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Author Topic:   Lug nut corrosion protection

andygere posted 04-24-2013 12:18 AM ET (US)
I just ran into an ad for a simple product that claims to protect trailer lug nuts and studs from corrosion. Has anyone used a product called Lug Budz?
https://lugbudz.com/Home.html
Having recently done some service to my trailer, I found that the lug nuts were pretty rusty. I use anti-seize compound on the threads, but he exposed ends of the threads were rusty, and needed cleaning up. The nuts themselves had a lot of loose scale type rust on them, which also needed to be cleaned up to get the lug wrench on them. I'm a big believer in stainless steel hardware, but not on lug nuts. I'm too worried about galling when torquing them down.
L H G posted 04-24-2013 01:19 AM ET (US)
Andy - For 25 years now I have used McGard mag wheel decorative wheel nuts on all of my trailers. They do not rust (like some of the other brands do), cover the stud completely, and look great on a galvanized spoke wheel. With these, your problems will be over. I put of dab of grease in them before tightening down. Have never once had a galling issue, even with no grease. They cost about $16/wheel.
Automotive stores like Pep Boys have them. McGard is a recognized brand, and they also make locking nuts and prop lock nuts. 14" wheels use the 1/2" size, for a 13/16 lug wrench.
Tom W Clark posted 04-24-2013 11:04 AM ET (US)
Yeah, don't use stainless steel lug nuts.
McGard says their ...lug nuts are machined from high quality steel, through-hardened and then triple-nickel chrome plated for durability and long-lasting beauty. They say nothing about stainless steel.
I suspect the trouble with Lug Budz may be like Bearing Buddy Bras, which do not necessarily keep water out, may hold it in, in fact, and may sometimes fall off.
jimp posted 04-24-2013 11:07 AM ET (US)
Andy -
I operate a bit differently than you since I trailer weekly and fresh water washdown the trailer after every use. Every fall I remove the wheels and stow them in a shed to keep them from freezing in puddles of ice. Every spring I remount them. But everytime I do it, I cover the threads on the bolts with with Break-Free or some other type of oil. This has kept the threads in good shape for years and I never have trouble getting the lug bolts out. I don't have lug nuts, but lug bolts.
But the heads of the bolts take a beating over the years and two summers ago I replaced them all after 12 years of use.
JimP
russellbailey posted 04-24-2013 11:17 AM ET (US)
I've had good luck following Larry's approach with the McGard lugnuts and recommend them also. Durable and no more rust on the studs. I use them on both of my trailers.
andygere posted 04-24-2013 11:27 AM ET (US)

quote:
I suspect the trouble with Lug Budz may be like Bearing Buddy Bras, which do not necessarily keep water out, may hold it in
I was wondering the same thing. I'll give the McGard triple chrome lug nuts a try. I live close enough to the ocean that salt spray is an issue in the winter. I think I'm going to pick up a set of tire covers like the ones the RV guys use. It can't hurt.
jflots posted 04-24-2013 12:29 PM ET (US)
What is the issue with stainless lug nuts?
Tom W Clark posted 04-24-2013 12:40 PM ET (US)
Galling.
L H G posted 04-24-2013 12:45 PM ET (US)
Andy - Here is the exact nut I use, which fits most trailers with 3700# axles and 14" wheels. These will permanently solve your problem, and are always easy to remove, as long as some guy with at the tire shop didn't crank them down too hard. I am in and out of salt all winter and have never had an issue. The McGard nuts I bought for my 25 Outrage trailer 24 years ago are still in use and look perfect!
http://www.amazon.com/McGard-64000-Chrome-Cone-Style/dp/B000COS0F6
andygere posted 04-24-2013 01:20 PM ET (US)
Larry, thanks for the link.
Jefecinco posted 04-24-2013 06:25 PM ET (US)
I've had good luck with BRP Triple Guard. Ie. Evinrude blue grease.
About twice a year I back each lug nut off, apply a bit of Triple Guard and retorque the nut. Continue to the next nut and etc.
No jack necessary. Frequency can be adjusted to your boating habits. I like knowing I can remove a wheel if necessary without twisting off lug studs. Once was enough.
Butch
contender posted 04-24-2013 08:13 PM ET (US)
Best stuff I have found is LPS #3, you need to have/should have galvanize rims and lug nuts, I also use the triple guard grease on the threads as Butch has stated...
Chuck Tribolet posted 04-24-2013 09:17 PM ET (US)
I use the Champion Trailer stainless lug nuts and BRP Triple
Guard. No galling problems, but I don't use pneumatic tools
on stainless ever. I will use a cordless drill to slowly
run them up or down, loosen with a breaker bar, tighten with
a torque wrench.

Chuck
weekendwarrior posted 04-25-2013 10:17 AM ET (US)
I have had fantastic luck with Maxima Chain Wax. It is a paraffin based motorcycle chain lube. It sprays on wet and sets up to a dry waxy finish. I coat the lugs, but them on then coat them from the outside. The keeps everything rust free, and since it dries to a waxy finish, it doesn't attract dirt.
weekendwarrior posted 04-25-2013 10:21 AM ET (US)
I take that back.. I do put grease on the threads before putting the lugs on, THEN coat with chain wax. Had to think about that for a.minute... :)
andygere posted 04-25-2013 11:54 AM ET (US)
Chuck, what do you torque them to? I've read 70 lbs if lubed, and 100 lb. if dry, but have yet to see any manufacturer recommendations. I have been hand tightening mine in a star pattern with a cross style wrench for years, just doing it by "feel". Something a bit more scientific seems like a good idea.
Chuck Tribolet posted 04-25-2013 06:05 PM ET (US)
My trailer manufacturer says 100 foot-pounds, so that's what I do.
Chuck
kwik_wurk posted 04-25-2013 07:22 PM ET (US)
Interesting case in point, on torque specs: I bought a used trailer ($500) last year and the lug nuts were so frozen I had to go to a tire place that had a large (4') breaker bar with torque limit (basically a very large torque wrench). It took two guys, one to hold it square another to crank. Best $20 I had to spend for not having a torque wrench that would go high enough. -- I was praying that a lug didn't break, and they assured me they would not based on the limit they set; unless I had already done damage. (I did not ask what they set the wrench too.)
(I didn't want to get new spindles (they are rather rusty, but run cool and are tight).)
jimh posted 04-26-2013 10:06 AM ET (US)
I don't use any special lug nuts, in fact, I don't use lug nuts at all. On my trailer the hub has threaded holes, and machine screws (or bolts) hold the wheel onto the hub. I don't know how this design works in saltwater, but it works just fine in freshwater. As far as I know, all the machine screws (or bolts) are original with the trailer, so they're 21-years-old and look like new. They are galvanized steel.
Binkster posted 04-26-2013 10:27 AM ET (US)
jimh--Back in the day--maybe they still do, I don't drive Chryslers anymore--Chrysler products cars used the same type of threaded bolts instead of studs to hold their wheels on. It was always a pain to mount the wheels, and the bolts were at times hard to remove. I even twisted one off one time, and I never drove the car in salt water.
rich
jimp posted 04-26-2013 10:50 AM ET (US)
JimH--I mentioned above: I have the bolts on my trailer that I use all summer long in saltwater. Fresh water washdown after every trip and oiled twice a year. Replaced the first set due to rust and galling. Replacements are readily available and fairly inexpensive.
JimP
jimh posted 04-26-2013 11:35 AM ET (US)
ASIDE to Rich--Your mention of Chrysler using bolts instead of lug nuts on their hubs and wheels is interesting. I used to hang out with some engineers that worked for Chrysler, and they--naturally--thought their engineering was better than Ford or GM. Chrysler did seem to have the ability to adapt to new technology faster. But the Chrysler manufacturing quality was never very good, and other than one Chrysler back in the 1970's I inherited, I have never owned one, either
jflots posted 04-26-2013 02:15 PM ET (US)
The EZ loader trailer that was under our old 13' had bolts insead of nuts. They held up great but it was a pain to mount the wheel. Luckily they were small.
Whalrman posted 04-26-2013 05:08 PM ET (US)
I've used nickle never-seeze for years on variuos trailers being used in the saltwater and works quite well. Just alittle dab on the threads,run the nuts up by hand and then torque to spec's by EZ-Loader,current trailer.
pcrussell50 posted 04-26-2013 05:54 PM ET (US)
Lug bolts vs. lug nuts: Lug bolts make tire changes way more of a PITA. BUT, if they were engineered properly, they create a superior stress pattern in the material of the hub, allowing less material/lighter unsprung weight while maintaining equal or better margin of safety. This is why BMW uses lug bolts to this day, even through all the crying and complaining by the folks who drive them on the race track and swap track tires for street tires frequently because of it, (ask me how I know). I'm not sure if trailer hub designers go to such trouble, or are even much concerned with saving a few ounces of unsprung weight the way obsessive track junkies like BMW engineers are.
I'm surprised only one guy mentioned Never Seez. It's very heat resistant, and stays on with persistence. BUT it might react negatively with salt water--that, I do no know.
Also, if you are obsessive and torque your lug nuts according to a spec, be aware that more often than not, that spec is given for dry (unlubricated) threads. If you use a lubricant, especially a high film-strength lube like a molybdenum engine assembly lube, and still use the torque values given for dry threads, you may become dangerously close to overstressing your studs or bolts.
-Peter
contender posted 04-26-2013 08:14 PM ET (US)
Jim: having the bolts to the wheel rim would seaz up in the salt water, some trailers down in S Fla were built like that many moons ago, but the companies down here got away from them...
Bink: Back in the day did not Chryslers have both left and right hand lug nut threads? Talk about a PIA..
Peter: I heard that the best is to have studs with nuts, This is how I use to build my race motors...
tmann45 posted 04-26-2013 10:58 PM ET (US)
pcrussell50, I don't know about MB but VW, Audi and Porsche use lug bolts also. If your thread is 14mm x 1.5, the above brands have a 6" long rod that you thread into the top hole, slide your wheel onto it and then install the other bolts. Makes installing wheel much easier. They might also have it in a 12mm x ??.
Jefecinco posted 04-27-2013 10:03 AM ET (US)
Bolts are assemblies of a screw and nut often accompanied by a washer. Hex head screws are sometimes used to secure a wheel to a hub. I've never seen a bolt used to secure a wheel to a hub but I guess it would be possible if difficult.
Butch
Tom W Clark posted 04-27-2013 11:26 AM ET (US)

quote:
Bolts are assemblies of a screw and nut often accompanied by a washer.
That might be one type of bolt, but the word "bolt" has many, many meanings.
A lug bolt is a specialized type of cap screw used to secure a wheel to the hub. I've seen plenty.
The principal disadvantage of lug bolts is, as Rich notes, that it makes it hard to place the wheel on the hub because there are no studs to support the wheel while you're inserting the lug bolts.
andygere posted 04-27-2013 11:50 AM ET (US)
Lug Bolts:
http://www.wholesalemarine.com/p/T-D-81170/?utm_source=feed& utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=google&gclid=CJTtyr6Z67YCFcU5QgodpioAaw
Jefecinco posted 04-27-2013 07:34 PM ET (US)
Wrong usage permeates our society. There is nothing wrong with calling a screw a bolt if that is your preference. Over time "common usage", right or wrong, rules.
Butch

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Author	Topic: Lug nut corrosion protection
andygere	posted 04-24-2013 12:18 AM ET (US) I just ran into an ad for a simple product that claims to protect trailer lug nuts and studs from corrosion. Has anyone used a product called Lug Budz? https://lugbudz.com/Home.html Having recently done some service to my trailer, I found that the lug nuts were pretty rusty. I use anti-seize compound on the threads, but he exposed ends of the threads were rusty, and needed cleaning up. The nuts themselves had a lot of loose scale type rust on them, which also needed to be cleaned up to get the lug wrench on them. I'm a big believer in stainless steel hardware, but not on lug nuts. I'm too worried about galling when torquing them down.
L H G	posted 04-24-2013 01:19 AM ET (US) Andy - For 25 years now I have used McGard mag wheel decorative wheel nuts on all of my trailers. They do not rust (like some of the other brands do), cover the stud completely, and look great on a galvanized spoke wheel. With these, your problems will be over. I put of dab of grease in them before tightening down. Have never once had a galling issue, even with no grease. They cost about $16/wheel. Automotive stores like Pep Boys have them. McGard is a recognized brand, and they also make locking nuts and prop lock nuts. 14" wheels use the 1/2" size, for a 13/16 lug wrench.
Tom W Clark	posted 04-24-2013 11:04 AM ET (US) Yeah, don't use stainless steel lug nuts. McGard says their ...lug nuts are machined from high quality steel, through-hardened and then triple-nickel chrome plated for durability and long-lasting beauty. They say nothing about stainless steel. I suspect the trouble with Lug Budz may be like Bearing Buddy Bras, which do not necessarily keep water out, may hold it in, in fact, and may sometimes fall off.
jimp	posted 04-24-2013 11:07 AM ET (US) Andy - I operate a bit differently than you since I trailer weekly and fresh water washdown the trailer after every use. Every fall I remove the wheels and stow them in a shed to keep them from freezing in puddles of ice. Every spring I remount them. But everytime I do it, I cover the threads on the bolts with with Break-Free or some other type of oil. This has kept the threads in good shape for years and I never have trouble getting the lug bolts out. I don't have lug nuts, but lug bolts. But the heads of the bolts take a beating over the years and two summers ago I replaced them all after 12 years of use. JimP
russellbailey	posted 04-24-2013 11:17 AM ET (US) I've had good luck following Larry's approach with the McGard lugnuts and recommend them also. Durable and no more rust on the studs. I use them on both of my trailers.
andygere	posted 04-24-2013 11:27 AM ET (US) quote: I suspect the trouble with Lug Budz may be like Bearing Buddy Bras, which do not necessarily keep water out, may hold it in I was wondering the same thing. I'll give the McGard triple chrome lug nuts a try. I live close enough to the ocean that salt spray is an issue in the winter. I think I'm going to pick up a set of tire covers like the ones the RV guys use. It can't hurt.
jflots	posted 04-24-2013 12:29 PM ET (US) What is the issue with stainless lug nuts?
Tom W Clark	posted 04-24-2013 12:40 PM ET (US) Galling.
L H G	posted 04-24-2013 12:45 PM ET (US) Andy - Here is the exact nut I use, which fits most trailers with 3700# axles and 14" wheels. These will permanently solve your problem, and are always easy to remove, as long as some guy with at the tire shop didn't crank them down too hard. I am in and out of salt all winter and have never had an issue. The McGard nuts I bought for my 25 Outrage trailer 24 years ago are still in use and look perfect! http://www.amazon.com/McGard-64000-Chrome-Cone-Style/dp/B000COS0F6
andygere	posted 04-24-2013 01:20 PM ET (US) Larry, thanks for the link.
Jefecinco	posted 04-24-2013 06:25 PM ET (US) I've had good luck with BRP Triple Guard. Ie. Evinrude blue grease. About twice a year I back each lug nut off, apply a bit of Triple Guard and retorque the nut. Continue to the next nut and etc. No jack necessary. Frequency can be adjusted to your boating habits. I like knowing I can remove a wheel if necessary without twisting off lug studs. Once was enough. Butch
contender	posted 04-24-2013 08:13 PM ET (US) Best stuff I have found is LPS #3, you need to have/should have galvanize rims and lug nuts, I also use the triple guard grease on the threads as Butch has stated...
Chuck Tribolet	posted 04-24-2013 09:17 PM ET (US) I use the Champion Trailer stainless lug nuts and BRP Triple Guard. No galling problems, but I don't use pneumatic tools on stainless ever. I will use a cordless drill to slowly run them up or down, loosen with a breaker bar, tighten with a torque wrench. Chuck
weekendwarrior	posted 04-25-2013 10:17 AM ET (US) I have had fantastic luck with Maxima Chain Wax. It is a paraffin based motorcycle chain lube. It sprays on wet and sets up to a dry waxy finish. I coat the lugs, but them on then coat them from the outside. The keeps everything rust free, and since it dries to a waxy finish, it doesn't attract dirt.
weekendwarrior	posted 04-25-2013 10:21 AM ET (US) I take that back.. I do put grease on the threads before putting the lugs on, THEN coat with chain wax. Had to think about that for a.minute... :)
andygere	posted 04-25-2013 11:54 AM ET (US) Chuck, what do you torque them to? I've read 70 lbs if lubed, and 100 lb. if dry, but have yet to see any manufacturer recommendations. I have been hand tightening mine in a star pattern with a cross style wrench for years, just doing it by "feel". Something a bit more scientific seems like a good idea.
Chuck Tribolet	posted 04-25-2013 06:05 PM ET (US) My trailer manufacturer says 100 foot-pounds, so that's what I do. Chuck
kwik_wurk	posted 04-25-2013 07:22 PM ET (US) Interesting case in point, on torque specs: I bought a used trailer ($500) last year and the lug nuts were so frozen I had to go to a tire place that had a large (4') breaker bar with torque limit (basically a very large torque wrench). It took two guys, one to hold it square another to crank. Best $20 I had to spend for not having a torque wrench that would go high enough. -- I was praying that a lug didn't break, and they assured me they would not based on the limit they set; unless I had already done damage. (I did not ask what they set the wrench too.) (I didn't want to get new spindles (they are rather rusty, but run cool and are tight).)
jimh	posted 04-26-2013 10:06 AM ET (US) I don't use any special lug nuts, in fact, I don't use lug nuts at all. On my trailer the hub has threaded holes, and machine screws (or bolts) hold the wheel onto the hub. I don't know how this design works in saltwater, but it works just fine in freshwater. As far as I know, all the machine screws (or bolts) are original with the trailer, so they're 21-years-old and look like new. They are galvanized steel.
Binkster	posted 04-26-2013 10:27 AM ET (US) jimh--Back in the day--maybe they still do, I don't drive Chryslers anymore--Chrysler products cars used the same type of threaded bolts instead of studs to hold their wheels on. It was always a pain to mount the wheels, and the bolts were at times hard to remove. I even twisted one off one time, and I never drove the car in salt water. rich
jimp	posted 04-26-2013 10:50 AM ET (US) JimH--I mentioned above: I have the bolts on my trailer that I use all summer long in saltwater. Fresh water washdown after every trip and oiled twice a year. Replaced the first set due to rust and galling. Replacements are readily available and fairly inexpensive. JimP
jimh	posted 04-26-2013 11:35 AM ET (US) ASIDE to Rich--Your mention of Chrysler using bolts instead of lug nuts on their hubs and wheels is interesting. I used to hang out with some engineers that worked for Chrysler, and they--naturally--thought their engineering was better than Ford or GM. Chrysler did seem to have the ability to adapt to new technology faster. But the Chrysler manufacturing quality was never very good, and other than one Chrysler back in the 1970's I inherited, I have never owned one, either
jflots	posted 04-26-2013 02:15 PM ET (US) The EZ loader trailer that was under our old 13' had bolts insead of nuts. They held up great but it was a pain to mount the wheel. Luckily they were small.
Whalrman	posted 04-26-2013 05:08 PM ET (US) I've used nickle never-seeze for years on variuos trailers being used in the saltwater and works quite well. Just alittle dab on the threads,run the nuts up by hand and then torque to spec's by EZ-Loader,current trailer.
pcrussell50	posted 04-26-2013 05:54 PM ET (US) Lug bolts vs. lug nuts: Lug bolts make tire changes way more of a PITA. BUT, if they were engineered properly, they create a superior stress pattern in the material of the hub, allowing less material/lighter unsprung weight while maintaining equal or better margin of safety. This is why BMW uses lug bolts to this day, even through all the crying and complaining by the folks who drive them on the race track and swap track tires for street tires frequently because of it, (ask me how I know). I'm not sure if trailer hub designers go to such trouble, or are even much concerned with saving a few ounces of unsprung weight the way obsessive track junkies like BMW engineers are. I'm surprised only one guy mentioned Never Seez. It's very heat resistant, and stays on with persistence. BUT it might react negatively with salt water--that, I do no know. Also, if you are obsessive and torque your lug nuts according to a spec, be aware that more often than not, that spec is given for dry (unlubricated) threads. If you use a lubricant, especially a high film-strength lube like a molybdenum engine assembly lube, and still use the torque values given for dry threads, you may become dangerously close to overstressing your studs or bolts. -Peter
contender	posted 04-26-2013 08:14 PM ET (US) Jim: having the bolts to the wheel rim would seaz up in the salt water, some trailers down in S Fla were built like that many moons ago, but the companies down here got away from them... Bink: Back in the day did not Chryslers have both left and right hand lug nut threads? Talk about a PIA.. Peter: I heard that the best is to have studs with nuts, This is how I use to build my race motors...
tmann45	posted 04-26-2013 10:58 PM ET (US) pcrussell50, I don't know about MB but VW, Audi and Porsche use lug bolts also. If your thread is 14mm x 1.5, the above brands have a 6" long rod that you thread into the top hole, slide your wheel onto it and then install the other bolts. Makes installing wheel much easier. They might also have it in a 12mm x ??.
Jefecinco	posted 04-27-2013 10:03 AM ET (US) Bolts are assemblies of a screw and nut often accompanied by a washer. Hex head screws are sometimes used to secure a wheel to a hub. I've never seen a bolt used to secure a wheel to a hub but I guess it would be possible if difficult. Butch
Tom W Clark	posted 04-27-2013 11:26 AM ET (US) quote: Bolts are assemblies of a screw and nut often accompanied by a washer. That might be one type of bolt, but the word "bolt" has many, many meanings. A lug bolt is a specialized type of cap screw used to secure a wheel to the hub. I've seen plenty. The principal disadvantage of lug bolts is, as Rich notes, that it makes it hard to place the wheel on the hub because there are no studs to support the wheel while you're inserting the lug bolts.
andygere	posted 04-27-2013 11:50 AM ET (US) Lug Bolts: http://www.wholesalemarine.com/p/T-D-81170/?utm_source=feed& utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=google&gclid=CJTtyr6Z67YCFcU5QgodpioAaw
Jefecinco	posted 04-27-2013 07:34 PM ET (US) Wrong usage permeates our society. There is nothing wrong with calling a screw a bolt if that is your preference. Over time "common usage", right or wrong, rules. Butch