1999 17' Outrage: Replacing Thru-hull Fittings

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Author Topic:   1999 17' Outrage: Replacing Thru-hull Fittings

DaveS posted 07-16-2014 03:57 PM ET (US)
I'm in the process of replacing the thru hull fittings for my 1999 Boston Whaler 17 Outrage. There are two different sizes. The ones in the transom look to be 1-inch while the ones in the gunnels are 1-11/32-inch, according to the parts list.
I have several brass thru-hull fittings from my old 1991 17' Outrage; would these work in my current Outrage? I'm guessing yes, but I don't want to start something without knowing I have the right parts. My Outrage has the plastic fittings and I'd feel much more comfortable with brass. I was hoping to be able to just use the brass ones.
The fittings in the side with scuppers, I've only seen them in plastic. I have seen some similar in stainless but only one side looks appropriate, the other looks like a fitting for a hose.
Has anyone used something different?
Thanks for the help!
DaveS
picflight posted 07-16-2014 05:19 PM ET (US)
This is what I have on my 1998 Outrage 17, I am also considering the change mainly for cosmetic reasons but certainly not a priority.
Would like to see how it is done, share procedure and pictures.
Transom
https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3908/14691960653_8aff4c7c4d_b.jpg
Side Scupper
https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5595/14671750522_ba1e4ef7a3_b.jpg
jimh posted 07-17-2014 10:34 AM ET (US)
As long as the dimensions are the same, I don't see any reason why a fitting made of metal couldn't be used to replace a fitting made of nylon or plastic, with the possible exception of consideration for galvanic corrosion to affect the metal fittings. You might need to create a bonding circuit to bond the new metal fittings together in order to reduce galvanic corrosion.
Generally through-hull fittings of metal are made of bronze or other suitable marine metal alloys. They typically cost significantly more than nylon or plastic fittings. If using marine bronze fittings makes you feel more comfortable, and you can find appropriate fittings, I don't see any drawback to changing the fittings to bronze from plastic.
ALAN G posted 07-17-2014 02:37 PM ET (US)
Jim et all: Be careful here. Brass is an alloy of copper and zinc. Bronze is an alloy of copper and tin. Brass is not a good choice for salt water use as it galvanically corrodes (commonly called dezincification as the zinc is galvanically removed in sea water from the copper, leaving behind a dark red porous piece of largely copper which is worthless). Bronze is excellent for salt water use.
If the plastic through hulls are intact and sealed, you might want to leave them in place because there is no galvanic corrosion with plastic. If you replace with brass tubes and are in fresh water, you are probably OK, but have not really improved things...same for a trailered boat that is washed/rinsed after use. If you are immersed/docked in salt water and can find bronze thru hulls, these would be the replacement choice.
There are many Whaler owners who have replaced their failed brass tubes with PVC or other plastic. Most tubes I have seen advertised/sold are brass not bronze. Just be aware.
Al
jimh posted 07-18-2014 08:35 AM ET (US)
I am well aware that brass is of no value in a thru-hull fitting, which is why I never mentioned the word "brass" in my reply.
ALAN G posted 07-18-2014 08:44 PM ET (US)
True Jim, you did not sin. DaveS mentioned brass in his initial post. I am now on a quest to see if I can find tubing made of bronze, copper-nickel, or monel. Will advise if I find anything interesting. I am not looking for a stainless option because stainless suffers from crevice corrosion, and a poorly sealed drain tube would form the perfect crevice for pitting to occur between the tube and hull.
Al
jimh posted 07-18-2014 10:38 PM ET (US)
I should clarify: my reference to bronze through-hull fitting was intended for those fittings with threaded pipes that are used on larger boats.
As for brass through hull drains, they seem to be quite workable on the Boston Whaler boats. I have four drains on my Boston Whaler that are made of brass. They are originals to the boat, c.1990. The limited amount of time my boat actually spends in the water may account for the long life of the brass drains. It is only in the water about four weeks per year, and then only in rather cold fresh water. I suspect that continual immersion in tropical saltwater would probably have greater effect on the life of those brass drains.
ALAN G posted 07-19-2014 12:36 PM ET (US)
Bought my 1975 Revenge 19 new in Hawaii. In five years of use in salt water, the drain tube was perforated with corrosion. This is the tube that is the lowest in the boat, draining the aft fish box through the transom. I suspect the tube was never properly installed with sealant and the rubber O-rings that were supposed to seal the tube deteriorated after 5 years in the sun and salt. I replaced that tube with brass, but heavily slathered it with 3M5200. Also, instead of trying to crimp the O-rings, I put a bead of 5200 around both ends to form O-ring type seals. No issues 34 years later.
I have had no issues with the original brass transom drains on both sides of the splash well, although I have also sealed them with 3M5200. I think they have survived because they are above the waterline while afloat and not constantly immersed in salt water.
The other tube that gave me problems was the tube from the sump inside the boat. Again, the rubber O-rings failed. Tell tale sign was green (copper) traces from salt water leaking out alongside the tube when the boat was hauled onto the trailer. I drilled a couple holes forward and aft along the keel to allow water to drain out if any got into the foam, but found that except for an inch away from the drain tube, the hull foam was dry. I let the boat dry over a winter...perhaps a half a cup or less water actually drained. When dry, I sealed both ends with good old 5200 again, and no problems since.
I probably have owned my boat much longer than most other Whaler owners (but I am sure I am not unique, nor am I a contender for the record). That is an interesting question: Who holds the record for owning a Whaler the longest?
Al
DaveS posted 07-22-2014 10:09 AM ET (US)
Thanks for the replies. I think I confused my metals in my original post. It was bronze tubes I had from my 1991 17' Outrage.
I called Sue from Twin Cities, turns out she has the same Outrage as me! She's great to work with and very knowledgeable. After talking with her, I decided to go with the OEM thru hulls from Whaler. Once I pull one of the transom thru hulls, I'm going check to see if my bronze tubes would work. If it does, I'll use the bronze, if not, the OEM goes in.
Does anyone have any tricks of the trade removing these plastic tubes? I want to make this as easy of a job as possible without causing any damage to my boat! :)
Thanks again and have a wonderful day!
Dave
picflight posted 07-22-2014 11:10 AM ET (US)
Dave,
Post pictures as you progress through the removal and installation.
DaveS posted 07-22-2014 04:25 PM ET (US)
Will do...looks to be a pretty easy job but I'm not a lucky guy! If for some reason, if something strange would happen to someone, it would be me!
I ordered the replacement parts yesterday from Sue, who was processing the order through Whaler, so I'm guessing it'll get them sometime next week.
Have a good one!
DaveS posted 08-18-2014 12:21 AM ET (US)
I was finally able to have a few minutes to work on my boat this weekend and thought I'd post an update. I decided to pull the two thru hulls that were in the worst shape and leave the rest for a winter/spring project.
The first was the starboard side scupper because one of the flanges was damaged. I used a dremel tool to remove the remainder of the flange and then used another piece of PVC to drive out the remaining material. Turns out my suspicions were correct, there was some water in there. I'm going to allow it to dry a while and then install the replacement scupper. I'm going to use 3M 4200 as a sealant.
The second thru hull is the one in the anchor locker. Turns out it doesn't look like it was never really sealed properly, it also looks like the angle is off slightly while there was no clam shell in front of it like my other whalers. I'm going to install one as part of this job. To remove the fitting, the dremel didn't work. It seemed the plastic was melting and it started to overhead my poor dremel tool! When I stopped that poor guy was smoking! :) I decided to try to drive a small screwdriver between the gelcoat and the fitting and it was remarkably easy to remove. There was a little bit of water but not much. It's dry now.
So far I haven't really run into any snags. I did go to the hardware store and get a few items to make my own "clamps" which should make it easier to do the job by myself if my kids aren't around. They are made of lag bolts, a wing nut and some oversized washers.
I'll post more when I do more but I hope this helps.
Dave
labtoy posted 09-09-2014 08:07 PM ET (US)
Dave,
I also would like to replace my side scuppers . What is Sue charging for those. How are they connected thru the hull, are they threaded or just epoxied, together. I have no experience removing or installing these, but l better learn because l know mine are leaking. Thanks for any reply.
Dave P.
DaveS posted 09-16-2014 12:19 AM ET (US)
It wasn't really difficult to remove the scuppers from the side of the boat. I used a dremmel tool to remove the flange. (Mine was broken, thus the need for the replacement.)
Once the flange was removed I used a piece of pvc tubing about the same diameter of the plastic remaining in the hull, I used a small block of wood and hammer to gently drive out the fitting. I cleaned up the area, then sealed the inside with 3M 4200. I then put a nice bead of 4200 on the interiors of both new flanges...fit and positioned the outside piece first, then holding that piece in with my knee...I inserted the other side...pressed firmly to squeeze out the excess 4200 and cleaned the area up.
Didn't take long at all.
I think Sue charged me about $50 per scupper.
Let me know if you have any other questions.
Dave
labtoy posted 09-18-2014 08:19 PM ET (US)
Thanks for your reply, Dave, l ended up removing all 8 of my thru hull drains, cleaned them up and reinstalled with 4200. All were in good condition so l just cleaned them up. It's an easy job, l have a machine shop so l just made a couple knockout tools out of pvc bar and tapped them out from the inside of the boat. I bought a 17 justice last winter and have been refurbishing it since.
Just water tested it a couple weeks ago and water was getting into the bilge compartment, so l figured it was from a thru hull but it turned out to be a broken water line from the motor going into the gage in the console. Send me an email if you would like to talk about our boats.
dbpierce30@aol.com

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Author	Topic: 1999 17' Outrage: Replacing Thru-hull Fittings
DaveS	posted 07-16-2014 03:57 PM ET (US) I'm in the process of replacing the thru hull fittings for my 1999 Boston Whaler 17 Outrage. There are two different sizes. The ones in the transom look to be 1-inch while the ones in the gunnels are 1-11/32-inch, according to the parts list. I have several brass thru-hull fittings from my old 1991 17' Outrage; would these work in my current Outrage? I'm guessing yes, but I don't want to start something without knowing I have the right parts. My Outrage has the plastic fittings and I'd feel much more comfortable with brass. I was hoping to be able to just use the brass ones. The fittings in the side with scuppers, I've only seen them in plastic. I have seen some similar in stainless but only one side looks appropriate, the other looks like a fitting for a hose. Has anyone used something different? Thanks for the help! DaveS
picflight	posted 07-16-2014 05:19 PM ET (US) This is what I have on my 1998 Outrage 17, I am also considering the change mainly for cosmetic reasons but certainly not a priority. Would like to see how it is done, share procedure and pictures. Transom https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3908/14691960653_8aff4c7c4d_b.jpg Side Scupper https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5595/14671750522_ba1e4ef7a3_b.jpg
jimh	posted 07-17-2014 10:34 AM ET (US) As long as the dimensions are the same, I don't see any reason why a fitting made of metal couldn't be used to replace a fitting made of nylon or plastic, with the possible exception of consideration for galvanic corrosion to affect the metal fittings. You might need to create a bonding circuit to bond the new metal fittings together in order to reduce galvanic corrosion. Generally through-hull fittings of metal are made of bronze or other suitable marine metal alloys. They typically cost significantly more than nylon or plastic fittings. If using marine bronze fittings makes you feel more comfortable, and you can find appropriate fittings, I don't see any drawback to changing the fittings to bronze from plastic.
ALAN G	posted 07-17-2014 02:37 PM ET (US) Jim et all: Be careful here. Brass is an alloy of copper and zinc. Bronze is an alloy of copper and tin. Brass is not a good choice for salt water use as it galvanically corrodes (commonly called dezincification as the zinc is galvanically removed in sea water from the copper, leaving behind a dark red porous piece of largely copper which is worthless). Bronze is excellent for salt water use. If the plastic through hulls are intact and sealed, you might want to leave them in place because there is no galvanic corrosion with plastic. If you replace with brass tubes and are in fresh water, you are probably OK, but have not really improved things...same for a trailered boat that is washed/rinsed after use. If you are immersed/docked in salt water and can find bronze thru hulls, these would be the replacement choice. There are many Whaler owners who have replaced their failed brass tubes with PVC or other plastic. Most tubes I have seen advertised/sold are brass not bronze. Just be aware. Al
jimh	posted 07-18-2014 08:35 AM ET (US) I am well aware that brass is of no value in a thru-hull fitting, which is why I never mentioned the word "brass" in my reply.
ALAN G	posted 07-18-2014 08:44 PM ET (US) True Jim, you did not sin. DaveS mentioned brass in his initial post. I am now on a quest to see if I can find tubing made of bronze, copper-nickel, or monel. Will advise if I find anything interesting. I am not looking for a stainless option because stainless suffers from crevice corrosion, and a poorly sealed drain tube would form the perfect crevice for pitting to occur between the tube and hull. Al
jimh	posted 07-18-2014 10:38 PM ET (US) I should clarify: my reference to bronze through-hull fitting was intended for those fittings with threaded pipes that are used on larger boats. As for brass through hull drains, they seem to be quite workable on the Boston Whaler boats. I have four drains on my Boston Whaler that are made of brass. They are originals to the boat, c.1990. The limited amount of time my boat actually spends in the water may account for the long life of the brass drains. It is only in the water about four weeks per year, and then only in rather cold fresh water. I suspect that continual immersion in tropical saltwater would probably have greater effect on the life of those brass drains.
ALAN G	posted 07-19-2014 12:36 PM ET (US) Bought my 1975 Revenge 19 new in Hawaii. In five years of use in salt water, the drain tube was perforated with corrosion. This is the tube that is the lowest in the boat, draining the aft fish box through the transom. I suspect the tube was never properly installed with sealant and the rubber O-rings that were supposed to seal the tube deteriorated after 5 years in the sun and salt. I replaced that tube with brass, but heavily slathered it with 3M5200. Also, instead of trying to crimp the O-rings, I put a bead of 5200 around both ends to form O-ring type seals. No issues 34 years later. I have had no issues with the original brass transom drains on both sides of the splash well, although I have also sealed them with 3M5200. I think they have survived because they are above the waterline while afloat and not constantly immersed in salt water. The other tube that gave me problems was the tube from the sump inside the boat. Again, the rubber O-rings failed. Tell tale sign was green (copper) traces from salt water leaking out alongside the tube when the boat was hauled onto the trailer. I drilled a couple holes forward and aft along the keel to allow water to drain out if any got into the foam, but found that except for an inch away from the drain tube, the hull foam was dry. I let the boat dry over a winter...perhaps a half a cup or less water actually drained. When dry, I sealed both ends with good old 5200 again, and no problems since. I probably have owned my boat much longer than most other Whaler owners (but I am sure I am not unique, nor am I a contender for the record). That is an interesting question: Who holds the record for owning a Whaler the longest? Al
DaveS	posted 07-22-2014 10:09 AM ET (US) Thanks for the replies. I think I confused my metals in my original post. It was bronze tubes I had from my 1991 17' Outrage. I called Sue from Twin Cities, turns out she has the same Outrage as me! She's great to work with and very knowledgeable. After talking with her, I decided to go with the OEM thru hulls from Whaler. Once I pull one of the transom thru hulls, I'm going check to see if my bronze tubes would work. If it does, I'll use the bronze, if not, the OEM goes in. Does anyone have any tricks of the trade removing these plastic tubes? I want to make this as easy of a job as possible without causing any damage to my boat! :) Thanks again and have a wonderful day! Dave
picflight	posted 07-22-2014 11:10 AM ET (US) Dave, Post pictures as you progress through the removal and installation.
DaveS	posted 07-22-2014 04:25 PM ET (US) Will do...looks to be a pretty easy job but I'm not a lucky guy! If for some reason, if something strange would happen to someone, it would be me! I ordered the replacement parts yesterday from Sue, who was processing the order through Whaler, so I'm guessing it'll get them sometime next week. Have a good one!
DaveS	posted 08-18-2014 12:21 AM ET (US) I was finally able to have a few minutes to work on my boat this weekend and thought I'd post an update. I decided to pull the two thru hulls that were in the worst shape and leave the rest for a winter/spring project. The first was the starboard side scupper because one of the flanges was damaged. I used a dremel tool to remove the remainder of the flange and then used another piece of PVC to drive out the remaining material. Turns out my suspicions were correct, there was some water in there. I'm going to allow it to dry a while and then install the replacement scupper. I'm going to use 3M 4200 as a sealant. The second thru hull is the one in the anchor locker. Turns out it doesn't look like it was never really sealed properly, it also looks like the angle is off slightly while there was no clam shell in front of it like my other whalers. I'm going to install one as part of this job. To remove the fitting, the dremel didn't work. It seemed the plastic was melting and it started to overhead my poor dremel tool! When I stopped that poor guy was smoking! :) I decided to try to drive a small screwdriver between the gelcoat and the fitting and it was remarkably easy to remove. There was a little bit of water but not much. It's dry now. So far I haven't really run into any snags. I did go to the hardware store and get a few items to make my own "clamps" which should make it easier to do the job by myself if my kids aren't around. They are made of lag bolts, a wing nut and some oversized washers. I'll post more when I do more but I hope this helps. Dave
labtoy	posted 09-09-2014 08:07 PM ET (US) Dave, I also would like to replace my side scuppers . What is Sue charging for those. How are they connected thru the hull, are they threaded or just epoxied, together. I have no experience removing or installing these, but l better learn because l know mine are leaking. Thanks for any reply. Dave P.
DaveS	posted 09-16-2014 12:19 AM ET (US) It wasn't really difficult to remove the scuppers from the side of the boat. I used a dremmel tool to remove the flange. (Mine was broken, thus the need for the replacement.) Once the flange was removed I used a piece of pvc tubing about the same diameter of the plastic remaining in the hull, I used a small block of wood and hammer to gently drive out the fitting. I cleaned up the area, then sealed the inside with 3M 4200. I then put a nice bead of 4200 on the interiors of both new flanges...fit and positioned the outside piece first, then holding that piece in with my knee...I inserted the other side...pressed firmly to squeeze out the excess 4200 and cleaned the area up. Didn't take long at all. I think Sue charged me about $50 per scupper. Let me know if you have any other questions. Dave
labtoy	posted 09-18-2014 08:19 PM ET (US) Thanks for your reply, Dave, l ended up removing all 8 of my thru hull drains, cleaned them up and reinstalled with 4200. All were in good condition so l just cleaned them up. It's an easy job, l have a machine shop so l just made a couple knockout tools out of pvc bar and tapped them out from the inside of the boat. I bought a 17 justice last winter and have been refurbishing it since. Just water tested it a couple weeks ago and water was getting into the bilge compartment, so l figured it was from a thru hull but it turned out to be a broken water line from the motor going into the gage in the console. Send me an email if you would like to talk about our boats. dbpierce30@aol.com