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Author Topic:   18 Guardian: Removing, Replacing Fuel Tank

elvis posted 06-14-2014 04:52 PM ET (US)
Hi all, I have a 1987 Guardian 18, and I am ready to remove and replace the 63-gallon under-deck fuel tank, The fuel tank showed corrosion or pitting on top, and, since I'm restoring everything plus new motor, I decided to just put a new one in while it's apart.
Everything is out, and I have removed the straps and hoses. Today I took a pointed Disston hand saw and sawed down through all the foam on the sides until the saw touched the inner hull lining.
I took a long pinch bar and carefully pried up on the tank front, and it is tight--not moving--and I hate to damage a decent working tank. I sm not sure what to do next. More pressure? Is there a trick?
What say the experts out there in Whalerland?

contender posted 06-14-2014 08:29 PM ET (US)
You are removing the old tank and going to replace it, what do you care what damage you do to the old tank?, Its just going to be hard to get out the old tank with all the foam around the tank, the foam makes a real tight bind on the tank, you just have to dig the old foam out more....
Binkster posted 06-14-2014 10:03 PM ET (US)
I'm not claiming to be an expert but I dug a 65 gallon aluminum tank out of a 24 ft. Aquasport years ago. Dig out most of the foam from either the front or the rear, Make sure you get the foam out from under the middle above the keel. Now go and buy an 8' yellow pine 2x4. A normal pine 2x4 stud might break. Wedge the 2x4 under the tank at the keel. Now you have a very big wedge. Now just pry down from the top of the board and the tank will pop right out. It doesn't take much force as your force is increased about at least 8 times. BTW the tank I popped out was not damaged. I filled it with water, rinsed it out a couple of times and then cut off the corroded end with a circular saw, had a new end welded on, and reinstalled that tank.
Let us know how it works out.

rich
elvis posted 06-15-2014 05:21 PM ET (US)
Thanks, fellas. I like the yellow pine idea and the leverage concept. I'll keep digging out foam too, there is plenty to go around.
I would prefer not to damage the tank if possible as it's in working condition now, no leaks, as boat was on patrol in January of this year. I thought I could either sell it, or use it to store fuel as an emergency backup just in case...63 or so gallons is a nice backup, run a generator a long time...just sayin... Hate to ruin it if I can get it out without damaging it.
Well, thanks for the good input, and I'll let you how this turns out. Will probably order a new one this week...pretty pricey!
Thanks!
elvis posted 06-16-2014 05:17 AM ET (US)
Well, I got it to move a little on the front--like a 1/2" up and down--with the 2x4 on the front. The problem is the gap on the side is an inch or less, the stern gap is like 1-1/2-inches, so the only place to pry it is on the front, where a 2x4 barely will go in the gap.
Will be working on it this week, digging out foam. A tough job if I am to not damage the current tank, but that may end up happening, unfortunately. We'll see on that.
Thanks!
RMS posted 06-16-2014 08:46 AM ET (US)
Be careful using a pointed saw to dig out foam on the side of the tank. The saw can penetrate the inner hull lining without much effort. When I did this job, I removed the sending unit from the tank and inserted a metal rod connected to a chain. The chain was then fastened to a lumber 4X4 which spanned gunnel to gunnel. I then used a jack to elevate the lumber, which slowly raised the fuel tank out of the fuel tank cavity. The top of the tank was slightly deformed around the sending unit hole by this process, but that was not a concern to me. Bob
elvis posted 06-16-2014 08:28 PM ET (US)
RMS, Binkster,
Many thanks for the great advice, finally got it loose tonight...Binkster..your 2x4 idea was the ticket, THANKS! Sent you guys some photos.
Once tank was out, heavy heavy white, black, yuk corrosion on it, wow, and some holes corroded through on the bottom,,,sure am glad to get that thing out! Evidently it had been leaking but was sealed good enough not to really notice.
Doubt it is anything more than scrap aluminum, never seen corrosion this bad before. Unbelievable.

elvis posted 06-16-2014 08:41 PM ET (US)
Well, got the old original aluminum tank out, 1987 18' Guardian. Quite the job, thanks to some members here who shared their expertise and helped me big time!
It was incredibly corroded, with thick white cake actually cementing it to the sides with the foam--no wonder it was so hard to break loose. In addition, once out, I found HOLES in the bottom! I have lots of pics to email for those of you who are interested. The old tank is now scrap, I think.
That said, this week I'll be cleaning the hold out and polishing it in preparation for a new tank.
Some questions:
There was a soft white foam layer attached to the bottom of the tank to cushion it against the hold bottom. I need new [material], gasoline-proof. Where do I get this? I assume I need to be ethanol-proof, too, as most gas has ethanol.
What type foam for the sides? And where do I buy it? I want the good stuff like Boston Whaler uses.
For a replacement tanks I'm looking at Florida Marine tanks and SP Tanks. Are there any others worth checking with? I've heard $700--wow--but it costs what it costs, I guess.
Use aluminum as original, or stainless? I read where the original aluminum weighs 88-lbs. I have a local welding shop that, if I took them this old tank, could probably duplicate it out of high grade stainless. After seeing the salt damage on this one, I'm wondering if that isn't a better plan than aluminum. Thoughts? I plan on putting a new 200-HP engine on this boat, so a little extra tank weight probably won't be a biggie.
Thanks!
jimh posted 06-17-2014 07:59 AM ET (US)
[Two threads on same topic have been combined. Please use this thread to continue this dicussion.]
contender posted 06-17-2014 10:06 AM ET (US)
Go with alum, Any welder that does alum can weld you up a fuel tank, just make sure its at least .125 thick, Take him your old tank to match it. Purchasing a fuel tank from a vendor you will be killed in the shipping costs, I could give you an address of the guy I use, but then you would have to come to Ft Lauderdale to pick it up. Guys in south fla that replace their fuel tanks before putting them back in have them sprayed with Line X or any other pickup bed coatings for protection. I would use Dri Dec under the tank, fuel does not hurt it, and the water can run under it leaving you tank dry and it will cushion it, The dri dec comes in 1ft. squares, but I have seen other types in a roll form. Then you can just pour your foam around the tank to fill the voids.
elvis posted 06-17-2014 04:51 PM ET (US)
Thanks, Contender! Dri Dec...ok, will look into buying some of that.
How about the foam? Is there a brand name or source to get the right Whaler type? I really prefer to put it back as close to original as possible, unless there is a better (proven) alternative. Is it sprayed in? I'm good at painting cars, but foam like this is new for me.
On tank choices, and after talking with some folks today, I kinda was leaning toward going with Florida marine tank, and getting the original aluminum style...
The boat won't see near the level of salt with me as it has since new and with the police, so it should easily last a long time.
Thanks again for the great advice!
contender posted 06-17-2014 09:29 PM ET (US)
Pourable foam (2 parts mix) comes in three weights 2oz, 4oz, and 8oz,(make sure its close cell foam) The last time I help someone with a tank I think he used 4oz. I have a Fiberglass company down here that is very helpful when it comes to supplies and how to do projects (Fiberglass Coatings) I know there are other stores around the state, maybe there is one near you in one of the bigger cities in Ga.. The two things I can tell you #1 you MUST LAY CARBOARD/PLASTIC DOWN AROUND WHERE YOU ARE GOING TO WORK AND TAPE IT DOWN, THIS STUFF IS THE MESSY, MESSY, MESSY, AND DOES NOT COME OFF EASY, and once you pour it out it starts set up quick.
elvis posted 06-18-2014 05:18 AM ET (US)
Thanks good info. I googled and found one vendor that sells it, and read up on the product. What was really neat was that on the webpage, there was a short ...like 1 minute video showing how to mix and then what the product does to "create" the foam. Wow, very cool. Here's the main link for anyone interested: http://www.fibreglast.com/product/ 2_Lb_Polyurethane_Mix_and_Pour_Foam_24_25/ Foam?gclid=CJz17q-Kg78CFVFp7Aod-BQAWw
elvis posted 06-18-2014 04:41 PM ET (US)
One tank builder gave me a price today of $711 plus $200 more if I wanted ceramic coating.
Shipping was extra.
Anyone know if ceramic coating is worth the extra money?
contender posted 06-18-2014 04:55 PM ET (US)
elvis if you plan to keep the boat and do not want to do another fuel tank then yes I would do it (but I always go overboard on projects), make sure the tank is made out of at least .125 thickness Alum. Like I said I would shop around an aluminum welder and get a price from him for doing a fuel tank. My welder charge me around $250. out the door for a 34 gallon tank with a gauge, fuel fill, fuel pick up, and a full vent.
elvis posted 06-18-2014 04:55 PM ET (US)
I'm Going to go with no ceramic coating, just the bare aluminum tank as Whaler put in it originally...just read an interesting article by Steve D'Antonio, where he discusses the benefits of no paint or coating on aluminum, where he writes, "If you don't mind the appearance, un-painted aluminum offers the greatest corrosion resistance with the least amount of maintenance..."
Here's the full article (I have no affiliation with this writer at all...I just found this via google): http://www.stevedmarineconsulting.com/ezine/index.php?p=16
elvis posted 06-18-2014 04:58 PM ET (US)
Hi Contender...this tank is about 9 feet long, 63 gallons, .125 thick with pickups and all as like the original from Whaler.
$711 is a lot of money...I'm waiting on another quote, too, but I sure don't want any issues later on...so I'm inclined to pay the man....

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Author	Topic: 18 Guardian: Removing, Replacing Fuel Tank
elvis	posted 06-14-2014 04:52 PM ET (US) Hi all, I have a 1987 Guardian 18, and I am ready to remove and replace the 63-gallon under-deck fuel tank, The fuel tank showed corrosion or pitting on top, and, since I'm restoring everything plus new motor, I decided to just put a new one in while it's apart. Everything is out, and I have removed the straps and hoses. Today I took a pointed Disston hand saw and sawed down through all the foam on the sides until the saw touched the inner hull lining. I took a long pinch bar and carefully pried up on the tank front, and it is tight--not moving--and I hate to damage a decent working tank. I sm not sure what to do next. More pressure? Is there a trick? What say the experts out there in Whalerland?
contender	posted 06-14-2014 08:29 PM ET (US) You are removing the old tank and going to replace it, what do you care what damage you do to the old tank?, Its just going to be hard to get out the old tank with all the foam around the tank, the foam makes a real tight bind on the tank, you just have to dig the old foam out more....
Binkster	posted 06-14-2014 10:03 PM ET (US) I'm not claiming to be an expert but I dug a 65 gallon aluminum tank out of a 24 ft. Aquasport years ago. Dig out most of the foam from either the front or the rear, Make sure you get the foam out from under the middle above the keel. Now go and buy an 8' yellow pine 2x4. A normal pine 2x4 stud might break. Wedge the 2x4 under the tank at the keel. Now you have a very big wedge. Now just pry down from the top of the board and the tank will pop right out. It doesn't take much force as your force is increased about at least 8 times. BTW the tank I popped out was not damaged. I filled it with water, rinsed it out a couple of times and then cut off the corroded end with a circular saw, had a new end welded on, and reinstalled that tank. Let us know how it works out. rich
elvis	posted 06-15-2014 05:21 PM ET (US) Thanks, fellas. I like the yellow pine idea and the leverage concept. I'll keep digging out foam too, there is plenty to go around. I would prefer not to damage the tank if possible as it's in working condition now, no leaks, as boat was on patrol in January of this year. I thought I could either sell it, or use it to store fuel as an emergency backup just in case...63 or so gallons is a nice backup, run a generator a long time...just sayin... Hate to ruin it if I can get it out without damaging it. Well, thanks for the good input, and I'll let you how this turns out. Will probably order a new one this week...pretty pricey! Thanks!
elvis	posted 06-16-2014 05:17 AM ET (US) Well, I got it to move a little on the front--like a 1/2" up and down--with the 2x4 on the front. The problem is the gap on the side is an inch or less, the stern gap is like 1-1/2-inches, so the only place to pry it is on the front, where a 2x4 barely will go in the gap. Will be working on it this week, digging out foam. A tough job if I am to not damage the current tank, but that may end up happening, unfortunately. We'll see on that. Thanks!
RMS	posted 06-16-2014 08:46 AM ET (US) Be careful using a pointed saw to dig out foam on the side of the tank. The saw can penetrate the inner hull lining without much effort. When I did this job, I removed the sending unit from the tank and inserted a metal rod connected to a chain. The chain was then fastened to a lumber 4X4 which spanned gunnel to gunnel. I then used a jack to elevate the lumber, which slowly raised the fuel tank out of the fuel tank cavity. The top of the tank was slightly deformed around the sending unit hole by this process, but that was not a concern to me. Bob
elvis	posted 06-16-2014 08:28 PM ET (US) RMS, Binkster, Many thanks for the great advice, finally got it loose tonight...Binkster..your 2x4 idea was the ticket, THANKS! Sent you guys some photos. Once tank was out, heavy heavy white, black, yuk corrosion on it, wow, and some holes corroded through on the bottom,,,sure am glad to get that thing out! Evidently it had been leaking but was sealed good enough not to really notice. Doubt it is anything more than scrap aluminum, never seen corrosion this bad before. Unbelievable.
elvis	posted 06-16-2014 08:41 PM ET (US) Well, got the old original aluminum tank out, 1987 18' Guardian. Quite the job, thanks to some members here who shared their expertise and helped me big time! It was incredibly corroded, with thick white cake actually cementing it to the sides with the foam--no wonder it was so hard to break loose. In addition, once out, I found HOLES in the bottom! I have lots of pics to email for those of you who are interested. The old tank is now scrap, I think. That said, this week I'll be cleaning the hold out and polishing it in preparation for a new tank. Some questions: There was a soft white foam layer attached to the bottom of the tank to cushion it against the hold bottom. I need new [material], gasoline-proof. Where do I get this? I assume I need to be ethanol-proof, too, as most gas has ethanol. What type foam for the sides? And where do I buy it? I want the good stuff like Boston Whaler uses. For a replacement tanks I'm looking at Florida Marine tanks and SP Tanks. Are there any others worth checking with? I've heard $700--wow--but it costs what it costs, I guess. Use aluminum as original, or stainless? I read where the original aluminum weighs 88-lbs. I have a local welding shop that, if I took them this old tank, could probably duplicate it out of high grade stainless. After seeing the salt damage on this one, I'm wondering if that isn't a better plan than aluminum. Thoughts? I plan on putting a new 200-HP engine on this boat, so a little extra tank weight probably won't be a biggie. Thanks!
jimh	posted 06-17-2014 07:59 AM ET (US) [Two threads on same topic have been combined. Please use this thread to continue this dicussion.]
contender	posted 06-17-2014 10:06 AM ET (US) Go with alum, Any welder that does alum can weld you up a fuel tank, just make sure its at least .125 thick, Take him your old tank to match it. Purchasing a fuel tank from a vendor you will be killed in the shipping costs, I could give you an address of the guy I use, but then you would have to come to Ft Lauderdale to pick it up. Guys in south fla that replace their fuel tanks before putting them back in have them sprayed with Line X or any other pickup bed coatings for protection. I would use Dri Dec under the tank, fuel does not hurt it, and the water can run under it leaving you tank dry and it will cushion it, The dri dec comes in 1ft. squares, but I have seen other types in a roll form. Then you can just pour your foam around the tank to fill the voids.
elvis	posted 06-17-2014 04:51 PM ET (US) Thanks, Contender! Dri Dec...ok, will look into buying some of that. How about the foam? Is there a brand name or source to get the right Whaler type? I really prefer to put it back as close to original as possible, unless there is a better (proven) alternative. Is it sprayed in? I'm good at painting cars, but foam like this is new for me. On tank choices, and after talking with some folks today, I kinda was leaning toward going with Florida marine tank, and getting the original aluminum style... The boat won't see near the level of salt with me as it has since new and with the police, so it should easily last a long time. Thanks again for the great advice!
contender	posted 06-17-2014 09:29 PM ET (US) Pourable foam (2 parts mix) comes in three weights 2oz, 4oz, and 8oz,(make sure its close cell foam) The last time I help someone with a tank I think he used 4oz. I have a Fiberglass company down here that is very helpful when it comes to supplies and how to do projects (Fiberglass Coatings) I know there are other stores around the state, maybe there is one near you in one of the bigger cities in Ga.. The two things I can tell you #1 you MUST LAY CARBOARD/PLASTIC DOWN AROUND WHERE YOU ARE GOING TO WORK AND TAPE IT DOWN, THIS STUFF IS THE MESSY, MESSY, MESSY, AND DOES NOT COME OFF EASY, and once you pour it out it starts set up quick.
elvis	posted 06-18-2014 05:18 AM ET (US) Thanks good info. I googled and found one vendor that sells it, and read up on the product. What was really neat was that on the webpage, there was a short ...like 1 minute video showing how to mix and then what the product does to "create" the foam. Wow, very cool. Here's the main link for anyone interested: http://www.fibreglast.com/product/ 2_Lb_Polyurethane_Mix_and_Pour_Foam_24_25/ Foam?gclid=CJz17q-Kg78CFVFp7Aod-BQAWw
elvis	posted 06-18-2014 04:41 PM ET (US) One tank builder gave me a price today of $711 plus $200 more if I wanted ceramic coating. Shipping was extra. Anyone know if ceramic coating is worth the extra money?
contender	posted 06-18-2014 04:55 PM ET (US) elvis if you plan to keep the boat and do not want to do another fuel tank then yes I would do it (but I always go overboard on projects), make sure the tank is made out of at least .125 thickness Alum. Like I said I would shop around an aluminum welder and get a price from him for doing a fuel tank. My welder charge me around $250. out the door for a 34 gallon tank with a gauge, fuel fill, fuel pick up, and a full vent.
elvis	posted 06-18-2014 04:55 PM ET (US) I'm Going to go with no ceramic coating, just the bare aluminum tank as Whaler put in it originally...just read an interesting article by Steve D'Antonio, where he discusses the benefits of no paint or coating on aluminum, where he writes, "If you don't mind the appearance, un-painted aluminum offers the greatest corrosion resistance with the least amount of maintenance..." Here's the full article (I have no affiliation with this writer at all...I just found this via google): http://www.stevedmarineconsulting.com/ezine/index.php?p=16
elvis	posted 06-18-2014 04:58 PM ET (US) Hi Contender...this tank is about 9 feet long, 63 gallons, .125 thick with pickups and all as like the original from Whaler. $711 is a lot of money...I'm waiting on another quote, too, but I sure don't want any issues later on...so I'm inclined to pay the man....