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Author Topic:   Crunching sound from tilt trim system

picflight posted 10-14-2014 04:29 PM ET (US)
1998 Mercury 150HP power trip tilt
I was preoccupied and forgot to raise the outboard while I loaded the boat on to the trailer and began to pull away. I had move about 2' from the edge of the water and I noticed my blunder. At this point the skeg had carved a line in the asphalt and it was stuck, I could not raise the outboard or back the trailer back into the water.
I had someone assist me to raise the engine as I very slowly pulled forward. He mentioned that it took a while for the trim motor to engage as I was pulling forward and he advised I should have it checked out.
I lowered and raised the outboard several times and I noticed an uneven transition with a crunching sound from the trim to the tilt position. I am not sure if this was there before.
Is this crunching sound normal? If not what is causing it?
Who should be I be taking the boat to have it check and what should I check for?
What sort of potential damage could be caused by dragging the boat with the engine lowered as in this situation?
Video
http://youtu.be/7leiflE2D08
Pictures:
https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3956/15340971099_644db7c0a0_c.jpg
https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5607/15524711251_cc6e42c5a9_c.jpg
https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5603/15341220108_76a86c2199_c.jpg
jimh posted 10-14-2014 09:38 PM ET (US)
Have you greased the tilt tube lately? There are probably some grease fittings on the engine mount that will permit you to grease the tilt tube. (I am not familiar with your particular engine; most engines have several grease fittings.)
If the sound is not from some binding in the tilt tube, try to localize it.
kwik_wurk posted 10-15-2014 12:21 PM ET (US)
Never heard that sound, from my experience of working on Mercs. If you have air bubbles in the system, these will make little 'crunching' like noises, but these would work out. -- It sounds like a seal is damaged somewhere and being rolled over and binding in the unit.
I would look for hydraulic fluid, around the top of the cylinder bodies. I would also get the boat back in water and gradually run it in reverse until really moving, and see if the motor kicks up.
Most outboard trim tilt systems have a bypass that if a lower unit strike happens while at speed, the motor can kick up (to let the obstruction by). -- This takes a large amount of instantaneous force, considering the weight of engine and thrust of the prop. Dragging on a ramp likely won't engage this system and simply gradually load the seals until point of failure. --- The skeg was stuck likely because it was acting like a leg, and holding a vertical load due to the 1"-2" of rollback that occurs with the parking brake.
The fact that your motor is trim/tilting is a great sign. But that sound is not good.
picflight posted 10-15-2014 03:47 PM ET (US)
Hello @kwik_wurk,
If you notice in the video and my observation is that there is no unusual noises during the rest of the trim tilt cycle. So, I am thinking that the system is fully pressurized. Watch the video again and you will notice at one particular stage, when the trim rods being to decompress.
There no leaks from around the cylinders, see pictures below.
I will try to operate it this evening and try and isolate where the crunching or binding sound is coming from.
You are absolutely correct about the engine acting like a leg and being stuck.
I have a habit of engaging the emergency(hand brake) fully before letting off the foot on the brake, this avoids the transmission, drive in park, to not have extra pressure on it.
Having the emergency brake on, I think that the roll back was not as exaggerated.
Tilt Cylinder
https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5602/14923730854_b2bb247854_b.jpg
Trim cylinders
Starboard
https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5600/15358474177_e92b9a2eac_b.jpg
Port
https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5599/15545327592_915136ec47_b.jpg
rsantia posted 10-15-2014 08:27 PM ET (US)
I had a similar problem with my power trim actuator. I posted a description of the problem on this site in June 2011. The noise was due to the upper pin which connects the actuator rod to the engine was completely seized. The actuator rod eventually sheared right at the yoke, leaving the pin in the boss.
I would inspect the upper and lower bosses for corrosion and spray it with penetrating lubricant to ensure the pins are not binding or seized.
I should point out it was a different engine, but the noise and its occurrence was similar.

Ralph
rsantia posted 10-15-2014 08:48 PM ET (US)
Hello again,
The pictures you posted does show a crack on the actuator rod just below the upper pin as indicated by the arrow. Continued activation of the power trim is likely to severe the rod from the upper pin.
If this happens at the ramp and the rod binds it may prevent you from raising the engine. I would check this problem out before your next outing.
Ralph
picflight posted 10-16-2014 01:29 AM ET (US)
Thanks for the response Ralph.
The crack appearance is actually crud, I cleaned it.
https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5603/15342460988_43e2336de9_c.jpg
I will try lubricating the tilt ram rod where it connects to the upper swivel shaft.
kwik_wurk posted 10-16-2014 02:07 PM ET (US)
Continuing with rsantia's idea, could be the connector pin (horizontal piece) from the actuator to the engine got bent slightly and is now binding. Or it's associated locking pin is bent.
I played the video back with real speakers, and it is quite loud.
tom976 posted 10-16-2014 04:06 PM ET (US)
That sound doesn't sound the actual trim or tilt. You can systematically spray certain areas with wd40 and see if you can isolate it. Something sounds like it got twisted or broke to make that noise.
picflight posted 10-16-2014 10:48 PM ET (US)
Today I released the manual release screw a couple of counter clockwise turns, re-tightened.
Open the fluid filler cap, very clean red fluid was starting to overflow, closed it immediately.
Cleaned the unit.
Operated the tilt cycle several times until just the beginning of the trim cycle but not quite as far into the trim cycle as earlier. So I was not able to fully test if the manual release or air escape has any effect on the initial noise.
I had high ground under the skeg, so today it was not able to be lowered. I will hook up the trailer and pull it forward tomorrow and test again.
https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3937/15550766871_4421e4cfc1_b.jpg
Jefecinco posted 10-17-2014 08:58 AM ET (US)
Ar you unable to raise the transom sufficiently by lowering the trailer tongue with the jack?
picflight posted 10-17-2014 10:33 AM ET (US)
With the trailer tongue lowered all the way using the tongue jack, I get some clearance but the skeg still makes contact with the ground half way into the trim cycle. So, I am unable to get into the fully trimmed in state.
I have to hook up my tow vehicle to move the trailer forward because there is an obstruction under the engine where I park.
grosseile88 posted 10-22-2014 10:59 AM ET (US)

I had a 1998 Merc Optimax that exhibit same problem a couple times. Make sure the end of your tilt trim rods are properly lubricated. There is a big ball bearing at the end of each rod that needs to spin freely as it makes contact with your motor bracket. Sounds like yours are bound up and making that noise. Clean them so they are moving freely then put a dab of grease on them and roll them around with your fingers a bit. See if that solves your problem.
Good luck!

martyn1075 posted 10-23-2014 03:57 PM ET (US)
I'm a wondering if the rod is slightly bent or perhaps the cylinder is slightly off placement to the rod. The sound itself gives a hint that perhaps its being tightened into a spot that may be not designed to and in result you are getting this sound. It just sounds like a tight fit and the force of the hydraulic pump which really doesn't care it just uses force is simply doing what it is meant to do. Your correct and I noticed it just happens when the rod makes its way into the cylinder and not out but only when its under extreme force.
Martyn
Jeff posted 10-23-2014 04:53 PM ET (US)
I have had 2 or 3 Mercury's with this same noise affliction. Some times slavering grease on the outside of the motor's pivot bracket guides (green) and on the inside of the bracket (orange) has cured the problem.
Other times I have filed the tabs at the bottom of the motor's pivot bracket (in Green) to remove some paint and metal. The repainted the area.
In all cases my creaking was coming from the friction created as the two painted surfaces tried to slide past each other (Green and Orange Areas).
Color coded reference image...
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v427/jeff_rohlfing/Misc%20Whaler/ Untitled-1_zps022f5545.jpg
picflight posted 10-27-2014 12:43 PM ET (US)
A recap and good news.
I took the boat out over weekend, no noise in the tilt/trim system, operated flawlessly without a glitch.
I did the following before launch in efforts to work out the source of the noise.
I released the manual release screw a couple of counter clockwise turns, re-tightened.
Open the fluid filler cap, very clean red fluid was starting to overflow, closed it immediately.
Cleaned the unit.
Added a touch of marine grease on the balls at each trim shaft and trim shafts at the piston end.
kwik_wurk posted 10-27-2014 11:16 PM ET (US)
good, I hope for your sake it does not come back.
I would test the trim/tilt after everything drys out. If it returns, than you should be able to find your problem on the exterior rather quickly.
sosmerc posted 10-27-2014 11:39 PM ET (US)
Check the condition of your "striker plates". Most likely they are worn where the trim rod ends rest against them during the trim range. They can be replaced easily...or removed and cleaned up. This usually solves the issue of strange grinding noises during the up or down movement while in the trim range with the 3 ram trim systems.

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Author	Topic: Crunching sound from tilt trim system
picflight	posted 10-14-2014 04:29 PM ET (US) 1998 Mercury 150HP power trip tilt I was preoccupied and forgot to raise the outboard while I loaded the boat on to the trailer and began to pull away. I had move about 2' from the edge of the water and I noticed my blunder. At this point the skeg had carved a line in the asphalt and it was stuck, I could not raise the outboard or back the trailer back into the water. I had someone assist me to raise the engine as I very slowly pulled forward. He mentioned that it took a while for the trim motor to engage as I was pulling forward and he advised I should have it checked out. I lowered and raised the outboard several times and I noticed an uneven transition with a crunching sound from the trim to the tilt position. I am not sure if this was there before. Is this crunching sound normal? If not what is causing it? Who should be I be taking the boat to have it check and what should I check for? What sort of potential damage could be caused by dragging the boat with the engine lowered as in this situation? Video http://youtu.be/7leiflE2D08 Pictures: https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3956/15340971099_644db7c0a0_c.jpg https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5607/15524711251_cc6e42c5a9_c.jpg https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5603/15341220108_76a86c2199_c.jpg
jimh	posted 10-14-2014 09:38 PM ET (US) Have you greased the tilt tube lately? There are probably some grease fittings on the engine mount that will permit you to grease the tilt tube. (I am not familiar with your particular engine; most engines have several grease fittings.) If the sound is not from some binding in the tilt tube, try to localize it.
kwik_wurk	posted 10-15-2014 12:21 PM ET (US) Never heard that sound, from my experience of working on Mercs. If you have air bubbles in the system, these will make little 'crunching' like noises, but these would work out. -- It sounds like a seal is damaged somewhere and being rolled over and binding in the unit. I would look for hydraulic fluid, around the top of the cylinder bodies. I would also get the boat back in water and gradually run it in reverse until really moving, and see if the motor kicks up. Most outboard trim tilt systems have a bypass that if a lower unit strike happens while at speed, the motor can kick up (to let the obstruction by). -- This takes a large amount of instantaneous force, considering the weight of engine and thrust of the prop. Dragging on a ramp likely won't engage this system and simply gradually load the seals until point of failure. --- The skeg was stuck likely because it was acting like a leg, and holding a vertical load due to the 1"-2" of rollback that occurs with the parking brake. The fact that your motor is trim/tilting is a great sign. But that sound is not good.
picflight	posted 10-15-2014 03:47 PM ET (US) Hello @kwik_wurk, If you notice in the video and my observation is that there is no unusual noises during the rest of the trim tilt cycle. So, I am thinking that the system is fully pressurized. Watch the video again and you will notice at one particular stage, when the trim rods being to decompress. There no leaks from around the cylinders, see pictures below. I will try to operate it this evening and try and isolate where the crunching or binding sound is coming from. You are absolutely correct about the engine acting like a leg and being stuck. I have a habit of engaging the emergency(hand brake) fully before letting off the foot on the brake, this avoids the transmission, drive in park, to not have extra pressure on it. Having the emergency brake on, I think that the roll back was not as exaggerated. Tilt Cylinder https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5602/14923730854_b2bb247854_b.jpg Trim cylinders Starboard https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5600/15358474177_e92b9a2eac_b.jpg Port https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5599/15545327592_915136ec47_b.jpg
rsantia	posted 10-15-2014 08:27 PM ET (US) I had a similar problem with my power trim actuator. I posted a description of the problem on this site in June 2011. The noise was due to the upper pin which connects the actuator rod to the engine was completely seized. The actuator rod eventually sheared right at the yoke, leaving the pin in the boss. I would inspect the upper and lower bosses for corrosion and spray it with penetrating lubricant to ensure the pins are not binding or seized. I should point out it was a different engine, but the noise and its occurrence was similar. Ralph
rsantia	posted 10-15-2014 08:48 PM ET (US) Hello again, The pictures you posted does show a crack on the actuator rod just below the upper pin as indicated by the arrow. Continued activation of the power trim is likely to severe the rod from the upper pin. If this happens at the ramp and the rod binds it may prevent you from raising the engine. I would check this problem out before your next outing. Ralph
picflight	posted 10-16-2014 01:29 AM ET (US) Thanks for the response Ralph. The crack appearance is actually crud, I cleaned it. https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5603/15342460988_43e2336de9_c.jpg I will try lubricating the tilt ram rod where it connects to the upper swivel shaft.
kwik_wurk	posted 10-16-2014 02:07 PM ET (US) Continuing with rsantia's idea, could be the connector pin (horizontal piece) from the actuator to the engine got bent slightly and is now binding. Or it's associated locking pin is bent. I played the video back with real speakers, and it is quite loud.
tom976	posted 10-16-2014 04:06 PM ET (US) That sound doesn't sound the actual trim or tilt. You can systematically spray certain areas with wd40 and see if you can isolate it. Something sounds like it got twisted or broke to make that noise.
picflight	posted 10-16-2014 10:48 PM ET (US) Today I released the manual release screw a couple of counter clockwise turns, re-tightened. Open the fluid filler cap, very clean red fluid was starting to overflow, closed it immediately. Cleaned the unit. Operated the tilt cycle several times until just the beginning of the trim cycle but not quite as far into the trim cycle as earlier. So I was not able to fully test if the manual release or air escape has any effect on the initial noise. I had high ground under the skeg, so today it was not able to be lowered. I will hook up the trailer and pull it forward tomorrow and test again. https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3937/15550766871_4421e4cfc1_b.jpg
Jefecinco	posted 10-17-2014 08:58 AM ET (US) Ar you unable to raise the transom sufficiently by lowering the trailer tongue with the jack?
picflight	posted 10-17-2014 10:33 AM ET (US) With the trailer tongue lowered all the way using the tongue jack, I get some clearance but the skeg still makes contact with the ground half way into the trim cycle. So, I am unable to get into the fully trimmed in state. I have to hook up my tow vehicle to move the trailer forward because there is an obstruction under the engine where I park.
grosseile88	posted 10-22-2014 10:59 AM ET (US) I had a 1998 Merc Optimax that exhibit same problem a couple times. Make sure the end of your tilt trim rods are properly lubricated. There is a big ball bearing at the end of each rod that needs to spin freely as it makes contact with your motor bracket. Sounds like yours are bound up and making that noise. Clean them so they are moving freely then put a dab of grease on them and roll them around with your fingers a bit. See if that solves your problem. Good luck!
martyn1075	posted 10-23-2014 03:57 PM ET (US) I'm a wondering if the rod is slightly bent or perhaps the cylinder is slightly off placement to the rod. The sound itself gives a hint that perhaps its being tightened into a spot that may be not designed to and in result you are getting this sound. It just sounds like a tight fit and the force of the hydraulic pump which really doesn't care it just uses force is simply doing what it is meant to do. Your correct and I noticed it just happens when the rod makes its way into the cylinder and not out but only when its under extreme force. Martyn
Jeff	posted 10-23-2014 04:53 PM ET (US) I have had 2 or 3 Mercury's with this same noise affliction. Some times slavering grease on the outside of the motor's pivot bracket guides (green) and on the inside of the bracket (orange) has cured the problem. Other times I have filed the tabs at the bottom of the motor's pivot bracket (in Green) to remove some paint and metal. The repainted the area. In all cases my creaking was coming from the friction created as the two painted surfaces tried to slide past each other (Green and Orange Areas). Color coded reference image... http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v427/jeff_rohlfing/Misc%20Whaler/ Untitled-1_zps022f5545.jpg
picflight	posted 10-27-2014 12:43 PM ET (US) A recap and good news. I took the boat out over weekend, no noise in the tilt/trim system, operated flawlessly without a glitch. I did the following before launch in efforts to work out the source of the noise. I released the manual release screw a couple of counter clockwise turns, re-tightened. Open the fluid filler cap, very clean red fluid was starting to overflow, closed it immediately. Cleaned the unit. Added a touch of marine grease on the balls at each trim shaft and trim shafts at the piston end.
kwik_wurk	posted 10-27-2014 11:16 PM ET (US) good, I hope for your sake it does not come back. I would test the trim/tilt after everything drys out. If it returns, than you should be able to find your problem on the exterior rather quickly.
sosmerc	posted 10-27-2014 11:39 PM ET (US) Check the condition of your "striker plates". Most likely they are worn where the trim rod ends rest against them during the trim range. They can be replaced easily...or removed and cleaned up. This usually solves the issue of strange grinding noises during the up or down movement while in the trim range with the 3 ram trim systems.