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Author Topic:   MONTAUK: Self-bailing

Lee In VT posted 06-07-2013 01:33 PM ET (US)
My just purchased 1985 Montauk 17 has no sump pump. I have it tied-up at my dock and it's been raining here in Vermont for days. The manual says to leave the drain plug out when docked or moored, that a limited amount of water will accumulate, above which the boat self drains due to inherent hull bouyancy. Is that what you folks do when docked in wet weather, take the drain plug out? Can you say about how high the water will fill the cockpit with the plug out with an Evinrude 70 on the transom?
[The owner's manual] also said to drain off any water by driving the boat with the plug out, then replacing the drain plug. Pretty cool if true. I'm happy to not need a sump pump but can anyone confirm the above Whaler recommendations?
jimh posted 06-07-2013 04:08 PM ET (US)
On most classic Boston Whaler boats, if the weight of the engine on the transom is similar to the weight anticipated by the designers, the boat will be self-bailing when the cockpit sump drain is open to the sea.
I cannot predict exactly how much water will rise into the cockpit sump on your particular boat with your particular engine. Why don't you pull the drain on the cockpit sump, step off the boat, observe what happens, and reply with a narrative.
One of the best ways for the collective experience of Boston Whaler owners to be gathered is for individual owners to contribute their experiences.
contender posted 06-07-2013 04:21 PM ET (US)
Go out in your boat one day, tie it to the dock and pull the plug and watch...
JBCornwell posted 06-07-2013 05:15 PM ET (US)
I did exactly as the Manual instructs with my 1981 Montauk (JohnnyRude 70 equipped),Lee.
Battery was in the console and fuel tank (24 gallon Tempo) was under the RPS.
At mooring about 2" of rain accumulated with the plug out. It was dry in less than 100yards.
I didn't like the lower parts of furniture soaking, so I installed a Mills mooring/towing cover. That was a far better solution to mooring/storing in the rain.
Red sky at night. . .
JB
Lee In VT posted 06-08-2013 09:10 AM ET (US)
Thanks. I forgot I had a small West Marine sump pump that actually fits into the bilge well. Now I'm willing to pull the drain plug on the floating Whaler (contrary to all my boating instincts) and I'll let you know how far this Montauk fills. Just didn't want to wind up bailing manually if it didn't self drain (oh ye of little faith, I hear you say).
swist posted 06-08-2013 10:04 AM ET (US)
It is counterintuitive, and for good reason. I don't want saltwater sitting on the cockpit sole of my meticulously cleaned Montauk. Not sure I'd want fresh water either given the state of many of our waterways.
Plug it up. That's what bilge pumps are for.
(Probably minority opinion)
RevengeFamily posted 06-10-2013 06:31 AM ET (US)
Lee,
When expecting rain pull the plug and walk away!!!
After a small amount of lake water enters, your Whaler will be neutrally buoyant... Any additional rain water will drain to the lake... It's a beautiful thing!!!
When the weather turns dry, take her for a ride with the hull plug in your hand. After she drains, slow to idle speed and quickly install your hull plug.
Not needing a bilge pump is really a remarkable thing...
Without the pump, you don't get a boat FULL of water because...
a; Your pump failed...
b; Have a dead battery because the pump has been working overtime for two days straight trying to keep the rain water to a minimum. (and now you can't start your engine because the battery is stone dead as well)
Or c; The worst, the two tiny screw holes you need to secure the pump in the rigging tunnel will eventually, no matter how diligent you are with the 3M 5200 sealant, those holes will eventually weep water into the foam core of your Whaler... and no body wants to have water in their Whaler...
Norm
swist posted 06-10-2013 01:00 PM ET (US)
Norm makes good points although I might point out that little Montauk-sized pumps draw very little juice. I've left mine alone for 2 rainy weeks and not had a problem.
As I said before it depends on what kind of water you are moored in, and how you feel about having it in your boat (and as mentioned earlier, it is important to do a buoyancy test to see what the max water depth is and where it is, all of which depend on loading and other factors (like the boat bouncing around in weather).
pcrussell50 posted 06-10-2013 04:08 PM ET (US)
Swist, don't you have a big heavy Merc 90 FourStroke like mine? I've never done this "test" on mine? Have you? I'd be curious to see how our boats float with the plug pulled... or if they even stay upright, with a motor 100lbs heavier than they were designed for.
-Peter
Qtrmeg posted 06-10-2013 05:52 PM ET (US)
Someone posted a picture of a 17'r with the plug pulled not too long ago. I can probably find it if you want.
Can you leave the boat unplugged? Yes. There will be a good sized puddle of water aft, but it "shouldn't" hurt anything.
A heavy engine will just let more water in, still focused aft and unlikely to hurt anything.
Should you? I guess it depends on the boat.
You can do anything you want with a new boat but mine is 38 years old. I feel that I need to take better care of it than leave it submerged.
swist posted 06-10-2013 07:22 PM ET (US)
I did the test by accident, didn't know the plug wasn't in. It flooded to between the RPS and console. In the rear of the boat I have storage boxes which floated around until one tipped over, at which point the cover seal wasn't good enough to keep water out. Rusted tools. Also have a plastic crate full of cleaners, fuel additives and other such things back there. They all floated and fall over. Not sure if anything leaked out, or saltwater leaked in**. And there was a scum line on the cockpit sides and cockpit sole.
The heavy 90hp fourstroke I'm sure was a contributing factor. While I've never seen a Montauk with a light engine flooded, I get the impression from many posts in this forum over the years that the amount of water that comes in is probably less. While that might keep some things from floating around, it still wouldn't help the scum issue. I have a 26 gal Moeller tank under the RPS. With its weight it is hard enough to keep it clean underneath without saltwater incursion. I get the impression that the boats with lighter engines don't flood that far forward.
** Slightly humorous aside - some of the bottles that fell over when floated lost their labels due to sitting in water. I had a bunch of stuff that I didn't know what it was. Threw it out to avoid putting, for example, vinyl cleaner in the fuel tank thinking it was some fuel additive.
L H G posted 06-10-2013 07:29 PM ET (US)
I think Swist has it right. Of course the boat won't sink, but who wants all the water continuously sitting in the sump and up into rigging tunnel, with your cabling, harness and wiring continuously wet. Then there is the dirt, mold, algae, scum line, etc the will build up in the tunnel, sump and on the boat floor.
Install a bilge pump of your choice. For me, I like the rule 500 GPH "chip" auto, with an on-off overriding dash switch. Discharge is bundled with the engine/steering cables.
http://smg.photobucket.com/user/lgoltz/media/Montauk%2017/Scan_Pic0008. jpg.html?sort=6&o=46#/user/lgoltz/media/Montauk%2017/Scan_Pic0008.jpg. html?sort=6&o=46&_suid=1370906983168020575559543464555
jharrell posted 06-10-2013 07:57 PM ET (US)
I did this twice, once when I first got my Montauk to see how how much water it took on and a second time not too long ago when docked in rough weather to attempt to get some water out, that one didn't end so well.
The first time was in calm water in a lake down the street to test. I didn't have a kicker or jack-plate then but did have the battery in the stern. A good 2-3" of water filled the back not going over the battery, with a very small amount at my feet while at the helm.
The second time I docked my boat at an cabin I time share near the gulf in rough windy conditions. It's more like beaching than docking but it has been improved some to prevent the boat from sitting on the rocks. Here is a photo taken another time of exactly the spot and how it was set:
https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/ vWlpAE15Z8sBDOcG4xg2XKSaoQmHDDfZXcvZ_FScPmE?feat=directlink

The stern of the boat was facing north as it is in that photo and heavy wind was blowing from the north all day, consequently there was a lot of chop coming in to the beach from the rear of the boat. I pulled up quickly that way to unload and ended up forgetting about the boat for about 30 minutes. When I went back the rear was filling up with water splashing in over the transom, it was about 3-4" deep and speeding up since the stern was getting lower. I the bright idea to pull the plug thinking it would drain back down to 2-3" and stay. Instead more water started coming in until the transom notch became level with the water at which point it equalized. My power heads where above water but the boat was extremely unstable, if I where to try and stand in the back corner with my kicker it would have rolled over. Lucky the boat was only in a couple feet of water so me and my buddy man handled it around turning the bow into the wind and I plugged it and proceed to bail it out with a bucket.
After this this incident I purchased a bilge pump, as even a small one would have avoided the situation all together.
I attribute this to a combination of a heavy stern (kicker and jackplate) along with high surf coming into the rear of the boat. It was amazing how quickly the boat filled under the right conditions, if this had been in deep water I am not sure I could have recovered, I might have been able to power out of it if I could get the engine started, then again it might have simply rolled over.
pcrussell50 posted 06-10-2013 08:02 PM ET (US)
Whoa! Typical Larry perfection! Has that boat ever even been wet?
Seriously though Larry, I don't see any screw holes in the aft rigging tunnel cover area. I've been considering doing without that cover myself and filling the holes for the cover screws permanently. Right now, they're super sealed with Life Caulk.
Mine is trailered only, so I don't worry about flooding, but thanks to previous owner Brian/Fishnff, there are TWO HUGE non-automatic bilge pumps back there to help clear out any water that came over the transom when he's out in the cold north Pacific by himself.
-Peter
pcrussell50 posted 06-10-2013 08:48 PM ET (US)
Doh! I just looked at the previous picture and I see that you are using the cover, and that it looks screwed in. BUT in the closeup of the rigging, I'm darned if I can see the screw holes.
-Peter
wannabe posted 06-10-2013 09:31 PM ET (US)
I have five drains in my Outrage 18 and I keep them all plugged. It is a trailered boat and I don't like my splashwell filling with water when putting the boat in the water.

Drew
jcdawg83 posted 06-11-2013 03:12 PM ET (US)
I have a '77 Montauk with a '99 Evinrude 90 4 cyl engine on the back. The only thing in the back of the boat is the oil tank (about 2 gals) in the back right corner.
I guess the motor is heavier than what was intended, but when I leave the plug out I get about 8 to 10 inches of water in the back of the boat. The boat definitely will not sink, but it is unstablewith that much water in it and I could probably turn it over if I were to walk to one of the back corners of the boat. The waterline of the boat, at rest, is about halfway up the two outer transom drain holes for the rear motor well. I have seen other Montauks where the drain holes are slightly above the waterline.
I keep my boat on the trailer most of the time, so the plug is not an issue. I generally keep the plug in if it is docked overnight, but I am always near enough to the boat to go out and pull the plug in the event of a sudden, heavy rain. If I am leaving the boat in the water for more than one night and may not be nearby all the time; I leave the plug out.

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Author	Topic: MONTAUK: Self-bailing
Lee In VT	posted 06-07-2013 01:33 PM ET (US) My just purchased 1985 Montauk 17 has no sump pump. I have it tied-up at my dock and it's been raining here in Vermont for days. The manual says to leave the drain plug out when docked or moored, that a limited amount of water will accumulate, above which the boat self drains due to inherent hull bouyancy. Is that what you folks do when docked in wet weather, take the drain plug out? Can you say about how high the water will fill the cockpit with the plug out with an Evinrude 70 on the transom? [The owner's manual] also said to drain off any water by driving the boat with the plug out, then replacing the drain plug. Pretty cool if true. I'm happy to not need a sump pump but can anyone confirm the above Whaler recommendations?
jimh	posted 06-07-2013 04:08 PM ET (US) On most classic Boston Whaler boats, if the weight of the engine on the transom is similar to the weight anticipated by the designers, the boat will be self-bailing when the cockpit sump drain is open to the sea. I cannot predict exactly how much water will rise into the cockpit sump on your particular boat with your particular engine. Why don't you pull the drain on the cockpit sump, step off the boat, observe what happens, and reply with a narrative. One of the best ways for the collective experience of Boston Whaler owners to be gathered is for individual owners to contribute their experiences.
contender	posted 06-07-2013 04:21 PM ET (US) Go out in your boat one day, tie it to the dock and pull the plug and watch...
JBCornwell	posted 06-07-2013 05:15 PM ET (US) I did exactly as the Manual instructs with my 1981 Montauk (JohnnyRude 70 equipped),Lee. Battery was in the console and fuel tank (24 gallon Tempo) was under the RPS. At mooring about 2" of rain accumulated with the plug out. It was dry in less than 100yards. I didn't like the lower parts of furniture soaking, so I installed a Mills mooring/towing cover. That was a far better solution to mooring/storing in the rain. Red sky at night. . . JB
Lee In VT	posted 06-08-2013 09:10 AM ET (US) Thanks. I forgot I had a small West Marine sump pump that actually fits into the bilge well. Now I'm willing to pull the drain plug on the floating Whaler (contrary to all my boating instincts) and I'll let you know how far this Montauk fills. Just didn't want to wind up bailing manually if it didn't self drain (oh ye of little faith, I hear you say).
swist	posted 06-08-2013 10:04 AM ET (US) It is counterintuitive, and for good reason. I don't want saltwater sitting on the cockpit sole of my meticulously cleaned Montauk. Not sure I'd want fresh water either given the state of many of our waterways. Plug it up. That's what bilge pumps are for. (Probably minority opinion)
RevengeFamily	posted 06-10-2013 06:31 AM ET (US) Lee, When expecting rain pull the plug and walk away!!! After a small amount of lake water enters, your Whaler will be neutrally buoyant... Any additional rain water will drain to the lake... It's a beautiful thing!!! When the weather turns dry, take her for a ride with the hull plug in your hand. After she drains, slow to idle speed and quickly install your hull plug. Not needing a bilge pump is really a remarkable thing... Without the pump, you don't get a boat FULL of water because... a; Your pump failed... b; Have a dead battery because the pump has been working overtime for two days straight trying to keep the rain water to a minimum. (and now you can't start your engine because the battery is stone dead as well) Or c; The worst, the two tiny screw holes you need to secure the pump in the rigging tunnel will eventually, no matter how diligent you are with the 3M 5200 sealant, those holes will eventually weep water into the foam core of your Whaler... and no body wants to have water in their Whaler... Norm
swist	posted 06-10-2013 01:00 PM ET (US) Norm makes good points although I might point out that little Montauk-sized pumps draw very little juice. I've left mine alone for 2 rainy weeks and not had a problem. As I said before it depends on what kind of water you are moored in, and how you feel about having it in your boat (and as mentioned earlier, it is important to do a buoyancy test to see what the max water depth is and where it is, all of which depend on loading and other factors (like the boat bouncing around in weather).
pcrussell50	posted 06-10-2013 04:08 PM ET (US) Swist, don't you have a big heavy Merc 90 FourStroke like mine? I've never done this "test" on mine? Have you? I'd be curious to see how our boats float with the plug pulled... or if they even stay upright, with a motor 100lbs heavier than they were designed for. -Peter
Qtrmeg	posted 06-10-2013 05:52 PM ET (US) Someone posted a picture of a 17'r with the plug pulled not too long ago. I can probably find it if you want. Can you leave the boat unplugged? Yes. There will be a good sized puddle of water aft, but it "shouldn't" hurt anything. A heavy engine will just let more water in, still focused aft and unlikely to hurt anything. Should you? I guess it depends on the boat. You can do anything you want with a new boat but mine is 38 years old. I feel that I need to take better care of it than leave it submerged.
swist	posted 06-10-2013 07:22 PM ET (US) I did the test by accident, didn't know the plug wasn't in. It flooded to between the RPS and console. In the rear of the boat I have storage boxes which floated around until one tipped over, at which point the cover seal wasn't good enough to keep water out. Rusted tools. Also have a plastic crate full of cleaners, fuel additives and other such things back there. They all floated and fall over. Not sure if anything leaked out, or saltwater leaked in. And there was a scum line on the cockpit sides and cockpit sole. The heavy 90hp fourstroke I'm sure was a contributing factor. While I've never seen a Montauk with a light engine flooded, I get the impression from many posts in this forum over the years that the amount of water that comes in is probably less. While that might keep some things from floating around, it still wouldn't help the scum issue. I have a 26 gal Moeller tank under the RPS. With its weight it is hard enough to keep it clean underneath without saltwater incursion. I get the impression that the boats with lighter engines don't flood that far forward. Slightly humorous aside - some of the bottles that fell over when floated lost their labels due to sitting in water. I had a bunch of stuff that I didn't know what it was. Threw it out to avoid putting, for example, vinyl cleaner in the fuel tank thinking it was some fuel additive.
L H G	posted 06-10-2013 07:29 PM ET (US) I think Swist has it right. Of course the boat won't sink, but who wants all the water continuously sitting in the sump and up into rigging tunnel, with your cabling, harness and wiring continuously wet. Then there is the dirt, mold, algae, scum line, etc the will build up in the tunnel, sump and on the boat floor. Install a bilge pump of your choice. For me, I like the rule 500 GPH "chip" auto, with an on-off overriding dash switch. Discharge is bundled with the engine/steering cables. http://smg.photobucket.com/user/lgoltz/media/Montauk%2017/Scan_Pic0008. jpg.html?sort=6&o=46#/user/lgoltz/media/Montauk%2017/Scan_Pic0008.jpg. html?sort=6&o=46&_suid=1370906983168020575559543464555
jharrell	posted 06-10-2013 07:57 PM ET (US) I did this twice, once when I first got my Montauk to see how how much water it took on and a second time not too long ago when docked in rough weather to attempt to get some water out, that one didn't end so well. The first time was in calm water in a lake down the street to test. I didn't have a kicker or jack-plate then but did have the battery in the stern. A good 2-3" of water filled the back not going over the battery, with a very small amount at my feet while at the helm. The second time I docked my boat at an cabin I time share near the gulf in rough windy conditions. It's more like beaching than docking but it has been improved some to prevent the boat from sitting on the rocks. Here is a photo taken another time of exactly the spot and how it was set: https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/ vWlpAE15Z8sBDOcG4xg2XKSaoQmHDDfZXcvZ_FScPmE?feat=directlink The stern of the boat was facing north as it is in that photo and heavy wind was blowing from the north all day, consequently there was a lot of chop coming in to the beach from the rear of the boat. I pulled up quickly that way to unload and ended up forgetting about the boat for about 30 minutes. When I went back the rear was filling up with water splashing in over the transom, it was about 3-4" deep and speeding up since the stern was getting lower. I the bright idea to pull the plug thinking it would drain back down to 2-3" and stay. Instead more water started coming in until the transom notch became level with the water at which point it equalized. My power heads where above water but the boat was extremely unstable, if I where to try and stand in the back corner with my kicker it would have rolled over. Lucky the boat was only in a couple feet of water so me and my buddy man handled it around turning the bow into the wind and I plugged it and proceed to bail it out with a bucket. After this this incident I purchased a bilge pump, as even a small one would have avoided the situation all together. I attribute this to a combination of a heavy stern (kicker and jackplate) along with high surf coming into the rear of the boat. It was amazing how quickly the boat filled under the right conditions, if this had been in deep water I am not sure I could have recovered, I might have been able to power out of it if I could get the engine started, then again it might have simply rolled over.
pcrussell50	posted 06-10-2013 08:02 PM ET (US) Whoa! Typical Larry perfection! Has that boat ever even been wet? Seriously though Larry, I don't see any screw holes in the aft rigging tunnel cover area. I've been considering doing without that cover myself and filling the holes for the cover screws permanently. Right now, they're super sealed with Life Caulk. Mine is trailered only, so I don't worry about flooding, but thanks to previous owner Brian/Fishnff, there are TWO HUGE non-automatic bilge pumps back there to help clear out any water that came over the transom when he's out in the cold north Pacific by himself. -Peter
pcrussell50	posted 06-10-2013 08:48 PM ET (US) Doh! I just looked at the previous picture and I see that you are using the cover, and that it looks screwed in. BUT in the closeup of the rigging, I'm darned if I can see the screw holes. -Peter
wannabe	posted 06-10-2013 09:31 PM ET (US) I have five drains in my Outrage 18 and I keep them all plugged. It is a trailered boat and I don't like my splashwell filling with water when putting the boat in the water. Drew
jcdawg83	posted 06-11-2013 03:12 PM ET (US) I have a '77 Montauk with a '99 Evinrude 90 4 cyl engine on the back. The only thing in the back of the boat is the oil tank (about 2 gals) in the back right corner. I guess the motor is heavier than what was intended, but when I leave the plug out I get about 8 to 10 inches of water in the back of the boat. The boat definitely will not sink, but it is unstablewith that much water in it and I could probably turn it over if I were to walk to one of the back corners of the boat. The waterline of the boat, at rest, is about halfway up the two outer transom drain holes for the rear motor well. I have seen other Montauks where the drain holes are slightly above the waterline. I keep my boat on the trailer most of the time, so the plug is not an issue. I generally keep the plug in if it is docked overnight, but I am always near enough to the boat to go out and pull the plug in the event of a sudden, heavy rain. If I am leaving the boat in the water for more than one night and may not be nearby all the time; I leave the plug out.