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Author Topic:   Navigation Lamp Re-wiring

gmoulder posted 09-03-2013 04:07 PM ET (US)
The port [sidelight lamp] on my 1988 Outrage 18 has decided not to work as a result of a wiring [malfunction] between the lamp and the console. I just purchased a set of good condition lamps from a fellow CW member. The boat repair shop says that he cannot rewire as the old wiring is "foamed in". Sure this is not the first time this has happened. How do I rewire the lamp? Thanks for the help.
Glen
Tom W Clark posted 09-03-2013 06:03 PM ET (US)
Glen -- Your boat repair shop is not too smart. The wire runs to the bow via the rub rail insert. All you need to do is trace to see that is the case.
It is easy to replace the wire, and I suggest you replace it all. Peel out the insert, yank the old wire, lay in new wire and replace the insert.
Use good tinned marine grade AWG-16 wire. I like Ancor brand wire for this.
HawaiianWhaler posted 09-03-2013 08:58 PM ET (US)
Before you go through the work of pulling the rub rail insert and replacing the wiring, may I suggest that you check the connection from the starboard lamp to the port lamp? If your starboard lamp works normally but your port lamp does not, then that would indicate the wiring under the rub rail is intact since that wiring supplies power to both lights. On my Whaler, the wires from the navigation light switch run along the starboard side to the starboard lamp, where there is a splice to the wires which go to the port lamp. The weak spot most likely to fail is at the in-line butt connector used for that splice. Good luck.
jimh posted 09-04-2013 08:36 AM ET (US)
Please see the answer to your frequently asked question in
http://continuouswave.com/whaler/reference/FAQ/#Q4
particularly the paragraph that begins "After about 1972..."
gmoulder posted 09-04-2013 06:09 PM ET (US)
You guys are so good. Thanks for the great help.
Glen
jimh posted 09-04-2013 08:58 PM ET (US)
If you buy new wire, get 16-AWG with GRAY insulation for the navigation lamp circuit. You can use BLACK for the negative return; if you have 120-VAC wiring use YELLOW for the negative return to distinguish it from the AC wiring. If you can't find a local source, you buy decent wire on-line from GENUINEDEALZ.COM. I have purchased marine-grade primary wire from them. It is often ANCOR brand wire, although they do not specify that.
Tom W Clark posted 09-05-2013 10:51 AM ET (US)
It is difficult to run two separate strands of wire inside the rub rail insert. Buy duplex wire to make that task much easier.
jimh posted 09-05-2013 09:06 PM ET (US)
I think Tom is recommending unsheathed two-conductor cable, often called "lamp cord" from its use in electrical lamps. Boston Whaler used two-conductor unsheathed cable with a gray conductor and a black with gray stripe conductor. I don't have any source to buy that sort of cable in small quantity.
You can make your own two-conductor unsheathed cable by using a small section of heat shrink tubing to hold the conductors together. Space the heat shrink every foot or so, and that ought to give you something similar to the lamp cord.
Ancor sells a cable they call "flat ribbon cable" that might be useful. See
http://www.marinco.com/product/flat-ribbon-cable
This cable should be much better than their cable called "duplex cable" which is quite larger in size due to the insulating sheath. I think Ancor Duplex cable would be much hard to install under the rub rail due to the added size from the sheath.
L H G posted 09-06-2013 03:03 AM ET (US)
Cabela's sells 2 wire duplex, unsheathed marine wire in both 16 and 10 gauges (by the foot). Wires are red and black.
Tom W Clark posted 09-07-2013 12:46 PM ET (US)
The Cableas wire they call "bonded". Not sure if that refers to the strands being tinned or the two conductors being bonded together, but no matter; they sell it at an excellent price.
I like ANCOR (Marinco) wire and buy the 16 gauge red/black duplex wire by the spool.
Before I found that ANCOR offered this unsheathed duplex wire, I used to just buy ANCOR's 16 gauge speaker wire, which is also fully tinned, which is the important party. It used to be fairly inexpensive (<$1/ft) but the real advantage of it is that it is carried by places like West Marine so it is easy to find and buy by the foot.
Given that the wire run is fully concealed by the rub rail and hull, the color of the insulation is of no concern to me.
Any fully tinned wire will be vastly superior to what Whaler used to use, which looked just plain old gray lamp cord (Whaler called it "2-strand zip cord"), untinned and prone to corrosion.
http://www.cabelas.com/product/Marine-Grade-Wire-16-Gauge-Bonded/700344. uts
gmoulder posted 09-28-2013 01:02 AM ET (US)
The repairs are complete, and thanks to all who explained to me about the wiring. The problems were a broken connection for the all-round lamp at the switch post, and a broken splice at the port sidelight lamp where the lamp to wiring connection was made. Everything works now, sort of. Using the old bulbs, they are small, the lights work. If I install a new larger bulb (and the only one that West handles here) the navigation lights do not work. Thinking that the cause is corrosion. Will clean up the sockets and the connection points and the base of the socket.
These are two point bayonet bulbs. I assume the current flow is through the two points at the bottom of the socket, is there any profit to shining up the inside of socket, or only a need for cleaning up the contacts at the base of the socket? Thanks, Glen
jimh posted 09-28-2013 08:32 AM ET (US)
Usually the miniature electric light bulbs used in the navigation lamps are single filament bulbs, and these normally have only one contact on the bottom of the base; the brass base is the other contact. Dual filament miniature electric lightbulbs usually have two contacts on the bottom of the base, but these are typically not used in marine navigation lighting.
Tom W Clark posted 09-28-2013 10:50 AM ET (US)
Most bulbs used in Boston Whaler navigation lights are single filament, dual contact bulbs because the bulb sockets are plastic, not brass.
jimh posted 09-29-2013 11:11 AM ET (US)
Tom--Thanks for that interesting information on the bulbs and sockets. It has been my exceedingly good fortune that all the miniature electric lightbulbs in my navigation lamps are still the original lamps, and I have not had to replace them. It is also my observation, perhaps somewhat anecdotal, that miniature incandescent lightbulbs made in the USA in the 1980's tend to last a lot longer than the ones made in 2013 in Asia.
jimh posted 09-30-2013 09:07 AM ET (US)
What is the miniature electric lightbulb number designation that is typically used in the sidelight lamps? Most of these have a three-digit or four-digit identifier. It would be handy to have that information.
Tom W Clark posted 09-30-2013 11:22 AM ET (US)
1142 was used in the Wilcox-Critteneden bow lights under discussion here.
jimh posted 09-30-2013 01:42 PM ET (US)
Thanks: An 1142 is listed as an 18-watt lightbulb. No wonder so many of those old navigation lamp lens become distorted from heat.
http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/ GE-LIGHTING-Miniature-Incandescent-Bulb-6VF39?

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Author	Topic: Navigation Lamp Re-wiring
gmoulder	posted 09-03-2013 04:07 PM ET (US) The port [sidelight lamp] on my 1988 Outrage 18 has decided not to work as a result of a wiring [malfunction] between the lamp and the console. I just purchased a set of good condition lamps from a fellow CW member. The boat repair shop says that he cannot rewire as the old wiring is "foamed in". Sure this is not the first time this has happened. How do I rewire the lamp? Thanks for the help. Glen
Tom W Clark	posted 09-03-2013 06:03 PM ET (US) Glen -- Your boat repair shop is not too smart. The wire runs to the bow via the rub rail insert. All you need to do is trace to see that is the case. It is easy to replace the wire, and I suggest you replace it all. Peel out the insert, yank the old wire, lay in new wire and replace the insert. Use good tinned marine grade AWG-16 wire. I like Ancor brand wire for this.
HawaiianWhaler	posted 09-03-2013 08:58 PM ET (US) Before you go through the work of pulling the rub rail insert and replacing the wiring, may I suggest that you check the connection from the starboard lamp to the port lamp? If your starboard lamp works normally but your port lamp does not, then that would indicate the wiring under the rub rail is intact since that wiring supplies power to both lights. On my Whaler, the wires from the navigation light switch run along the starboard side to the starboard lamp, where there is a splice to the wires which go to the port lamp. The weak spot most likely to fail is at the in-line butt connector used for that splice. Good luck.
jimh	posted 09-04-2013 08:36 AM ET (US) Please see the answer to your frequently asked question in http://continuouswave.com/whaler/reference/FAQ/#Q4 particularly the paragraph that begins "After about 1972..."
gmoulder	posted 09-04-2013 06:09 PM ET (US) You guys are so good. Thanks for the great help. Glen
jimh	posted 09-04-2013 08:58 PM ET (US) If you buy new wire, get 16-AWG with GRAY insulation for the navigation lamp circuit. You can use BLACK for the negative return; if you have 120-VAC wiring use YELLOW for the negative return to distinguish it from the AC wiring. If you can't find a local source, you buy decent wire on-line from GENUINEDEALZ.COM. I have purchased marine-grade primary wire from them. It is often ANCOR brand wire, although they do not specify that.
Tom W Clark	posted 09-05-2013 10:51 AM ET (US) It is difficult to run two separate strands of wire inside the rub rail insert. Buy duplex wire to make that task much easier.
jimh	posted 09-05-2013 09:06 PM ET (US) I think Tom is recommending unsheathed two-conductor cable, often called "lamp cord" from its use in electrical lamps. Boston Whaler used two-conductor unsheathed cable with a gray conductor and a black with gray stripe conductor. I don't have any source to buy that sort of cable in small quantity. You can make your own two-conductor unsheathed cable by using a small section of heat shrink tubing to hold the conductors together. Space the heat shrink every foot or so, and that ought to give you something similar to the lamp cord. Ancor sells a cable they call "flat ribbon cable" that might be useful. See http://www.marinco.com/product/flat-ribbon-cable This cable should be much better than their cable called "duplex cable" which is quite larger in size due to the insulating sheath. I think Ancor Duplex cable would be much hard to install under the rub rail due to the added size from the sheath.
L H G	posted 09-06-2013 03:03 AM ET (US) Cabela's sells 2 wire duplex, unsheathed marine wire in both 16 and 10 gauges (by the foot). Wires are red and black.
Tom W Clark	posted 09-07-2013 12:46 PM ET (US) The Cableas wire they call "bonded". Not sure if that refers to the strands being tinned or the two conductors being bonded together, but no matter; they sell it at an excellent price. I like ANCOR (Marinco) wire and buy the 16 gauge red/black duplex wire by the spool. Before I found that ANCOR offered this unsheathed duplex wire, I used to just buy ANCOR's 16 gauge speaker wire, which is also fully tinned, which is the important party. It used to be fairly inexpensive (<$1/ft) but the real advantage of it is that it is carried by places like West Marine so it is easy to find and buy by the foot. Given that the wire run is fully concealed by the rub rail and hull, the color of the insulation is of no concern to me. Any fully tinned wire will be vastly superior to what Whaler used to use, which looked just plain old gray lamp cord (Whaler called it "2-strand zip cord"), untinned and prone to corrosion. http://www.cabelas.com/product/Marine-Grade-Wire-16-Gauge-Bonded/700344. uts
gmoulder	posted 09-28-2013 01:02 AM ET (US) The repairs are complete, and thanks to all who explained to me about the wiring. The problems were a broken connection for the all-round lamp at the switch post, and a broken splice at the port sidelight lamp where the lamp to wiring connection was made. Everything works now, sort of. Using the old bulbs, they are small, the lights work. If I install a new larger bulb (and the only one that West handles here) the navigation lights do not work. Thinking that the cause is corrosion. Will clean up the sockets and the connection points and the base of the socket. These are two point bayonet bulbs. I assume the current flow is through the two points at the bottom of the socket, is there any profit to shining up the inside of socket, or only a need for cleaning up the contacts at the base of the socket? Thanks, Glen
jimh	posted 09-28-2013 08:32 AM ET (US) Usually the miniature electric light bulbs used in the navigation lamps are single filament bulbs, and these normally have only one contact on the bottom of the base; the brass base is the other contact. Dual filament miniature electric lightbulbs usually have two contacts on the bottom of the base, but these are typically not used in marine navigation lighting.
Tom W Clark	posted 09-28-2013 10:50 AM ET (US) Most bulbs used in Boston Whaler navigation lights are single filament, dual contact bulbs because the bulb sockets are plastic, not brass.
jimh	posted 09-29-2013 11:11 AM ET (US) Tom--Thanks for that interesting information on the bulbs and sockets. It has been my exceedingly good fortune that all the miniature electric lightbulbs in my navigation lamps are still the original lamps, and I have not had to replace them. It is also my observation, perhaps somewhat anecdotal, that miniature incandescent lightbulbs made in the USA in the 1980's tend to last a lot longer than the ones made in 2013 in Asia.
jimh	posted 09-30-2013 09:07 AM ET (US) What is the miniature electric lightbulb number designation that is typically used in the sidelight lamps? Most of these have a three-digit or four-digit identifier. It would be handy to have that information.
Tom W Clark	posted 09-30-2013 11:22 AM ET (US) 1142 was used in the Wilcox-Critteneden bow lights under discussion here.
jimh	posted 09-30-2013 01:42 PM ET (US) Thanks: An 1142 is listed as an 18-watt lightbulb. No wonder so many of those old navigation lamp lens become distorted from heat. http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/ GE-LIGHTING-Miniature-Incandescent-Bulb-6VF39?