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Author Topic:   Rub rail fasteners

skred posted 10-02-2013 12:02 PM ET (US)
I plan to use stainless steel screws to replace my rub rail track after removing the rivets. Will 3/4 inch screws be sufficient? It's tough to find a reasonably price bulk pack of anything longer. These are less than $3.00 for 60 ct packages....

Tom W Clark posted 10-02-2013 12:16 PM ET (US)
If you are talking about the Barbour rub rail for a small Whaler, 3/4" will be sufficient.
Be sure to get truss head screws if you want to have a chance of having wire in the rub rail insert.
skred posted 10-02-2013 01:52 PM ET (US)
I have the OEM Whaler track and insert. Thanks.
Keeper posted 10-02-2013 05:23 PM ET (US)
Not to change your mind . . . but I used rivets.
I was very reluctant to do so . . . but am EXTREMELY glad I did.
No experience with screws in that application . . . but I can tell you that the rivets aren't going ANYWHERE.
Sebash4 posted 10-02-2013 08:27 PM ET (US)
Just replaced the rub rail on my 15 which I purchased from Sue at Twin Cities. She recommend rivets but if you go with the stainless she recommended the chrome plated stainless from BW. A little more pricey but a really good grade of stainless.

blacksmithdog posted 10-03-2013 01:35 PM ET (US)
I replaced the rub rail on my 15' GLS this past summer. I had the choice of rivets or screws. I opted for the screws. It seems like they were 2" long. I still have some, I'll check the length when I get home.
blacksmithdog posted 10-04-2013 04:54 AM ET (US)
The screws that come with the rubrail are round head #8X1-1/2"
skred posted 10-04-2013 12:44 PM ET (US)
Your replies got me thinking: I purchased the outer 2 components for my replacement, because the inner "spacer" was in good shape. I have never used pop rivets, but the procedure seems quite simple. My question on that would be: after I mill off the old rivet head, and push the shaft into the interior(as long as I don't enlarge the original hole), can I use the same diameter rivets as the original. I could also simply drill new rivet holes and fill the old ones.
I don't even know if rivets come in larger diameters. Have to admit that rivets are way less expensive: the tool is only about 10 bucks, and rivets are really reasonable compared to the price of at least 140 stainless screws.
tjxtreme posted 10-04-2013 01:34 PM ET (US)
Yes you could theoretically use the same holes. On mine I filled and drilled new holes because the challenge of finding the old holes through the new rubrail would have been a huge pain. Make sure you use extra rivets around the more curved areas, and try a couple practice rivets on something less important to see how it works from both sides.
Ridge Runner posted 10-04-2013 01:48 PM ET (US)
If you do decide to go with screws make sure to use 316 stainless steel ones not 304.
Ridge Runner posted 10-04-2013 01:56 PM ET (US)
100 Count #8 316 Stainless Steel Round Head screws http://www.amazon.com/DrillSpot-Phillips-Sheet-Metal-Stainless/dp/ B00A9AP8OE/ref=sr_1_13?ie=UTF8&qid=1380909244&sr=8-13&keywords=%238+ 1-1%2F2+316+sheet+metal+screws
skred posted 10-04-2013 03:34 PM ET (US)
Thanks for all the advice. I agree it'd be easier to drill new holes: lining up the old ones would be a real pain...
wannabe posted 10-04-2013 10:25 PM ET (US)
I used screws provided with my rub rail from Sue @ Twin Cities and the screws worked well. I filled the old holes and drilled new ones. Much easier with a spare set of hands on a warm day.
Drew
anthonylisske posted 10-04-2013 11:50 PM ET (US)
I hate to come off like an ahole, but I used rivets when I replaced the rubrail on my 1972 smoothside 21. If the rivets held for 30 years, why go to another method?
Go rivets. They are a dream to install and will last approx 30 years
macfam posted 10-05-2013 07:26 AM ET (US)
I borrowed a pneumatic rivet gun............sweet!
wannabe posted 10-05-2013 08:41 AM ET (US)
Anthony, I believe the use of rivets was more an issue of speed than what is better. I did not have access to a quality rivet gun and didn't want to purchase one.
In the trades we say " There's more than one way to do it". The screws worked well and I am confident of the long term installation of the rub rail. No issues with either method, I just wanted to pass along screws work well also.
Drew
Tom W Clark posted 10-05-2013 09:30 AM ET (US)
I too have installed my share of Whaler rub rails. I would not use anything but pop rivets.
I think the aversion to using rivets comes mostly from folks who have never used a pop rivet or pop rivet tool and do not know how easy it is.
I use a hardware-store grade pop rivet tool I bought 27 years ago. I still use it today. It was an extremely modest investment.
http://www.acehardware.com/product/index.jsp?productId=1286496
wannabe posted 10-05-2013 01:26 PM ET (US)
Tom, I have have a pop rivet tool of that type although I didn't want to end up with carpal tunnel syndrome after two hundred rivets. No stranger to rivets nor was my auto body shop owner assistant. If you want to replicate what the factory did, I get it. All is good.
tmann45 posted 10-05-2013 04:13 PM ET (US)
To those that used rivets; what kind of rivets did you use, stainless/monel or aluminum?
If you used stainless or monel, what type of rivet gun did you use, like the run of the mill that Tom Clark pictured or something more powerful?
I ask because I have used both aluminum and stainless/monel rivets and I found that the stainless/monel were extremely hard to apply with the normal rivet gun that I have.
skred posted 10-08-2013 10:33 AM ET (US)
After looking at a piece on the web about pop riveting, I decided to go that route. Found a really nice tool for about $15, and 3/16 x 5/8 aluminum rivets - 100 ct. bags - for less than $6.00 each.... Let the fun begin....
anthonylisske posted 10-13-2013 08:19 AM ET (US)
I used aluminum. The one thing I would recommend is review this site for installation instructions. I forget the article I read, but it was dead on in its procedure. Get the rubrail warm and install on a nice hot day, or at least in a warm garage. It is a two man job, three if you can wrangle up the manpower. One guy in front of you positioning the rubrail, one guy behind you holding down the rubrail, with you in the middle drilling and riveting.
Also, I pulled out, or pushed in the old rivets and filled the holes in with a glass mash.
Just FYI
Good luck
skred posted 10-13-2013 11:18 AM ET (US)
Anthony: I purchased2 100-ct bags of 3/16" x 5/8 aluminum pop rivets. I plan to do exactly what you described, including filling the previous holes. Thanks.
acseatsri posted 10-13-2013 01:06 PM ET (US)
Having replaced rub rails on a 13, 18, and 22 Whaler, the aluminum pop rivets are the only way to go.
A rivet grabs on the entire circumference of the hole.
A screw grabs on less than 1/2 of the hole and has a sharp edge which can eventually work and enlarge the hole.
contender posted 10-13-2013 05:09 PM ET (US)
I used t head stainless screws 1 inch from fastnel and put some 3m 4200 behind the rail as well, I used screws every 4 inches and measured and pre drill the rail. i did not use a factory rail but one from Taco, its a heavy black rubber and I found a red insert, Looks good fires off with the red whaler logo...

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Author	Topic: Rub rail fasteners
skred	posted 10-02-2013 12:02 PM ET (US) I plan to use stainless steel screws to replace my rub rail track after removing the rivets. Will 3/4 inch screws be sufficient? It's tough to find a reasonably price bulk pack of anything longer. These are less than $3.00 for 60 ct packages....
Tom W Clark	posted 10-02-2013 12:16 PM ET (US) If you are talking about the Barbour rub rail for a small Whaler, 3/4" will be sufficient. Be sure to get truss head screws if you want to have a chance of having wire in the rub rail insert.
skred	posted 10-02-2013 01:52 PM ET (US) I have the OEM Whaler track and insert. Thanks.
Keeper	posted 10-02-2013 05:23 PM ET (US) Not to change your mind . . . but I used rivets. I was very reluctant to do so . . . but am EXTREMELY glad I did. No experience with screws in that application . . . but I can tell you that the rivets aren't going ANYWHERE.
Sebash4	posted 10-02-2013 08:27 PM ET (US) Just replaced the rub rail on my 15 which I purchased from Sue at Twin Cities. She recommend rivets but if you go with the stainless she recommended the chrome plated stainless from BW. A little more pricey but a really good grade of stainless.
blacksmithdog	posted 10-03-2013 01:35 PM ET (US) I replaced the rub rail on my 15' GLS this past summer. I had the choice of rivets or screws. I opted for the screws. It seems like they were 2" long. I still have some, I'll check the length when I get home.
blacksmithdog	posted 10-04-2013 04:54 AM ET (US) The screws that come with the rubrail are round head #8X1-1/2"
skred	posted 10-04-2013 12:44 PM ET (US) Your replies got me thinking: I purchased the outer 2 components for my replacement, because the inner "spacer" was in good shape. I have never used pop rivets, but the procedure seems quite simple. My question on that would be: after I mill off the old rivet head, and push the shaft into the interior(as long as I don't enlarge the original hole), can I use the same diameter rivets as the original. I could also simply drill new rivet holes and fill the old ones. I don't even know if rivets come in larger diameters. Have to admit that rivets are way less expensive: the tool is only about 10 bucks, and rivets are really reasonable compared to the price of at least 140 stainless screws.
tjxtreme	posted 10-04-2013 01:34 PM ET (US) Yes you could theoretically use the same holes. On mine I filled and drilled new holes because the challenge of finding the old holes through the new rubrail would have been a huge pain. Make sure you use extra rivets around the more curved areas, and try a couple practice rivets on something less important to see how it works from both sides.
Ridge Runner	posted 10-04-2013 01:48 PM ET (US) If you do decide to go with screws make sure to use 316 stainless steel ones not 304.
Ridge Runner	posted 10-04-2013 01:56 PM ET (US) 100 Count #8 316 Stainless Steel Round Head screws http://www.amazon.com/DrillSpot-Phillips-Sheet-Metal-Stainless/dp/ B00A9AP8OE/ref=sr_1_13?ie=UTF8&qid=1380909244&sr=8-13&keywords=%238+ 1-1%2F2+316+sheet+metal+screws
skred	posted 10-04-2013 03:34 PM ET (US) Thanks for all the advice. I agree it'd be easier to drill new holes: lining up the old ones would be a real pain...
wannabe	posted 10-04-2013 10:25 PM ET (US) I used screws provided with my rub rail from Sue @ Twin Cities and the screws worked well. I filled the old holes and drilled new ones. Much easier with a spare set of hands on a warm day. Drew
anthonylisske	posted 10-04-2013 11:50 PM ET (US) I hate to come off like an ahole, but I used rivets when I replaced the rubrail on my 1972 smoothside 21. If the rivets held for 30 years, why go to another method? Go rivets. They are a dream to install and will last approx 30 years
macfam	posted 10-05-2013 07:26 AM ET (US) I borrowed a pneumatic rivet gun............sweet!
wannabe	posted 10-05-2013 08:41 AM ET (US) Anthony, I believe the use of rivets was more an issue of speed than what is better. I did not have access to a quality rivet gun and didn't want to purchase one. In the trades we say " There's more than one way to do it". The screws worked well and I am confident of the long term installation of the rub rail. No issues with either method, I just wanted to pass along screws work well also. Drew
Tom W Clark	posted 10-05-2013 09:30 AM ET (US) I too have installed my share of Whaler rub rails. I would not use anything but pop rivets. I think the aversion to using rivets comes mostly from folks who have never used a pop rivet or pop rivet tool and do not know how easy it is. I use a hardware-store grade pop rivet tool I bought 27 years ago. I still use it today. It was an extremely modest investment. http://www.acehardware.com/product/index.jsp?productId=1286496
wannabe	posted 10-05-2013 01:26 PM ET (US) Tom, I have have a pop rivet tool of that type although I didn't want to end up with carpal tunnel syndrome after two hundred rivets. No stranger to rivets nor was my auto body shop owner assistant. If you want to replicate what the factory did, I get it. All is good.
tmann45	posted 10-05-2013 04:13 PM ET (US) To those that used rivets; what kind of rivets did you use, stainless/monel or aluminum? If you used stainless or monel, what type of rivet gun did you use, like the run of the mill that Tom Clark pictured or something more powerful? I ask because I have used both aluminum and stainless/monel rivets and I found that the stainless/monel were extremely hard to apply with the normal rivet gun that I have.
skred	posted 10-08-2013 10:33 AM ET (US) After looking at a piece on the web about pop riveting, I decided to go that route. Found a really nice tool for about $15, and 3/16 x 5/8 aluminum rivets - 100 ct. bags - for less than $6.00 each.... Let the fun begin....
anthonylisske	posted 10-13-2013 08:19 AM ET (US) I used aluminum. The one thing I would recommend is review this site for installation instructions. I forget the article I read, but it was dead on in its procedure. Get the rubrail warm and install on a nice hot day, or at least in a warm garage. It is a two man job, three if you can wrangle up the manpower. One guy in front of you positioning the rubrail, one guy behind you holding down the rubrail, with you in the middle drilling and riveting. Also, I pulled out, or pushed in the old rivets and filled the holes in with a glass mash. Just FYI Good luck
skred	posted 10-13-2013 11:18 AM ET (US) Anthony: I purchased2 100-ct bags of 3/16" x 5/8 aluminum pop rivets. I plan to do exactly what you described, including filling the previous holes. Thanks.
acseatsri	posted 10-13-2013 01:06 PM ET (US) Having replaced rub rails on a 13, 18, and 22 Whaler, the aluminum pop rivets are the only way to go. A rivet grabs on the entire circumference of the hole. A screw grabs on less than 1/2 of the hole and has a sharp edge which can eventually work and enlarge the hole.
contender	posted 10-13-2013 05:09 PM ET (US) I used t head stainless screws 1 inch from fastnel and put some 3m 4200 behind the rail as well, I used screws every 4 inches and measured and pre drill the rail. i did not use a factory rail but one from Taco, its a heavy black rubber and I found a red insert, Looks good fires off with the red whaler logo...