gunwales--something that is not possible in my 17 Alert, but looks entirely possible in yours.
-Peter
Sourpuss1 posted 05-06-2012 11:15 AM ET (US)
Jeff,
I am familiar with the T/T system on your Johnrude. I had hoped the 70hp model I have was "modern" enough for T/T that was mounted between the clamps. You did answer my question about the mounting of relays under the dash.
Great info.
Peter, I am considering a CMC unit, but only after I exhaust my OEM possibilities. I have been looking for a donor motor in case I wanted to use its "trunk" and add my power head!
Please see the attached photos for more insight.
https://picasaweb.google.com/116270698488929759014/ 1978BostonWhaler?authuser=0&authkey=Gv1sRgCJSu3Yjz-df81AE& feat=directlink
I plan to run this boat as-is for a while, before converting it to a Montauk. I have purchase an OEM console (late 80's from an Outrage) and an RPS. Both are saltwater rough, and will need restoration. Just part of the fun...
skred posted 05-06-2012 04:00 PM ET (US)
I'm possibly going to rig a remote trim switch for my setup. My brother has a Merc on which the trim button broke away from the throttle/shift handle, leaving the contacts bare. All he did was fashion a small u-shaped piece of wire with the spacing just right to simultaneously contact the middle contact and either the left or right contact. Jumping the right with center gives him "down", and the left with center give him "up". Based on this I figured that a double-pole, double throw rocker switch (momentary on/off/momentary on) - which costs about 7 bucks - should work tapping into the 3 wires that are connected to the on-engine switch. Haven't tried it yet... If it works, one simply mounts the switch on the console.. Comments?
pcrussell50 posted 05-06-2012 04:29 PM ET (US)
I have done lots of rewiring small boats with toggle switches. You can (and should) also get the rubber boots that screw down over the switch if they are outside a dry cabin. Then you can hose down your dash, if you boat in salt water.
I have mostly done this to pre-'96 OMC key/ignition switches, when the key core gets hogged out and sloppy. I make a small panel of three switches:
momentary on for choke
momentary on for cranking the starter
(I put these two together so I can choke and crank at the same time with the same finger)
simple on-off for ignition
If you are worried about theft, you can put the ignition switch in a hidden place under the dash, and not label the crank and choke switches, (you will know what they mean anyway). It will be entirely NOT obvious what it all means, especially if you keep the now-dead key cylinder in place, looking like it belongs there. That should slow down any would-be thieves enough to move on to the next one.
I have not used a toggle for PT'N'T as described, simply because there are high quality, aftermarket switches made specifically for this purpose.
-Peter
Sourpuss1 posted 05-08-2012 02:11 PM ET (US)
I am curious, will this vintage T/T fit a 1978 70hp?
http://appleton.craigslist.org/boa/2959321755.html
This is the underlying question behind this post, although the timing of this craigslist ad is a coincidence.
Jeff posted 05-08-2012 03:56 PM ET (US)
Do you have an image of the motor mounting bracket on your boat?
Jeff posted 05-08-2012 04:02 PM ET (US)
Sorry. I went back to the picasa site and found an image. It may work but I would check with Lockemans first to see if they have something in their motor bone yard that is working and would fit. It is better to buy something local from a long-standing trusted source incase it does not work or fit correctly.
Sourpuss1 posted 05-11-2012 08:35 PM ET (US)
Jeff, another wrinkle.
http://brainerd.craigslist.org/boa/3009171598.html
Jeff posted 05-12-2012 12:16 AM ET (US)
That could be an option however I do not think it would work on your motor, as the bottom mounting bracket for the mid section looks to be the wrong style on this unit. It has the early and mid 70's style bottom mounting bracket. If you look at your motor you have the trapezoidal style bottom midsection mounts.

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Author	Topic: 1978 Johnson Tilt-Trim Addition
Sourpuss1	posted 05-05-2012 11:15 AM ET (US) I own a 1978 SPORT 17 with the same vintage Johnson 70-HP outboard engine. Unfortunately, the motor does not have tilt-trim. I have been looking at OEM tilt-trim units on-line, and have consulted with my local dealer. It seems that 1978 was sort of a transitional year for the 70-HP Johnson, and in order to add an OEM OMC unit I will also have to add a remote box, which I assume will contain relays. While this is an option, I would like to avoid drilling holes in my boat to mount an unsightly box. The dash-mounted control would be OEM also, to match the key switch. Share your experience, or offer technical information on this type of modification. If this process becomes too involved, I may opt for a CMC system, but that would be a last resort.
pcrussell50	posted 05-05-2012 02:26 PM ET (US) You heard right about '78 being a transitional year. Good news, bad news: How mechanically inclined are you? One of my motors is a "Frankenstein"-- a'77 powerhead on an '80 mid-section, with an '80 power tilt and trim. Do you feel up to doing something like that? If your remote control does not have the trim switch built in to it, you will have to come up with a scheme for adding the switch. On my "Frankenstein" motor, the trim control switch is an aftermarket, two-button affair, affixed to the steering wheel, with a coiled "telephone cord" running under the dash. But I also have a foot throttle, (gas pedal) on that boat, so no throttle arm to put the switch on. This throttle/trim rig is kind of standard in the "fast boat" world, but I don't know how it would be looked at in the Whaler world. What are you opposed to in the CMC unit? One of my other motors is a '75, with the old school, less desirable OMC pt'n't, that eventually crapped out, (before I bought it). The owner at the time, (a commercial saltwater fisherman here in Santa Barbara), decided that the CMC was the way to go, and that's what it had on it when I bought it in fall of '08. I do not regret it. It's a tidy package. He also told me that the cost of going the CMC route was cheaper than repairing the old OMC pt'n't. The biggest difference between the CMC and the stock setup is that with the CMC, you get a 5" setback. In the fast boating community, this is considered good--in general. -Peter
Teak Oil	posted 05-05-2012 11:06 PM ET (US) I agree, the CMC setup will cost about the same as doing it yourself and will add setback and almost certainly be more dependable
Jeff	posted 05-05-2012 11:16 PM ET (US) I had a CMC unit on my 17 Newport when I bought the boat. I personally think they look like hell on a Classic Whaler. I personally went the route of sourcing a functioning period correct OEM OMC external mount tilt and trim. Which I believe is the same as what you need. http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v427/jeff_rohlfing/ 1976%20Newport%206-2011/?action=view¤t=IMG_7069.jpg http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v427/jeff_rohlfing/ 1976%20Newport%206-2011/?action=view¤t=IMG_7087.jpg http:/ / smg. photobucket. com/ albums/ v427/ jeff_rohlfing/ 1976%20Newp ort%206-2011/ ?action=view& current=IMG_7087. jpg#!oZZ61QQcurrentZZhttp% 3A%2F%2Fsmg. photobucket. com%2Falbums%2Fv427%2Fjeff_rohlfing%2F1976%252 0Newport%25206-2011%2F%3Faction%3Dview%26current%3DIMG_7088. jpg http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v427/jeff_rohlfing/ 1976%20Newport%206-2011/?action=view¤t=IMG_7044.jpg I assume you have talked to and checked with Dave and Doug at Lockemans in sourcing a tilt and trim unit? If they do not have a tilt trim unit, and you need one like in the images of above let me know. I have and extra one myself. I am just up the road from you and may be willing to part with the unit. It needs new o-rings but Doug and Lockemans said that they can replace them with ease. As for Peter's recommendation, that is a realistic option too but, your block is only compatible with later midsections up to 1984.
Jeff	posted 05-05-2012 11:22 PM ET (US) Also, There were far more rats nests of wiring and and other parts under the console with the CMC unit than the OMC unit. I now only have a single small solenoid mounted under the console to run my tilt trim that runs to a trim switch on the dash. With this set up I was able to keep a Classic Morse MT3 binnacle. If I wanted to go to a newer style OMC/BRP binnacle with a built in trim switch I could have and then not added the dash mount switch.
pcrussell50	posted 05-06-2012 12:17 AM ET (US) Jeff, you have heard from me before, how drop-dead gorgeous your setup, (particularly your motor), is. In fact, right after I finish typing this, I'm going back to your pictures to drool some more. Your factory PT'N'T looks to be period correct, and good on you for it. I have never had that setup despite the fact that one of my v4's, (the '75 135hp with the CMC rig), is the right age for it, so everything I say about how the newer '78-and newer setups, being more desirable is hearsay. But at least it IS consistent hearsay. Again and again, I hear that repairing them, (other than basic repairs), is cost-prohibitive, thereby driving people into the arms of CMC. I agree, that the CMC setup would probably not look so great on a classic 16/17. That's why I suggested the alternative of finding a '79-newer midsection. My CMC rig is on a 16 foot v-hull sport boat that both needs and look right with some setback. I do have to say that in my case, the wiring for the CMC unit is actually pretty neat. Only a couple, (or three wires running forward to the binnacle), and uses the stock PT'N'T switch on the OMC binnacle. Admittedly, I didn't do the wiring myself. Then again, most to of the "messiness" in the wiring is tucked in under the gunwales--something that is not possible in my 17 Alert, but looks entirely possible in yours. -Peter
Sourpuss1	posted 05-06-2012 11:15 AM ET (US) Jeff, I am familiar with the T/T system on your Johnrude. I had hoped the 70hp model I have was "modern" enough for T/T that was mounted between the clamps. You did answer my question about the mounting of relays under the dash. Great info. Peter, I am considering a CMC unit, but only after I exhaust my OEM possibilities. I have been looking for a donor motor in case I wanted to use its "trunk" and add my power head! Please see the attached photos for more insight. https://picasaweb.google.com/116270698488929759014/ 1978BostonWhaler?authuser=0&authkey=Gv1sRgCJSu3Yjz-df81AE& feat=directlink I plan to run this boat as-is for a while, before converting it to a Montauk. I have purchase an OEM console (late 80's from an Outrage) and an RPS. Both are saltwater rough, and will need restoration. Just part of the fun...
skred	posted 05-06-2012 04:00 PM ET (US) I'm possibly going to rig a remote trim switch for my setup. My brother has a Merc on which the trim button broke away from the throttle/shift handle, leaving the contacts bare. All he did was fashion a small u-shaped piece of wire with the spacing just right to simultaneously contact the middle contact and either the left or right contact. Jumping the right with center gives him "down", and the left with center give him "up". Based on this I figured that a double-pole, double throw rocker switch (momentary on/off/momentary on) - which costs about 7 bucks - should work tapping into the 3 wires that are connected to the on-engine switch. Haven't tried it yet... If it works, one simply mounts the switch on the console.. Comments?
pcrussell50	posted 05-06-2012 04:29 PM ET (US) I have done lots of rewiring small boats with toggle switches. You can (and should) also get the rubber boots that screw down over the switch if they are outside a dry cabin. Then you can hose down your dash, if you boat in salt water. I have mostly done this to pre-'96 OMC key/ignition switches, when the key core gets hogged out and sloppy. I make a small panel of three switches: momentary on for choke momentary on for cranking the starter (I put these two together so I can choke and crank at the same time with the same finger) simple on-off for ignition If you are worried about theft, you can put the ignition switch in a hidden place under the dash, and not label the crank and choke switches, (you will know what they mean anyway). It will be entirely NOT obvious what it all means, especially if you keep the now-dead key cylinder in place, looking like it belongs there. That should slow down any would-be thieves enough to move on to the next one. I have not used a toggle for PT'N'T as described, simply because there are high quality, aftermarket switches made specifically for this purpose. -Peter
Sourpuss1	posted 05-08-2012 02:11 PM ET (US) I am curious, will this vintage T/T fit a 1978 70hp? http://appleton.craigslist.org/boa/2959321755.html This is the underlying question behind this post, although the timing of this craigslist ad is a coincidence.
Jeff	posted 05-08-2012 03:56 PM ET (US) Do you have an image of the motor mounting bracket on your boat?
Jeff	posted 05-08-2012 04:02 PM ET (US) Sorry. I went back to the picasa site and found an image. It may work but I would check with Lockemans first to see if they have something in their motor bone yard that is working and would fit. It is better to buy something local from a long-standing trusted source incase it does not work or fit correctly.
Sourpuss1	posted 05-11-2012 08:35 PM ET (US) Jeff, another wrinkle. http://brainerd.craigslist.org/boa/3009171598.html
Jeff	posted 05-12-2012 12:16 AM ET (US) That could be an option however I do not think it would work on your motor, as the bottom mounting bracket for the mid section looks to be the wrong style on this unit. It has the early and mid 70's style bottom mounting bracket. If you look at your motor you have the trapezoidal style bottom midsection mounts.