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Author Topic:   Water in a Whaler

contender posted 04-25-2013 02:14 PM ET (US)
Other than weighing a bare hull, or the obvious water dripping from the hull, is there another way to tell if an older whaler has water in the hull? Would an infrared camera help? or some type of x ray?...Thanks
saumon posted 04-25-2013 02:48 PM ET (US)
Infrared camera could tell if there's someone in the hull in Watertown, but I dunno for water...
Jerry Townsend posted 04-25-2013 03:23 PM ET (US)
Infared would not work - as it shows a relative change in temperature.
X-ray, which shows a change in density would work - but be a tad expensive.
Some have drilled holes to sample for water - and there will be a "ton" of discussions about it. --- Jerry/Idaho
andygere posted 04-25-2013 06:16 PM ET (US)
Since excess weight is the primary concern about saturated foam, I think weighing the boat is the best idea.
contender posted 04-25-2013 07:07 PM ET (US)
Jerry thanks and I was just wondering if there is someway somehow to tell about the water in the hull, I know it has been discuss here many times but just wondering if anyone has come up with another solution...Take care
Jefecinco posted 04-25-2013 07:47 PM ET (US)
Perhaps tapping with a surveyor hammer could detect a LOT of water in a confined area of the hull. My guess is that if a different sound is detected in an area it could be worth a test drill hole on the inside if ready access is possible.
Butch
Tom W Clark posted 04-25-2013 10:36 PM ET (US)
Weigh it.
dfmcintyre posted 04-26-2013 07:05 AM ET (US)
Tom -
How much do you think a typical production hull would vary from published weight?
Further, did/does the factory weigh each hull after removal from the mold or at the and of the production build for a specific hull, i.e. with all equipment on it?
Regards - Don
bdb posted 04-26-2013 09:38 AM ET (US)
Moisture meter
Tom W Clark posted 04-26-2013 09:39 AM ET (US)
I am sure there is variation between hulls and I do not believe every boat produced was weighed and that measurement recorded, but if you weigh a Whaler hull and it's 50 percent more than the published specified weight, you can conclude there's significant water in the hull.
The smaller the hull, the easier it is to weight.
I bet that today's Whaler hulls are more consistent than early Whaler hulls because the production process is so well controlled now.
The earliest Whalers were given a range of weights rather than a specific weight. My recollection was that range was about 10 percent of total hull weight. I doubt there is even 5 percent variation today.
Tom W Clark posted 04-26-2013 09:42 AM ET (US)
Yeah, some marine surveyor use moisture meters, but moisture meters do not work well, or at all, on Whaler hulls because of the foam composition along with some plywood and other reinforcing materials. I've been present at boat surveys where the surveyor had a moisture meter but admitted Whaler hulls were tough to figure.
jimh posted 04-26-2013 11:40 AM ET (US)
I don't have any solid basis for saying this, but I have often thought that those Boston Whaler hulls that are cut in half and put on display are usually production hulls whose weight was out of tolerance. Or production hulls in which a large void was found, or in some other way were out of tolerance.
I do recall that in the present-day production process every hull is weighed after it has been infused with foam. I don't know what tolerance is used for over or under the intended weight.
AZdave posted 04-28-2013 04:15 PM ET (US)
I think one could measure water in the hull by its thermal mass. If you left a boat out on a cold night, then allowed the sun to shine on the side of the boat, the saturated foam should read much colder with one of the new remote sensing thermometers. I don't know if the method would yield a clear demarcation. The foam may gradually get drier as you move higher in the hull.
I did weigh my Outrage before selling it. I was having long telephone conversations with people about the possibility of water in the hull. I found that there was still some difficulty drawing a conclusion about water in the hull. Possible sources of error were: guessing at the amount of fuel in the belly tank, weights of the outboard, kicker, batteries, custom stainless steel pulpit, and especially the trailer. I weighed on a truck scale at a landscaping business, but the scale was probably most accurate near its capacity. Finally, when I did a search on this site, I found some old threads with hints and whispers that the hulls may have been heavier than stated from the factory. My calculated hull weight was a couple of hundred pounds over the specs published in the reference section, but that could easily be explained by a subset of the above factors moving the measured weight in the same direction. That is, there is no reason to think that measurement errors always tend to cancel out.

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Author	Topic: Water in a Whaler
contender	posted 04-25-2013 02:14 PM ET (US) Other than weighing a bare hull, or the obvious water dripping from the hull, is there another way to tell if an older whaler has water in the hull? Would an infrared camera help? or some type of x ray?...Thanks
saumon	posted 04-25-2013 02:48 PM ET (US) Infrared camera could tell if there's someone in the hull in Watertown, but I dunno for water...
Jerry Townsend	posted 04-25-2013 03:23 PM ET (US) Infared would not work - as it shows a relative change in temperature. X-ray, which shows a change in density would work - but be a tad expensive. Some have drilled holes to sample for water - and there will be a "ton" of discussions about it. --- Jerry/Idaho
andygere	posted 04-25-2013 06:16 PM ET (US) Since excess weight is the primary concern about saturated foam, I think weighing the boat is the best idea.
contender	posted 04-25-2013 07:07 PM ET (US) Jerry thanks and I was just wondering if there is someway somehow to tell about the water in the hull, I know it has been discuss here many times but just wondering if anyone has come up with another solution...Take care
Jefecinco	posted 04-25-2013 07:47 PM ET (US) Perhaps tapping with a surveyor hammer could detect a LOT of water in a confined area of the hull. My guess is that if a different sound is detected in an area it could be worth a test drill hole on the inside if ready access is possible. Butch
Tom W Clark	posted 04-25-2013 10:36 PM ET (US) Weigh it.
dfmcintyre	posted 04-26-2013 07:05 AM ET (US) Tom - How much do you think a typical production hull would vary from published weight? Further, did/does the factory weigh each hull after removal from the mold or at the and of the production build for a specific hull, i.e. with all equipment on it? Regards - Don
bdb	posted 04-26-2013 09:38 AM ET (US) Moisture meter
Tom W Clark	posted 04-26-2013 09:39 AM ET (US) I am sure there is variation between hulls and I do not believe every boat produced was weighed and that measurement recorded, but if you weigh a Whaler hull and it's 50 percent more than the published specified weight, you can conclude there's significant water in the hull. The smaller the hull, the easier it is to weight. I bet that today's Whaler hulls are more consistent than early Whaler hulls because the production process is so well controlled now. The earliest Whalers were given a range of weights rather than a specific weight. My recollection was that range was about 10 percent of total hull weight. I doubt there is even 5 percent variation today.
Tom W Clark	posted 04-26-2013 09:42 AM ET (US) Yeah, some marine surveyor use moisture meters, but moisture meters do not work well, or at all, on Whaler hulls because of the foam composition along with some plywood and other reinforcing materials. I've been present at boat surveys where the surveyor had a moisture meter but admitted Whaler hulls were tough to figure.
jimh	posted 04-26-2013 11:40 AM ET (US) I don't have any solid basis for saying this, but I have often thought that those Boston Whaler hulls that are cut in half and put on display are usually production hulls whose weight was out of tolerance. Or production hulls in which a large void was found, or in some other way were out of tolerance. I do recall that in the present-day production process every hull is weighed after it has been infused with foam. I don't know what tolerance is used for over or under the intended weight.
AZdave	posted 04-28-2013 04:15 PM ET (US) I think one could measure water in the hull by its thermal mass. If you left a boat out on a cold night, then allowed the sun to shine on the side of the boat, the saturated foam should read much colder with one of the new remote sensing thermometers. I don't know if the method would yield a clear demarcation. The foam may gradually get drier as you move higher in the hull. I did weigh my Outrage before selling it. I was having long telephone conversations with people about the possibility of water in the hull. I found that there was still some difficulty drawing a conclusion about water in the hull. Possible sources of error were: guessing at the amount of fuel in the belly tank, weights of the outboard, kicker, batteries, custom stainless steel pulpit, and especially the trailer. I weighed on a truck scale at a landscaping business, but the scale was probably most accurate near its capacity. Finally, when I did a search on this site, I found some old threads with hints and whispers that the hulls may have been heavier than stated from the factory. My calculated hull weight was a couple of hundred pounds over the specs published in the reference section, but that could easily be explained by a subset of the above factors moving the measured weight in the same direction. That is, there is no reason to think that measurement errors always tend to cancel out.