SeaStar Hydraulic Steering Stiff; Varies with Tilt

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Author Topic:   SeaStar Hydraulic Steering Stiff; Varies with Tilt

Matty_Cardin posted 06-10-2014 10:28 PM ET (US)
My SeaStar steering mechanism has become stiffer and stiffer over the last two or three seasons, and I've just dealt with it. This year, it's getting to the point where it's unsafe and difficult to drive the boat. Since I haven't had time to take the SeaStar unit apart or check the helm, I thought I'd explain something that I thought was unique.
The boat is 2001 18 Dauntless with a Honda 130-HP. The engine [perhaps means steering wheel] is very hard to turn when [the engine is] trimmed all the way down. When [the engine is] trimmed up, the engine [perhaps means steering wheel] becomes much easier to turn. Any ideas what this could be, shy of simply cleaning the system and re-greasing it?
Thanks everyone and happy boating!
jimh posted 06-10-2014 11:26 PM ET (US)
Do you get the variation of steering force with engine tilt position if you try this without the engine running and the boat underway?
Matty_Cardin posted 06-11-2014 03:38 PM ET (US)
Jimh, Yes - your correct - I do get steering force variation at different levels of tilt, with the most force being needed when engine is trimmed completely down.
I have not officially tested the steering when not under power, but I do recall it being the same situation when the boat was dry on the trailer this spring.
Any thoughts?
russellbailey posted 06-11-2014 07:27 PM ET (US)
My first guess would be that you need to grease the parts where the steering cylinder connects to the tilt tube. That would explain the relationship between tilt angle and force required.
There is no way the helm could cause what you are describing.
I suppose it is possible that you are pinching a hydraulic hose as you tilt the motor. If greasing the steering cylinder connections does not fix it, I'd check the hoses next.
Good luck.
contender posted 06-11-2014 10:11 PM ET (US)
I can only think of 3 things that might be bad, But I kinda agree with Russ, Blocked Valve, bent rod, or kinked hose. Being a hyd steering system your steering should turn the engine the same up or down. I do not know a Honda well but I would also check the connection of the steering arm to the cylinder...good luck
Matty_Cardin posted 07-15-2014 11:30 AM ET (US)
Ok Guys, Thanks for all your support and suggestions. Sorry for the late response, but life has gotten away and I haven't been able to spend too much time around the ol' boat, but we have a diagnosis. I'm a bit ashamed to say what is, since it's fairly obvious in hind site, but when you are the only one working on it, it's tough to see "all" the moving parts.
So, it turns out the support bracket that connects the steering tube with the support rod (or rod that goes in and out of the piston) on the starboard side has seized. This should be a moving part and should pivot with the motor tilt/trim. The bracket tilts at a lesser degree than the motor, and so when the motor is at full tilt down, the support rod bends and cannot easily move in/out of the steering piston which causes stiffening in the steering at this position.
It happens to be that the steering bracket is seized in a spot that allows normal steering when the motor is trimmed up (as it would be on plain at higher speeds)the steering bracket. This was the main cause of my confusion.
As usual, I've over complicated the mechanics out of a fast diagnosis. I'm hoping the fix will be to shoot it with penetrating oil daily and take a pipe wrench to it to try and break it free. If not, heat and force may need to be used.
Thanks for your help and thoughts.
Matty C.
picflight posted 07-15-2014 03:26 PM ET (US)
Shouldn't there be a grease fitting somewhere there?
masbama posted 07-16-2014 10:15 AM ET (US)
I put Sea Star steering on my 1999 18 Dauntless a couple of years ago with the notion that it would steer free and easy at all trim levels and speeds. It does not. When on plane and motor trimmed down it is hard to steer, especially to port. I think that the motor sits low in the water and there is so much torque that it causes it to act that way. Steers easier when tilted up but it that causes the porpoise effect.
boatdryver posted 07-16-2014 10:43 AM ET (US)
The hydraulic steering on my 2007 200 Dauntless behaves the same as Masbama's description.
I think this is normal.
For me, I only have full down trim when accelerating up on plane, then I trim different degrees of bow up depending on speed, and the steering is easy to either side. With my boat there is no porpoising (no trim tabs).
Interestingly, the 175 HP Verado is not fitted with a trim tab.
JimL
Jefecinco posted 07-18-2014 09:45 AM ET (US)
We need to keep in mind that we are discussing hydraulic steering rather than power steering. The hydraulic advantage is linear so the advantage is the same regardless of trim or angle of turn. Therefore the resistance to turning the wheel will increase with a "down" trim angle in the same way that it increases without hydraulic steering.
Butch
sosmerc posted 07-23-2014 12:43 AM ET (US)
I agree with Jef, steering effort will vary with engine trim setting and can be compensated for with an adjustable trim tab or torque tab installed on the starboard side of the skeg.
Matty_Cardin posted 07-28-2014 11:39 AM ET (US)
Whelp - I'll be replacing the motor steering assembly as well as the steering tube on the motor, since steering tube rod is not coming out.
The silver lining - while the motor is lifter off the boat, I'll be jacking the mounting plate to the bottom hole (all the way up) to decrease drag and increase performance. I hope this doesn't create the need to re-prop or have any negative effects on performance.
I guess I'll also have a completely replaced steering assembly that I can now properly monitor and maintain from here on out.
Thanks all for your input...I'll be taking donations to meet my $1,000 repair fund goal? Anyone? Bueller?
Matty_Cardin posted 08-05-2014 03:12 PM ET (US)
Steering assembly and tilt tube pin has been replaced. Steering is 100% better and is a joy to drive, once again. While we we're at it - I lifted the motor three holes up and gained a few mph on the WOT and slightly less bow rise out of the hole.
Thanks again for the support, thoughts and wisdom this forum offers!

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Author	Topic: SeaStar Hydraulic Steering Stiff; Varies with Tilt
Matty_Cardin	posted 06-10-2014 10:28 PM ET (US) My SeaStar steering mechanism has become stiffer and stiffer over the last two or three seasons, and I've just dealt with it. This year, it's getting to the point where it's unsafe and difficult to drive the boat. Since I haven't had time to take the SeaStar unit apart or check the helm, I thought I'd explain something that I thought was unique. The boat is 2001 18 Dauntless with a Honda 130-HP. The engine [perhaps means steering wheel] is very hard to turn when [the engine is] trimmed all the way down. When [the engine is] trimmed up, the engine [perhaps means steering wheel] becomes much easier to turn. Any ideas what this could be, shy of simply cleaning the system and re-greasing it? Thanks everyone and happy boating!
jimh	posted 06-10-2014 11:26 PM ET (US) Do you get the variation of steering force with engine tilt position if you try this without the engine running and the boat underway?
Matty_Cardin	posted 06-11-2014 03:38 PM ET (US) Jimh, Yes - your correct - I do get steering force variation at different levels of tilt, with the most force being needed when engine is trimmed completely down. I have not officially tested the steering when not under power, but I do recall it being the same situation when the boat was dry on the trailer this spring. Any thoughts?
russellbailey	posted 06-11-2014 07:27 PM ET (US) My first guess would be that you need to grease the parts where the steering cylinder connects to the tilt tube. That would explain the relationship between tilt angle and force required. There is no way the helm could cause what you are describing. I suppose it is possible that you are pinching a hydraulic hose as you tilt the motor. If greasing the steering cylinder connections does not fix it, I'd check the hoses next. Good luck.
contender	posted 06-11-2014 10:11 PM ET (US) I can only think of 3 things that might be bad, But I kinda agree with Russ, Blocked Valve, bent rod, or kinked hose. Being a hyd steering system your steering should turn the engine the same up or down. I do not know a Honda well but I would also check the connection of the steering arm to the cylinder...good luck
Matty_Cardin	posted 07-15-2014 11:30 AM ET (US) Ok Guys, Thanks for all your support and suggestions. Sorry for the late response, but life has gotten away and I haven't been able to spend too much time around the ol' boat, but we have a diagnosis. I'm a bit ashamed to say what is, since it's fairly obvious in hind site, but when you are the only one working on it, it's tough to see "all" the moving parts. So, it turns out the support bracket that connects the steering tube with the support rod (or rod that goes in and out of the piston) on the starboard side has seized. This should be a moving part and should pivot with the motor tilt/trim. The bracket tilts at a lesser degree than the motor, and so when the motor is at full tilt down, the support rod bends and cannot easily move in/out of the steering piston which causes stiffening in the steering at this position. It happens to be that the steering bracket is seized in a spot that allows normal steering when the motor is trimmed up (as it would be on plain at higher speeds)the steering bracket. This was the main cause of my confusion. As usual, I've over complicated the mechanics out of a fast diagnosis. I'm hoping the fix will be to shoot it with penetrating oil daily and take a pipe wrench to it to try and break it free. If not, heat and force may need to be used. Thanks for your help and thoughts. Matty C.
picflight	posted 07-15-2014 03:26 PM ET (US) Shouldn't there be a grease fitting somewhere there?
masbama	posted 07-16-2014 10:15 AM ET (US) I put Sea Star steering on my 1999 18 Dauntless a couple of years ago with the notion that it would steer free and easy at all trim levels and speeds. It does not. When on plane and motor trimmed down it is hard to steer, especially to port. I think that the motor sits low in the water and there is so much torque that it causes it to act that way. Steers easier when tilted up but it that causes the porpoise effect.
boatdryver	posted 07-16-2014 10:43 AM ET (US) The hydraulic steering on my 2007 200 Dauntless behaves the same as Masbama's description. I think this is normal. For me, I only have full down trim when accelerating up on plane, then I trim different degrees of bow up depending on speed, and the steering is easy to either side. With my boat there is no porpoising (no trim tabs). Interestingly, the 175 HP Verado is not fitted with a trim tab. JimL
Jefecinco	posted 07-18-2014 09:45 AM ET (US) We need to keep in mind that we are discussing hydraulic steering rather than power steering. The hydraulic advantage is linear so the advantage is the same regardless of trim or angle of turn. Therefore the resistance to turning the wheel will increase with a "down" trim angle in the same way that it increases without hydraulic steering. Butch
sosmerc	posted 07-23-2014 12:43 AM ET (US) I agree with Jef, steering effort will vary with engine trim setting and can be compensated for with an adjustable trim tab or torque tab installed on the starboard side of the skeg.
Matty_Cardin	posted 07-28-2014 11:39 AM ET (US) Whelp - I'll be replacing the motor steering assembly as well as the steering tube on the motor, since steering tube rod is not coming out. The silver lining - while the motor is lifter off the boat, I'll be jacking the mounting plate to the bottom hole (all the way up) to decrease drag and increase performance. I hope this doesn't create the need to re-prop or have any negative effects on performance. I guess I'll also have a completely replaced steering assembly that I can now properly monitor and maintain from here on out. Thanks all for your input...I'll be taking donations to meet my $1,000 repair fund goal? Anyone? Bueller?
Matty_Cardin	posted 08-05-2014 03:12 PM ET (US) Steering assembly and tilt tube pin has been replaced. Steering is 100% better and is a joy to drive, once again. While we we're at it - I lifted the motor three holes up and gained a few mph on the WOT and slightly less bow rise out of the hole. Thanks again for the support, thoughts and wisdom this forum offers!