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Author Topic:   Hydraulic Jack Plates

cj85 posted 07-19-2013 08:15 PM ET (US)
I need some advice. I have a 1985 Outrage 18 purchased with no power, as a project. I have purchased new Yamaha 70-HP yamaha four-stroke-cycle outboard engines. I got to thinking about the transom with 500-lbs of engine on it. I knew when I bought the boat it had some water intrusion on the engine mounting holes. I decided to replace the transom. I removed the old one and I'm glad I did. http://imageshack.us/a/img443/8665/4go5.jpg
Probably strong enough but I fish in the ocean exclusively and the boat will take a beating plus the extra weight. So I got to thinking that maybe I should raise the transom five-inches to help keep water out. Next, I figure I will have to mount the engines on hydraulic setback jack plates. If I did this set-up, then I could mount the engines at standard height but then use the lift of the jack plate)to clear the top of the new transom when tilting up. Upon looking at this site I have seen a whaler or two with the full transom and running a set back bracket. It appears that these single engine boats can almost tilt the engine all the way up. Should I just stick to manual jack plates? I need the opinions of some who have done the unusual to whalers. So I would like to hear what everyone has to say. The motors weigh 257-lbs. I had been thinking about using Bob's Machine Shop 10-inch set back jack plates that weigh 61-lbs or CMC Atlas 10-inch setback at 63-lbs. I will be moving the batteries forward, as well as up sizing the fuel tank at 70-75 gallons to help offset engine weight. Keep in mind that the jack plates would add a benefit since I launch in a local bay that at low tides can be very shallow and strand even small boats. I also feel it should help conserve fuel since I can dial into the sweet spot when running. All opinions welcome. Thanks in advance
cj

Jamesgt727 posted 07-19-2013 09:54 PM ET (US)
I currently have two boats with hydraulic plates:
A 15 Whaler with a 90HP Merc 2S, 4" TH Atlas, low water pickups, sport lower unit with a surface piercing propeller, LOVE IT, can't get the motor high enough.
A 1750 Wahoo! With a 90 Merc 4S, 6" Bobs Action Jac, standard lower unit, stainless Vengence Prop, HATE IT! Can't get the outboard low enough, put a stabilizer on it to settle its propensity to porpoise. If the plate ever goes bad or needs to be fixed its GONE!
Russ 13 posted 07-20-2013 01:36 AM ET (US)
I have two boats both with hydraulic jack plates.
22'Whaler runs fine w/ jack plate, it is used when the water
is skinny.. GREAT addition to the boat.
I have another one on a 16' Action craft flats boat.
BIG improvement, again when the water is skinny, and helps
to eliminate any handling problems.
..
* Having had a manual jack plate, I would ONLY go hydraulic,
the manual ones are a BIG PAIN to adjust!
...
WHY have small HP twins on a 18' boat???
A 150HP or 200HP will:
BE LESS WEIGHT
USE LESS FUEL
RUN FASTER
1/2 the maintenance.
ETC...
...
With todays modern outboards, the "extra reliability" of
twins is BALONEY.......
..
GO with a nice single, I would suggest a Yamaha or Evenrude,
Hydraulic jack plate & SELL the TWINS!!
...
If you need a full transom, install a quality bracket,
engineered for your hull.
Armstrong comes to mind as a solid brand.
conch posted 07-20-2013 10:22 AM ET (US)
Remember when running the motors will probably be too low to clear the new transom if suddenly impacted with enough force to tilt them up,likely damaging the motor(s) and transom.
I have a manual CMC jack plate on my 15 Sport works well, and twin hydraulic CMC jack plates on my 27 and love it.
I totally agree with Russ 13 only get hydraulic jack plates
and strongly consider a 200hp single engine.Maybe the Yamaha I4
The savings for rigging,props,controls,and jack plate would probably make up for any loss on the 70 Yamahas if you have them already. Maybe the dealer will take them back.
Chuck
Mike Kub posted 07-20-2013 03:54 PM ET (US)
"sizing up the fuel tank to help offset engine weight"Man that's crazy! Put a single engine on.In addition to the reasons mentioned,twins on one of the finest looking boats of all time look funky. The force on the transom will be more than the weight due to the setback(I will try to locate my physics book to give specific amt.) I have that boat & take it 40 mi.into the Gulf & up into the marsh as well. I could use one of those F70"s on my 16'7" Whaler.Peace
cj85 posted 07-20-2013 05:04 PM ET (US)
The boat is getting twins. I feel like we are getting off topic. So maybe we can stick to the discussion at hand? About jack plates with twins on a 18 outrage? Thanks guys and thanks for those that shared their jack plate experiences.
Cj
jimh posted 07-21-2013 11:39 AM ET (US)
When I had set back brackets with manual height adjustment, I only made one adjustment.
dfmcintyre posted 07-21-2013 09:02 PM ET (US)
Ditto from Jim's experience. It took me a few tries to finally dial in the right amount of height. Have not adjusted it in a number of years.
If you expect to travel in a lot of shallow flats type area, the hydraulic plates may be important to you, otherwise it's additional weight, complexity.
Regards - Don
PS - I did give this some thought before ordering the manual one.
cj85 posted 07-21-2013 09:25 PM ET (US)
Either of you that have jack plates know how many inches up you moved your engines up? Trying to gather info to make this work on the first go around. Thanks
Cj
Russ 13 posted 07-22-2013 01:03 AM ET (US)
If you have to add jack plates & move a built in fuel tank
to make "twins" work.....Due to excessive weight.
I would suggest you rethink your idea.
When that boat was manufactured, it was powered by a single.
It was designed for the weight of a single outboard.
..
Trade the new twin 70's in on a 150HP.
Set up the 18' with a nice 150HP single & enjoy.
And IF done right you will be able to sell it later, If
you ever want to.
...
Custom out of the ordinary owner built boats, are usually
very hard to sell, regardless of the brand.
If you MUST have twins, I would put them on a boat
manufactured to run twins, say a small cat hull.
prj posted 07-22-2013 01:40 PM ET (US)

quote:
When that boat was manufactured, it was powered by a single.
It was designed for the weight of a single outboard.
Correction. When this boat was designed, it was specifically designed for twins. From the transom cutout width, to the fuel manifold with dual outlets. Off topic misinformation isn't helping the original poster.
Today's engines weigh more than those manufactured during the boat's design era, and it appears that cj85 is taking that into consideration.
cj85 posted 07-22-2013 02:34 PM ET (US)
Thanks prj. Some people need to do their homework (like I have) before posting. The twins weigh 514 lbs combined were as a single 150 Yamaha weighs 487 lbs. so we are talking about 27 lbs. lots of 18 have a single and a kicker which puts close to 600 lbs on the transom. The upsizing ( not moving) of the tank is to help offset the weight of moving the engines back on jack plates, not to make twins work on this boat. Plus i make long runs to isolated places with little or no help if there is trouble hence the decision to buy twins. There is a boat I believe was buckda's (sorry if that's incorrect) that had twin 90 etecs. so 320 lbsx2= 640 lbs plus two jack plates at roughly 25 lbsx2= 50 lbs for a grand total of 690 lbs on the transom. Seems he reported no problems. I choose not to do twin 90hp engines because of weight and the waters i fish we are lucky to do 25 knots. My question was more in regards to the addition of 5 inches to the transom and using hydraulic jack plates. I could just buy shaft extensions and mount the engines to the transom sticking to the K.I.S.S method but performance and interior room will increase with the use of jack plates. So as I asked before maybe we could just stick to the questions that were asked? I'm not here asking for opinions on my engine choice. Thanks
Cj
cj85 posted 07-22-2013 03:57 PM ET (US)
Correction 150 Yamaha weighs 480 lbs so 34 lb difference not 27 lbs.
Plotman posted 07-22-2013 06:46 PM ET (US)
Twins also massively decrease the likelihood that you will ever get stuck out on the water due to a mechanical problem versus a large single.
If the chance of having an engine malfunction is 1 day in 100, with a single, you run a 1% chance of getting stranded. With twins, you have a 0.01% chance (1 in 10,000).
I guess it depends on whether you want to wait for sea tow - or even have it.
Freddy posted 07-22-2013 07:21 PM ET (US)
CJ, maybe some of these older threads might help you.
http://continuouswave.com/ubb/Forum4/HTML/006806.html
http://www.continuouswave.com/whaler/cetacea/cetaceaPage81.html
http://continuouswave.com/whaler/reference/engineBrackets.html
http://continuouswave.com/whaler/reference/standardTransomBracket.html
You said you need twins, you bought twins, you might like this link also.
http://continuouswave.com/ubb/Forum4/HTML/004167.html
L H G posted 07-22-2013 07:51 PM ET (US)
I've been running twins on my Outrage 18 since I bought it new in 1986, so maybe I can help you out.
See here:
http://continuouswave.com/whaler/reference/standardTransomBracket.html
And here is the boat re-powered with Merc 90's (305# advertized each):
http://smg.photobucket.com/user/lgoltz/library/Outrage%2018?sort=6& page=0#/user/lgoltz/library/Outrage%2018?sort=6&page=1& _suid=1374536422527008771112272161618
I installed 10" setback jackplates at the time because of the high HPand speed, and the ability to adjust the height. I also wanted to free up the splashwell for use. I soon found out that 18 Outrages don't take much engine height in twin installations because the engines are running in water coming off the sloping vees of the hull.
With twin 70's I would put the engines on the transom, up one set of holes. The boat will not be fast enough to take advantage of any additional height. Use jackplates only if you want to free up the transom like I did. That is a nice feature and worth doing. If I were doing it again, I would only use 4" or 6" setback plates. I think the Detwiler jackplates, now owned by Teleflex, are the best on the market. Hydraulic steering is must, See the link above for details.
I would not bother to raise the transom at all, unless you want to install 25" twins directly to the transom. I do not have water problems in the splashwell, but what I did was to insert plugs in the drains to keep ALL water out, and then installed a small 500 GPH pump (discharging directly over the transom, with separate float switch - always on) to get rid of any splash, etc. It works perfectly and keeps the splashwell dry. The twin batteries sit on DriDeck pads.
Feel free to ask any additional questions.
Russ 13 posted 07-23-2013 01:56 AM ET (US)
Well all-righty then....I guess you are getting twins!!
The fuel burn would be less with ONE engine, esp. IF it
was a new engine....
You can't sell me on the two is better idea.
(Unless you were running Mercurys, but that's another topic)
Both are run the same amount of hours.
Both draw their fuel from the same tank.
Your performance with a 150 single engine would be better....and you could always get a light two stroke kicker....Tohatsu's 9.9 is 70lbs.
...
Anyway back to the jack-plate idea.
IF you are going to use them to adjust the height of the engines on a regular basis....I would recommend: ATLAS mini
jackers, they are light weight & compact.
IF you are not going to adjust the height, go with manual
jack plates.
..
LHG I really like the teak on your boat...outstanding!!
The dual engine jack-plate setup.......weird!
But then you are towing it with a four door Cadillac sedan.... odd!!
As long as you are not wearing plaid pants & white loafers
when you boat........
cj85 posted 07-23-2013 09:58 AM ET (US)
Well as they say to each their own. I for one won't every own a single engine boat. Thanks everyone for their experiences and thanks for the links. I thought I had exhausted web info on this boat and there was some threads I hadn't seen. Now I can make decisions and move on!! Those new engines are just sitting in my shop collecting dust. Can't wait to get the boat on the water. I'll post pictures when complete which will be awhile as its going to be a full custom. This predicament has stalled progress for 5 weeks!! Thanks again everyone.

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Author	Topic: Hydraulic Jack Plates
cj85	posted 07-19-2013 08:15 PM ET (US) I need some advice. I have a 1985 Outrage 18 purchased with no power, as a project. I have purchased new Yamaha 70-HP yamaha four-stroke-cycle outboard engines. I got to thinking about the transom with 500-lbs of engine on it. I knew when I bought the boat it had some water intrusion on the engine mounting holes. I decided to replace the transom. I removed the old one and I'm glad I did. http://imageshack.us/a/img443/8665/4go5.jpg Probably strong enough but I fish in the ocean exclusively and the boat will take a beating plus the extra weight. So I got to thinking that maybe I should raise the transom five-inches to help keep water out. Next, I figure I will have to mount the engines on hydraulic setback jack plates. If I did this set-up, then I could mount the engines at standard height but then use the lift of the jack plate)to clear the top of the new transom when tilting up. Upon looking at this site I have seen a whaler or two with the full transom and running a set back bracket. It appears that these single engine boats can almost tilt the engine all the way up. Should I just stick to manual jack plates? I need the opinions of some who have done the unusual to whalers. So I would like to hear what everyone has to say. The motors weigh 257-lbs. I had been thinking about using Bob's Machine Shop 10-inch set back jack plates that weigh 61-lbs or CMC Atlas 10-inch setback at 63-lbs. I will be moving the batteries forward, as well as up sizing the fuel tank at 70-75 gallons to help offset engine weight. Keep in mind that the jack plates would add a benefit since I launch in a local bay that at low tides can be very shallow and strand even small boats. I also feel it should help conserve fuel since I can dial into the sweet spot when running. All opinions welcome. Thanks in advance cj
Jamesgt727	posted 07-19-2013 09:54 PM ET (US) I currently have two boats with hydraulic plates: A 15 Whaler with a 90HP Merc 2S, 4" TH Atlas, low water pickups, sport lower unit with a surface piercing propeller, LOVE IT, can't get the motor high enough. A 1750 Wahoo! With a 90 Merc 4S, 6" Bobs Action Jac, standard lower unit, stainless Vengence Prop, HATE IT! Can't get the outboard low enough, put a stabilizer on it to settle its propensity to porpoise. If the plate ever goes bad or needs to be fixed its GONE!
Russ 13	posted 07-20-2013 01:36 AM ET (US) I have two boats both with hydraulic jack plates. 22'Whaler runs fine w/ jack plate, it is used when the water is skinny.. GREAT addition to the boat. I have another one on a 16' Action craft flats boat. BIG improvement, again when the water is skinny, and helps to eliminate any handling problems. .. * Having had a manual jack plate, I would ONLY go hydraulic, the manual ones are a BIG PAIN to adjust! ... WHY have small HP twins on a 18' boat??? A 150HP or 200HP will: BE LESS WEIGHT USE LESS FUEL RUN FASTER 1/2 the maintenance. ETC... ... With todays modern outboards, the "extra reliability" of twins is BALONEY....... .. GO with a nice single, I would suggest a Yamaha or Evenrude, Hydraulic jack plate & SELL the TWINS!! ... If you need a full transom, install a quality bracket, engineered for your hull. Armstrong comes to mind as a solid brand.
conch	posted 07-20-2013 10:22 AM ET (US) Remember when running the motors will probably be too low to clear the new transom if suddenly impacted with enough force to tilt them up,likely damaging the motor(s) and transom. I have a manual CMC jack plate on my 15 Sport works well, and twin hydraulic CMC jack plates on my 27 and love it. I totally agree with Russ 13 only get hydraulic jack plates and strongly consider a 200hp single engine.Maybe the Yamaha I4 The savings for rigging,props,controls,and jack plate would probably make up for any loss on the 70 Yamahas if you have them already. Maybe the dealer will take them back. Chuck
Mike Kub	posted 07-20-2013 03:54 PM ET (US) "sizing up the fuel tank to help offset engine weight"Man that's crazy! Put a single engine on.In addition to the reasons mentioned,twins on one of the finest looking boats of all time look funky. The force on the transom will be more than the weight due to the setback(I will try to locate my physics book to give specific amt.) I have that boat & take it 40 mi.into the Gulf & up into the marsh as well. I could use one of those F70"s on my 16'7" Whaler.Peace
cj85	posted 07-20-2013 05:04 PM ET (US) The boat is getting twins. I feel like we are getting off topic. So maybe we can stick to the discussion at hand? About jack plates with twins on a 18 outrage? Thanks guys and thanks for those that shared their jack plate experiences. Cj
jimh	posted 07-21-2013 11:39 AM ET (US) When I had set back brackets with manual height adjustment, I only made one adjustment.
dfmcintyre	posted 07-21-2013 09:02 PM ET (US) Ditto from Jim's experience. It took me a few tries to finally dial in the right amount of height. Have not adjusted it in a number of years. If you expect to travel in a lot of shallow flats type area, the hydraulic plates may be important to you, otherwise it's additional weight, complexity. Regards - Don PS - I did give this some thought before ordering the manual one.
cj85	posted 07-21-2013 09:25 PM ET (US) Either of you that have jack plates know how many inches up you moved your engines up? Trying to gather info to make this work on the first go around. Thanks Cj
Russ 13	posted 07-22-2013 01:03 AM ET (US) If you have to add jack plates & move a built in fuel tank to make "twins" work.....Due to excessive weight. I would suggest you rethink your idea. When that boat was manufactured, it was powered by a single. It was designed for the weight of a single outboard. .. Trade the new twin 70's in on a 150HP. Set up the 18' with a nice 150HP single & enjoy. And IF done right you will be able to sell it later, If you ever want to. ... Custom out of the ordinary owner built boats, are usually very hard to sell, regardless of the brand. If you MUST have twins, I would put them on a boat manufactured to run twins, say a small cat hull.
prj	posted 07-22-2013 01:40 PM ET (US) quote: When that boat was manufactured, it was powered by a single. It was designed for the weight of a single outboard. Correction. When this boat was designed, it was specifically designed for twins. From the transom cutout width, to the fuel manifold with dual outlets. Off topic misinformation isn't helping the original poster. Today's engines weigh more than those manufactured during the boat's design era, and it appears that cj85 is taking that into consideration.
cj85	posted 07-22-2013 02:34 PM ET (US) Thanks prj. Some people need to do their homework (like I have) before posting. The twins weigh 514 lbs combined were as a single 150 Yamaha weighs 487 lbs. so we are talking about 27 lbs. lots of 18 have a single and a kicker which puts close to 600 lbs on the transom. The upsizing ( not moving) of the tank is to help offset the weight of moving the engines back on jack plates, not to make twins work on this boat. Plus i make long runs to isolated places with little or no help if there is trouble hence the decision to buy twins. There is a boat I believe was buckda's (sorry if that's incorrect) that had twin 90 etecs. so 320 lbsx2= 640 lbs plus two jack plates at roughly 25 lbsx2= 50 lbs for a grand total of 690 lbs on the transom. Seems he reported no problems. I choose not to do twin 90hp engines because of weight and the waters i fish we are lucky to do 25 knots. My question was more in regards to the addition of 5 inches to the transom and using hydraulic jack plates. I could just buy shaft extensions and mount the engines to the transom sticking to the K.I.S.S method but performance and interior room will increase with the use of jack plates. So as I asked before maybe we could just stick to the questions that were asked? I'm not here asking for opinions on my engine choice. Thanks Cj
cj85	posted 07-22-2013 03:57 PM ET (US) Correction 150 Yamaha weighs 480 lbs so 34 lb difference not 27 lbs.
Plotman	posted 07-22-2013 06:46 PM ET (US) Twins also massively decrease the likelihood that you will ever get stuck out on the water due to a mechanical problem versus a large single. If the chance of having an engine malfunction is 1 day in 100, with a single, you run a 1% chance of getting stranded. With twins, you have a 0.01% chance (1 in 10,000). I guess it depends on whether you want to wait for sea tow - or even have it.
Freddy	posted 07-22-2013 07:21 PM ET (US) CJ, maybe some of these older threads might help you. http://continuouswave.com/ubb/Forum4/HTML/006806.html http://www.continuouswave.com/whaler/cetacea/cetaceaPage81.html http://continuouswave.com/whaler/reference/engineBrackets.html http://continuouswave.com/whaler/reference/standardTransomBracket.html You said you need twins, you bought twins, you might like this link also. http://continuouswave.com/ubb/Forum4/HTML/004167.html
L H G	posted 07-22-2013 07:51 PM ET (US) I've been running twins on my Outrage 18 since I bought it new in 1986, so maybe I can help you out. See here: http://continuouswave.com/whaler/reference/standardTransomBracket.html And here is the boat re-powered with Merc 90's (305# advertized each): http://smg.photobucket.com/user/lgoltz/library/Outrage%2018?sort=6& page=0#/user/lgoltz/library/Outrage%2018?sort=6&page=1& _suid=1374536422527008771112272161618 I installed 10" setback jackplates at the time because of the high HPand speed, and the ability to adjust the height. I also wanted to free up the splashwell for use. I soon found out that 18 Outrages don't take much engine height in twin installations because the engines are running in water coming off the sloping vees of the hull. With twin 70's I would put the engines on the transom, up one set of holes. The boat will not be fast enough to take advantage of any additional height. Use jackplates only if you want to free up the transom like I did. That is a nice feature and worth doing. If I were doing it again, I would only use 4" or 6" setback plates. I think the Detwiler jackplates, now owned by Teleflex, are the best on the market. Hydraulic steering is must, See the link above for details. I would not bother to raise the transom at all, unless you want to install 25" twins directly to the transom. I do not have water problems in the splashwell, but what I did was to insert plugs in the drains to keep ALL water out, and then installed a small 500 GPH pump (discharging directly over the transom, with separate float switch - always on) to get rid of any splash, etc. It works perfectly and keeps the splashwell dry. The twin batteries sit on DriDeck pads. Feel free to ask any additional questions.
Russ 13	posted 07-23-2013 01:56 AM ET (US) Well all-righty then....I guess you are getting twins!! The fuel burn would be less with ONE engine, esp. IF it was a new engine.... You can't sell me on the two is better idea. (Unless you were running Mercurys, but that's another topic) Both are run the same amount of hours. Both draw their fuel from the same tank. Your performance with a 150 single engine would be better....and you could always get a light two stroke kicker....Tohatsu's 9.9 is 70lbs. ... Anyway back to the jack-plate idea. IF you are going to use them to adjust the height of the engines on a regular basis....I would recommend: ATLAS mini jackers, they are light weight & compact. IF you are not going to adjust the height, go with manual jack plates. .. LHG I really like the teak on your boat...outstanding!! The dual engine jack-plate setup.......weird! But then you are towing it with a four door Cadillac sedan.... odd!! As long as you are not wearing plaid pants & white loafers when you boat........
cj85	posted 07-23-2013 09:58 AM ET (US) Well as they say to each their own. I for one won't every own a single engine boat. Thanks everyone for their experiences and thanks for the links. I thought I had exhausted web info on this boat and there was some threads I hadn't seen. Now I can make decisions and move on!! Those new engines are just sitting in my shop collecting dust. Can't wait to get the boat on the water. I'll post pictures when complete which will be awhile as its going to be a full custom. This predicament has stalled progress for 5 weeks!! Thanks again everyone.