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Author Topic:   Steering Wheel Removal

jason78 posted 07-12-2014 11:19 AM ET (US)
OK, now I need to investigate a subtle but annoying intermittent squeak in the helm that sometimes occurs when turning the wheel. I think I will need to remove the steering wheel to investigate what is rubbing and may need some grease.
Can anyone give me some guidance on how to remove the wheel? I have the Stainless Boston Whaler 5-Spoke with the BW Center Cap. Do I just pop off the center cap and remove a nut?
Is there anything under here that should be greased or am I now looking at a potential problem with the Sea Star helm?
Thanks!
Jason
TTB posted 07-12-2014 12:02 PM ET (US)
In theory yes, but even when the nut is off it is going to be a bugger to get the wheel off the tapered shaft. Do yourself a favor and buy an el-cheapo gear puller. It will make the wheel pop right off. No swearing required.
TJ
jimh posted 07-12-2014 02:53 PM ET (US)
I give advice in
http://continuouswave.com/whaler/reference/teleflexSeal.html
contender posted 07-12-2014 05:24 PM ET (US)
Some steering wheels may have a set screw holding the center cap in place, look before you pry. Also I would give the nut a little squirt with some pentrating oil. Once you have the puller in place (unscrew the nut and leave it at the top of the threads so not to harm them) use a hammer to tap the end of the screw (puller screw) that is in contact with the steering center, should pop off
sosmerc posted 07-12-2014 10:16 PM ET (US)
The problem is not the wheel. Just spray a generous amount of fluid film down the shaft that the wheel is attached to. The objective is to get some lubrication down the shaft onto the bushings and joints (if you have a tilt helm). Yes, down the road you may have to remove the wheel, but at this point I would try my idea of getting fluid film down the tapered shaft and around the joints in the helm.
jason78 posted 07-13-2014 07:58 PM ET (US)
Thanks for all the help! I decided to try and pull the wheel so I could have a look and try to grease the shaft. Tried 2 different pullers and neither worked. Going to try and find something smaller tomorrow. The jaws would not fit between the back of the wheel and the plastic cowling that covers the tilt helm.
Another thing I have noticed is there is some play in the shaft. As in you can wiggle it just a little. Is this normal or should it be solid?
Thanks
Jason
jason78 posted 07-13-2014 08:00 PM ET (US)
Also,the rubber seal that sits behind the center cap is worn. Is there a source for a replacement seal and center cap?
jimh posted 07-13-2014 08:41 PM ET (US)
There should be no play between the wheel and the helm steering wheel shaft.
What type of SeaStar helm do you have?
If you need help with replacing the front shaft seal on a hydraulic helm pump, just read a little further in the article I mentioned to you previously.
jason78 posted 07-13-2014 10:42 PM ET (US)
There is no play between the wheel and the shaft but the shaft does have a little play in it. I have a Sea Star 1.7 Traditional Tilt Helm. It looks like there is a yoke type connection between the end of the wheel shaft and the shaft that actually goes in to the pump. The helm is not leaking so I don't think it is a seal issue. If this is truly an issue it must have something to do with the Helm Shaft/Tilt Mechanism Coupling. Not sure, maybe I need to call Sea Star.
jason78 posted 07-28-2014 09:59 AM ET (US)
OK, so I have run in to all kinds of problem pulling the steering wheel. Amazing because this boat has never even been stored around salt.
I have used every method I have seen posted anywhere. PB Blaster, Tapping with a hammer, using a gear puller, using a torch to heat and nothing. Wont budge. At this point I think my only option is to get a sawzall and cut the steering wheel off the shaft right behind the wheel and then try to get the remaining piece of shaft out of the wheel. I am replacing the entire Sea Star tilt helm mechanism (including shaft) so cutting the shaft is not a problem for me in this situation.
In case I cannot do this, I am looking at replacement steering wheels. I have the Original 5 Spoke Destroyer wheel. I have a 97 Whaler so I believe it is a Schmitt Wheel. There are several size and dish options. Does anyone know what they originally used?
Thanks!
jason78 posted 07-29-2014 09:41 PM ET (US)
Well, I ended up having to cut the steering shaft behind the wheel with a sawzall. Even after I have the wheel blocked up on the ground I was not able to beat the remaining shaft piece out of the center of the wheel. So it looks like I will be purchasing a new steering wheel now from Schmitt. They still make the 5 Spoke "Destroyer" model that was used on my boat new. Schmitt p/n #1721521. Boston Whaler told me this wheel has a 25 degree dish however Schmitt told me this wheel is and always has been a 22 degree dish and confirmed it is the one they still supply to BW to this day.
This wheel is available with finger grip and an integrated knob optional. I think I will keep my Edson knob but trying to decide on whether to get the finger grip model or go with the original smooth.
All I know is that the squeak int he steering has cost me nearly $350 now and a heck of a lot of frustration.
gpj posted 08-03-2014 04:39 PM ET (US)
Jason - All advice on ContinuousWave is not created equal, as I am sure you have realized. Using a puller on the five spoke wheel is not a good idea. This method tends to (i) break the welds that connect the spokes to the hub, (ii) leave marks on the outer cosmetic hub, and (iii) warp the wheel. The hammer/nut method can strip your threads. I have never tried a torch!
In my experience, the best approach is to disassemble and remove the helm. With the Teleflex Big-T steering system, this involves unbolting the shaft bearing assembly from the gearbox. The bezel, shaft, and shaft bearing assembly then comes out as a unit through the hole in your console. With a little careful fixturing, you can then use a cheap Harbor Freight hydraulic press to press the shaft out of the hub with NO (additional) damage to the wheel. When I got it out, I realized that a previous owner had cracked the welds on four of the five spokes and had defaced the cosmetic hub. Fortunately, I can repair the damage.
I know this advice is a day late and a dollar short for you, but caulk it up to experience and an understanding that NOTHING is ever simple on these boats!
PS - Use some anti-seize on the hub when you reassemble it. Also, the nut does not need a HUGE amount of torque in order for the wheel to function.
jimh posted 08-04-2014 02:22 AM ET (US)
If you have to disassemble the helm, remove the shaft, and put the steering wheel in a hydraulic press, you have a very unusual situation. It might be simpler to just cut off the frozen steering wheel and get a new one. The advice to disassemble the helm and use a hydraulic press might apply in about one in one hundred instances. Most of the time time the advice to use a gear puller, to tap with a hammer, or to use a little heat will suffice. I would only undertake this radical step of disassembling the helm as a last resort. The report of this method is the first I have ever heard of such an approach.
jimh posted 08-04-2014 09:49 AM ET (US)
Re the Schmitt stainless steel Destroyer type steering wheels that were original equipment on Boston Whaler boats: most that I have seen were six-spoke wheels. I had one on a 1987 Boston Whaler I bought used. The wheel was loose due to the spokes being loose in their connection to the center hub. I think this occurs because in rough seas the helmsman is hanging on to the wheel for support, and the wheel is subject to a lot of loading or force on its rim.
The Schmitt wheels use an oval tube to make the outer wheel ring. This gives a nice feel to gripping the wheel.
I have removed a steering wheel from the tapered shaft of a helm several times, and in each of those times the wheel came off with just a small amount of pressure applied with a gear puller.
The situation you encountered in which the steering wheel hub and the tapered shaft where more or less inseparable with reasonable force seems to me to be outside of the usual experience of most with these components.
jason78 posted 08-04-2014 10:21 PM ET (US)
Thanks for all the additional input. I thought my project had lost interest. :)
Anyway, I got the new Schmitt 5 spoke Destroyer installed (with marine grease on the shaft). I must say it now steers like a dream. The HA6523 seems to work great. I was able to get the wheel from West marine for about $70 with discounts so not as bad as I thought. It came with a chrome center cap so now I just need to get another BW Center cap.
In the end, I have determined there is no way I was going to be able to remove that wheel from the shaft without destroying the helm in the process. I am a little worried that I may have damaged the pump with all the beating, pulling and heating on the steering shaft but it seems to be OK for now. A Steering wheel is cheaper than a pump so my recommendation is if you cant get it off reasonably easy, just cut it off and be done with it. In my case of course I was replacing the Tilt Mechanism anyway so did not care about the shaft.
For the record, I used a Lenox Armor Extreme Metal 14TPI Blade from Lowes. p/n 9114AR. I was able to get through the 3/4" 306 Stainless Steel Steering Shaft in about a minute with one blade. Of course I taped paper everywhere to avoid hot metal on the gelcoat and used safety glasses.
Now I just have to figure out where to mount the knob. The location I randomly picked does not seem to be a good one when heading straight. Maybe there is no "good spot" for it?

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Author	Topic: Steering Wheel Removal
jason78	posted 07-12-2014 11:19 AM ET (US) OK, now I need to investigate a subtle but annoying intermittent squeak in the helm that sometimes occurs when turning the wheel. I think I will need to remove the steering wheel to investigate what is rubbing and may need some grease. Can anyone give me some guidance on how to remove the wheel? I have the Stainless Boston Whaler 5-Spoke with the BW Center Cap. Do I just pop off the center cap and remove a nut? Is there anything under here that should be greased or am I now looking at a potential problem with the Sea Star helm? Thanks! Jason
TTB	posted 07-12-2014 12:02 PM ET (US) In theory yes, but even when the nut is off it is going to be a bugger to get the wheel off the tapered shaft. Do yourself a favor and buy an el-cheapo gear puller. It will make the wheel pop right off. No swearing required. TJ
jimh	posted 07-12-2014 02:53 PM ET (US) I give advice in http://continuouswave.com/whaler/reference/teleflexSeal.html
contender	posted 07-12-2014 05:24 PM ET (US) Some steering wheels may have a set screw holding the center cap in place, look before you pry. Also I would give the nut a little squirt with some pentrating oil. Once you have the puller in place (unscrew the nut and leave it at the top of the threads so not to harm them) use a hammer to tap the end of the screw (puller screw) that is in contact with the steering center, should pop off
sosmerc	posted 07-12-2014 10:16 PM ET (US) The problem is not the wheel. Just spray a generous amount of fluid film down the shaft that the wheel is attached to. The objective is to get some lubrication down the shaft onto the bushings and joints (if you have a tilt helm). Yes, down the road you may have to remove the wheel, but at this point I would try my idea of getting fluid film down the tapered shaft and around the joints in the helm.
jason78	posted 07-13-2014 07:58 PM ET (US) Thanks for all the help! I decided to try and pull the wheel so I could have a look and try to grease the shaft. Tried 2 different pullers and neither worked. Going to try and find something smaller tomorrow. The jaws would not fit between the back of the wheel and the plastic cowling that covers the tilt helm. Another thing I have noticed is there is some play in the shaft. As in you can wiggle it just a little. Is this normal or should it be solid? Thanks Jason
jason78	posted 07-13-2014 08:00 PM ET (US) Also,the rubber seal that sits behind the center cap is worn. Is there a source for a replacement seal and center cap?
jimh	posted 07-13-2014 08:41 PM ET (US) There should be no play between the wheel and the helm steering wheel shaft. What type of SeaStar helm do you have? If you need help with replacing the front shaft seal on a hydraulic helm pump, just read a little further in the article I mentioned to you previously.
jason78	posted 07-13-2014 10:42 PM ET (US) There is no play between the wheel and the shaft but the shaft does have a little play in it. I have a Sea Star 1.7 Traditional Tilt Helm. It looks like there is a yoke type connection between the end of the wheel shaft and the shaft that actually goes in to the pump. The helm is not leaking so I don't think it is a seal issue. If this is truly an issue it must have something to do with the Helm Shaft/Tilt Mechanism Coupling. Not sure, maybe I need to call Sea Star.
jason78	posted 07-28-2014 09:59 AM ET (US) OK, so I have run in to all kinds of problem pulling the steering wheel. Amazing because this boat has never even been stored around salt. I have used every method I have seen posted anywhere. PB Blaster, Tapping with a hammer, using a gear puller, using a torch to heat and nothing. Wont budge. At this point I think my only option is to get a sawzall and cut the steering wheel off the shaft right behind the wheel and then try to get the remaining piece of shaft out of the wheel. I am replacing the entire Sea Star tilt helm mechanism (including shaft) so cutting the shaft is not a problem for me in this situation. In case I cannot do this, I am looking at replacement steering wheels. I have the Original 5 Spoke Destroyer wheel. I have a 97 Whaler so I believe it is a Schmitt Wheel. There are several size and dish options. Does anyone know what they originally used? Thanks!
jason78	posted 07-29-2014 09:41 PM ET (US) Well, I ended up having to cut the steering shaft behind the wheel with a sawzall. Even after I have the wheel blocked up on the ground I was not able to beat the remaining shaft piece out of the center of the wheel. So it looks like I will be purchasing a new steering wheel now from Schmitt. They still make the 5 Spoke "Destroyer" model that was used on my boat new. Schmitt p/n #1721521. Boston Whaler told me this wheel has a 25 degree dish however Schmitt told me this wheel is and always has been a 22 degree dish and confirmed it is the one they still supply to BW to this day. This wheel is available with finger grip and an integrated knob optional. I think I will keep my Edson knob but trying to decide on whether to get the finger grip model or go with the original smooth. All I know is that the squeak int he steering has cost me nearly $350 now and a heck of a lot of frustration.
gpj	posted 08-03-2014 04:39 PM ET (US) Jason - All advice on ContinuousWave is not created equal, as I am sure you have realized. Using a puller on the five spoke wheel is not a good idea. This method tends to (i) break the welds that connect the spokes to the hub, (ii) leave marks on the outer cosmetic hub, and (iii) warp the wheel. The hammer/nut method can strip your threads. I have never tried a torch! In my experience, the best approach is to disassemble and remove the helm. With the Teleflex Big-T steering system, this involves unbolting the shaft bearing assembly from the gearbox. The bezel, shaft, and shaft bearing assembly then comes out as a unit through the hole in your console. With a little careful fixturing, you can then use a cheap Harbor Freight hydraulic press to press the shaft out of the hub with NO (additional) damage to the wheel. When I got it out, I realized that a previous owner had cracked the welds on four of the five spokes and had defaced the cosmetic hub. Fortunately, I can repair the damage. I know this advice is a day late and a dollar short for you, but caulk it up to experience and an understanding that NOTHING is ever simple on these boats! PS - Use some anti-seize on the hub when you reassemble it. Also, the nut does not need a HUGE amount of torque in order for the wheel to function.
jimh	posted 08-04-2014 02:22 AM ET (US) If you have to disassemble the helm, remove the shaft, and put the steering wheel in a hydraulic press, you have a very unusual situation. It might be simpler to just cut off the frozen steering wheel and get a new one. The advice to disassemble the helm and use a hydraulic press might apply in about one in one hundred instances. Most of the time time the advice to use a gear puller, to tap with a hammer, or to use a little heat will suffice. I would only undertake this radical step of disassembling the helm as a last resort. The report of this method is the first I have ever heard of such an approach.
jimh	posted 08-04-2014 09:49 AM ET (US) Re the Schmitt stainless steel Destroyer type steering wheels that were original equipment on Boston Whaler boats: most that I have seen were six-spoke wheels. I had one on a 1987 Boston Whaler I bought used. The wheel was loose due to the spokes being loose in their connection to the center hub. I think this occurs because in rough seas the helmsman is hanging on to the wheel for support, and the wheel is subject to a lot of loading or force on its rim. The Schmitt wheels use an oval tube to make the outer wheel ring. This gives a nice feel to gripping the wheel. I have removed a steering wheel from the tapered shaft of a helm several times, and in each of those times the wheel came off with just a small amount of pressure applied with a gear puller. The situation you encountered in which the steering wheel hub and the tapered shaft where more or less inseparable with reasonable force seems to me to be outside of the usual experience of most with these components.
jason78	posted 08-04-2014 10:21 PM ET (US) Thanks for all the additional input. I thought my project had lost interest. :) Anyway, I got the new Schmitt 5 spoke Destroyer installed (with marine grease on the shaft). I must say it now steers like a dream. The HA6523 seems to work great. I was able to get the wheel from West marine for about $70 with discounts so not as bad as I thought. It came with a chrome center cap so now I just need to get another BW Center cap. In the end, I have determined there is no way I was going to be able to remove that wheel from the shaft without destroying the helm in the process. I am a little worried that I may have damaged the pump with all the beating, pulling and heating on the steering shaft but it seems to be OK for now. A Steering wheel is cheaper than a pump so my recommendation is if you cant get it off reasonably easy, just cut it off and be done with it. In my case of course I was replacing the Tilt Mechanism anyway so did not care about the shaft. For the record, I used a Lenox Armor Extreme Metal 14TPI Blade from Lowes. p/n 9114AR. I was able to get through the 3/4" 306 Stainless Steel Steering Shaft in about a minute with one blade. Of course I taped paper everywhere to avoid hot metal on the gelcoat and used safety glasses. Now I just have to figure out where to mount the knob. The location I randomly picked does not seem to be a good one when heading straight. Maybe there is no "good spot" for it?