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Author Topic:   E-TEC 90 Temperature Sensor

katpil posted 11-04-2014 09:20 PM ET (US)
I just repowered my Montauk with a [gave a model year but Evinrude no longer uses model years] E-TEC 90. My old engine was a 2001 Johnson 90, and I had several analog instruments on the console, including a power head temperature gauge. I had planned to keep using them since I dont want to buy new gauges. Unfortunately the temp sending unit from the old Johnson wont fit the new Evinrude. Has anyone found a replacement sending unit that'll fit the new engine for use with the analog gauge? A local dealer recommended p/n 174675, but the thread dia is too big. Any information appreciated.
jimh posted 11-04-2014 11:09 PM ET (US)
I moved the temperature sender from my 1992 Evinrude V6 to my 2010 Evinrude E-TEC; the sensor fit both engines.
The best way to find part numbers for Evinrude parts is on their fantastic website
SHOP.EVINRUDE.COM
What is the model designator your engine. It is no longer a year but an two letter designator, something like AA, AB, AC, etc. Also, do you have the in-line three cylinder or the V4 engine?
The sensor has to match to the gauge, of course, too. If there is not a threaded boss on the power head for the existing sensor to thread into, perhaps a stand-off mounting bracket is used on that engine. A good Evinrude E-TEC dealer should be able to clear this up.
katpil posted 11-05-2014 12:06 PM ET (US)
Three cylinder 90, FA designator.
I've been to two ETEC dealers so far, no solution yet. Also been to the Evinrude site you mention and for engine parts I only see temp sensors related to the EMM. And spoke with BRP tech support, no help. Nothing for an analog gauge.
When I look at the temp gauge kits the p/n I bought (174675) is the only choice and it doesnt fit the threads on the boss on the engine head (starboard side, high up on side of head assy). I'm considering getting a small amount of thermal conductive epoxy and using it to hold the sensor in the boss hole. Obviously would prefer a sending unit made to fit, but that may end up being my only choice other than buying [NMEA-2000 networking based] gauges. Will also try another dealer.
jimh posted 11-05-2014 11:06 PM ET (US)
Do you mean the model designator is "AF"? Try posting an inquiry here:
http://www.etecownersgroup.com/?forum=136483
katpil posted 11-06-2014 10:36 AM ET (US)
Yes, "AF".....in fact Joe did the installation and came up with a wrong p/n too. I will try that site tho....thx.
saumon posted 11-06-2014 12:56 PM ET (US)
BRP #174675 sender is threaded for 1/8" NPT.
Here's a pic fron the starboard top side of my 2005 E90DSLSOC E-TEC: http://www.myfishingpictures.com/data/500/20141106_121828.jpg
There's 2 locations where you could instal it, one being 5/16" ant the other 3/8".
You'll simply need a suitable adaptor like this one: http://www.siliconeintakes.com/liquid-air-adapter/ 1_8%22-27-npt-male-to-5_16%22-32-npt-female-adaptor-p-1229.html (search for "1/8 to 5/16 adaptor" or "1/8 to 3/8 adapter").
saumon posted 11-06-2014 01:10 PM ET (US)
BTW, that's what Faria Instruments recommend (using a bushing/adaptor) with their analog temperature kit, which also come with a 1/8" NPT threaded sender.
jimh posted 11-06-2014 01:42 PM ET (US)
Saumon--thanks for the great contribution. I want to thank you for that and for all the other great advice you provide.
katpil posted 11-06-2014 02:31 PM ET (US)
Saumon--thanks for the pictures and links. BRP has seemed to made some changes to the the 90, at least for the current model year. Take a look at this photo:
http://tinyurl.com/q2sswfn
I believe I'm limited to using the boss just above the fuel filter. My analog water [pressure] gauge uses the tap high on the block and the other [temperature sensor] boss is now used by what appears to be a sensor that feeds the EMM.
I believe you are correct that the PN174675 sending unit is 1/8, 27 TPI, NPT thread. But, [it is] too big to fit in the threaded hole in the boss just above the fuel filter. So I'm thinking to either use a good thermal conductive epoxy to hold the sensor in the unthreaded hole (which it will fit in) or get a 1/8-NPT tap and carefully thread the hole. I'm leaning toward using the tap as it should provide the best solution for sending unit-to-block metal-to-metal contact for thermal conductivity.
saumon posted 11-06-2014 02:55 PM ET (US)
katpil--if the sender is 1/8-inch, how can it be too big for that hole? The threaded one right above the fuel flter is 5/16-inch x 24TPI. Or is the sender 3/8-inch?
katpil posted 11-06-2014 03:15 PM ET (US)
The sender maximum thread diameter is about 3/8-inch, at least [that is] the best I can tell from my ruler. I [cannot] even get the non-threaded part of the sending unit into that threaded hole on my engine. Perhaps the threaded boss hole is a smaller diameter now.
saumon posted 11-06-2014 03:42 PM ET (US)
Then I'd also do like you plan, and enlarge and re-tap that threaded hole. Just make sure to get the exact diameter and thread-count of the sending unit first.
katpil posted 11-06-2014 04:01 PM ET (US)
Maybe the confusion on sizes is that NPT sizes dont relate to physical dimensions. A 1/8-NPT threaded piece has a [specified outside diameter] of 0.405-inch, whereas a 5/16-inch hole is just that, 5/16-inch in diameter. I'm no expert on NPT sizes, but that is what I'm reading on the web. Am I correct on that?
katpil posted 11-06-2014 04:23 PM ET (US)
I am using this table as a guide:
http://www.engineersedge.com/hardware/taper-pipe-threads.htm
saumon posted 11-06-2014 04:24 PM ET (US)
You're right. I take 1/8-NPT for plain 1/8-inch, my mistake. Simply get a 1/8-NPT tap and enlarge it.
jimh posted 11-07-2014 03:11 AM ET (US)
I believe the confusion with dimensions of pipe results because pipe is measured for its inside diameter, not the outside diameter of the pipe walls.
jimh posted 11-09-2014 09:13 AM ET (US)
One of the threaded holes on the engine block that was too small to accommodate the temperature sensor could be used as an attachment point for a bracket. The bracket could be shaped to hold the temperature sensor in contact with the engine block. It there were two hole that are closely spaced--and I think that is the case--with one hole threaded already and the other not threaded, perhaps the threaded hole could be used to attach a bracket (to be fashioned by the installer) so the temperature sensor could be held in place in the other hole.
It seems that with the E-TEC 90-HP engine you are going to have to improvise a solution for accommodating a second sensor for engine temperature to drive your dedicated analog engine temperature gauge. As mentioned, the E-TEC engine has already installed a good temperature sensor, and that sensor is providing engine temperature data to the engine management module (EMM). The temperature data is also being recorded and analyzed into a temperature histogram which can be exported from the engine via a serial data diagnostic cable as part of an engine history report. The engine temperature is also being sent on the engine's modern electronic instrumentation interface (NMEA-2000). There is plenty of data on engine temperature provided, but, in this case, where a dedicated analogue temperature gauge is desired in addition, the fitting of the sensor must be a bit improvised. There is also an option to find a sensor that can fit into one of the existing threaded bosses, but it would also have to match its electrical output to the existing gauge calibration that is planned to be re-used.
katpil posted 11-10-2014 04:48 PM ET (US)
The analog temp sending unit is a no-go. Interestingly, the sending unit would protrude about 1-inch from the boss I was going to install it in. I found that the engine cover would not fit with the sending unit in place. There's a plastic inner liner on the inside of the engine cover, and I'd have to cut part of it off to get it to fit. I am not going to mess like that with a new engine. What should I fill the water temperature gauge hole with? A tilt/trim indicator? Already have a tachometer, voltmeter, water pressure gauge, and hour meter.
jimh posted 11-11-2014 08:36 AM ET (US)
I have always found a trim gauge to be useful.
If you add a conventional trim gauge, the circuit of the trim gauge will provide current to the trim sender on the engine. You must check the wiring harness for the E-TEC you are using to see if it is trying to also provide current to the trim sender. Only one current source should be connected to the trim sender.
If you decide to add a trim gauge, start a new thread. I will give you some further guidance. You should also read my article on the topic of trim senders and the E-TEC in the REFERENCE section:
http://continuouswave.com/whaler/reference/ETEC_RiggingAdvanced. html#TRIM :

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Author	Topic: E-TEC 90 Temperature Sensor
katpil	posted 11-04-2014 09:20 PM ET (US) I just repowered my Montauk with a [gave a model year but Evinrude no longer uses model years] E-TEC 90. My old engine was a 2001 Johnson 90, and I had several analog instruments on the console, including a power head temperature gauge. I had planned to keep using them since I dont want to buy new gauges. Unfortunately the temp sending unit from the old Johnson wont fit the new Evinrude. Has anyone found a replacement sending unit that'll fit the new engine for use with the analog gauge? A local dealer recommended p/n 174675, but the thread dia is too big. Any information appreciated.
jimh	posted 11-04-2014 11:09 PM ET (US) I moved the temperature sender from my 1992 Evinrude V6 to my 2010 Evinrude E-TEC; the sensor fit both engines. The best way to find part numbers for Evinrude parts is on their fantastic website SHOP.EVINRUDE.COM What is the model designator your engine. It is no longer a year but an two letter designator, something like AA, AB, AC, etc. Also, do you have the in-line three cylinder or the V4 engine? The sensor has to match to the gauge, of course, too. If there is not a threaded boss on the power head for the existing sensor to thread into, perhaps a stand-off mounting bracket is used on that engine. A good Evinrude E-TEC dealer should be able to clear this up.
katpil	posted 11-05-2014 12:06 PM ET (US) Three cylinder 90, FA designator. I've been to two ETEC dealers so far, no solution yet. Also been to the Evinrude site you mention and for engine parts I only see temp sensors related to the EMM. And spoke with BRP tech support, no help. Nothing for an analog gauge. When I look at the temp gauge kits the p/n I bought (174675) is the only choice and it doesnt fit the threads on the boss on the engine head (starboard side, high up on side of head assy). I'm considering getting a small amount of thermal conductive epoxy and using it to hold the sensor in the boss hole. Obviously would prefer a sending unit made to fit, but that may end up being my only choice other than buying [NMEA-2000 networking based] gauges. Will also try another dealer.
jimh	posted 11-05-2014 11:06 PM ET (US) Do you mean the model designator is "AF"? Try posting an inquiry here: http://www.etecownersgroup.com/?forum=136483
katpil	posted 11-06-2014 10:36 AM ET (US) Yes, "AF".....in fact Joe did the installation and came up with a wrong p/n too. I will try that site tho....thx.
saumon	posted 11-06-2014 12:56 PM ET (US) BRP #174675 sender is threaded for 1/8" NPT. Here's a pic fron the starboard top side of my 2005 E90DSLSOC E-TEC: http://www.myfishingpictures.com/data/500/20141106_121828.jpg There's 2 locations where you could instal it, one being 5/16" ant the other 3/8". You'll simply need a suitable adaptor like this one: http://www.siliconeintakes.com/liquid-air-adapter/ 1_8%22-27-npt-male-to-5_16%22-32-npt-female-adaptor-p-1229.html (search for "1/8 to 5/16 adaptor" or "1/8 to 3/8 adapter").
saumon	posted 11-06-2014 01:10 PM ET (US) BTW, that's what Faria Instruments recommend (using a bushing/adaptor) with their analog temperature kit, which also come with a 1/8" NPT threaded sender.
jimh	posted 11-06-2014 01:42 PM ET (US) Saumon--thanks for the great contribution. I want to thank you for that and for all the other great advice you provide.
katpil	posted 11-06-2014 02:31 PM ET (US) Saumon--thanks for the pictures and links. BRP has seemed to made some changes to the the 90, at least for the current model year. Take a look at this photo: http://tinyurl.com/q2sswfn I believe I'm limited to using the boss just above the fuel filter. My analog water [pressure] gauge uses the tap high on the block and the other [temperature sensor] boss is now used by what appears to be a sensor that feeds the EMM. I believe you are correct that the PN174675 sending unit is 1/8, 27 TPI, NPT thread. But, [it is] too big to fit in the threaded hole in the boss just above the fuel filter. So I'm thinking to either use a good thermal conductive epoxy to hold the sensor in the unthreaded hole (which it will fit in) or get a 1/8-NPT tap and carefully thread the hole. I'm leaning toward using the tap as it should provide the best solution for sending unit-to-block metal-to-metal contact for thermal conductivity.
saumon	posted 11-06-2014 02:55 PM ET (US) katpil--if the sender is 1/8-inch, how can it be too big for that hole? The threaded one right above the fuel flter is 5/16-inch x 24TPI. Or is the sender 3/8-inch?
katpil	posted 11-06-2014 03:15 PM ET (US) The sender maximum thread diameter is about 3/8-inch, at least [that is] the best I can tell from my ruler. I [cannot] even get the non-threaded part of the sending unit into that threaded hole on my engine. Perhaps the threaded boss hole is a smaller diameter now.
saumon	posted 11-06-2014 03:42 PM ET (US) Then I'd also do like you plan, and enlarge and re-tap that threaded hole. Just make sure to get the exact diameter and thread-count of the sending unit first.
katpil	posted 11-06-2014 04:01 PM ET (US) Maybe the confusion on sizes is that NPT sizes dont relate to physical dimensions. A 1/8-NPT threaded piece has a [specified outside diameter] of 0.405-inch, whereas a 5/16-inch hole is just that, 5/16-inch in diameter. I'm no expert on NPT sizes, but that is what I'm reading on the web. Am I correct on that?
katpil	posted 11-06-2014 04:23 PM ET (US) I am using this table as a guide: http://www.engineersedge.com/hardware/taper-pipe-threads.htm
saumon	posted 11-06-2014 04:24 PM ET (US) You're right. I take 1/8-NPT for plain 1/8-inch, my mistake. Simply get a 1/8-NPT tap and enlarge it.
jimh	posted 11-07-2014 03:11 AM ET (US) I believe the confusion with dimensions of pipe results because pipe is measured for its inside diameter, not the outside diameter of the pipe walls.
jimh	posted 11-09-2014 09:13 AM ET (US) One of the threaded holes on the engine block that was too small to accommodate the temperature sensor could be used as an attachment point for a bracket. The bracket could be shaped to hold the temperature sensor in contact with the engine block. It there were two hole that are closely spaced--and I think that is the case--with one hole threaded already and the other not threaded, perhaps the threaded hole could be used to attach a bracket (to be fashioned by the installer) so the temperature sensor could be held in place in the other hole. It seems that with the E-TEC 90-HP engine you are going to have to improvise a solution for accommodating a second sensor for engine temperature to drive your dedicated analog engine temperature gauge. As mentioned, the E-TEC engine has already installed a good temperature sensor, and that sensor is providing engine temperature data to the engine management module (EMM). The temperature data is also being recorded and analyzed into a temperature histogram which can be exported from the engine via a serial data diagnostic cable as part of an engine history report. The engine temperature is also being sent on the engine's modern electronic instrumentation interface (NMEA-2000). There is plenty of data on engine temperature provided, but, in this case, where a dedicated analogue temperature gauge is desired in addition, the fitting of the sensor must be a bit improvised. There is also an option to find a sensor that can fit into one of the existing threaded bosses, but it would also have to match its electrical output to the existing gauge calibration that is planned to be re-used.
katpil	posted 11-10-2014 04:48 PM ET (US) The analog temp sending unit is a no-go. Interestingly, the sending unit would protrude about 1-inch from the boss I was going to install it in. I found that the engine cover would not fit with the sending unit in place. There's a plastic inner liner on the inside of the engine cover, and I'd have to cut part of it off to get it to fit. I am not going to mess like that with a new engine. What should I fill the water temperature gauge hole with? A tilt/trim indicator? Already have a tachometer, voltmeter, water pressure gauge, and hour meter.
jimh	posted 11-11-2014 08:36 AM ET (US) I have always found a trim gauge to be useful. If you add a conventional trim gauge, the circuit of the trim gauge will provide current to the trim sender on the engine. You must check the wiring harness for the E-TEC you are using to see if it is trying to also provide current to the trim sender. Only one current source should be connected to the trim sender. If you decide to add a trim gauge, start a new thread. I will give you some further guidance. You should also read my article on the topic of trim senders and the E-TEC in the REFERENCE section: http://continuouswave.com/whaler/reference/ETEC_RiggingAdvanced. html#TRIM :